DUST Search - Only chnage I'd make to scouts.

Varoth Drac wrote:

Two problems with your suggestion.

Firstly scouts wouldn't be able to hide from everything as currently my max skill proto scout needs to fill all low slots with dampeners and activate a proto cloak to avoid all scans. Personally I wouldn't have a problem with not being able to avoid focused scanners on Gal logis, but many people do have a problem with this. I'm more worried about the other scanner varients and Amarr scouts, which currently I have to sacrifice enough to avoid, and would be useless if I didn't. Even Gal scouts in pub matches force me to use a dampener on all my scout fits, not just proto, so I don't think it would be very fair, or a good idea to mess with this.

Secondly, by placing more importance on fitting dampeners you unfairly favour scouts with more low slots. This is because so many useful scout modules are in lows that can't be used if all low slots are dampeners.

There is already talk of nerfing scanning whilst cloaked and increasing decloak delay.

Personally I think if scouts need more nerfing CCP should go after the tank modules on scouts. Add scout only penalties for fitting hp mods, like extra speed reduction for plates and extra shield recharge delay for shield extenders. The goal being to prevent scouts stacking tank mods. The way the game works now encourages hp mods on scouts. By this I mean the fact that hp isn't a percentage bonus, coupled with scouts small hit box, good speed and regen. You get much more benefit adding 66 shield to a scout than to an assault.


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Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 1975	Posted - 2014.10.22 06:45:00 - [1] - Quote Increase profile from 35dB to 40dB. That's it. Proto scouts can still hide from everybody, but they must now sacrifice more in order to do it. No cloak nerf, speed nerf, sidearms only nerf... just 5dB increase to profile. Mercs whine about the rail rifle but refuse to shield tank to counter it. But that's none of my business.
Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 1978	Posted - 2014.10.22 07:55:00 - [2] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: Two problems with your suggestion. Firstly scouts wouldn't be able to hide from everything as currently my max skill proto scout needs to fill all low slots with dampeners and activate a proto cloak to avoid all scans. Personally I wouldn't have a problem with not being able to avoid focused scanners on Gal logis, but many people do have a problem with this. I'm more worried about the other scanner varients and Amarr scouts, which currently I have to sacrifice enough to avoid, and would be useless if I didn't. Even Gal scouts in pub matches force me to use a dampener on all my scout fits, not just proto, so I don't think it would be very fair, or a good idea to mess with this. Secondly, by placing more importance on fitting dampeners you unfairly favour scouts with more low slots. This is because so many useful scout modules are in lows that can't be used if all low slots are dampeners. There is already talk of nerfing scanning whilst cloaked and increasing decloak delay. Personally I think if scouts need more nerfing CCP should go after the tank modules on scouts. Add scout only penalties for fitting hp mods, like extra speed reduction for plates and extra shield recharge delay for shield extenders. The goal being to prevent scouts stacking tank mods. The way the game works now encourages hp mods on scouts. By this I mean the fact that hp isn't a percentage bonus, coupled with scouts small hit box, good speed and regen. You get much more benefit adding 66 shield to a scout than to an assault. Currently Gallente or Caldari scouts can get under all but GalLogi 5 Duvolle focused scanner with 2 damps. Profile: 15.72dB GalLogi 5 Duvolle Focused: 15dB This is far too easy, especially in the case of Gallente who then has two more low slots to fiddle with, plus the cloak dampening which makes it completely unscannable. This is too much. Completely unscannable fits should be completely dedicated to that. There is simply too much wiggle room for a fit that cannot be found at all. Dampening should win out over scanning, but it should be neck and neck the entire way. A 40dB profile means a GalScout must use 3 damps and a cloak to become completely unscannable. This is fair, because you are now paperthin. This is the tradeoff. You are either tankier and scannable, or unscannable and paper. GalScout with 2 damps. Note the profile. Mercs whine about the rail rifle but refuse to shield tank to counter it. But that's none of my business.
Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 1979	Posted - 2014.10.22 09:02:00 - [3] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: Profile and precision are rounded to the nearest whole number, ties go to the scanner. So your example scouts would both be scanned and would need to activate a cloak (adv or pro) to avoid scans. Cal scouts only have 2 low slots, both used. Minmatar scouts would need 3 damps and a pro cloak, they only have 3 low slots. This is how things stand now. And that's how it should be. The very best active scanner should only be beaten by the very best dampened scout. Let us also have the best possible active scans which top out at 17.85dB. Again, Gallente And Caldari scouts get under this with ease, and don't even need a cloak to do so. A scout suit should have to sacrifice a lot in order to avoid all scans. Just as a suit should have to sacrifice in order to pick up all scouts (passively, at least) Especially when currently they can get under the best possible scanner ever (GalLogi 5 Duvolle Focused scanner) It should definitely be possible for GalScout to get under the best scanner, but even with a 40dB profile, all it takes is 2 damps and a cloak to get under the best passive scans. I don't mind scouts being unscannable. I do mind scouts being unscannable with minimal sacrifice compared to the scanner and being able to tank like a medium. Giving the precision bonus to Caldari would also be a solution I can get behind, but in any case it should take more than 2 damps and a cloak to get under the best scanner in the game. All this does is require scouts to fit one more damp. That's all. Mercs whine about the rail rifle but refuse to shield tank to counter it. But that's none of my business.
Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 1986	Posted - 2014.10.23 01:52:00 - [4] - Quote Zindorak wrote: Im ok with using a maximum of 3 complex damps to hide from everything on my gal scout. Anything over that is overkill 3 complex camps plus cloak to hide from everything. Mercs whine about the rail rifle but refuse to shield tank to counter it. But that's none of my business.
Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 1988	Posted - 2014.10.24 00:48:00 - [5] - Quote Zindorak wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: Zindorak wrote: Im ok with using a maximum of 3 complex damps to hide from everything on my gal scout. Anything over that is overkill 3 complex camps plus cloak to hide from everything. Im good with that plus ADV cloak Which is what I'm shooting for. Unscannable isn't the issue, its assault level tank and unscannable. Mercs whine about the rail rifle but refuse to shield tank to counter it. But that's none of my business.
Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 1992	Posted - 2014.10.24 02:38:00 - [6] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: FIRSTNAME- lastname wrote: Varoth Drac wrote: Profile and precision are rounded to the nearest whole number, ties go to the scanner. So your example scouts would both be scanned and would need to activate a cloak (adv or pro) to avoid scans. Cal scouts only have 2 low slots, both used. Minmatar scouts would need 3 damps and a pro cloak, they only have 3 low slots. This is how things stand now. Haha so high... gallente only needs two damps advanced hahaha Sorry, got that wrong. A Gallente scout needs 2 complex dampeners, an active proto cloak, and Gallente scout lvl5 to avoid all scans. Low profile is their speciality. But again, being unable to be found is a huge reason for scout proliferation. 40dB profile is a very small change, especially since things like sidearm only are also on the table. I want scouts to be hard to find, but being impossible to find should take dedication. Mercs whine about the rail rifle but refuse to shield tank to counter it. But that's none of my business.