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AV-Vehicle balance is so simple it hurts!

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DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 5454	Posted - 2014.10.13 19:30:00 - [1] - Quote Dust should have taken a page from Star Wars Battlefront and simply done the following: Make it hard for infantry to kill Vehicles Make it difficult for vehicles to kill infantry That way you don't have infantry complaining that vehicles are unfair death machines and yet vehicles don't complain that they have tinfoil for armor. So reduce the damage of AV weapons and reduce the damage of vehicle weapons/make vehicle weapons harder to use. It is actually this simple. Learn to separate the morals from the Muhla.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 2165	Posted - 2014.10.13 19:34:00 - [2] - Quote You're done playing, stop commenting already. I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 5454	Posted - 2014.10.13 19:41:00 - [3] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: You're done playing, stop commenting already. In played about 4 hours ago. It's hard playing and typing on my phone at the same time. Learn to separate the morals from the Muhla.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 13507	Posted - 2014.10.13 19:57:00 - [4] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Dust should have taken a page from Star Wars Battlefront and simply done the following: Make it hard for infantry to kill Vehicles Make it difficult for vehicles to kill infantry That way you don't have infantry complaining that vehicles are unfair death machines and yet vehicles don't complain that they have tinfoil for armor. So reduce the damage of AV weapons and reduce the damage of vehicle weapons/make vehicle weapons harder to use. It is actually this simple. Uh dude..... Vehicles in Starwars Battlefront utterly destroy Infantry...... "We were commanded to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocents caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 5454	Posted - 2014.10.13 20:05:00 - [5] - Quote True Adamance wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Dust should have taken a page from Star Wars Battlefront and simply done the following: Make it hard for infantry to kill Vehicles Make it difficult for vehicles to kill infantry That way you don't have infantry complaining that vehicles are unfair death machines and yet vehicles don't complain that they have tinfoil for armor. So reduce the damage of AV weapons and reduce the damage of vehicle weapons/make vehicle weapons harder to use. It is actually this simple. Uh dude..... Vehicles in Starwars Battlefront utterly destroy Infantry...... Except for the fact that the AV infantry could quickly send vehicles away and destroy them VERY quickly if they hit them in their weak spot. Learn to separate the morals from the Muhla.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 4157	Posted - 2014.10.13 20:19:00 - [6] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Make it hard for infantry to kill Vehicles Make it difficult for vehicles to kill infantry Primary problem is then vehicles have nothing to do in this game. Except kill other vehicles. If all vehicles do is kill vehicles, then there's no reason for anyone to field vehicles at all. Which hits on the point that vehicles are a completely broken and unfixable mechanic in DUST, and the best we can do, is try to make AV equal to vehicles in combat power. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Vesta Opalus Kang Lo Holding 51	Posted - 2014.10.13 20:19:00 - [7] - Quote True Adamance wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Dust should have taken a page from Star Wars Battlefront and simply done the following: Make it hard for infantry to kill Vehicles Make it difficult for vehicles to kill infantry That way you don't have infantry complaining that vehicles are unfair death machines and yet vehicles don't complain that they have tinfoil for armor. So reduce the damage of AV weapons and reduce the damage of vehicle weapons/make vehicle weapons harder to use. It is actually this simple. Uh dude..... Vehicles in Starwars Battlefront utterly destroy Infantry...... You have to understand this guy is probably a tanker, so going 50-1 is fair and balanced. I mean, vehicles in SW Battlefront can probably only go 25-1, what a horrible thought.
