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nicholas73 Glitched Connection 221	Posted - 2014.09.25 11:09:00 - [1] - Quote ...unproductive to them team, our team lost cause we had 5 snipers redline sniping. And not coming out to defend the objective. The changes are really good but it has not changed the fact that snipers still snipe from the redline in a carefree fashion. I thought the change will bring them out from the redline but that is not the case. Actually its has become more tough to counter-snipe them, cause you have to do so in from the middle of the battlefield. I demand the sniper rifle damage be halved and headshot multiplier negated when in the redline. Actually this should apply to redline railgun tanks as well (not as prominent as before but can still be found). Proud member of Glitched Connection
Omega Black Zero Condotta Rouvenor Gallente Federation 119	Posted - 2014.09.25 11:10:00 - [2] - Quote lol good luck with that one buddy
nicholas73 Glitched Connection 221	Posted - 2014.09.25 11:11:00 - [3] - Quote Omega Black Zero wrote: lol good luck with that one buddy Yeah, I know its never gonna happen. Still gonna hate all snipers. Proud member of Glitched Connection
steadyhand amarr shadows of 514 3369	Posted - 2014.09.25 11:12:00 - [4] - Quote Nothing outside of banning that playstyle will stop it from happening. People like playing snipers and thus will snipe where it's most safe to do so. It's a problem that can't be fixed because it's how people choose to play You can never have to many chaples -Templar True adamance
nicholas73 Glitched Connection 221	Posted - 2014.09.25 11:15:00 - [5] - Quote steadyhand amarr wrote: Nothing outside of banning that playstyle will stop it from happening. People like playing snipers and thus will snipe where it's most safe to do so. It's a problem that can't be fixed because it's how people choose to play Its the redline!!!!! Proud member of Glitched Connection
Mregomies Beer For Evil Mercs 279	Posted - 2014.09.25 11:17:00 - [6] - Quote You must try harder... my legs hurt and I'm too fat to the frontline. Suomi, Finland, PERKELE! Logibro Logibro2
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 16676	Posted - 2014.09.25 11:19:00 - [7] - Quote I would agree with the idea of punishing effort within the redline cept one major problem. How do you know you're out of your own redline? CPM 1 Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior \\= Prototype Sniper Rifles =// Unlocked
Kaughst Nyain San General Tso's Alliance 598	Posted - 2014.09.25 11:35:00 - [8] - Quote That's great but symbioticfork is not going to stop trying to gun me down every chance he gets. I demand he be highlighted. You know you have at least thought about cow tipping. They know, and they're out to settle the score.
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 3387	Posted - 2014.09.25 12:17:00 - [9] - Quote nicholas73 wrote: I demand the sniper rifle damage be halved and headshot multiplier negated when in the redline. Actually this should apply to redline railgun tanks as well (not as prominent as before but can still be found). You are approaching this all wrong. Instead of penalizing the damage when firing from the redline, just remove the rewards. If you make a kill in the redline you do not earn WP; simple as that. He imposes order on the chaos of organic evolution...
Operative 1125 Lokaas True Companion Planetary Requisitions 388	Posted - 2014.09.25 12:36:00 - [10] - Quote nicholas73 wrote: steadyhand amarr wrote: Nothing outside of banning that playstyle will stop it from happening. People like playing snipers and thus will snipe where it's most safe to do so. It's a problem that can't be fixed because it's how people choose to play Its the redline!!!!! It's not the redline, it's the hills that are in the redline and the lack of a high point otherwise short of flying up to the top of a building and be an obvious target to the point you can't even snipe at all. There are specific areas that happen to be in the redline that have a perfect view of high traffic areas in the outposts. THIS IS THE VOICE OF RÁN

jace silencerww Inner.Hell 48	Posted - 2014.09.25 12:38:00 - [11] - Quote make an zone that shows up on everyones radar but to just hurt snipe rifles is unfair HOWEVER make a reduce all damage by 50% when shooting in or out of this zone so the redline team can try to fight out of it. so a red sniper shooting into this zone is doing 50% damage even if he is 200 meters away from your our redline. this way if your side is redline lined the reds that are trying to camp it are having a harder time keeping your side pinned back. put this zone from your back redline to 20-50 meters out of your redline. the range differences are up to the map. this would stop tanks from camping as well. this zone would NOT affect turret installations an maybe things like melee or nova knives due to you have to next to your target for damage. the damage can be changed to a scale % the closer you are to being out of it the more damage weapons are doing back to normal the farther you shoot into this zone the less it does. I hope I said this right if you have any questions I can explain it better in voice.
