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[Request] Reworking Repair Tools

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Atiim 12903	Posted - 2014.10.12 00:21:00 - [31] - Quote Terry Webber wrote: Will the repair tool recharge before the timer runs out and still be usable? If that's true then I might get behind the idea. Stating this might also alleviate any misconceptions people are having. Have you ever used a Cloak Field? It's hard for me to explain verbally, but just think of the recharge mechanic that way. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Catgirl White Mage Nekomimi Paradise 1	Posted - 2014.10.12 06:04:00 - [32] - Quote Atiim wrote: It's hard for me to explain verbally, but just think of the recharge mechanic that way. I'll do it~ The advanced Cloak Field has a Cloak Duration of 30s. When you turn it on, your given 30 seconds before the 'battery' runs dry and your forced out of stealth. However if you manually drop out of Stealth early you can still immediately reactivate Cloak if you have at least 50% of your 'battery' left. So if you Cloak for 10 seconds, then come out, you have 20 seconds left.. which is more than half and you could immediately go back to cloaking. Now. . the Cloak has a recharge time of 15 seconds, meaning it recharges twice as fast as it depletes. What this actually means is that if you drain your battery to zero, you really only need to wait 7.5 seconds before you can cloak again because you'll be 'half-full'. If transplanted to Repair Tools I think it would work fairly well. You could repair here and there a bit and never go under 50% of your battery, so your healing would always be available. If things got really hectic you could fire it up and run the full duration or near full duration, at that point you'd have to wait a few seconds before you got enough to start repairing again. All it would take it balanced numbers and I think it would be an interesting change. Now we just need Logistics Charged Sniper Rifles that lob sticky armor repairing nanite clusters 200m to your allies.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 374	Posted - 2014.10.12 07:29:00 - [33] - Quote Hm... Atiim, sorry bro but I'm a no on this one, as the game is and as proposed. BUT, I could be sold on it IF the numbers were adjusted a bit (yes. Longer beamtimes w/shorter cooldowns) AND if there was a separate mechanic for locking on, then initiating reps. So long as the mechanic works as it does currently, aim-lock-rep basically in one motion I think that in tight quarters under fire the repper would go into cooldown too quickly since the beam jumps to targets on its own. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 1015	Posted - 2014.10.12 16:31:00 - [34] - Quote Atiim wrote: If you don't enjoy reading, then I suggest skipping to the TL;DR. Currently, the only thing required to be successful with a Repair Tools is latch onto an Armor Tanker and hold on for dear life. This doesn't require much thought or user input, and makes things monotonous for those using them. Along with that, Repair Tools favor those with higher HP/s, which makes them inferior to the Focused variants. To solve these issues, I suggest giving them a Capacitor and adjusting their HP/s accordingly. This way, those wielding a Repair Tool would have to decide when or where to use one, but still being effective. Here's an example of what their stats would be: Quote: Normal Repair Tool Uptime: 25s Downtime: 35s Armor Repair Rate: 80HP/s This would be the general purpose Repair Tool. It's HP/s seems a bit much, but it can only restore a total of 6000HP before it needs to recharge, which is enough to heal an entire squad before needing to recharge Flux Repair Tool Uptime: 15s Downtime: 25s Armor Repair Rate: 60HP/s Along with being the long range Repair Tool, it would also have an emphasis on going in an out of engagements quickly. Though with only 2400HP before depletion, using it for squad support isn't recommended. Focused Repair Tool Uptime: 3s Downtime: 30s Armor Repair Rate: 215HP/s This would be the extreme alpha, low duration Repair Tool. It's able to yield incredible amounts of health, but only in short bursts; thus making it ideal for solo play and in situations where you need someone healed quickly. These numbers aren't definitive, but are simply placeholders to show what their purposes would be under my idea. With that in mind, what do you think the stats should be? TL;DR these changes would be the direct opposite of EVE remote repair thus will never happen and should never happen [[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 1 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]]
Atiim 12944	Posted - 2014.10.14 18:45:00 - [35] - Quote You clearly don't play EVE: Online, and that's a poor justification either way. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 1977	Posted - 2014.10.14 19:47:00 - [36] - Quote I think people misunderstood the concept. That, or they haven't actually done as much proper logistics work as they say they have. Regardless it would be extra variables that would make balance an even harder goal to attain for logistics suits. Right now I think we should focus on CCP giving us the repair glow back. Months and months ago I made a thread about the repair glow, I received a dev response saying that they were working on it, well that must have been a blatant lie as here we are a long time later and it has still not been returned. Its things like this that really make me wonder about CCP. They have these great games, great ideas with vast amounts of potential.....and then they just let it slip through their fingers with there inaction and indecisiveness. Come on CCP. Wake up and smell the coffee! "Also I think knives are a good idea, big f**k-off shiny ones" "Guns for show, Knives for a pro" MY LIFE FOR AIUR!