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 1037	Posted - 2014.10.13 20:27:00 - [8] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Dust should have taken a page from Star Wars Battlefront and simply done the following: Make it hard for infantry to kill Vehicles Make it difficult for vehicles to kill infantry That way you don't have infantry complaining that vehicles are unfair death machines and yet vehicles don't complain that they have tinfoil for armor. So reduce the damage of AV weapons and reduce the damage of vehicle weapons/make vehicle weapons harder to use. It is actually this simple. its already hard for AV to take out vehicles.. apart from missile/blaster turret the rail turrets are useless against infantry except maybe light rails if the person is a good aim. so yeah.. go back to being silent.. if you do not actively play dust you do not have the right to comment on issues and topics at hand [[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 1 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]]
Atiim 12938	Posted - 2014.10.13 20:32:00 - [9] - Quote Vesta Opalus wrote: You have to understand this guy is probably a tanker, so going 50-1 is fair and balanced. I mean, vehicles in SW Battlefront can probably only go 25-1, what a horrible thought. DeadlyAztec11 is not a Tanker. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 13509	Posted - 2014.10.13 20:33:00 - [10] - Quote Vesta Opalus wrote: True Adamance wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Dust should have taken a page from Star Wars Battlefront and simply done the following: Make it hard for infantry to kill Vehicles Make it difficult for vehicles to kill infantry That way you don't have infantry complaining that vehicles are unfair death machines and yet vehicles don't complain that they have tinfoil for armor. So reduce the damage of AV weapons and reduce the damage of vehicle weapons/make vehicle weapons harder to use. It is actually this simple. Uh dude..... Vehicles in Starwars Battlefront utterly destroy Infantry...... You have to understand this guy is probably a tanker, so going 50-1 is fair and balanced. I mean, vehicles in SW Battlefront can probably only go 25-1, what a horrible thought. I'm a tanker and Aztec isn't...as far as I am aware. "We were commanded to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocents caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon

DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 5454	Posted - 2014.10.13 20:38:00 - [11] - Quote Vesta Opalus wrote: True Adamance wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Dust should have taken a page from Star Wars Battlefront and simply done the following: Make it hard for infantry to kill Vehicles Make it difficult for vehicles to kill infantry That way you don't have infantry complaining that vehicles are unfair death machines and yet vehicles don't complain that they have tinfoil for armor. So reduce the damage of AV weapons and reduce the damage of vehicle weapons/make vehicle weapons harder to use. It is actually this simple. Uh dude..... Vehicles in Starwars Battlefront utterly destroy Infantry...... You have to understand this guy is probably a tanker, so going 50-1 is fair and balanced. I mean, vehicles in SW Battlefront can probably only go 25-1, what a horrible thought. Actually, if you knew me you would know that my favorite class is AV and my first Proto weapon was the Swarm Launcher. Also I have 0 SP and 0 ISK in vehicles. Also in SWBF my favorite class was the Rebel Vanguard. The guy with a lock on rocket Launcher that shot two rockets. So what's that about me being a tanker? Learn to separate the morals from the Muhla.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 13509	Posted - 2014.10.13 20:41:00 - [12] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Vesta Opalus wrote: True Adamance wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Dust should have taken a page from Star Wars Battlefront and simply done the following: Make it hard for infantry to kill Vehicles Make it difficult for vehicles to kill infantry That way you don't have infantry complaining that vehicles are unfair death machines and yet vehicles don't complain that they have tinfoil for armor. So reduce the damage of AV weapons and reduce the damage of vehicle weapons/make vehicle weapons harder to use. It is actually this simple. Uh dude..... Vehicles in Starwars Battlefront utterly destroy Infantry...... You have to understand this guy is probably a tanker, so going 50-1 is fair and balanced. I mean, vehicles in SW Battlefront can probably only go 25-1, what a horrible thought. Actually, if you knew me you would know that my favorite class is AV and my first Proto weapon was the Swarm Launcher. Also I have 0 SP and 0 ISK in vehicles. Also in SWBF my favorite class was the Rebel Vanguard. The guy with a lock on rocket Launcher that shot two rockets. So what's that about me being a tanker? Fair enough but hell dude...... AT-AT's, AT-ST's, Droid Tanks, and Clone Tanks utterly annihilated infantry if used right. "We were commanded to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocents caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 5454	Posted - 2014.10.13 20:41:00 - [13] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Dust should have taken a page from Star Wars Battlefront and simply done the following: Make it hard for infantry to kill Vehicles Make it difficult for vehicles to kill infantry That way you don't have infantry complaining that vehicles are unfair death machines and yet vehicles don't complain that they have tinfoil for armor. So reduce the damage of AV weapons and reduce the damage of vehicle weapons/make vehicle weapons harder to use. It is actually this simple. its already hard for AV to take out vehicles.. apart from missile/blaster turret the rail turrets are useless against infantry except maybe light rails if the person is a good aim. so yeah.. go back to being silent.. if you do not actively play dust you do not have the right to comment on issues and topics at hand I was one of the first players to coin the term dedicated AV. Alright, so I know the struggle. I probably played this game longer than you have and let me remind everyone that I literally played a few hours ago. Learn to separate the morals from the Muhla.