You Are Inferior Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 1	Posted - 2014.09.25 12:39:00 - [12] - Quote Friendly fire penalty for kills in red zone make it happen... but if you get pushed back to your spawn god help you. It didn't taste like abortion.?.?.
Bahirae Serugiusu Vendetta Reactionary Force 137	Posted - 2014.09.25 13:08:00 - [13] - Quote When have snipers ever been productive members to the team. They all think they are master marksmen and can change the battle from afar when in reality they are less useful then the guy in Frontline thats going 1/10 since he at least is going to make the enemy waste ammo at best snipers are a nuisance and thats all they ever will be.
Raptor Princess ALLOTEC INC 34	Posted - 2014.09.25 13:18:00 - [14] - Quote As has been pointed out, there are few points outside of the redline in some maps from which to snipe. The change to range has made some good non-redline spots unviable but I've seen mcc snipers getting plenty kills in other maps. I tried to counter-snipe a guy on a tower in the map with 6 towers, and couldn't unless I left the hills across from said tower. By moving closer, I lost the angle and so couldn't shoot him. I hate sniping from up there, but it looks like a really good spot to sit if you want to avoid dying now! Has kinda stolen a lot of my prospective kills though- I used to love sitting across from a set of towers and getting headshot after headshot. I refuse to accept that snipers are useless - they can see loads from their perches and shout it out to their squad members. And because it's easy to see invisibles while looking through the scope, they can warn teammates about the impending shotgunner. Some maps have good spots to see right into an objective and so the sniper can watch for people approaching. Sure, they might not die as much or take as many risks, but snipers definitely have a place in Dust. (And I like being a nuisance! How many heavies have orbitals dropped on them alone because they're annoying the enemy so much?!)
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3674	Posted - 2014.09.25 13:53:00 - [15] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: nicholas73 wrote: I demand the sniper rifle damage be halved and headshot multiplier negated when in the redline. Actually this should apply to redline railgun tanks as well (not as prominent as before but can still be found). You are approaching this all wrong. Instead of penalizing the damage when firing from the redline, just remove the rewards. If you make a kill in the redline you do not earn WP; simple as that. Denying people rewards for playing intelligently is dumb. And unfortunately, there's only a few viable places for snipers to operate on most maps that aren't in the redline. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
valad II NoGameNoLife 92	Posted - 2014.09.25 15:52:00 - [16] - Quote nicholas73 wrote: ...unproductive to them team, our team lost cause we had 5 snipers redline sniping. And not coming out to defend the objective. The changes are really good but it has not changed the fact that snipers still snipe from the redline in a carefree fashion. I thought the change will bring them out from the redline but that is not the case. Actually its has become more tough to counter-snipe them, cause you have to do so in from the middle of the battlefield. I demand the sniper rifle damage be halved and headshot multiplier negated when in the redline. Actually this should apply to redline railgun tanks as well (not as prominent as before but can still be found). I demand hot wings and poontang on a daily basis but that doesn't happen. I am sure CCP will jump all over your demands.
Auris Lionesse Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 1002	Posted - 2014.09.25 16:01:00 - [17] - Quote i could have told you this was broken before the update even went out. snipers biggest problems arent stats. its the way they behave in the game, theyre harder to aim than they should be, they miss even when the reticule is red confriming a target will be shot, maps are too small and poorly designed for the redline and sniping alcoves, rendering glitches blocking shots, etc etc more headshot damage is nice. the other stuff should have been fixed first a year ago though. Don't vote for iron wolf saber. Vote for someone who will help the community i.e. anyone else.
Auris Lionesse Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 1002	Posted - 2014.09.25 16:04:00 - [18] - Quote Bahirae Serugiusu wrote: When have snipers ever been productive members to the team. They all think they are master marksmen and can change the battle from afar when in reality they are less useful then the guy in Frontline thats going 1/10 since he at least is going to make the enemy waste ammo at best snipers are a nuisance and thats all they ever will be. clearly youve never played battlefield bad company 2. a single proper sniper with c4 could lock down an objective indefinitely until the end of the match. and despite being nerfed in bf3 theyre still extremely potent killers. Don't vote for iron wolf saber. Vote for someone who will help the community i.e. anyone else.