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 385	Posted - 2014.10.14 21:05:00 - [37] - Quote CommanderBolt wrote: I think people misunderstood the concept. That, or they haven't actually done as much proper logistics work as they say they have. Regardless it would be extra variables that would make balance an even harder goal to attain for logistics suits. Right now I think we should focus on CCP giving us the repair glow back. Months and months ago I made a thread about the repair glow, I received a dev response saying that they were working on it, well that must have been a blatant lie as here we are a long time later and it has still not been returned. Its things like this that really make me wonder about CCP. They have these great games, great ideas with vast amounts of potential.....and then they just let it slip through their fingers with there inaction and indecisiveness. Come on CCP. Wake up and smell the coffee! +1 for returning the reptool glow. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 385	Posted - 2014.10.14 21:14:00 - [38] - Quote And nerf scouts. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
Jack 3enimble Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 422	Posted - 2014.10.14 21:19:00 - [39] - Quote Shield reptool to bypass the recharge delay for that other sentinel, you know the shield based Caldari? Wish there was a reptool for my suit...
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 385	Posted - 2014.10.14 23:11:00 - [40] - Quote Jack 3enimble wrote: Shield reptool to bypass the recharge delay for that other sentinel, you know the shield based Caldari? Wish there was a reptool for my suit... That could be a cool, useful to all, buff for the reptool: Have it override shield recharge delay so shield recharge initiates at the beginning of lock on and armor repair. It doesn't rep the shield, but it kickstarts the onboard regen. Whoops, almost forgot. Nerf scouts. All stats. All levels. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.

Atiim 12944	Posted - 2014.10.14 23:11:00 - [41] - Quote Jack 3enimble wrote: Shield reptool to bypass the recharge delay for that other sentinel, you know the shield based Caldari? Wish there was a reptool for my suit... That sounds like a Handheld Shield Booster The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3248	Posted - 2014.10.14 23:43:00 - [42] - Quote Jack 3enimble wrote: Shield reptool to bypass the recharge delay for that other sentinel, you know the shield based Caldari? Wish there was a reptool for my suit... I'm working on that. In fact it is very high on my 'wishlist'. Cheers, Cross See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
Juedfin90 BLACK-GUARD E.B.O.L.A. 5	Posted - 2014.10.20 08:46:00 - [43] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: Jack 3enimble wrote: Shield reptool to bypass the recharge delay for that other sentinel, you know the shield based Caldari? Wish there was a reptool for my suit... I'm working on something like that. In fact having an infantry shield transporter is very high on my 'wishlist'. (I just hope it's doable) Cheers, Cross Yeah cool, but we are waiting so *?=-º$&% long xD maybe 1.9 ? " If you aren´t strong, be smart " citation from Sun Zu´s Book Tactics of War
Atiim 13111	Posted - 2014.10.21 20:52:00 - [44] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: Jack 3enimble wrote: Shield reptool to bypass the recharge delay for that other sentinel, you know the shield based Caldari? Wish there was a reptool for my suit... I'm working on something like that. In fact having an infantry shield transporter is very high on my 'wishlist'. (I just hope it's doable) Cheers, Cross How about for Uprising 1.9? The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Atiim 13135	Posted - 2014.10.22 11:48:00 - [45] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: Hm... Atiim, sorry bro but I'm a no on this one, as the game is and as proposed. BUT, I could be sold on it IF the numbers were adjusted a bit (yes. Longer beamtimes w/shorter cooldowns) AND if there was a separate mechanic for locking on, then initiating reps. So long as the mechanic works as it does currently, aim-lock-rep basically in one motion I think that in tight quarters under fire the repper would go into cooldown too quickly since the beam jumps to targets on its own. The numbers are just placeholders to show how they would function, I wouldn't mind adjusting them. As for sepereate mechanics for locking, I'd say: Tapping R1 stays locked until R1 is double tapped After tapping R1, hold R1 to intiate repair, or Tap & Hold R1 to automatically begin repair We could do the same thing with L1 in the case of dual-beam repair Tools. Though you'll still be able to repair people, even if it went into cooldown. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3404	Posted - 2014.10.22 13:39:00 - [46] - Quote Atiim wrote: If you don't enjoy reading, then I suggest skipping to the TL;DR. Currently, the only thing required to be successful with a Repair Tools is latch onto an Armor Tanker and hold on for dear life. This doesn't require much thought or user input, and makes things monotonous for those using them. Along with that, Repair Tools favor those with higher HP/s, which makes them inferior to the Focused variants. To solve these issues, I suggest giving them a Capacitor and adjusting their HP/s accordingly. This way, those wielding a Repair Tool would have to decide when or where to use one, but still being effective. Here's an example of what their stats would be: Quote: Normal Repair Tool Uptime: 25s Downtime: 35s Armor Repair Rate: 80HP/s This would be the general purpose Repair Tool. It's HP/s seems a bit much, but it can only restore a total of 6000HP before it needs to recharge, which is enough to heal an entire squad before needing to recharge Flux Repair Tool Uptime: 15s Downtime: 25s Armor Repair Rate: 60HP/s Along with being the long range Repair Tool, it would also have an emphasis on going in an out of engagements quickly. Though with only 2400HP before depletion, using it for squad support isn't recommended. Focused Repair Tool Uptime: 3s Downtime: 30s Armor Repair Rate: 215HP/s This would be the extreme alpha, low duration Repair Tool. It's able to yield incredible amounts of health, but only in short bursts; thus making it ideal for solo play and in situations where you need someone healed quickly. These numbers aren't definitive, but are simply placeholders to show what their purposes would be under my idea. With that in mind, what do you think the stats should be? TL;DR Specific numbers aside here's the rundown on my thoughts. I can get behind this idea so long as a few related changes are also in place. Remove the WP cap from the repair tools, the new capacitor effect should now provide the 'cool down' phase of the current cap and will be superior to having a hard limit with minimal UI feedback (as is the present standard). The cool down mechanic should function in the same type manner as the cloak currently does to truly simulate a capacitor. In other words it should be a pool of use time the same as current stamina is, recharging any time it is not actively being used to promote engaging game play and tactical choices. (I am presuming this is actually intended based on the wording of your OP, but it is vital enough to deserve my wanting to explicitly reiterate it). Repair Tools should award earnings based on a direct 1 HP healed = X War Points earned ratio constant across all levels of repair tool and nanoinjector. (This change is already needed, but would be even more needed with a capacitor style mechanic in place). Lock on fidelity and accuracy improved. (As with the prior point, this is already needed, but becomes more needed with a capacitor in play. If your active time locked is now a premium resource then having it applied poorly and/or to targets the player does not desire becomes even more onerous/less tactical). 0.02 ISK Cross See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3404	Posted - 2014.10.22 13:42:00 - [47] - Quote Atiim wrote: Cross Atu wrote: Jack 3enimble wrote: Shield reptool to bypass the recharge delay for that other sentinel, you know the shield based Caldari? Wish there was a reptool for my suit... I'm working on something like that. In fact having an infantry shield transporter is very high on my 'wishlist'. (I just hope it's doable) Cheers, Cross How about for Uprising 1.9? Not sure if it's making the list for 1.9 but it is looking more likely as a "this could be a thing" item See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3837	Posted - 2014.10.22 13:46:00 - [48] - Quote The fastest and easiest way to fix rep tools would be to make sentinels long-range support platforms with reach, enough firepower to kill and lessen the instamurder factor of the HMG. That way they can operate like a proper suppression/support platform and leave the CQC superiority to the assaults and scouts where it belongs. It would also lessen the value of having a logi with a leash shoved up a sentinel's ass and increase the value of a logi in squad support. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Mister Goo Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 34	Posted - 2014.10.22 13:48:00 - [49] - Quote Atiim wrote: If you don't enjoy reading, then I suggest skipping to the TL;DR. Currently, the only thing required to be successful with a Repair Tools is latch onto an Armor Tanker and hold on for dear life. This doesn't require much thought or user input, and makes things monotonous for those using them. Along with that, Repair Tools favor those with higher HP/s, which makes them inferior to the Focused variants. To solve these issues, I suggest giving them a Capacitor and adjusting their HP/s accordingly. This way, those wielding a Repair Tool would have to decide when or where to use one, but still being effective. Normally your posts are about something completely broken and need to be fixed. I am confused as to why you would want to change the repair tools this way. I won't say I'm against it completely, but I don't see a need. Question: Why the change? a. Tired of seeing a person at the top of the leader boards with 0/5 vs 26/2 by the second ranked person b. Your a Logi who is bored with the current set up and wants something more challenging c. Its unfair that Team member A does nothing but hold the R2 button and gets the most WP/SP/Isk d. To be considered gud you have to have a positive KDR e. Tired of seeing the Logi following behind with the tool running when nobody is around IE leashed f. any other reason you can think of that I haven't listed. By your first two sentences I would guess C, but that may not be the case, and I will give you the benefit of being better than that. As