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 5454	Posted - 2014.10.13 20:45:00 - [14] - Quote True Adamance wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Vesta Opalus wrote: True Adamance wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Dust should have taken a page from Star Wars Battlefront and simply done the following: Make it hard for infantry to kill Vehicles Make it difficult for vehicles to kill infantry That way you don't have infantry complaining that vehicles are unfair death machines and yet vehicles don't complain that they have tinfoil for armor. So reduce the damage of AV weapons and reduce the damage of vehicle weapons/make vehicle weapons harder to use. It is actually this simple. Uh dude..... Vehicles in Starwars Battlefront utterly destroy Infantry...... You have to understand this guy is probably a tanker, so going 50-1 is fair and balanced. I mean, vehicles in SW Battlefront can probably only go 25-1, what a horrible thought. Actually, if you knew me you would know that my favorite class is AV and my first Proto weapon was the Swarm Launcher. Also I have 0 SP and 0 ISK in vehicles. Also in SWBF my favorite class was the Rebel Vanguard. The guy with a lock on rocket Launcher that shot two rockets. So what's that about me being a tanker? Fair enough but hell dude...... AT-AT's, AT-ST's, Droid Tanks, and Clone Tanks utterly annihilated infantry if used right. True, but AV quickly dispersed vehicles since they had the ability to free fire AND lock-on. So you basically had a Swarm Launcher and a Plasma Cannon in one. Also mines took out nearly half the health of tanks and destroyed speeders with just one mine. Learn to separate the morals from the Muhla.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 13509	Posted - 2014.10.13 20:47:00 - [15] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Fair enough but hell dude...... AT-AT's, AT-ST's, Droid Tanks, and Clone Tanks utterly annihilated infantry if used right. True, but AV quickly dispersed vehicles since they had the ability to free fire AND lock-on. So you basically had a Swarm Launcher and a Plasma Cannon in one. Also mines took out nearly half the health of tanks and destroyed speeders with just one mine. [/quote] Yeah that's true....but then they glowed red didn't they? Also had to watch out for those bloody wrist rockets and grenades. If one hit your weak point you were in trouble. "We were commanded to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocents caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
Benjamin Ciscko Fatal Absolution 3359	Posted - 2014.10.13 20:50:00 - [16] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Make it hard for infantry to kill Vehicles Make it difficult for vehicles to kill infantry Primary problem is then vehicles have nothing to do in this game. Except kill other vehicles. If all vehicles do is kill vehicles, then there's no reason for anyone to field vehicles at all. Which hits on the point that vehicles are a completely broken and unfixable mechanic in DUST, and the best we can do, is try to make vehicles equal to AV in combat power. FTFY Tanker/Logi/Assault
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 5454	Posted - 2014.10.13 20:53:00 - [17] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Make it hard for infantry to kill Vehicles Make it difficult for vehicles to kill infantry Primary problem is then vehicles have nothing to do in this game. Except kill other vehicles. If all vehicles do is kill vehicles, then there's no reason for anyone to field vehicles at all. Which hits on the point that vehicles are a completely broken and unfixable mechanic in DUST, and the best we can do, is try to make AV equal to vehicles in combat power. Vehicles would still have the ability to transport people, provide spawn points and would continue to be able to provide fire support. It's just that they wouldn't be able to completely obliterate infantry in one swoop. Basically I want to reduce the shear raw power that both vehicles and AV provide by reducing both their abilities to disperse damage. Though at the same time I want to increase the survivability of both infantry to vehicle attacks and vehicles to infantry attacks. Learn to separate the morals from the Muhla.