Random Redberry Elite Intergalactic Mercenaries 3	Posted - 2014.09.25 16:12:00 - [19] - Quote i need sniupers in my carp becz we will be doing pc soon pls join i got left as ceo what do? pls join
Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 489	Posted - 2014.09.25 16:22:00 - [20] - Quote All of this is things that were warned about in the feedback leading up to the hotfix. that they would become safer due to being unable to counter snipe effectively, would still be in the red line,etc. there will be red line snipers as long as there is a red line. because the problem is twofold. 1.there are far too many of the best positions in the red line with far too many maps with no real spots outside red line areas at all. 2.there are some players that are only using the red line because they don't like being killed. - no amount of range nerf is going to make this type of player leave the red line. with the first, the reason for the range nerf is to try and let us use these spots without it being impossible to kill us from outside of our red line. in other words to make us vulnerable to players that want to actually deal with us, without them needing to suicide. with the 2nd sad but true... at least now they are easier to snipe and they can't rely on their heavy suits to protect them from losing their thales anymore.

Operative 1125 Lokaas True Companion Planetary Requisitions 398	Posted - 2014.09.25 21:49:00 - [21] - Quote Bahirae Serugiusu wrote: When have snipers ever been productive members to the team. They all think they are master marksmen and can change the battle from afar when in reality they are less useful then the guy in Frontline thats going 1/10 since he at least is going to make the enemy waste ammo at best snipers are a nuisance and thats all they ever will be. Patently not true. You are a SNIPOPHOBE and that is not a legitimate basis for a complaint. I regularly end up sniping to help clear an area due to an overabundance of weak or inept assaults that do nothing to progress the situation. Your notion of what is useful is warped. So, everybody should just keep running out and dying to make the enemy run out of bullets? Lol. THIS IS THE VOICE OF RÁN
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 1020	Posted - 2014.09.25 21:52:00 - [22] - Quote nicholas73 wrote: ...unproductive to them team, our team lost cause we had 5 snipers redline sniping. And not coming out to defend the objective. The changes are really good but it has not changed the fact that snipers still snipe from the redline in a carefree fashion. I thought the change will bring them out from the redline but that is not the case. Actually its has become more tough to counter-snipe them, cause you have to do so in from the middle of the battlefield. I demand the sniper rifle damage be halved and headshot multiplier negated when in the redline. Actually this should apply to redline railgun tanks as well (not as prominent as before but can still be found). Gasp! Who would have ever thought that people who play casually would... GASP Play casually?!? OMG what a disruption! http://youtu.be/dtXupQg77SU Dust to Dust Remember the dream you had before the day you were born.
Sclompton Face-Smasher uptown456 113	Posted - 2014.09.25 23:50:00 - [23] - Quote Snake Sellors wrote: All of this is things that were warned about in the feedback leading up to the hotfix. that they would become safer due to being unable to counter snipe effectively, would still be in the red line,etc. there will be red line snipers as long as there is a red line. because the problem is twofold. 1.there are far too many of the best positions in the red line with far too many maps with no real spots outside red line areas at all. 2.there are some players that are only using the red line because they don't like being killed. - no amount of range nerf is going to make this type of player leave the red line. with the first, the reason for the range nerf is to try and let us use these spots without it being impossible to kill us from outside of our red line. in other words to make us vulnerable to players that want to actually deal with us, without them needing to suicide. with the 2nd sad but true... at least now they are easier to snipe and they can't rely on their heavy suits to protect them from losing their thales anymore. As Operative 1125 Lokaas, Raptor Princess, (with the great point of snipers being bait while we distract or murder your or your team/squad's suit and fits making more agitated people forcing them to hunt us making room for the suicide meatbags which OP and others apparently love), Soraya Xel, Auris Lionesse, and Snake Sellors pointed out... FEW GOOD SPOTS If any at all outside the red which is why I, besides being a sniper myself, don't mind running down or counter sniping a redliner because you excellent, supple examples of meatbags can keep them distracted enough sometimes for me to get rid of him/her then go back to your tiki style circle jerk which you call Quote: being productive or which I call "Spraying idiocy" from time to time because i'm not as prejudice as you run and die ***tards and appreciate you getting the objectives while I can't. Do that and I may* try my hardest to keep those cloakers and heavies off your back that you also whine about so much! PS: valad II, Can I get some boneless honey chipotle wings with that? Playstyle: Scout~Passionate In-bred Sniper~Support~Enemy finder Weapon: Pro SG~SR~SMG~NK~ScR
Lloyd Orfay Commando Perkone Caldari State 57	Posted - 2014.09.25 23:54:00 - [24] - Quote I'm starting to think both casual players and devs don't care anymore for actually treating the issues of this game. You can simply see nearly every problem with the game simply by looking at the guns, some suits and scout players especially. While random stat changes are being brought up. No one seems to care for the fact that ADS are still invincible, Snipers can still play with high reward and no risk, scouts are still more powerful than a majority of suits, and other things mainly because this game is team based and none of these things even have roles for a team.
