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CCP Logibro C C P C C P Alliance 9390	Posted - 2014.10.07 18:19:00 - [1] - Quote Hello wonderful forum readers. Today is the first in what may (depending on how much you like it and how much time I have) be a series of posts on how some of the mechanics of DUST actually work. These include things like how is damage done calculated, how heat works and today's topic: Dispersion. So what is dispersion? Dispersion is what causes your bullets to fire in a cone from the center of your weapon, rather than all coming out as a straight line. This is generally more obvious with faster firing weapons (with the HMG being a prime example). So how does it work? First off, not every weapon actually uses dispersion. A good example of this is the Laser Rifle. Additionally, any weapon that fires a projectile completely ignores dispersion. Next (assuming our weapon is using dispersion) we have the maximum and minimum dispersion. These two numbers dictate what the maximum and minimum possible dispersion numbers you can achieve on your weapon are. Both are specified in degrees from origin (the exact point that you're aiming at in the middle of your crosshair). For example, the Assault Rifle has a maximum dispersion of 3 degrees, and a minimum of 0.75 degrees. This means that when firing you start with 0.75 degrees of dispersion, and will gradually grow to 3 degrees of dispersion. Next we have growth per shot. This number specifies how much the dispersion should grow (in degrees) every time you shoot the weapon. For the Assault Rifle, this is 0.27 degrees. So using what we know, firing our Assault Rifle for one second should increase our dispersion by 3.6 degrees (0.27/0.075) right? As it turns out, thatGÇÖs not the case. We also have dispersion decay. This is the rate that dispersion is moving back towards its minimum value. Your dispersion is decaying at all times, even when you are firing. However, dispersion decay isnGÇÖt a flat number like dispersion growth is. Instead, we have a GÇ£Decay Rate at Maximum [Dispersion] per SecondGÇ¥ and a GÇ£Decay Rate at Minimum [Dispersion] per SecondGÇ¥. For the Assault Rifle, these two numbers are 6 degrees and 2.5 degrees respectively. So how do we use these two numbers? The dispersion decay rate increases from its minimum to its maximum as the dispersion increases from its minimum. This means that as you get closer to maximum dispersion, your rate of decay increases. Using the Assault Rifle as an example, if our current dispersion is 1 degree, then our rate of dispersion decay is around 2.8 degrees per second. If our current dispersion is 1.2, then our rate of decay is about 3.2 degrees per second. When combined with our growth per shot, this serves to slowly bring our rate of dispersion growth as our dispersion gets higher. You can see examples for a number of different weapons in this sheet. If you look at the attached chart, you might also notice something strange: one of the lines is decreasing. That would be the HMG which is unique in that it has inverse dispersion. What this means is that the more it fires, the more accurate it gets. There are also some other numbers that affect dispersion we havenGÇÖt gone over yet. The first is the Zoomed Dispersion Multiplier. This increases or decreases the dispersion when looking down the sights of a weapon. Most rifles have this set to 0, meaning that they have no dispersion when looking down the weaponGÇÖs sights. The HMG has this set to 1, which means that it has the same dispersion when zoomed as when aiming from the hip. Lastly, we have the state multipliers. There are separate multipliers for the decay rate, growth per shot maximum and minimum depending which of four different states you are in: Crouched, moving, sprinting and zoomed. These allow you add things like bonuses for crouching or increase your dispersion after just finishing sprinting. To go along with these state multipliers we have GÇ£Growth Rate Below MinimumGÇ¥, which increases your dispersion by a certain amount per second when itGÇÖs below the minimum dispersion. An example of this would be if you start sprinting, your dispersion will increase to the new minimum based on the minimum sprinting state multiplier (which for the Assault Rifle is x5, or 3.75 degrees) at a speed of 3 degrees per second. Decaying from a dispersion value above your current maximum dispersion occurs at the normal dispersion decay rate. So thatGÇÖs dispersion. Keep in mind that dispersion is only one part of accuracy, along with kick and weapon range. Hopefully you now have a better understanding of how it works in DUST. CCP Logibro // Patron Saint of Logistics // Distributor of Nanites (a¦á_a¦á)

Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 4036	Posted - 2014.10.07 18:26:00 - [2] - Quote What is this? Facts? Numbers? Details? I expect my game mechanics vague and obscure, Logibro! :D CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3157	Posted - 2014.10.07 18:28:00 - [3] - Quote Cannot, resist, urge, to, +1 See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 3589	Posted - 2014.10.07 18:42:00 - [4] - Quote A mighty +1 for you Logibro. I eagerly await this... CCP Logibro wrote: Keep in mind that dispersion is only one part of accuracy, along with kick and weapon range. Hopefully you now have a better understanding of how it works in DUST. My advice to you, playa...
Darrius Smithmage 14	Posted - 2014.10.07 18:43:00 - [5] - Quote Z platoon merc z fleet fc I'm not just role playing I'm here to take calderi prime back by force!
Kevall Longstride DUST University Ivy League 1721	Posted - 2014.10.07 19:17:00 - [6] - Quote My synapses are melting..... CPM 1 member CEO of DUST University Vist dustcpm.com
iKILLu osborne ripley's believe it or die 389	Posted - 2014.10.07 19:30:00 - [7] - Quote hmm there is a lot of testing to be done (damn you i was gonna retire) :( lp cal scout i demand it
matsumoto yuichi san The Elite Few Inc. The Methodical Alliance 60	Posted - 2014.10.07 19:43:00 - [8] - Quote ok in the table it gives dispersion numbers for the ASCR but the curve on the chart, and the data shows it being constant, along with the ARR, this seems wrong, mostly because it certainly seems to go up, but just my opinion :P

CCP Logibro C C P C C P Alliance 9397	Posted - 2014.10.07 19:45:00 - [9] - Quote matsumoto yuichi san wrote: ok in the table it gives dispersion numbers for the ASCR but the curve on the chart, and the data shows it being constant, along with the ARR, this seems wrong, mostly because it certainly seems to go up, but just my opinion :P As noted, the numbers you see are for stationary firing. Movement adds some multipliers that cause an increase to growth and min/max and a decrease to decay. CCP Logibro // Patron Saint of Logistics // Distributor of Nanites (a¦á_a¦á)

Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command 761	Posted - 2014.10.07 19:45:00 - [10] - Quote Wonderful idea. I very much hope this becomes a series. That way we can start giving you much better feedback on the handling of the guns, which is one of the areas Dust doesn't do very well. CCP Logibro wrote: There are also some other numbers that affect dispersion we havenGÇÖt gone over yet. The first is the Zoomed Dispersion Multiplier. This increases or decreases the dispersion when looking down the sights of a weapon. Most rifles have this set to 0 Does anyone else agree that this shouldn't be the case? A bullet-hose shouldn't become a laser if aimed down sights. The AR is particularly at fault for this. I can see the reasoning: The sight should show you where the bullets go. I guess we just need horizontal recoil.