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 5454	Posted - 2014.10.13 20:56:00 - [18] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Yeah that's true....but then they glowed red didn't they? Also had to watch out for those bloody wrist rockets and grenades. If one hit your weak point you were in trouble. They only glowed red in SWBF2, in SWBF1 they were just dark circles with dark red dots in the middle. If you hid them on the grass or on walls/around corners they were practically impossible to see. Anyways this is what I'm getting at. The game play was fair. Learn to separate the morals from the Muhla.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 13510	Posted - 2014.10.13 20:58:00 - [19] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Make it hard for infantry to kill Vehicles Make it difficult for vehicles to kill infantry Primary problem is then vehicles have nothing to do in this game. Except kill other vehicles. If all vehicles do is kill vehicles, then there's no reason for anyone to field vehicles at all. Which hits on the point that vehicles are a completely broken and unfixable mechanic in DUST, and the best we can do, is try to make vehicles equal to AV in combat power. I'd disagree with that statement. The purpose of HAV should be to carry and be able to deploy massive ordinance against a foes entrenched position or to enter into conflict with the intent to establish a ground vehicle dominance. As such HAV should carry the most powerful Anti Vehicle weapons in the form of their main turrets which allow they to directly and efficiently engage enemy vehicle while being immune to small arms fire. However this cost of this is their ability to effectively engage infantry without secondary gunners. As I see it this is what the goal of HAV should have been. 1.) To destroy enemy ground based vehicles 2.) To be able to provide a mobile firing point for up to 2 infantry units 3.) To burn down the EHP and Destroy in game objectives/ defences. Not 1.) Wreck all infantry 2.) **** all over Dropships 3.) More infantry farming. AV's counter role should have been the annihilation of such slow and cumbersome Heavy Assault Vehicles by being able to use their powerful weapons and superior mobility to evade the main cannon of the tank and tear it to pieces. "We were commanded to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocents caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
Magnus Amadeuss Bragian Order Amarr Empire 1155	Posted - 2014.10.13 21:49:00 - [20] - Quote I think vehicles could use a little rethink along the lines of the OP. Make tank main turrets purely AV (not effective versus infantry) Make the secondary turrets effective anti-infantry Make tanks take 2-3 AV'ers to kill Require a 5-6 second dismount time (use the hacking interface) Now the tanks used solo are just vehicle supression vehicles Tanks with a team (like a tanker squad) are rolling porcupines of death and major WP providers. There, everyone is happy (well except Duna) This is off the cuff btw. Fixing EWAR

Skippy Longstocking Paladin Survey Force Amarr Empire 105	Posted - 2014.10.13 21:58:00 - [21] - Quote Magnus Amadeuss wrote: I think vehicles could use a little rethink along the lines of the OP. Make tank main turrets purely AV (not effective versus infantry) Make the secondary turrets effective anti-infantry Make tanks take 2-3 AV'ers to kill Require a 5-6 second dismount time (use the hacking interface) Now the tanks used solo are just vehicle supression vehicles Tanks with a team (like a tanker squad) are rolling porcupines of death and major WP providers. There, everyone is happy (well except Duna) This is off the cuff btw. I like this idea.
