The only problem is; math isn't my forta, it's dull to me..

This isn't a qq thread. Some threads i've been reading recently was arguments about scouts, and how there so much better at assaulting than the assault class. More importantly i've been watching Mat Pat's game theory videos on youtube. That cuppuled with some of judge's videos gave me an idea. Rather than scream at one another "this is OP, your a scrub!" Or "this is perfectly fine, your a scrub!" Why not try to analyze both classes, and use hard cold math and logic to find out if the scout really is better at assaulting than the assault class.

The only problem is; math isn't my forta, it's dull to me, and I was never good at it. So this thread is essentially crowed sourcing. With the help of you guys, we might be able to put this argument to rest. My first question to the forum is what specific data do I need to look into, what factors of both classes do I need to look at and consider?

I have an idea where to kind of start out, probably the most obvious things. I was going to compare raw stats of each race's assault and scout suits with each other (EX; ammar scout stats vs. Amarr assault stats.), organizing them by level. Then compare slot numbers.

This isn't to prove scouts are op, this is to answer the question "is the scout class really better at assaulting than the assault class?" Helpful and constrictive replies would be appreciated.

Spelling is also not your forte (note the use of the letter "e" and not the letter "a"). Also, coupled, not cuppuled.

You want to define the roles, set their goals/objectives into stone before even looking at the math. Once you've got that, take into consideration the things most valued in that role given the current maps of Dust and what is allowed. Things such as HP possibilities, versatility, staying power, etc.

your absolutely right, but i fear it may be far easier said then done. What is the goal and objective of the scout and assault roles? This question is best left for CCP to answer, I'm sure i could find the answer by digging deep into the forums, and finding dev posts that might describe what they had in mind for the two roles, but it may take more time to search than i can give. Regardless i'll start searching and hope i find it.

also, i would of replied sooner, but i started the thread just before getting to my college campus.

The least you could have done was given some feedback on the actual topic too...

No, the least I could have done was to say "Bacon" and left it at that

I think you underestimate the value of Bacon, such that even its mention provides the image and hope of future Bacon.

I believe the main problem lies in that the Scout has so many tools and advantages over the Assault that their few disadvantages are entirely negated and then some. Below is a general list of pros and cons for Scouts and Assaults

Scouts have to their advantage:
Lower scan profile
Better scan precision
Better passive scan range
Easy access to effective cloaking
Superior strafing
Superior flanking
Superior chasing
Superior escaping
Smaller hitbox that can often lead to false positive hits
More stamina
More stamina regen
Faster shield regen (the armor-based Amarr Scout is even superior to the Caldari Assault here)
Higher jumping height for getting over railings/certain areas of walls
Two equipment slots
Superior racial bonuses that put them head and shoulders above any class besides Sentinels and are always effective
Access to certain specialty weapons that are most effective on a Scout
No problems with handling common Assault-type weaponry
Highly effective in almost every situation

Scouts have to their disadvantage:
Lower average EHP
Slightly reliant on positioning
Uh...


Assaults have to their advantage:
Comparatively high average eHP
No problems handling common Assault-type weaponry
Serve as an effective distraction for flanking forces, but anything used right can too.

Assaults have to their disadvantage:
Can't jump over many railings, those that can be jumped are inconsistent with when they will allow you to pass, must jump perfectly
Poor scan precision, many enemies can be TACNET-invisible even undampened
Poor scan range, enemies are on top of you before they show up on TACNET if they show up at all
Poor scan profile, many enemies can pick you up on their TACNET and act accordingly
No access to effective cloaking, making it easy for unseen enemies to pick you off at range
Overall inadequate mobility for escape from even Sentinels
Overall inadequate mobility for chasing anything faster than a Commando or Sentinel
Second lowest number of equipment slots, tied with Commando
Generally inferior racial bonuses that often do little to nothing to enhance their role
A larger hitbox that often has few to no hit detection issues
No specialty weapons that can be utilized by them better than any other class (Amarr Assault + ScR excluded)
Often reliant on positioning


I may add more as I think of them.

Sustainability would be nice, but when a scout is able to avoid combat all together the scout would still win the day which mean ewar would still a problem. There are a ton of ways to fix these conditions.. I like the idea of scout bonus change to cloak duration, the natural suit bonus taken away, and the cpu/pg cost of cloak dropped.

Buff cloaked db to 0 and nerf the duration everyone could then use cloak for a short time allowing a assault team to strike and move small distances un-noticed.

A scanner buff (Proximity scanner excluded) could and should be used to burn cloak users.

The Assault dropsuit is a versatile frontline combat suit that combines excellent protection, good mobility, and sufficient versatility for mission-specific alterations.

Assault dropsuits are intended for standard combat operations or those in which objectives are likely to change at a momentGÇÖs notice. Able to carry anything from small arms and explosives to heavy anti-vehicle munitions and deployable support gear, this is the most adaptable suit on the battlefield.

This role adheres to your typical assault archetype: itGÇÖs the all-round combat operative best suited to making the initial breach. Naturally itGÇÖs the middle ground in eHP and mobility between light and heavy frames. The racial bonuses generally make up for the weapon classes main drawbacks making them more effective when in the hands of the right suit. It has a light and sidearm weapon slot, grenade slot and an equipment slot.

You mean like... how it WORKS in eve come on now