CCP Logibro C C P C C P Alliance 9397	Posted - 2014.10.07 19:47:00 - [11] - Quote Stefan Stahl wrote: Wonderful idea. I very much hope this becomes a series. That way we can start giving you much better feedback on the handling of the guns, which is one of the areas Dust doesn't do very well. CCP Logibro wrote: There are also some other numbers that affect dispersion we havenGÇÖt gone over yet. The first is the Zoomed Dispersion Multiplier. This increases or decreases the dispersion when looking down the sights of a weapon. Most rifles have this set to 0 Does anyone else agree that this shouldn't be the case? A bullet-hose shouldn't become a laser if aimed down sights. The AR is particularly at fault for this. I can see the reasoning: The sight should show you where the bullets go. I guess we just need horizontal recoil. Recoil/kick is a different part of the equation. If this continues that will be one of the other topics that I'll go over. CCP Logibro // Patron Saint of Logistics // Distributor of Nanites (a¦á_a¦á)

Vell0cet Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 2344	Posted - 2014.10.07 20:36:00 - [12] - Quote Just to clarify, a bullet's trajectory is randomly determined with any value within the limits of the current dispersion? In other words, if I fire 30 rounds and have max dispersion, it's possible for all rounds to randomly be very close to center based on a random number generator, or are the shots guaranteed to vary by the maximum number of degrees from center? Best PvE idea ever!
Francois Sanchez What The French Red Whines. 117	Posted - 2014.10.07 21:08:00 - [13] - Quote Nice thanks. Now I know why you would want to crouch when not using a sniper or hidding behind something
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 18033	Posted - 2014.10.07 21:25:00 - [14] - Quote Oh wow. This makes me very happy. Excuse me whilst I go and swim in numbers. The forums have ruined me.
Bright Cloud Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 393	Posted - 2014.10.07 21:46:00 - [15] - Quote Erm no offense but was this really worth a post? Every 1 knows the longer you fire the less accurate your gun becomes. Or aswell moving makes your hip fire worse. It would have beeing more interesting to see how heat build up and damage increase works on laser rifles for example. Bright is the opposite of dark! Who would have thought of that?!
Jebus McKing lol Proto 743	Posted - 2014.10.07 22:26:00 - [16] - Quote Eh. I really appreciate the effort and you can have all my +1 for this post and it is very informative and all. But I feel that your precious dev time is needed elsewhere. Not Haerr's alt. // Closed beta vet. // @JebusMcKing
Terry Webber Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 447	Posted - 2014.10.07 22:30:00 - [17] - Quote An interesting read. I would definitely love to read more threads like this. A better informed community means better feedback to make a better game.
Fizzer XCIV Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 418	Posted - 2014.10.07 22:41:00 - [18] - Quote Holy Christ. I love the fact that you guys are sharing this info, but that link was a nightmare. It opened at least 50 tabs on my browser (chrome), and just kept on opening them. I spent a good 5 minutes just trying to close them faster than it would open new ones... I would LOVE to get access to the info though. Is there some chance that somebody could make a spreadsheet of it? I'll give whoever does a hug.

CCP Logibro C C P C C P Alliance 9412	Posted - 2014.10.07 22:42:00 - [19] - Quote Vell0cet wrote: Just to clarify, a bullet's trajectory is randomly determined with any value within the limits of the current dispersion? In other words, if I fire 30 rounds and have max dispersion, it's possible for all rounds to randomly be very close to center based on a random number generator, or are the shots guaranteed to vary by the maximum number of degrees from center? I'm pretty sure it places it somewhere in the cone (otherwise you could never fire a shot straight), but I can't remember what it uses to place it in the cone off the top of my head. I'll have to dig into it later. Fizzer XCIV wrote: Holy Christ. I love the fact that you guys are sharing this info, but that link was a nightmare. It opened at least 50 tabs on my browser (chrome), and just kept on opening them. I spent a good 5 minutes just trying to close them faster than it would open new ones... That sounds really strange, should be just a file download. Maybe your browser was freaking out due to it being a Macro Enabled Excel sheet, I'll zip it up and reupload it tomorrow when I'm in the office. CCP Logibro // Patron Saint of Logistics // Distributor of Nanites (a¦á_a¦á)

Fizzer XCIV Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 419	Posted - 2014.10.07 22:51:00 - [20] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: Vell0cet wrote: Just to clarify, a bullet's trajectory is randomly determined with any value within the limits of the current dispersion? In other words, if I fire 30 rounds and have max dispersion, it's possible for all rounds to randomly be very close to center based on a random number generator, or are the shots guaranteed to vary by the maximum number of degrees from center? I'm pretty sure it places it somewhere in the cone (otherwise you could never fire a shot straight), but I can't remember what it uses to place it in the cone off the top of my head. I'll have to dig into it later. Fizzer XCIV wrote: Holy Christ. I love the fact that you guys are sharing this info, but that link was a nightmare. It opened at least 50 tabs on my browser (chrome), and just kept on opening them. I spent a good 5 minutes just trying to close them faster than it would open new ones... That sounds really strange, should be just a file download. Maybe your browser was freaking out due to it being a Macro Enabled Excel sheet, I'll zip it up and reupload it tomorrow when I'm in the office. Thank you!