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 5457	Posted - 2014.10.13 21:59:00 - [22] - Quote Magnus Amadeuss wrote: I think vehicles could use a little rethink along the lines of the OP. Make tank main turrets purely AV (not effective versus infantry) Make the secondary turrets effective anti-infantry Make tanks take 2-3 AV'ers to kill Require a 5-6 second dismount time (use the hacking interface) Now the tanks used solo are just vehicle supression vehicles Tanks with a team (like a tanker squad) are rolling porcupines of death and major WP providers. There, everyone is happy (well except Duna) This is off the cuff btw. No, just no. Learn to separate the morals from the Muhla.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 13514	Posted - 2014.10.13 22:14:00 - [23] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Magnus Amadeuss wrote: I think vehicles could use a little rethink along the lines of the OP. Make tank main turrets purely AV (not effective versus infantry) Make the secondary turrets effective anti-infantry Make tanks take 2-3 AV'ers to kill Require a 5-6 second dismount time (use the hacking interface) Now the tanks used solo are just vehicle supression vehicles Tanks with a team (like a tanker squad) are rolling porcupines of death and major WP providers. There, everyone is happy (well except Duna) This is off the cuff btw. No, just no. Definitely on a better better Magnus. Embark and Disembarking Vehicles needs to take longer to prevent quick escapes or ducking out with HMG to kill AVers at close quarters. Main turrets should always been a OHKO on direct hit but have much slower tracking speeds and verticality, Splash AOE. With real incentive for players to carry secondary gunners for protection. Big NO to the "requires 2-3 Avers to kill though" One well placed AVers and 3-4 shots should do it. "We were commanded to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocents caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 13514	Posted - 2014.10.13 22:21:00 - [24] - Quote More of THIS TANK https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgYXup2k4B8 LESS OF THIS TANK https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HK8xyWq2aCw "We were commanded to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocents caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
Zindorak G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 1082	Posted - 2014.10.13 22:23:00 - [25] - Quote Skippy Longstocking wrote: Magnus Amadeuss wrote: I think vehicles could use a little rethink along the lines of the OP. Make tank main turrets purely AV (not effective versus infantry) Make the secondary turrets effective anti-infantry Make tanks take 2-3 AV'ers to kill ~~Require a 5-6 second dismount time (use the hacking interface)~~ Now the tanks used solo are just vehicle supression vehicles Tanks with a team (like a tanker squad) are rolling porcupines of death and major WP providers. There, everyone is happy (well except Duna) This is off the cuff btw. I like this idea. Same for ADS would be cool Pokemon master and Tekken Lord Gk0 Scout yay :) Pls fix SCR CCP
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 13514	Posted - 2014.10.13 22:27:00 - [26] - Quote Zindorak wrote: Skippy Longstocking wrote: Magnus Amadeuss wrote: I think vehicles could use a little rethink along the lines of the OP. Make tank main turrets purely AV (not effective versus infantry) Make the secondary turrets effective anti-infantry Make tanks take 2-3 AV'ers to kill ~~Require a 5-6 second dismount time (use the hacking interface)~~ Now the tanks used solo are just vehicle supression vehicles Tanks with a team (like a tanker squad) are rolling porcupines of death and major WP providers. There, everyone is happy (well except Duna) This is off the cuff btw. I like this idea. Same for ADS would be cool No you will never have Sky Tanks. "We were commanded to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocents caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3626	Posted - 2014.10.13 22:32:00 - [27] - Quote Magnus Amadeuss wrote: I think vehicles could use a little rethink along the lines of the OP. Make tank main turrets purely AV (not effective versus infantry) Make the secondary turrets effective anti-infantry Make tanks take 2-3 AV'ers to kill Require a 5-6 second dismount time (use the hacking interface) Now the tanks used solo are just vehicle supression vehicles Tanks with a team (like a tanker squad) are rolling porcupines of death and major WP providers. There, everyone is happy (well except Duna) This is off the cuff btw. Pure AV tanks? No. God no. Taking away their ability to shoot back would make killing them boring, and boring is a damn sin. Secondary turrets ARE mostly anti-infantry, so this is a zero-sum solution. One person drive tank? One person to destroy tank. It's that simple. There's a reason this mantra is hammered upon and that reason is Infantry Farming. One Av = One Tank lessens the phenomenon SHARPLY unless no one is willing to fit AV. 5-6 second dismount? I'd have to relearn my mobile donut roll maneuver timing but I can see this. Make the dismount time for all suits. Anyone with a team is a porcupine of death. tanks supporting an infantry push are nearly untouchable unless their blueberries take the word "incompetent" and bring it to new depths of stupidity. Right now my issue is that tanks don't act like tanks. the cannons should be slow-firing, high alpha, big blast. Any weapon set up to behave like a machinegun is absolutely set up perfectly for farming infantry.