to the leashed pair I believe that is a noob logi who dosen't know better and is afraid he will not be able to lock on when the time comes, and is oblivious that he has a weapon also to help until needed. I am more confused by the last sentence about the repair tools themselves. There are different vairients to the repair tool yes, and the focused one is only available at proto. They have their pros and cons just like everything else, you use the proper tool for what your doing. Core=economy 13215 Isk 2 beam 70hp/s 15 m. Lai Dai Flux=distance 21630 isk 2 beam 70hp/s 22.5 m. Six Kin=Standard 21630 isk 2 beam 88hp/s 15 m. Core Focused 21630 isk 1beam 125hp/s 7.5m I didn't list the LP ones because you get the idea from these. Yes the focused ones heal more but you have to be very close. If your farming WP then it heals way to fast you are better off with a militia one. dirty needle and dirty repair tool=more WP if you want to farm. Help to team very little. On my cheap suits I use the core, the six kin as my goto tool, if I am doing point defense I use the core focused, and lastly If Im running with a lot of fast Assaults/Scouts the Lai Dai is a better choice because of the distance it can reach 33.75 at lvl5. For context Militia Assault Rifle no skill vs armor DPS=370 Core Focused maxed skills =156.25 HPs healed Basic HMG DPS=828 stay away from close contact, leave the heavy for remotes (2 for 1 special) or another heavy. you make your own conclusions. Again not completely against this idea but it comes down to being a nerf on the repair tool, the main weapon of the logi. You kill with your weapon of choice, I kill with my team mates weapon of choice, by changing him from 1 person to 1.5 people. Closed Beta Vet Minmatar Logistics I Repair, Revive, and Replenish. Leave the slaying for Assaults and Heavies.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3839	Posted - 2014.10.22 13:57:00 - [50] - Quote Mister Goo wrote: stuff and numbers. See my above post. the problem people have with the repair tool isn't that it's OP. it's the synergy of the repair tool combined with an amarr or gallente sentinel in CQC where the sentinel can usually block access to the logi. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.

Mister Goo Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 35	Posted - 2014.10.22 14:37:00 - [51] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Mister Goo wrote: stuff and numbers. See my above post. the problem people have with the repair tool isn't that it's OP. it's the synergy of the repair tool combined with an amarr or gallente sentinel in CQC where the sentinel can usually block access to the logi. I do agree with your post, but that is not what the OP is saying/suggesting. The synergy is very strong when your solo, but working as a team it is quickly overcome even in CQC. Right now red berries have the mind set of "I'm going to kill that heavy no matter what" and they throw themselves at him, feeding frenzy style. They don't change tactics to compensate for the logi/heavy combination. The Logi/Heavy synergy is a direct result of good team work. There are very vew places that heavys can block all access to a TEAM of enemys. In those few places it can be done, but your in a death trap, when more than one person is attacking at the same time. Grenades work wonders on a logi suit. Again TEAM WORK, for a game that is supposed to be based on team work there is very little used. If Dust were changed to your scenerio I agree completely with a capasitor based tool, but as things are now it is not a viable solution. So my response on how to fix the Repair tool in todays game is more simple and doesn't require CCP to do anything. Team Work Closed Beta Vet Minmatar Logistics I Repair, Revive, and Replenish. Leave the slaying for Assaults and Heavies.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3841	Posted - 2014.10.22 14:40:00 - [52] - Quote all it takes for a suppressor Heavy to be a thing is for Rattati to: Up HMG range Lower HMG damage to somewhere around current assault HMG Decrease dispersion sharply. the only thing that my proposition needs is a rework of the HMG. The weapon is dictating the role, not the suit. Plus if the weapon had the range the suit could have things like turn penalties that would allow scouts and assaults to peel it open in CQC and being restricted from doing things like driving LAVs. and then the most obnoxious use of the rep tool goes down 50-80% and people calm down about it. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Mister Goo Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 35	Posted - 2014.10.22 14:52:00 - [53] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: all it takes for a suppressor Heavy to be a thing is for Rattati to: Up HMG range Lower HMG damage to somewhere around current assault HMG Decrease dispersion sharply. the only thing that my proposition needs is a rework of the HMG. The weapon is dictating the role, not the suit. Plus if the weapon had the range the suit could have things like turn penalties that would allow scouts and assaults to peel it open in CQC and being restricted from doing things like driving LAVs. and then the most obnoxious use of the rep tool goes down 50-80% and people calm down about it. Yes I agree +1 Closed Beta Vet Minmatar Logistics I Repair, Revive, and Replenish. Leave the slaying for Assaults and Heavies.