J4yne C0bb Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 864	Posted - 2014.10.08 00:45:00 - [21] - Quote First of all, thanks very much, I enjoyed the read. CCP Logibro wrote: Most rifles have this set to 0, meaning that they have no dispersion when looking down the weaponGÇÖs sights. The HMG has this set to 1, which means that it has the same dispersion when zoomed as when aiming from the hip. Lastly, we have the state multipliers. There are separate multipliers for the decay rate, growth per shot maximum and minimum depending which of four different states you are in: Crouched, moving, sprinting and zoomed. These allow you add things like bonuses for crouching or increase your dispersion after just finishing sprinting. To go along with these state multipliers we have GÇ£Growth Rate Below MinimumGÇ¥, which increases your dispersion by a certain amount per second when itGÇÖs below the minimum dispersion. An example of this would be if you start sprinting, your dispersion will increase to the new minimum based on the minimum sprinting state multiplier (which for the Assault Rifle is x5, or 3.75 degrees) at a speed of 3 degrees per second. Decaying from a dispersion value above your current maximum dispersion occurs at the normal dispersion decay rate. Very interesting. So if I'm interpreting correctly, zooming in on far-off targets with the HMG to try and decrease dispersion has absolutely no effect, other than whatever benefit is gained in order to track the enemy in your reticle? I ask because ADSing with the HMG has a slightly longer animation than with other weapons, and being in ADS has a detrimental effect on your peripheral vision -- I'm sure I've died more than once because of that. Also, since I'm always running as a fatboy, I should refrain running over to enemy heavies and start blasting -- whenever possible, I should let that dude come to me instead? Min Logi \| aka Punch R0ckgroin, fatman
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 9691	Posted - 2014.10.08 03:27:00 - [22] - Quote OMG LOGIBRO! Why did you assault my brain with all these numbers? Is this how the hamsters are tortured? Anyways, thank you so much for posting this. This should clear up a lot of things. :) On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Kaughst Nyain San General Tso's Alliance 628	Posted - 2014.10.08 03:53:00 - [23] - Quote Hold on...going off topic for a second, I don't understand how a submachine gets almost no recoil when fired in short bursts...shouldn't the recoil keep going upwards a fair amount even when not in a non automatic rate. You know you have at least thought about cow tipping. They know, and they're out to settle the score.
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 216	Posted - 2014.10.08 08:57:00 - [24] - Quote Thank yu very much Logibro, i'm not a numbers guy but that was very informative and a good way of reaching out toward hit s hard headed community (my self included) Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
Fizzer XCIV Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 422	Posted - 2014.10.08 09:06:00 - [25] - Quote Thank you for fixing it! Much appreciated. I never knew the ARR had no effective recoil.
Fizzer XCIV Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 422	Posted - 2014.10.08 09:07:00 - [26] - Quote Doublepost...
Aeon Amadi Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 6629	Posted - 2014.10.08 10:09:00 - [27] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: What is this? Facts? Numbers? Details? I expect my game mechanics vague and obscure, Logibro! :D While it is interesting, it's certainly not as useful as seeing things like data pulled usage of certain modules as we frequently see in Eve Online. We hear this vague concept of 'data' constantly whenever it's being referred to in balancing but for all we (the players) know, it might as well have just been made up to support an argument. We don't see charts or spreadsheets showing all the information of how much 'x' weapon is used compared to 'y' weapon, let alone suit types - which would be particularly handy in the eventuality that we ever have an argument of say, one particular module (Armor Plates) being used on one particular suit-type (Scouts) as opposed to another suit-type (Assaults) and the effectiveness there-in. Clearly, CCP has this data as they frequently mention it whenever the need to establish an argument for any seemingly justifiable reason that one can be gullible enough to immediately accept as fact . The flaw here is that, without evidence, numbers, rhyme, or reason to support the mention of said data... There's no reason for us to actually believe it. Based on the data I've seen, I have a kill/death ratio of somewhere in the 10,000 / 1 range. I've also got 125% accuracy. But you can't possibly know that because I'm not supplying any hardcore evidence that this data is anything more than a frivolous allegation. I hate to sound like I'm being a ***** about it but, really, what CCP considers justifiable reasoning in data might be completely different to what the community thinks. { \| bittervetmode = 1 I } == Description == This player has reached their breaking point [[Category: Angry]]
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 7832	Posted - 2014.10.08 10:18:00 - [28] - Quote Logic! And for once I'm not using this to be sarcastic towards CCP. This is mathematical! See you space cowboy...

CCP Logibro C C P C C P Alliance 9428	Posted - 2014.10.08 10:45:00 - [29] - Quote J4yne C0bb wrote: First of all, thanks very much, I enjoyed the read. CCP Logibro wrote: Most rifles have this set to 0, meaning that they have no dispersion when looking down the weaponGÇÖs sights. The HMG has this set to 1, which means that it has the same dispersion when zoomed as when aiming from the hip. Lastly, we have the state multipliers. There are separate multipliers for the decay rate, growth per shot maximum and minimum depending which of four different states you are in: Crouched, moving, sprinting and zoomed. These allow you add things like bonuses for crouching or increase your dispersion after just finishing sprinting. To go along with these state multipliers we have GÇ£Growth Rate Below MinimumGÇ¥, which increases your dispersion by a certain amount per second when itGÇÖs below the minimum dispersion. An example of this would be if you start sprinting, your dispersion will increase to the new minimum based on the minimum sprinting state multiplier (which for the Assault Rifle is x5, or 3.75 degrees) at a speed of 3 degrees per second. Decaying from a dispersion value above your current maximum dispersion occurs at the normal dispersion decay rate. Very interesting. So if I'm interpreting correctly, zooming in on far-off targets with the HMG to try and decrease dispersion has absolutely no effect, other than whatever benefit is gained in order to track the enemy in your reticle? I ask because ADSing with the HMG has a slightly longer animation than with other weapons, and being in ADS has a detrimental effect on your peripheral vision -- I'm sure I've died more than once because of that. Also, since I'm always running as a fatboy, I should refrain running over to enemy heavies and start blasting -- whenever possible, I should let that dude come to me instead? No. While there is an overall modifier for dispersion while zoomed through the Zoomed Dispersion Multiplier, there is also a state multiplier for weapons while zoomed that allows more granular control. For the HMG for example, while zoomed you have a 0.9 and 0.8 multiplier to max and min dispersion, but no change to shot growth or decay. Additionally, I would like to again iterate that dispersion is not the same as recoil (otherwise referred to as kick). These are two different systems that work at the same time. Dispersion makes bullets land in a cone around where you're aiming, kick moves where you're actually aiming. CCP Logibro // Patron Saint of Logistics // Distributor of Nanites (a¦á_a¦á)

DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS VP Gaming Alliance 567	Posted - 2014.10.08 10:57:00 - [30] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: J4yne C0bb wrote: First of all, thanks very much, I enjoyed the read. CCP Logibro wrote: Most rifles have this set to 0, meaning that they have no dispersion when looking down the weaponGÇÖs sights. The HMG has this set to 1, which means that it has the same dispersion when zoomed as when aiming from the hip. Lastly, we have the state multipliers. There are separate multipliers for the decay rate, growth per shot maximum and minimum depending which of four different states you are in: Crouched, moving, sprinting and zoomed. These allow you add things like bonuses for crouching or increase your dispersion after just finishing sprinting. To go along with these state multipliers we have GÇ£Growth Rate Below MinimumGÇ¥, which increases your dispersion by a certain amount per second when itGÇÖs below the minimum dispersion. An example of this would be if you start sprinting, your dispersion will increase to the new minimum based on the minimum sprinting state multiplier (which for the Assault Rifle is x5, or 3.75 degrees) at a speed of 3 degrees per second. Decaying from a dispersion value above your current maximum dispersion occurs at the normal dispersion decay rate. Very interesting. So if I'm interpreting correctly, zooming in on far-off targets with the HMG to try and decrease dispersion has absolutely no effect, other than whatever benefit is gained in order to track the enemy in your reticle? I ask because ADSing with the HMG has a slightly longer animation than with other weapons, and being in ADS has a detrimental effect on your peripheral vision -- I'm sure I've died more than once because of that. Also, since I'm always running as a fatboy, I should refrain running over to enemy heavies and start blasting -- whenever possible, I should let that dude come to me instead? No. While there is an overall modifier for dispersion while zoomed through the Zoomed Dispersion Multiplier, there is also a state multiplier for weapons while zoomed that allows more granular control. For the HMG for example, while zoomed you have a 0.9 and 0.8 multiplier to max and min dispersion, but no change to shot growth or decay. Additionally, I would like to again iterate that dispersion is not the same as recoil (otherwise referred to as kick). These are two different systems that work at the same time. Dispersion makes bullets land in a cone around where you're aiming, kick moves where you're actually aiming. is there a mechanic in place for reducing dispersion? what state offers the least dispersion and most dispersion? is there a method to reduce kick? if both dispersion and recoil play a role in over all accuracy, what would be the best way to improve overall accuracy?


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 8513	Posted - 2014.10.08 11:53:00 - [31] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: What is this? Facts? Numbers? Details? I expect my game mechanics vague and obscure, Logibro! :D While it is interesting, it's certainly not as useful as seeing things like data pulled usage of certain modules as we frequently see in Eve Online. We hear this vague concept of 'data' constantly whenever it's being referred to in balancing but for all we (the players) know, it might as well have just been made up to support an argument. We don't see charts or spreadsheets showing all the information of how much 'x' weapon is used compared to 'y' weapon, let alone suit types - which would be particularly handy in the eventuality that we ever have an argument of say, one particular module (Armor Plates) being used on one particular suit-type (Scouts) as opposed to another suit-type (Assaults) and the effectiveness there-in. Clearly, CCP has this data as they frequently mention it whenever the need to establish an argument for any seemingly justifiable reason that one can be gullible enough to immediately accept as fact . The flaw here is that, without evidence, numbers, rhyme, or reason to support the mention of said data... There's no reason for us to actually believe it. Based on the data I've seen, I have a kill/death ratio of somewhere in the 10,000 / 1 range. I've also got 125% accuracy. But you can't possibly know that because I'm not supplying any hardcore evidence that this data is anything more than a frivolous allegation. I hate to sound like I'm being a ***** about it but, really, what CCP considers justifiable reasoning in data might be completely different to what the community thinks. 1) CCP has data 2) CCP doesn't have any data Let's give CCP the benefit of the doubt, and state that 1) is true. Then we have 3) The data says one thing and CCP lies to the community, under no duress, to provide a cover story for a change CCP wants to implement 4) The data says one thing and CCP tells the truth to the community, and then attempts to use the data to improve the situation For every crime, there must be a motive. What is CCP's motive (or frankly mine) to do 3)? Especially when, since you linked to the Bolt Pistol discussion, CCP states that the data is in full correlation with what the community thinks (BP is OP) and uses that fact to fix the situation via a Bolt Pistol ROF nerf? "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Logibro C C P C C P Alliance 9428	Posted - 2014.10.08 11:54:00 - [32] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: CCP Logibro wrote: No. While there is an overall modifier for dispersion while zoomed through the Zoomed Dispersion Multiplier, there is also a state multiplier for weapons while zoomed that allows more granular control. For the HMG for example, while zoomed you have a 0.9 and 0.8 multiplier to max and min dispersion, but no change to shot growth or decay. Additionally, I would like to again iterate that dispersion is not the same as recoil (otherwise referred to as kick). These are two different systems that work at the same time. Dispersion makes bullets land in a cone around where you're aiming, kick moves where you're actually aiming. is there a mechanic in place for reducing dispersion? what state offers the least dispersion and most dispersion? is there a method to reduce kick? if both dispersion and recoil play a role in over all accuracy, what would be the best way to improve overall accuracy? In general, being crouched while stationary will result in the best accuracy, while firing directly after sprinting while still moving will result in the worst accuracy. CCP Logibro // Patron Saint of Logistics // Distributor of Nanites (a¦á_a¦á)