Zindorak G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 1082	Posted - 2014.10.13 22:36:00 - [28] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Zindorak wrote: Skippy Longstocking wrote: Magnus Amadeuss wrote: I think vehicles could use a little rethink along the lines of the OP. Make tank main turrets purely AV (not effective versus infantry) Make the secondary turrets effective anti-infantry Make tanks take 2-3 AV'ers to kill ~~Require a 5-6 second dismount time (use the hacking interface)~~ Now the tanks used solo are just vehicle supression vehicles Tanks with a team (like a tanker squad) are rolling porcupines of death and major WP providers. There, everyone is happy (well except Duna) This is off the cuff btw. I like this idea. Same for ADS would be cool No you will never have Sky Tanks. But we are ighting the same war dude. We need to kill those av scum! Pokemon master and Tekken Lord Gk0 Scout yay :) Pls fix SCR CCP
Xocoyol Zaraoul Superior Genetics 2548	Posted - 2014.10.13 22:40:00 - [29] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Which hits on the point that vehicles are a completely broken and unfixable mechanic in DUST, and the best we can do, is try to make AV equal to vehicles in combat power. The problem is Vehicles are inherently better "Slayers" and our current system rewards Slaying far too much above the actual objectives. Ghost Recon: Phantoms is a pretty good example of how you can make players want to play for the objectives and promote team play. "You see those red dots over there? Go and shoot them until you see a +50 on the screen" - Arkena Wyrnspire
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 13516	Posted - 2014.10.13 22:41:00 - [30] - Quote Zindorak wrote: No you will never have Sky Tanks. But we are ighting the same war dude. We need to kill those av scum![/quote] Nope we need them. "We were commanded to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocents caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon

Operative 1125 Lokaas True Companion Planetary Requisitions 484	Posted - 2014.10.13 22:46:00 - [31] - Quote DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Dust should have taken a page from Star Wars Battlefront and simply done the following: Make it hard for infantry to kill Vehicles Make it difficult for vehicles to kill infantry That way you don't have infantry complaining that vehicles are unfair death machines and yet vehicles don't complain that they have tinfoil for armor. So reduce the damage of AV weapons and reduce the damage of vehicle weapons/make vehicle weapons harder to use. It is actually this simple. I made two posts already with easy balance fixes. In short they were, limit ammo more and create a higher contrast between a defensive fitted vehicle and an offensive vehicle. THIS IS THE VOICE OF RÁN
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 1230	Posted - 2014.10.13 23:34:00 - [32] - Quote I like where tanks and AV are. Good tankers should be able to go 50-0 and goid AV'ers should kill tanks, I think that is pretty much where we are. Tankers may have issues but I don't think it is balance. Throw in the ADS and things get a little more complicated. The small changes in Delta seemed to be making pilots cry, some of that is probably justified and the changes should probably be tweaked. Because, that's why.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 13517	Posted - 2014.10.13 23:42:00 - [33] - Quote Nothing Certain wrote: I like where tanks and AV are. Good tankers should be able to go 50-0 and goid AV'ers should kill tanks, I think that is pretty much where we are. Tankers may have issues but I don't think it is balance. Throw in the ADS and things get a little more complicated. The small changes in Delta seemed to be making pilots cry, some of that is probably justified and the changes should probably be tweaked. How can you? Tanks have no inertia, their primary cannon sound and feel like firing a potato gun, only half the content is present in the game...etc. I didn't realise it until I started playing other games with better tank archetypes in it but....... HAV in Dust are just lack lustre. "We were commanded to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocents caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
