DUST Search - Only chnage I'd make to scouts.

Varoth Drac wrote:

Two problems with your suggestion.

Firstly scouts wouldn't be able to hide from everything as currently my max skill proto scout needs to fill all low slots with dampeners and activate a proto cloak to avoid all scans. Personally I wouldn't have a problem with not being able to avoid focused scanners on Gal logis, but many people do have a problem with this. I'm more worried about the other scanner varients and Amarr scouts, which currently I have to sacrifice enough to avoid, and would be useless if I didn't. Even Gal scouts in pub matches force me to use a dampener on all my scout fits, not just proto, so I don't think it would be very fair, or a good idea to mess with this.

Secondly, by placing more importance on fitting dampeners you unfairly favour scouts with more low slots. This is because so many useful scout modules are in lows that can't be used if all low slots are dampeners.

There is already talk of nerfing scanning whilst cloaked and increasing decloak delay.

Personally I think if scouts need more nerfing CCP should go after the tank modules on scouts. Add scout only penalties for fitting hp mods, like extra speed reduction for plates and extra shield recharge delay for shield extenders. The goal being to prevent scouts stacking tank mods. The way the game works now encourages hp mods on scouts. By this I mean the fact that hp isn't a percentage bonus, coupled with scouts small hit box, good speed and regen. You get much more benefit adding 66 shield to a scout than to an assault.