Echo 1991 WarRavens Capital Punishment. 477	Posted - 2014.10.08 12:07:00 - [33] - Quote loving the data and the graph, but it really shows that the gallente assault bonus should be changed.
FraggerMike G.R.A.V.E INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS 255	Posted - 2014.10.08 12:37:00 - [34] - Quote I like this idea. Hope it grows into much more. C.E.O. of G.R.A.V.E Battles on Youtube channel: G.R.A.V.E
Aeon Amadi Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 6632	Posted - 2014.10.08 12:44:00 - [35] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: What is this? Facts? Numbers? Details? I expect my game mechanics vague and obscure, Logibro! :D While it is interesting, it's certainly not as useful as seeing things like data pulled usage of certain modules as we frequently see in Eve Online. We hear this vague concept of 'data' constantly whenever it's being referred to in balancing but for all we (the players) know, it might as well have just been made up to support an argument. We don't see charts or spreadsheets showing all the information of how much 'x' weapon is used compared to 'y' weapon, let alone suit types - which would be particularly handy in the eventuality that we ever have an argument of say, one particular module (Armor Plates) being used on one particular suit-type (Scouts) as opposed to another suit-type (Assaults) and the effectiveness there-in. Clearly, CCP has this data as they frequently mention it whenever the need to establish an argument for any seemingly justifiable reason that one can be gullible enough to immediately accept as fact . The flaw here is that, without evidence, numbers, rhyme, or reason to support the mention of said data... There's no reason for us to actually believe it. Based on the data I've seen, I have a kill/death ratio of somewhere in the 10,000 / 1 range. I've also got 125% accuracy. But you can't possibly know that because I'm not supplying any hardcore evidence that this data is anything more than a frivolous allegation. I hate to sound like I'm being a ***** about it but, really, what CCP considers justifiable reasoning in data might be completely different to what the community thinks. 1) CCP has data 2) CCP doesn't have any data Let's give CCP the benefit of the doubt, and state that 1) is true. Then we have 3) The data says one thing and CCP lies to the community, under no duress, to provide a cover story for a change CCP wants to implement 4) The data says one thing and CCP tells the truth to the community, and then attempts to use the data to improve the situation For every crime, there must be a motive. What is CCP's motive (or frankly mine) to do 3)? Especially when, since you linked to the Bolt Pistol discussion, CCP states that the data is in full correlation with what the community thinks (BP is OP) and uses that fact to fix the situation via a Bolt Pistol ROF nerf? I'm not disputing that there are instances in which the data supports what the community thinks and I'm not questioning that you [CCP] are being truthful with what you are saying. I am questioning the reasonable grounds for what can be considered a justifiable course of action on the data provided. Is it overwhelming evidence or a slightly higher than intended amount? A good example would be here: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2327229#post2327229 In that particular case, we're supposed to assume that you had irrefutable evidence that provided grounds for this assumption with little to no knowledge of how you made the correlation with said 'data', which for all we know could have been as nebulous as saying that 'Caldari Commandos are used a lot - we're talking about shield modules - it just so happens that Caldari Commandos use Sniper Rifles (a good candidate for their racial bonus) a lot. Thereby, Caldari Commandos + Sniper Rifle = Redline Sniper.' You see where I'm going with this? It's not that I'm questioning the validity of your statements, just that I think we (the players) should be able to see the same data you're looking at so we can draw our own conclusions and provide our own input/feedback rather than just taking your word for it. Not that there's anything wrong with that. I'm a skeptic, after all. { \| bittervetmode = 1 I } == Description == This player has reached their breaking point [[Category: Angry]]
sabre prime Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 590	Posted - 2014.10.08 13:42:00 - [36] - Quote The only thing I learnt from this article was: CCP loves numbers. Interesting to read how all the hidden mechanics work though. There are a lot of parameters that can be adjusted behiind the scenes. Also, why do you bother having a mechanic like 'dispersion decay'? Is it to model some kind of inertial force when firing a gun? The slow blade penetrates the shield.
Vell0cet Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 2346	Posted - 2014.10.08 14:33:00 - [37] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: What is this? Facts? Numbers? Details? I expect my game mechanics vague and obscure, Logibro! :D While it is interesting, it's certainly not as useful as seeing things like data pulled usage of certain modules as we frequently see in Eve Online. We hear this vague concept of 'data' constantly whenever it's being referred to in balancing but for all we (the players) know, it might as well have just been made up to support an argument. We don't see charts or spreadsheets showing all the information of how much 'x' weapon is used compared to 'y' weapon, let alone suit types - which would be particularly handy in the eventuality that we ever have an argument of say, one particular module (Armor Plates) being used on one particular suit-type (Scouts) as opposed to another suit-type (Assaults) and the effectiveness there-in. Clearly, CCP has this data as they frequently mention it whenever the need to establish an argument for any seemingly justifiable reason that one can be gullible enough to immediately accept as fact . The flaw here is that, without evidence, numbers, rhyme, or reason to support the mention of said data... There's no reason for us to actually believe it. Based on the data I've seen, I have a kill/death ratio of somewhere in the 10,000 / 1 range. I've also got 125% accuracy. But you can't possibly know that because I'm not supplying any hardcore evidence that this data is anything more than a frivolous allegation. I hate to sound like I'm being a ***** about it but, really, what CCP considers justifiable reasoning in data might be completely different to what the community thinks. 1) CCP has data 2) CCP doesn't have any data Let's give CCP the benefit of the doubt, and state that 1) is true. Then we have 3) The data says one thing and CCP lies to the community, under no duress, to provide a cover story for a change CCP wants to implement 4) The data says one thing and CCP tells the truth to the community, and then attempts to use the data to improve the situation For every crime, there must be a motive. What is CCP's motive (or frankly mine) to do 3)? Especially when, since you linked to the Bolt Pistol discussion, CCP states that the data is in full correlation with what the community thinks (BP is OP) and uses that fact to fix the situation via a Bolt Pistol ROF nerf? I'll go with 4. Although, it'd be nice if you guys shared more numbers. I get that certain numbers like quantity of active players may be something that you can't reveal for business reasons. In these cases, just show us the values as percentages, or otherwise normalized to protect the info you need to while still making it clear why changes need to be made. E.g. I keep hearing that the ADS stats were really out of balance which is why they were tweaked as much as they were. I think if we had seen numbers like the average ISK efficiency of ADS pIlots, it might have made the QQ much less severe. This number wouldn't reveal anything you guys would need to keep under wraps for business purposes, and it would be helpful to be open about this kind of stat for balance purposes. Best PvE idea ever!
CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 1922	Posted - 2014.10.08 15:25:00 - [38] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: What is this? Facts? Numbers? Details? I expect my game mechanics vague and obscure, Logibro! :D While it is interesting, it's certainly not as useful as seeing things like data pulled usage of certain modules as we frequently see in Eve Online. We hear this vague concept of 'data' constantly whenever it's being referred to in balancing but for all we (the players) know, it might as well have just been made up to support an argument. We don't see charts or spreadsheets showing all the information of how much 'x' weapon is used compared to 'y' weapon, let alone suit types - which would be particularly handy in the eventuality that we ever have an argument of say, one particular module (Armor Plates) being used on one particular suit-type (Scouts) as opposed to another suit-type (Assaults) and the effectiveness there-in. Clearly, CCP has this data as they frequently mention it whenever the need to establish an argument for any seemingly justifiable reason that one can be gullible enough to immediately accept as fact . The flaw here is that, without evidence, numbers, rhyme, or reason to support the mention of said data... There's no reason for us to actually believe it. Based on the data I've seen, I have a kill/death ratio of somewhere in the 10,000 / 1 range. I've also got 125% accuracy. But you can't possibly know that because I'm not supplying any hardcore evidence that this data is anything more than a frivolous allegation. I hate to sound like I'm being a *** about it but, really, what CCP considers justifiable reasoning in data might be completely different to what the community thinks. 1) CCP has data 2) CCP doesn't have any data Let's give CCP the benefit of the doubt, and state that 1) is true. Then we have 3) The data says one thing and CCP lies to the community, under no duress, to provide a cover story for a change CCP wants to implement 4) The data says one thing and CCP tells the truth to the community, and then attempts to use the data to improve the situation For every crime, there must be a motive. What is CCP's motive (or frankly mine) to do 3)? Especially when, since you linked to the Bolt Pistol discussion, CCP states that the data is in full correlation with what the community thinks (BP is OP) and uses that fact to fix the situation via a Bolt Pistol ROF nerf? Diddums. I know you sneaky prawns have ulterior motives! Sneaky fackin' prawns! "I'll shoot de pig but I wunt shoot de fackin' prawn" /Sarcasm plus a little District 9 "Also I think knives are a good idea, big fk-off shiny ones" "Guns for show, Knives for a pro" MY LIFE FOR AIUR!