Bradric Banewolf D3ATH CARD RUST415 422	Posted - 2014.10.23 03:04:00 - [54] - Quote I've proposed some ideas on this as well. What you said here makes sense entirely, but alas breaking up the easy mode circle jerk will not likely happen?! Too many guys are simply too simple minded, and want things to be easy. I was in a match with this new guy to corp, and he was repping a cal assault suit?!?!? Of course we told him that that was pointless as my buddy only had around 200 armor. We told him he needed to get on his gun and shoot! His reply at that point almost made me forget who I was?! He said "naw man I'm just trying to get the guardian points". It took everything I had not to kick him from corp!!! I went into a rage! These are the type of mentalities you have here in the forums, and in-game. They simply hunt for crutches, and hang on for dear life?! Now this isn't to say that all logis are like this. I run an advanced gal logi often to drop ammo and links. It is a needed role, and when done correctly it can truly turn the tide of a battle significantly. The problem is the price of some of the Logistics equipment, and equipment in general. Proto hives cost more than advanced dropsuits for something that can be elbowed?! Why does expendable dropped equipment for ammo cost 28k? I've posted threads about the market pricing of suits and equipment, and I feel the price of proto is too steep which creates a gap. More players would dare try their hand in PC if they could just afford it?! To the point, the rep tool needs to be changed as it is long overdue for an overhaul. It is a relic, or legacy equipment if you will. It's still operating on 1st Gen tech from over 2 years ago?! It creates a mentality that is toxic to the player base?! Give the Logistics dropsuit more ehp, a bonus for carrying equipment, and force them to truly get in the fight! If they had a significant bonus to carrying the costly equipment that they carry we may see more of it! Too many battles I have seen no uplinks, searched countless meters for ammo, and can hardly pay a merc to carry a needle?! I know what all you killers out there are saying. "Where are the logis?" Well they're broke?! At best you'll get cheap militia needles, a compact nanohive or worse, and basic rep tools?! It simply cost too much?! It's cheaper to put a rep tool on an assault suit. Some logis would actually run their logi fits if they could, but it usually means instant death?! Some are useless without their rep tools however?! I've watch some logis simply run when their heavy goes down?! They don't even try to shoot?! Even if the enemy is almost dead?! This isn't a daycare! Make them work same as everyone else, but I would say on the logis behalf that the price of equipment is far to steep at proto level?! My Gek cost less than wirykomi nanohives, and they only have 100hp?! If we want a logi to bring links, ammo, and rep tool it's gotta either cost less or produce much more isk payout. I am here to tell you that just running assault cost less?! I support this message! "Anybody order chaos?"