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Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 1975	Posted - 2014.10.22 06:45:00 - [1] - Quote Increase profile from 35dB to 40dB. That's it. Proto scouts can still hide from everybody, but they must now sacrifice more in order to do it. No cloak nerf, speed nerf, sidearms only nerf... just 5dB increase to profile. Mercs whine about the rail rifle but refuse to shield tank to counter it. But that's none of my business.
Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command 790	Posted - 2014.10.22 07:22:00 - [2] - Quote The only change I would make is reduce scan range from 20 to 15 (pre-1.8 value). I strongly believe the core issue we have with Scouts is the native wall-hack. I like that it exists, I just think the range is too long. Reducing range gives everyone else more of a chance to catch a Scout in a disadvantageous position. My feeling is that as long as I have a long-range wall-hack I can run around with a sidearm only, 100 dB profile and 100 total hp and still come out on top.
Varoth Drac Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 298	Posted - 2014.10.22 07:29:00 - [3] - Quote Two problems with your suggestion. Firstly scouts wouldn't be able to hide from everything as currently my max skill proto scout needs to fill all low slots with dampeners and activate a proto cloak to avoid all scans. Personally I wouldn't have a problem with not being able to avoid focused scanners on Gal logis, but many people do have a problem with this. I'm more worried about the other scanner varients and Amarr scouts, which currently I have to sacrifice enough to avoid, and would be useless if I didn't. Even Gal scouts in pub matches force me to use a dampener on all my scout fits, not just proto, so I don't think it would be very fair, or a good idea to mess with this. Secondly, by placing more importance on fitting dampeners you unfairly favour scouts with more low slots. This is because so many useful scout modules are in lows that can't be used if all low slots are dampeners. There is already talk of nerfing scanning whilst cloaked and increasing decloak delay. Personally I think if scouts need more nerfing CCP should go after the tank modules on scouts. Add scout only penalties for fitting hp mods, like extra speed reduction for plates and extra shield recharge delay for shield extenders. The goal being to prevent scouts stacking tank mods. The way the game works now encourages hp mods on scouts. By this I mean the fact that hp isn't a percentage bonus, coupled with scouts small hit box, good speed and regen. You get much more benefit adding 66 shield to a scout than to an assault.
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 155	Posted - 2014.10.22 07:33:00 - [4] - Quote There are so many more factors then you would be addressing. Assault cloak for one which is the largest of the issues which is being addressed with a cloak nerf and (then probably another cloak nerf) thanks to the player bases don't nerf me bro. I don't use the cloak and only use sidearms so the changes wouldn't/will not effect me in any way, but I am positive that side arms only would address assault scouts 100% and in turn all scouts would fit things to benefit the scout class while leaving the play style in full effect. Now you guys are looking at a nerf that will have a great effect on that play style... good job dimwits. New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
The Master Race Immortal Guides 155	Posted - 2014.10.22 07:33:00 - [5] - Quote There are so many more factors then you would be addressing. Assault cloak for one which is the largest of the issues which is being addressed with a cloak nerf and (then probably another cloak nerf) thanks to the player bases don't nerf me bro. I don't use the cloak and only use sidearms so the changes wouldn't/will not effect me in any way, but I am positive that side arms only would address assault scouts 100% and in turn all scouts would fit things to benefit the scout class while leaving the play style in full effect. Now you guys are looking at a nerfs that threaten that play style... good job dimwits. New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 1978	Posted - 2014.10.22 07:55:00 - [6] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: Two problems with your suggestion. Firstly scouts wouldn't be able to hide from everything as currently my max skill proto scout needs to fill all low slots with dampeners and activate a proto cloak to avoid all scans. Personally I wouldn't have a problem with not being able to avoid focused scanners on Gal logis, but many people do have a problem with this. I'm more worried about the other scanner varients and Amarr scouts, which currently I have to sacrifice enough to avoid, and would be useless if I didn't. Even Gal scouts in pub matches force me to use a dampener on all my scout fits, not just proto, so I don't think it would be very fair, or a good idea to mess with this. Secondly, by placing more importance on fitting dampeners you unfairly favour scouts with more low slots. This is because so many useful scout modules are in lows that can't be used if all low slots are dampeners. There is already talk of nerfing scanning whilst cloaked and increasing decloak delay. Personally I think if scouts need more nerfing CCP should go after the tank modules on scouts. Add scout only penalties for fitting hp mods, like extra speed reduction for plates and extra shield recharge delay for shield extenders. The goal being to prevent scouts stacking tank mods. The way the game works now encourages hp mods on scouts. By this I mean the fact that hp isn't a percentage bonus, coupled with scouts small hit box, good speed and regen. You get much more benefit adding 66 shield to a scout than to an assault. Currently Gallente or Caldari scouts can get under all but GalLogi 5 Duvolle focused scanner with 2 damps. Profile: 15.72dB GalLogi 5 Duvolle Focused: 15dB This is far too easy, especially in the case of Gallente who then has two more low slots to fiddle with, plus the cloak dampening which makes it completely unscannable. This is too much. Completely unscannable fits should be completely dedicated to that. There is simply too much wiggle room for a fit that cannot be found at all. Dampening should win out over scanning, but it should be neck and neck the entire way. A 40dB profile means a GalScout must use 3 damps and a cloak to become completely unscannable. This is fair, because you are now paperthin. This is the tradeoff. You are either tankier and scannable, or unscannable and paper. GalScout with 2 damps. Note the profile. Mercs whine about the rail rifle but refuse to shield tank to counter it. But that's none of my business.
Varoth Drac Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 298	Posted - 2014.10.22 08:41:00 - [7] - Quote Profile and precision are rounded to the nearest whole number, ties go to the scanner. So your example scouts would both be scanned and would need to activate a cloak (adv or pro) to avoid scans. Cal scouts only have 2 low slots, both used. Minmatar scouts would need 3 damps and a pro cloak, they only have 3 low slots. This is how things stand now.
Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 1979	Posted - 2014.10.22 09:02:00 - [8] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: Profile and precision are rounded to the nearest whole number, ties go to the scanner. So your example scouts would both be scanned and would need to activate a cloak (adv or pro) to avoid scans. Cal scouts only have 2 low slots, both used. Minmatar scouts would need 3 damps and a pro cloak, they only have 3 low slots. This is how things stand now. And that's how it should be. The very best active scanner should only be beaten by the very best dampened scout. Let us also have the best possible active scans which top out at 17.85dB. Again, Gallente And Caldari scouts get under this with ease, and don't even need a cloak to do so. A scout suit should have to sacrifice a lot in order to avoid all scans. Just as a suit should have to sacrifice in order to pick up all scouts (passively, at least) Especially when currently they can get under the best possible scanner ever (GalLogi 5 Duvolle Focused scanner) It should definitely be possible for GalScout to get under the best scanner, but even with a 40dB profile, all it takes is 2 damps and a cloak to get under the best passive scans. I don't mind scouts being unscannable. I do mind scouts being unscannable with minimal sacrifice compared to the scanner and being able to tank like a medium. Giving the precision bonus to Caldari would also be a solution I can get behind, but in any case it should take more than 2 damps and a cloak to get under the best scanner in the game. All this does is require scouts to fit one more damp. That's all. Mercs whine about the rail rifle but refuse to shield tank to counter it. But that's none of my business.
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game RUST415 569	Posted - 2014.10.22 13:31:00 - [9] - Quote They shouldn't have multiple equip slots either... Might as well throw them 2 light weapons so they can be a CommandoLogiScout Hybrid.
The Master Race Immortal Guides 155	Posted - 2014.10.22 13:48:00 - [10] - Quote I approve of the two slots I mean stealth and uplinks are meant to be the primary attributes allowing your team ambush or flank. Having a light weapons slot turns them into an OP assault class that the try hards take full advantage of. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMlsSecuzE8 New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.

Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 155	Posted - 2014.10.22 13:48:00 - [11] - Quote I approve of the two slots I mean stealth and uplinks are meant to be the primary attributes allowing your team ambush or flank. Having a light weapons slot turns them into an OP assault class that the try-hards take full advantage of. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMlsSecuzE8 New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game RUST415 569	Posted - 2014.10.22 14:22:00 - [12] - Quote Blueprint For Murder wrote: I approve of the two slots I mean stealth and uplinks are meant to be the primary attributes allowing your team ambush or flank. Having a light weapons slot turns them into an OP assault class that the try-hards take full advantage of. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMlsSecuzE8 My thinking would be scouts are for either recon/stealth... If you want to sprint with uplinks you should lose the invisibility or scans... To me a Logi should be the primary uplink distributor, where you fit a variety of equipment sets for healing &/or team support. removing the light weapon may be a viable alternative, but it doesn't stop them being superfast, small hitbox Logi's.
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 155	Posted - 2014.10.22 14:33:00 - [13] - Quote Logis I think are more of a set up a base kind of thing you are not going to put hives, uplinks, and repair stuff on your ambush point or even if you are it will be a logi that spawns in to do it. As for the scans I think when the scout was first theory crafted it was believed they would be at a disadvantage because of the low hp which they are not the reason side arms only would fit. New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
Lloyd Orfay Commando Perkone Caldari State 85	Posted - 2014.10.23 01:02:00 - [14] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: Increase profile from 35dB to 40dB. That's it. Proto scouts can still hide from everybody, but they must now sacrifice more in order to do it. No cloak nerf, speed nerf, sidearms only nerf... just 5dB increase to profile. So you don't want to change the fact that scouts follow sandbox gameplay that makes them ruin most aspects of gameplay on a daily basis in a game with team-based functions? Interesting, my essay on decadence of standards was way more accurate than I thought. Antisocial players don't deserve their solo gameplay.
Zindorak G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 1132	Posted - 2014.10.23 01:41:00 - [15] - Quote Im ok with using a maximum of 3 complex damps to hide from everything on my gal scout. Anything over that is overkill Pokemon master and Tekken Lord Gk0 Scout yay :) Pls fix SCR CCP
Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 1986	Posted - 2014.10.23 01:52:00 - [16] - Quote Zindorak wrote: Im ok with using a maximum of 3 complex damps to hide from everything on my gal scout. Anything over that is overkill 3 complex camps plus cloak to hide from everything. Mercs whine about the rail rifle but refuse to shield tank to counter it. But that's none of my business.
FIRSTNAME- lastname Direct Action Resources 9	Posted - 2014.10.23 02:21:00 - [17] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: Profile and precision are rounded to the nearest whole number, ties go to the scanner. So your example scouts would both be scanned and would need to activate a cloak (adv or pro) to avoid scans. Cal scouts only have 2 low slots, both used. Minmatar scouts would need 3 damps and a pro cloak, they only have 3 low slots. This is how things stand now. Haha so high... gallente only needs two damps advanced hahaha C15-A Sniper Rifle... Im Coming for you!
Varoth Drac Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 301	Posted - 2014.10.23 07:20:00 - [18] - Quote FIRSTNAME- lastname wrote: Varoth Drac wrote: Profile and precision are rounded to the nearest whole number, ties go to the scanner. So your example scouts would both be scanned and would need to activate a cloak (adv or pro) to avoid scans. Cal scouts only have 2 low slots, both used. Minmatar scouts would need 3 damps and a pro cloak, they only have 3 low slots. This is how things stand now. Haha so high... gallente only needs two damps advanced hahaha Sorry, got that wrong. A Gallente scout needs 2 complex dampeners, an active proto cloak, and Gallente scout lvl5 to avoid all scans. Low profile is their speciality.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3854	Posted - 2014.10.23 10:11:00 - [19] - Quote The solution to scouts is not increasing profile because permascan Reducing passive scanner utility is idiotic in concept. My d*ck is longer than most dropsuit scanning ranges. It's pathetic to begin with. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
FIRSTNAME- lastname Direct Action Resources 9	Posted - 2014.10.23 21:44:00 - [20] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: FIRSTNAME- lastname wrote: Varoth Drac wrote: Profile and precision are rounded to the nearest whole number, ties go to the scanner. So your example scouts would both be scanned and would need to activate a cloak (adv or pro) to avoid scans. Cal scouts only have 2 low slots, both used. Minmatar scouts would need 3 damps and a pro cloak, they only have 3 low slots. This is how things stand now. Haha so high... gallente only needs two damps advanced hahaha Sorry, got that wrong. A Gallente scout needs 2 complex dampeners, an active proto cloak, and Gallente scout lvl5 to avoid all scans. Low profile is their speciality. When I said so high I meant I was sorry lol. C15-A Sniper Rifle... Im Coming for you!