CCP Logibro C C P C C P Alliance 9432	Posted - 2014.10.08 15:28:00 - [39] - Quote sabre prime wrote: The only thing I learnt from this article was: CCP loves numbers. Interesting to read how all the hidden mechanics work though. There are a lot of parameters that can be adjusted behiind the scenes. Also, why do you bother having a mechanic like 'dispersion decay'? Is it to model some kind of inertial force when firing a gun? If we didn't have dispersion decay, then there would be no way for dispersion to decrease. Effectively as you fired your gun, it would get more and more inaccurate the more you fired it without any means to recover accuracy. The reason we have a curve is so that we can choose to have dispersion decay (recover could be an accurate term to replace it) faster or slower if you're got higher dispersion. Just gives us more control of how the weapon handles. CCP Logibro // Patron Saint of Logistics // Distributor of Nanites (a¦á_a¦á)


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 8518	Posted - 2014.10.08 15:38:00 - [40] - Quote The overheating of barrels in real life makes shots behave less predictably, i.e. have more spread or dispersion. In a scifi world one might theorize that this is happening, and dispersion decay a factor of mechanisms cooling the barrel. Just a thought. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4499	Posted - 2014.10.08 15:38:00 - [41] - Quote J4yne C0bb wrote: First of all, thanks very much, I enjoyed the read. CCP Logibro wrote: Most rifles have this set to 0, meaning that they have no dispersion when looking down the weaponGÇÖs sights. The HMG has this set to 1, which means that it has the same dispersion when zoomed as when aiming from the hip. Lastly, we have the state multipliers. There are separate multipliers for the decay rate, growth per shot maximum and minimum depending which of four different states you are in: Crouched, moving, sprinting and zoomed. These allow you add things like bonuses for crouching or increase your dispersion after just finishing sprinting. To go along with these state multipliers we have GÇ£Growth Rate Below MinimumGÇ¥, which increases your dispersion by a certain amount per second when itGÇÖs below the minimum dispersion. An example of this would be if you start sprinting, your dispersion will increase to the new minimum based on the minimum sprinting state multiplier (which for the Assault Rifle is x5, or 3.75 degrees) at a speed of 3 degrees per second. Decaying from a dispersion value above your current maximum dispersion occurs at the normal dispersion decay rate. Very interesting. So if I'm interpreting correctly, zooming in on far-off targets with the HMG to try and decrease dispersion has absolutely no effect, other than whatever benefit is gained in order to track the enemy in your reticle? I ask because ADSing with the HMG has a slightly longer animation than with other weapons, and being in ADS has a detrimental effect on your peripheral vision -- I'm sure I've died more than once because of that. Also, since I'm always running as a fatboy, I should refrain running over to enemy heavies and start blasting -- whenever possible, I should let that dude come to me instead? I believe that squatting reduces Dispersion on the HMG. ADS is useful for adjusting your tracking speed when shooting more distant or slow moving targets. Also it may reduce kick (We will have to wait for his next article to find out for sure). Another reason to get the other Heavy to come to you is that it takes a significant fraction of a second to get your HMG leveled and ready to fire again after a sprint. Also, the Burst HMG now acts like a normal rifle in that it starts accurate and dispersion increases as you fire. (Delta change I think.) Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4499	Posted - 2014.10.08 15:46:00 - [42] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: loving the data and the graph, but it really shows that the gallente assault bonus should be changed. How can you come to that conclusion based on this data? The spreadsheet provides no information about Kick (recoil), which is much more of a factor with the Plasma Rifles. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Echo 1991 WarRavens Capital Punishment. 480	Posted - 2014.10.08 15:55:00 - [43] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: loving the data and the graph, but it really shows that the gallente assault bonus should be changed. How can you come to that conclusion based on this data? The spreadsheet provides no information about Kick (recoil), which is much more of a factor with the Plasma Rifles. Kick is not lowered. Dispersion is. And the data shows that dispersion on the assault rifle isn't high so why have a bonus that lowers an already small value?
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4499	Posted - 2014.10.08 15:57:00 - [44] - Quote A topic I would like to see you add to the series is weapon weights. Specifically, how long of a delay is there after you come out of a Sprint or throw a grenade, before you can fire your weapon. This delay is significant for the HMG, and I seem to remember it being fairly significant for the Shotgun as well, while it is negligible for very light (low mass) weapons such as sidearms. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.