Bradric Banewolf D3ATH CARD RUST415 422	Posted - 2014.10.23 03:43:00 - [55] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: all it takes for a suppressor Heavy to be a thing is for Rattati to: Up HMG range Lower HMG damage to somewhere around current assault HMG Decrease dispersion sharply. the only thing that my proposition needs is a rework of the HMG. The weapon is dictating the role, not the suit. Plus if the weapon had the range the suit could have things like turn penalties that would allow scouts and assaults to peel it open in CQC and being restricted from doing things like driving LAVs. and then the most obnoxious use of the rep tool goes down 50-80% and people calm down about it. This would definitely change in-game tactics, but would it be worth it to be a sentinel if this happened? Dropping hmg damage would just bring more sentinels with rail rifles running around?! Pause for the cause: CCP, 'H' means heavy weapon! Fix it! There are different types of hmg's for a reason. The assault version is a specialist weapon, and though I would argue that the dispersion should be less, it does it's job in skilled hands. The same goes for the burst and general purpose hmg's. A suggestion while on the subject would be to get rid of this "all barrels firing at once" mentality that CCP has adopted?! Traditionally gatlin guns fire through all barrels individually. Creating one very concentrated stream of fire. So this "dispersion" idea on hmg's is unfounded entirely?! Short range hmg's should carry large calibers and produce big damage at close range while lacking in range due to bullet drop. Long range hmg's require smaller more accurate rounds that produce less damage, but carry for longer distances. With this premise in mind this whole "barrel burst" of ammo flying in all different inaccurate directions is ludicrous?! The dispersion that comes with hmg's should be lowered in the least if not removed completely. As far as logis go, you have working logis dedicated to the role of support equipment...... and then you have rep tool logi whores who feel that their contribution to the OB makes up for their lack in tactics?! The suppressor heavy exist in min and cal heavies with burst and assault hmg's. Their not the door kicking titans that the gal and Amarr heavies are, but they have speed and shields to flank and fire from distance if used correctly. "Anybody order chaos?"
Mister Goo Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 35	Posted - 2014.10.23 03:46:00 - [56] - Quote Bradric Banewolf wrote: I've proposed some ideas on this as well. What you said here makes sense entirely, but alas breaking up the easy mode circle jerk will not likely happen?! Too many guys are simply too simple minded, and want things to be easy. I was in a match with this new guy to corp, and he was repping a cal assault suit?!?!? Of course we told him that that was pointless as my buddy only had around 200 armor. We told him he needed to get on his gun and shoot! His reply at that point almost made me forget who I was?! He said "naw man I'm just trying to get the guardian points". It took everything I had not to kick him from corp!!! I went into a rage! These are the type of mentalities you have here in the forums, and in-game. They simply hunt for crutches, and hang on for dear life?! Now this isn't to say that all logis are like this. I run an advanced gal logi often to drop ammo and links. It is a needed role, and when done correctly it can truly turn the tide of a battle significantly. The problem is the price of some of the Logistics equipment, and equipment in general. Proto hives cost more than advanced dropsuits for something that can be elbowed?! Why does expendable dropped equipment for ammo cost 28k? I've posted threads about the market pricing of suits and equipment, and I feel the price of proto is too steep which creates a gap. More players would dare try their hand in PC if they could just afford it?! To the point, the rep tool needs to be changed as it is long overdue for an overhaul. It is a relic, or legacy equipment if you will. It's still operating on 1st Gen tech from over 2 years ago?! It creates a mentality that is toxic to the player base?! Give the Logistics dropsuit more ehp, a bonus for carrying equipment, and force them to truly get in the fight! If they had a significant bonus to carrying the costly equipment that they carry we may see more of it! Too many battles I have seen no uplinks, searched countless meters for ammo, and can hardly pay a merc to carry a needle?! I know what all you killers out there are saying. "Where are the logis?" Well they're broke?! At best you'll get cheap militia needles, a compact nanohive or worse, and basic rep tools?! It simply cost too much?! It's cheaper to put a rep tool on an assault suit. Some logis would actually run their logi fits if they could, but it usually means instant death?! Some are useless without their rep tools however?! I've watch some logis simply run when their heavy goes down?! They don't even try to shoot?! Even if the enemy is almost dead?! This isn't a daycare! Make them work same as everyone else, but I would say on the logis behalf that the price of equipment is far to steep at proto level?! My Gek cost less than wirykomi nanohives, and they only have 100hp?! If we want a logi to bring links, ammo, and rep tool it's gotta either cost less or produce much more isk payout. I am here to tell you that just running assault cost less?! I support this message! You should have kicked him. It is because of idiots like this, that we are in this predicament, as is the case in many other "crutch" items. A logi should always use his weapon to help the squad until his repair tool is needed. I will update my post on leashing didn't think of this particular instance of idiocy. but your right. You have hit another sore point with equipment costs Closed Beta Vet Minmatar Logistics I Repair, Revive, and Replenish. Leave the slaying for Assaults and Heavies.