Magnus Amadeuss Bragian Order Amarr Empire 1156	Posted - 2014.10.14 00:54:00 - [34] - Quote True Adamance wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Magnus Amadeuss wrote: I think vehicles could use a little rethink along the lines of the OP. Make tank main turrets purely AV (not effective versus infantry) Make the secondary turrets effective anti-infantry Make tanks take 2-3 AV'ers to kill Require a 5-6 second dismount time (use the hacking interface) Now the tanks used solo are just vehicle supression vehicles Tanks with a team (like a tanker squad) are rolling porcupines of death and major WP providers. There, everyone is happy (well except Duna) This is off the cuff btw. No, just no. Definitely on a better better Magnus. Embark and Disembarking Vehicles needs to take longer to prevent quick escapes or ducking out with HMG to kill AVers at close quarters. Main turrets should always been a OHKO on direct hit but have much slower tracking speeds and verticality, Splash AOE. With real incentive for players to carry secondary gunners for protection. Big NO to the "requires 2-3 Avers to kill though" One well placed AVers and 3-4 shots should do it. Here is the thing though, say we did make all tankers turrets AV only (0% effective versus infantry, lets say that their signature profile is way to low for the large cannons to hit), the tanks themselves are not really a huge threat to AV players or infantry.. they can be ignored. Throw in 2 gunners, and now you have a death machine that takes 3 people to make it effective, I am not sure if 1 player should be able to solo that (aside from a well laid trap w/ remotes/proxies, grenade spam and general AV) But like I said.. off the cuff, I am not too attached to the idea. Fixing EWAR
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 13518	Posted - 2014.10.14 01:02:00 - [35] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Magnus Amadeuss wrote: I think vehicles could use a little rethink along the lines of the OP. Make tank main turrets purely AV (not effective versus infantry) Make the secondary turrets effective anti-infantry Make tanks take 2-3 AV'ers to kill Require a 5-6 second dismount time (use the hacking interface) Now the tanks used solo are just vehicle supression vehicles Tanks with a team (like a tanker squad) are rolling porcupines of death and major WP providers. There, everyone is happy (well except Duna) This is off the cuff btw. Pure AV tanks? No. God no. Taking away their ability to shoot back would make killing them boring, and boring is a damn sin. Secondary turrets ARE mostly anti-infantry, so this is a zero-sum solution. One person drive tank? One person to destroy tank. It's that simple. There's a reason this mantra is hammered upon and that reason is Infantry Farming. One Av = One Tank lessens the phenomenon SHARPLY unless no one is willing to fit AV. 5-6 second dismount? I'd have to relearn my mobile donut roll maneuver timing but I can see this. Make the dismount time for all suits. Anyone with a team is a porcupine of death. tanks supporting an infantry push are nearly untouchable unless their blueberries take the word "incompetent" and bring it to new depths of stupidity. Right now my issue is that tanks don't act like tanks. the cannons should be slow-firing, high alpha, big blast. Any weapon set up to behave like a machinegun is absolutely set up perfectly for farming infantry. Oh not they'd shoot back. Co-axial small turrets could be implemented. But for that slow firing big blast HAV they need to have power..... the power to knock out other tanks in a manner befitting the size and function of their main cannon. This means having them as AV tanks. Well not necessarily I suppose, we could run with the precepts 50mm Gun - 5.5 Second Reload : Lowest Penetrative Power, Lesser Range, Less Destructive AoE, Most Stable, Best Tracking 75mm Gun - 8.6 Second Reload. 88mm Gun - 10.5 Second reload 105mm Gun- 13.1 second reload : Highest Penetrative Power, Range, and Destructive AoE, Least Stable, Worst Tracking "We were commanded to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocents caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
Bahirae Serugiusu Vendetta Reactionary Force 174	Posted - 2014.10.14 01:19:00 - [36] - Quote True Adamance wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Dust should have taken a page from Star Wars Battlefront and simply done the following: Make it hard for infantry to kill Vehicles Make it difficult for vehicles to kill infantry That way you don't have infantry complaining that vehicles are unfair death machines and yet vehicles don't complain that they have tinfoil for armor. So reduce the damage of AV weapons and reduce the damage of vehicle weapons/make vehicle weapons harder to use. It is actually this simple. Uh dude..... Vehicles in Starwars Battlefront utterly destroy Infantry...... But at least grenades in Battlefront did damage to vehicles. And the maps were big enough that slowing a vehicle down really did matter.