CCP Logibro C C P C C P Alliance 9434	Posted - 2014.10.08 16:44:00 - [45] - Quote Echo 1991 wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: loving the data and the graph, but it really shows that the gallente assault bonus should be changed. How can you come to that conclusion based on this data? The spreadsheet provides no information about Kick (recoil), which is much more of a factor with the Plasma Rifles. Kick is not lowered. Dispersion is. And the data shows that dispersion on the assault rifle isn't high so why have a bonus that lowers an already small value? Keep in mind the values you see are for firing while stationary. Movement adds state multipliers that increase dispersion. CCP Logibro // Patron Saint of Logistics // Distributor of Nanites (a¦á_a¦á)

Echo 1991 WarRavens Capital Punishment. 480	Posted - 2014.10.08 17:13:00 - [46] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: loving the data and the graph, but it really shows that the gallente assault bonus should be changed. How can you come to that conclusion based on this data? The spreadsheet provides no information about Kick (recoil), which is much more of a factor with the Plasma Rifles. Kick is not lowered. Dispersion is. And the data shows that dispersion on the assault rifle isn't high so why have a bonus that lowers an already small value? Keep in mind the values you see are for firing while stationary. Movement adds state multipliers that increase dispersion. I totally get that. I just think that the bonus is rather pointless as the weapon is pretty accurate as it is.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3489	Posted - 2014.10.08 21:32:00 - [47] - Quote Dammit Rattati quit making me like you more. That's just wrong and results in tears... ...From everyone else.
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS VP Gaming Alliance 568	Posted - 2014.10.09 00:38:00 - [48] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: Echo 1991 wrote: loving the data and the graph, but it really shows that the gallente assault bonus should be changed. How can you come to that conclusion based on this data? The spreadsheet provides no information about Kick (recoil), which is much more of a factor with the Plasma Rifles. Kick is not lowered. Dispersion is. And the data shows that dispersion on the assault rifle isn't high so why have a bonus that lowers an already small value? Keep in mind the values you see are for firing while stationary. Movement adds state multipliers that increase dispersion. I'd love to see the numbers for the different state. I'm sure it's a ton of work though :(
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 2255	Posted - 2014.10.09 13:05:00 - [49] - Quote +1 Logibro. More content and context like this and someday we may all speak the same language on our forums. PSN: RationalSpark
Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command 764	Posted - 2014.10.09 16:39:00 - [50] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: Keep in mind the values you see are for firing while stationary. Movement adds state multipliers that increase dispersion. Gallente aren't about strafing while shooting. Minmatar are. An armor stacked Gallente won't strafe a lot because he'll be slow at it. He'd use his armor pool to soak up damage while out-DPSing his target. A typical Gallente would gain much more from a speedier recovery of dispersion from sprinting, since he'll have to sprint everywhere due to his armor penalty. But then the recovery from sprint is so fast that it's no issue anyways. I'm aware that this is sort of offtopic, but I'm trying to demonstrate how these stats can be used to improve the racial affiliation of the rifles.

Kensai Dragon DUST University Ivy League 9	Posted - 2014.10.09 19:02:00 - [51] - Quote +1! Thank you, I would love to see more of this. Understanding the mechanics behind it all makes the game more enjoyable, and allows us to understand how and why to make adjustments when needed. Please keep up the good work!
sabre prime Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 600	Posted - 2014.10.09 19:43:00 - [52] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: sabre prime wrote: The only thing I learnt from this article was: CCP loves numbers. Interesting to read how all the hidden mechanics work though. There are a lot of parameters that can be adjusted behiind the scenes. Also, why do you bother having a mechanic like 'dispersion decay'? Is it to model some kind of inertial force when firing a gun? If we didn't have dispersion decay, then there would be no way for dispersion to decrease. Effectively as you fired your gun, it would get more and more inaccurate the more you fired it without any means to recover accuracy. The reason we have a curve is so that we can choose to have dispersion decay (recover could be an accurate term to replace it) faster or slower if you're got higher dispersion. Just gives us more control of how the weapon handles. Thanks for the reply. Interesting to learn. So when we stop firing does dispersion automatically reset to the base value, or is the dispersion decay 'rate' still in effect? I would expect a gun to get more inaccurate the more it's fired. To recover accuracy, just stop firing and then start again? The slow blade penetrates the shield.

CCP Logibro C C P C C P Alliance 9462	Posted - 2014.10.09 20:53:00 - [53] - Quote sabre prime wrote: CCP Logibro wrote: sabre prime wrote: The only thing I learnt from this article was: CCP loves numbers. Interesting to read how all the hidden mechanics work though. There are a lot of parameters that can be adjusted behiind the scenes. Also, why do you bother having a mechanic like 'dispersion decay'? Is it to model some kind of inertial force when firing a gun? If we didn't have dispersion decay, then there would be no way for dispersion to decrease. Effectively as you fired your gun, it would get more and more inaccurate the more you fired it without any means to recover accuracy. The reason we have a curve is so that we can choose to have dispersion decay (recover could be an accurate term to replace it) faster or slower if you're got higher dispersion. Just gives us more control of how the weapon handles. Thanks for the reply. Interesting to learn. So when we stop firing does dispersion automatically reset to the base value, or is the dispersion decay 'rate' still in effect? I would expect a gun to get more inaccurate the more it's fired. To recover accuracy, just stop firing and then start again? Dispersion decay is always affecting the dispersion value, whether you're firing or not. This means that when you stop firing you recover dispersion quicker; however this is not caused by the decay rate increasing, but by the lack of any growth from the gun firing. So yes, if you want to recover dispersion, you stop firing and wait for it to recover. The dispersion doesn't instantly recover, but it usually takes less than a second for most rifles. As pointed out in the OP, another artefact of always having dispersion decay active is that a weapon can actually have a soft cap on it's dispersion below it's hard cap. You'll notice that none of the rifles or the SMG ever come close to their maximum dispersion. This is due to them reaching an equilibrium point where the rate of dispersion decay gets high enough to equal the rate of growth. CCP Logibro // Patron Saint of Logistics // Distributor of Nanites (a¦á_a¦á)