Bradric Banewolf D3ATH CARD RUST415 423	Posted - 2014.10.23 04:02:00 - [57] - Quote Mister Goo wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Mister Goo wrote: stuff and numbers. See my above post. the problem people have with the repair tool isn't that it's OP. it's the synergy of the repair tool combined with an amarr or gallente sentinel in CQC where the sentinel can usually block access to the logi. I do agree with your post, but that is not what the OP is saying/suggesting. The synergy is very strong when your solo, but working as a team it is quickly overcome even in CQC. Right now red berries have the mind set of "I'm going to kill that heavy no matter what" and they throw themselves at him, feeding frenzy style. They don't change tactics to compensate for the logi/heavy combination. The Logi/Heavy synergy is a direct result of good team work. There are very vew places that heavys can block all access to a TEAM of enemys. In those few places it can be done, your in a death trap, when more than one person is attacking at the same time. Grenades work wonders on a logi suit. Again TEAM WORK, for a game that is supposed to be based on team work there is very little used. If Dust were changed to your scenerio I agree completely with a capasitor based tool, but as things are now it is not a viable solution. So my response on how to fix the Repair tool in todays game is more simple and doesn't require CCP to do anything. Team Work Team work, or the lack thereof, isn't the issue. What he is suggesting will stop the influx of new players going straight into heavy or logi dropsuits because it's easy. Every role should be equally challenging, complicated, and rewarding. Changing the rep tool will cause players to have to manage their usage of the rep tool and other equipment, including their rifle! If the proposed layout was implemented the logi could rep a heavy after an engagement, or during depending g on the situation. This would require more thinking on the part of this "team" and their "team work". As the logi do I use the rep tool going into this door, and A: there are no enemies B: there are enemies? Do I scan before entry? Do I use nanohives instead, and fire my weapon? As the heavy do I build my suit all armor, and depend solely on my logi? Do I add reps to my fit, and become self sufficient? Do I use shields or damage mods? Is my approach correct, or do I need to adjust my tactics? With what has been going on with the current rep tool the assaults and scouts have to make these decisions while logis and heavies role requires no thinking, caution, or tactics?! Giving logis their passive reps back would help compensate for the rep tool changes, but I can not condone crutch equipment for any role. When they changed the scanner I was actually happy to see it. It forced players to think about when, where, and how they applied it. Instead of just spinning in a circle every 5 seconds?! This will separate good logis from scrub logis in an instant as the good ones will continue the path of the logibro, and the scrubs will hopefully see a challenge and quit the game?! "Anybody order chaos?"
Bradric Banewolf D3ATH CARD RUST415 423	Posted - 2014.10.23 04:32:00 - [58] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Atiim wrote: If you don't enjoy reading, then I suggest skipping to the TL;DR. Currently, the only thing required to be successful with a Repair Tools is latch onto an Armor Tanker and hold on for dear life. This doesn't require much thought or user input, and makes things monotonous for those using them. Along with that, Repair Tools favor those with higher HP/s, which makes them inferior to the Focused variants. To solve these issues, I suggest giving them a Capacitor and adjusting their HP/s accordingly. This way, those wielding a Repair Tool would have to decide when or where to use one, but still being effective. Here's an example of what their stats would be: Quote: Normal Repair Tool Uptime: 25s Downtime: 35s Armor Repair Rate: 80HP/s This would be the general purpose Repair Tool. It's HP/s seems a bit much, but it can only restore a total of 6000HP before it needs to recharge, which is enough to heal an entire squad before needing to recharge Flux Repair Tool Uptime: 15s Downtime: 25s Armor Repair Rate: 60HP/s Along with being the long range Repair Tool, it would also have an emphasis on going in an out of engagements quickly. Though with only 2400HP before depletion, using it for squad support isn't recommended. Focused Repair Tool Uptime: 3s Downtime: 30s Armor Repair Rate: 215HP/s This would be the extreme alpha, low duration Repair Tool. It's able to yield incredible amounts of health, but only in short bursts; thus making it ideal for solo play and in situations where you need someone healed quickly. These numbers aren't definitive, but are simply placeholders to show what their purposes would be under my idea. With that in mind, what do you think the stats should be? TL;DR This is a terrible idea. About as terrible as the breach swarm launcher. He doesn't mean this directly?! Something along these lines as CCP would make the final adjustments, but something definitely needs to change because currently it's a crutch for players with no real skills. They should be held to the same battle standards as every other role, but instead are told "oh you suck? Ok you see that repair tool? Go level 5, and get behind Ole Brutus there. Brutus, show em the ropes." That's the wrong answer?! Medics on a battlefield shoot first! They are taught to carry their own weight, and eliminate the enemy first before they administer aid. I would like to see this games logi work more like the support role in battlefield. They are fighters first, but can distribute ammo. This BS of just leashing onto others to carry you is garbage. On the flip side of that coin make logis more durable, and lower the equipment cost so they can afford to carry more than a rep tool! I'm a big advocate for the Logistics dropsuit, but the rep tool by itself needs a change. Not a nerf CCP! A change! Gotta make that clear, or we'll end up with a nerf like the ScR for the rep tool?! "Anybody order chaos?"