FIRSTNAME- lastname Direct Action Resources 9	Posted - 2014.10.23 21:48:00 - [21] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: FIRSTNAME- lastname wrote: Varoth Drac wrote: Profile and precision are rounded to the nearest whole number, ties go to the scanner. So your example scouts would both be scanned and would need to activate a cloak (adv or pro) to avoid scans. Cal scouts only have 2 low slots, both used. Minmatar scouts would need 3 damps and a pro cloak, they only have 3 low slots. This is how things stand now. Haha so high... gallente only needs two damps advanced hahaha Sorry, got that wrong. A Gallente scout needs 2 complex dampeners, an active proto cloak, and Gallente scout lvl5 to avoid all scans. Low profile is their speciality. Oh and I only need 2 advanced profile damps for 85% of scans that appear C15-A Sniper Rifle... Im Coming for you!
Ahkhomi Cypher Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 274	Posted - 2014.10.23 21:58:00 - [22] - Quote Make the uncloak to shot delay 5 seconds. With max cloak skills it drops to 2-3 seconds. Thats what i would do. Opus Arcana \| TBD Ringleader Hi
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 18402	Posted - 2014.10.23 23:13:00 - [23] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: Two problems with your suggestion. Firstly scouts wouldn't be able to hide from everything I do not see this as a problem. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. GM Scotsman is my hero.
Zindorak G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 1138	Posted - 2014.10.24 00:40:00 - [24] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: Zindorak wrote: Im ok with using a maximum of 3 complex damps to hide from everything on my gal scout. Anything over that is overkill 3 complex camps plus cloak to hide from everything. Im good with that plus ADV cloak Pokemon master and Tekken Lord Gk0 Scout yay :) Pls fix SCR CCP
Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 1988	Posted - 2014.10.24 00:48:00 - [25] - Quote Zindorak wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: Zindorak wrote: Im ok with using a maximum of 3 complex damps to hide from everything on my gal scout. Anything over that is overkill 3 complex camps plus cloak to hide from everything. Im good with that plus ADV cloak Which is what I'm shooting for. Unscannable isn't the issue, its assault level tank and unscannable. Mercs whine about the rail rifle but refuse to shield tank to counter it. But that's none of my business.
Thokk Nightshade KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND 608	Posted - 2014.10.24 02:24:00 - [26] - Quote Here is another thought on the "tanked" scouts. I've been thinking about this for a couple of days trying to think up counter arguments and couldn't other than ones that would rise from the invisi-tanks. Why can't there be something put in place where if a scout suit goes over "x" HP, he gains 5 db on his scan profile? Then for every 100 HP (or 50, however you want to break it down) past that, he gains another 5db. This would mean they can get themselves down to unscannable levels, but if they want to tank they will give all of it back, making it pointless. If a scout wants to tank, go for it, but you are losing your invisibility to do so. This would be the ultimate eradicator of the invisible + tanking scout because it would be built into the scout suits to be impossible to do so. Thokk Kill. Thokk Crush. Thokk Smash.
Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 1992	Posted - 2014.10.24 02:38:00 - [27] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: FIRSTNAME- lastname wrote: Varoth Drac wrote: Profile and precision are rounded to the nearest whole number, ties go to the scanner. So your example scouts would both be scanned and would need to activate a cloak (adv or pro) to avoid scans. Cal scouts only have 2 low slots, both used. Minmatar scouts would need 3 damps and a pro cloak, they only have 3 low slots. This is how things stand now. Haha so high... gallente only needs two damps advanced hahaha Sorry, got that wrong. A Gallente scout needs 2 complex dampeners, an active proto cloak, and Gallente scout lvl5 to avoid all scans. Low profile is their speciality. But again, being unable to be found is a huge reason for scout proliferation. 40dB profile is a very small change, especially since things like sidearm only are also on the table. I want scouts to be hard to find, but being impossible to find should take dedication. Mercs whine about the rail rifle but refuse to shield tank to counter it. But that's none of my business.
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 165	Posted - 2014.10.24 02:58:00 - [28] - Quote Someone suggested an rng roll for discovery I don't know if it is possible, but I am sure every one thinks its a good idea. I still think the light slot needs removed though so they are not overtaking other suits primary and in some cases only roles. The miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.Wizard Talk


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