Foehammerr OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 68	Posted - 2014.10.10 06:13:00 - [54] - Quote Stefan Stahl wrote: Gallente aren't about strafing while shooting. Minmatar are Except they are. Gallente Combat Doctrine is all about balancing speed and armor with drones and blasters at close range. If you Played EVE I'd tell you to go check the ISIS chart and read the description for the Gallente. DUST does most of this. Stefan Stahl wrote: An armor stacked Gallente won't strafe a lot because he'll be slow at it. He'd use his armor pool to soak up damage while out-DPSing his target. A typical Gallente would gain much more from a speedier recovery of dispersion from sprinting, since he'll have to sprint everywhere due to his armor penalty. But then the recovery from sprint is so fast that it's no issue anyways. What you just described was Amarr, not Gallente. If you're stacking plates on a Gallentean Assault, you deserve every death you get because it's completely your fault for hindering yourself. I never EVER stack plates, and neither should you. Stefan Stahl wrote: I'm aware that this is sort of offtopic, but I'm trying to demonstrate how these stats can be used to improve the racial affiliation of the rifles. Besides the fact that the bonus to plasma weapons is perfect and changing the bonus to other things like rof or range would unbalance all Gallente weapons, sure. *Rangers Lead The Way!* Beta Vet since 2/5/2013
Racro 01 Arifistan 501st Knights of Leanbox 425	Posted - 2014.10.10 15:35:00 - [55] - Quote so in theory...... with gall assault 5. ar operation/sharpshooter 5 and ion pistol operation 5 and sharpshooter 5........form hip-fire.....they would be the most accurate weapons in the game......going form actual use here. my gall assault is more accurate than any other suit I throw an ar/ion pistol onto. *Elite Gallenten Soldier*
Hansei Kaizen The Jackson Five 228	Posted - 2014.10.10 18:45:00 - [56] - Quote Very juicy post. I love these little peeks into game development. Gives me as a player the feeling of being taken seriously. Keep it up. The answer to your complaint is PvE. Always. NPE status: (Gò»°Gûí°n+ëGò»n+¦ Gö+GöüGö+ Casual solo
Jathniel G I A N T 1184	Posted - 2014.10.11 09:57:00 - [57] - Quote Any particular reason why it's in .xlsm format? No quick online viewers for that... Whatever. Regular .xls that bad? Set your goals high, and shoot for the moon; even if you miss you'll land amongst the stars.
Jathniel G I A N T 1184	Posted - 2014.10.11 10:00:00 - [58] - Quote Racro 01 Arifistan wrote: so in theory...... with gall assault 5. ar operation/sharpshooter 5 and ion pistol operation 5 and sharpshooter 5........form hip-fire.....they would be the most accurate weapons in the game......going form actual use here. my gall assault is more accurate than any other suit I throw an ar/ion pistol onto. It's actually ALWAYS been this way. The Gallente weapons have always been the best behaved in the game. In particular the AR. That gun is butter smooth in its operation. There's no other gun I take the same pleasure in firing. A Duvolle Assault Rifle with max passives is a work of art, even in the current armor meta. There's nothing like a Gallente AR. I swear by that gun. All this does is confirm it. Set your goals high, and shoot for the moon; even if you miss you'll land amongst the stars.
KA24DERT TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 651	Posted - 2014.10.11 16:20:00 - [59] - Quote How Dispersion Works: A complicated, well engineered formula takes into account your movement, rate of fire, and other variables and increases dispersion as you continue to fire. How Aim Assist Works: A complicated, well engineered formula disregards your movement, rate of fire, and other variables and bends bullets into their targets as long as you continue to fire.
Kane Fyea 2736	Posted - 2014.10.11 20:46:00 - [60] - Quote I haven't posted on here in months (Since like june) but I just had to come and say that this is an awesome thread. I really hope you make more of these. +1 Logibro :)


CCP Logibro C C P C C P Alliance 9472	Posted - 2014.10.12 23:34:00 - [61] - Quote Jathniel wrote: Any particular reason why it's in .xlsm format? No quick online viewers for that... Whatever. Regular .xls that bad? It uses a macro I wrote to calculate the dispersion. I was going to post a version with just the numbers but I thought you guys would want a chance to play around with some numbers (especially since dispersion values have now been added to the SDE). CCP Logibro // Patron Saint of Logistics // Distributor of Nanites (a¦á_a¦á)

KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 1363	Posted - 2014.10.15 13:16:00 - [62] - Quote A HUGE love and thank you for releasing this info! We the players really appreciate this. And guys, go create a separate thread on that racial balance/imbalance. People would enjoy Dust a lot more if they accepted the fact that EVERYTHING is subject to change
Haerr Clone Manque 1653	Posted - 2014.10.19 22:24:00 - [63] - Quote Cool Haerr's huge list of wish for 1.9 - 1.10: * Fix mouse support.
Centurion molokov Zion's Elite 14	Posted - 2014.10.23 13:27:00 - [64] - Quote Help! My brain is melting! Jk its frozen
Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 7071	Posted - 2014.10.24 01:16:00 - [65] - Quote The only thing I have to complain about is the graph having no title and unlabeled axis. What is the Y axis? 2.000 Potatoes? Hertz? My chem teacher would have a field day she would. I got kicked out of the State War Academy for jury-rigging a contact nade launcher to my Rail Rifle WINMATAR!
Imp Smash Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 281	Posted - 2014.10.30 00:26:00 - [66] - Quote Been asking for this kind of thread for a few years now. Damn grateful to have it.
Insane Nutter Insane Cru 0	Posted - 2014.11.02 16:24:00 - [67] - Quote This is fantastic ... more more more
endezeichen grimm Brothers Grimm 666 5	Posted - 2014.11.02 18:55:00 - [68] - Quote What is with the eve players talking ** in the chat all the time? They act like they are better than us just because they pay a monthly fee and play a boring game. Can't they be kept in their own chat and out of our way? Simplify the graphics and make the game run smooth!**
ScI-Iurk Carbon 7 Iron Oxide. 15	Posted - 2014.11.19 06:31:00 - [69] - Quote So how does the, errr , other stuff work?
manboar thunder fist Dead Man's Game RUST415 258	Posted - 2014.11.22 11:36:00 - [70] - Quote Can we have dropsuit usage, weapon usage and weapon damage stats please? Especially HMG/HEAVY. I think they need a spool up, so your fire rate starts slow and gets higher as you heat up. it makes sense given the nature of their "machine rotation gun" as the barrels start spinning faster more damage is dealt but the heat increases because of inter mechanic friction NERF SCOUTS, NERF TANKS, NERF AV, NERF ASSAULTS, NERF LOGIS, NERF HEAVIES nerf life Delta- bye bye ads, bye bye scr



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