Mister Goo Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 36	Posted - 2014.10.23 06:40:00 - [59] - Quote Bradric Banewolf wrote: Team work, or the lack thereof, isn't the issue. What he is suggesting will stop the influx of new players going straight into heavy or logi dropsuits because it's easy. Every role should be equally challenging, complicated, and rewarding. Changing the rep tool will cause players to have to manage their usage of the rep tool and other equipment, including their rifle! If the proposed layout was implemented the logi could rep a heavy after an engagement, or during depending g on the situation. This would require more thinking on the part of this "team" and their "team work". As the logi do I use the rep tool going into this door, and A: there are no enemies B: there are enemies? Do I scan before entry? Do I use nanohives instead, and fire my weapon? As the heavy do I build my suit all armor, and depend solely on my logi? Do I add reps to my fit, and become self sufficient? Do I use shields or damage mods? Is my approach correct, or do I need to adjust my tactics? With what has been going on with the current rep tool the assaults and scouts have to make these decisions while logis and heavies role requires no thinking, caution, or tactics?! Giving logis their passive reps back would help compensate for the rep tool changes, but I can not condone crutch equipment for any role. When they changed the scanner I was actually happy to see it. It forced players to think about when, where, and how they applied it. Instead of just spinning in a circle every 5 seconds?! This will separate good logis from scrub logis in an instant as the good ones will continue the path of the logibro, and the scrubs will hopefully see a challenge and quit the game?! Your Heavy and Logi examples above are exactly what should be happening now. But probably not. Why do you feel the repair tool should be changed? Not attacking, trying to figure out the mind set because I don't really understand. As I stated I am not opposed to a change for the betterment of my role. But not because of others feeling it is unfair because of the "easy mode" to earn WP, or because it is too hard to kill a logi/heavy or assault combination solo. I agree that something is wrong with the current way that the Logi follows the Heavy around the battle field with repair tool on at all times refusing to shoot at the enemy because he might miss some guardian points. I fully understand your wanting a time limit on using the repair tool in this case. Now an example of my own using proposed changes. And yes I know the numbers can be changed. Heavy and Logi decide to hold the A point on the 3 point map. Blue berries being how they are do their thing and can't manage to hold on to point B and point C and play the lemmings to try and take them back. I will use my Min proto for this example because of the 4 equipment slots. Cost is about 230,000isk Slot 1. Core Focused Repair tool for high reps. Slot 2. State needle for 100% pickups when one of the team go down. Slot 3. repair hives Slot 4. Guaged hives to be dropped as needed With your proposed changes I can give the heavy 645 armor back every 30 seconds with the added 210 from the hive thats a total of 855 armor repaired in those 3 seconds. The heavy is going to be shooting back and shots are going to miss but an Assault rifle no mods does 370 DPS - 70 for the triage hive= 300 DPS cut it in half and its still 150 a second. He was smart and put a complex repair on his suit so he also gets antoher 9 from it. He has to wait 30 seconds to get repaired again so during this wait the logi is using his weapon to help with the other red dots coming down the hill. The result is 10 seconds later dead logi and Heavy. In less time than it takes to spawn in. I propose a different type of change, instead of using a charge based repair tool, lower or do away with guardian points completely. Increase the amount of repair points given but lower the current hard cap for WP earned. No crutch for WP you have to stop using the repair tool for a designated time frame to start earning points again but the repairs can continue with no points earned. You can effectively support your squad, but no incentive to continually run the repair tool. The heavy logi team will still own solo players but using team work effectively the synergy doesn't matter because the heavy is still out gunned and the repair tools are out damaged. Even the militia variants out perform the premier repair tool. Closed Beta Vet Minmatar Logistics I Repair, Revive, and Replenish. Leave the slaying for Assaults and Heavies.


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