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 5458	Posted - 2014.10.14 01:31:00 - [37] - Quote Bahirae Serugiusu wrote: True Adamance wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Dust should have taken a page from Star Wars Battlefront and simply done the following: Make it hard for infantry to kill Vehicles Make it difficult for vehicles to kill infantry That way you don't have infantry complaining that vehicles are unfair death machines and yet vehicles don't complain that they have tinfoil for armor. So reduce the damage of AV weapons and reduce the damage of vehicle weapons/make vehicle weapons harder to use. It is actually this simple. Uh dude..... Vehicles in Starwars Battlefront utterly destroy Infantry...... But at least grenades in Battlefront did damage to vehicles. And the maps were big enough that slowing a vehicle down really did matter. Close Quarters maps proved death traps for vehicles especially when mines were strewn about and long range maps were equally deadly since it gave an greater chance of locked on missiles of hitting. SWBF1 was just made right. Learn to separate the morals from the Muhla.
Racro 01 Arifistan 501st Knights of Leanbox 427	Posted - 2014.10.14 01:44:00 - [38] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Vesta Opalus wrote: True Adamance wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Dust should have taken a page from Star Wars Battlefront and simply done the following: Make it hard for infantry to kill Vehicles Make it difficult for vehicles to kill infantry That way you don't have infantry complaining that vehicles are unfair death machines and yet vehicles don't complain that they have tinfoil for armor. So reduce the damage of AV weapons and reduce the damage of vehicle weapons/make vehicle weapons harder to use. It is actually this simple. Uh dude..... Vehicles in Starwars Battlefront utterly destroy Infantry...... You have to understand this guy is probably a tanker, so going 50-1 is fair and balanced. I mean, vehicles in SW Battlefront can probably only go 25-1, what a horrible thought. I'm a tanker and Aztec isn't...as far as I am aware. But Vesta you have to understand..... the good tankers.....and there were a lot of them were going upwards of 25+ kills a game even when Swarms and Forges dominated the maps from their non rendered positions. Hell I was doing it to 52/1, 62/3, 45/0 and this was before 1.7 and the Tankpocalypse. I don't care if it was fair to infantry back then (prior to 1.7 when HAV were the closest to balanced they could have been), I earnt those kills on my merits. if we had our surya and sagaris class marauder havs......then watch infantry complain. *Elite Gallenten Soldier*
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 13523	Posted - 2014.10.14 01:49:00 - [39] - Quote Racro 01 Arifistan wrote: True Adamance wrote: Vesta Opalus wrote: True Adamance wrote: DeadlyAztec11 wrote: Dust should have taken a page from Star Wars Battlefront and simply done the following: Make it hard for infantry to kill Vehicles Make it difficult for vehicles to kill infantry That way you don't have infantry complaining that vehicles are unfair death machines and yet vehicles don't complain that they have tinfoil for armor. So reduce the damage of AV weapons and reduce the damage of vehicle weapons/make vehicle weapons harder to use. It is actually this simple. Uh dude..... Vehicles in Starwars Battlefront utterly destroy Infantry...... You have to understand this guy is probably a tanker, so going 50-1 is fair and balanced. I mean, vehicles in SW Battlefront can probably only go 25-1, what a horrible thought. I'm a tanker and Aztec isn't...as far as I am aware. But Vesta you have to understand..... the good tankers.....and there were a lot of them were going upwards of 25+ kills a game even when Swarms and Forges dominated the maps from their non rendered positions. Hell I was doing it to 52/1, 62/3, 45/0 and this was before 1.7 and the Tankpocalypse. I don't care if it was fair to infantry back then (prior to 1.7 when HAV were the closest to balanced they could have been), I earnt those kills on my merits. if we had our surya and sagaris class marauder havs......then watch infantry complain. They did. And you lost it. I never got the chance to pilot a Marauder.....I wasn't an operator back then..... something I regret to this day. "We were commanded to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocents caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon


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