Sclompton Face-Smasher uptown456 113	Posted - 2014.09.26 00:05:00 - [25] - Quote Lloyd Orfay wrote: I'm starting to think both casual players and devs don't care anymore for actually treating the issues of this game. You can simply see nearly every problem with the game simply by looking at the guns, some suits and scout players especially. While random stat changes are being brought up. No one seems to care for the fact that ADS are still invincible, Snipers can still play with high reward and no risk, scouts are still more powerful than a majority of suits, and other things mainly because this game is team based and none of these things even have roles for a team. I'll point out that FOTM is always rolling over and it just so happened that whatever weapon and suit nerf happened in in 1.6 or 1.7 just happened to make scouts more viable while reducing the basic fits that everyone starts off with-mediums to assaults. Though I I do feel assaults should be regen king out of all the suits on this game as of now naturally. Playstyle: Scout~Passionate In-bred Sniper~Support~Enemy finder Weapon: Pro SG~SR~SMG~NK~ScR
Sharrissa Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2014.09.26 02:27:00 - [26] - Quote steadyhand amarr wrote: Nothing outside of banning that playstyle will stop it from happening. People like playing snipers and thus will snipe where it's most safe to do so. It's a problem that can't be fixed because it's how people choose to play Yes! Many people like me choose to play the role that many hate so much! HOWEVER! The reason for my choice is because I die too much in close quarters combat! This game was originally something that all kinds of people could play comfortably within the range of their specific skill-set but now with the most recent update, especially the severe reduction in sniper rifle range, the programmers have effectively tied the hands of all snipers! The most recent news was that the programmers reduced the range only a little but the real truth is that they have not just cut the range in half, they have cut it down to almost nothing! You can't even snipe from some of the tall hillsides & forget about using the towers! I don't understand why when the sniping was good & even before this recent change, having a max range of six hundred meters was a absolute must because without it, you can't even reach to the middle of the large sized maps! Of course, this most recent change makes the point of even having a sniper rifle useless!!!! So! Please tell me how it is fair to cut down the range so drastically?? Before, there was some balance & even if some people didn't like it, they kept forgetting all the times that people like me prevented the enemy from kicking our collective asses! I have shot more enemies that were about to draw a bead on someone from my side & the would-be victim even thanked me! So, you can see that the role of the sniper is important no matter what people think & contrary to popular belief, no sniper is ever safe!! I have been routed many times from my chosen sniper nest in more ways than I can count! I have had the enemy pull a Kamikaze maneuver on me with drop ships, been run over by Onikomas, enemy snipers firing on me so much that I was effectively pinned down so I couldn't make another shot. So, as one person here has said about the game having a balance, it did but that was before hot fix Delta. Now, it is so unbalanced that the only way that any one can use a sniper rifle, is to shoot from the hip at close range & that does not make it a sniper situation at all! The point to being a sniper, is to maintain that elusive distance & keep your enemy guessing your location but if the makers of this game, want to cater to a few wimps that do not know how to adapt, then they might as well forget about the true tactics of this game!! Hey! Programmers!!! You had a good thing going here & most of the common historical tactics used in the past world wars have been applied to this game with a few unorthodox tossed in for good measure but now, you have just ruined this game for one player who was getting closer to earning enough SP to get the skills towards using the right gear that would have allowed her to play in close range combat!!! PUT THE DAMNED SNIPER RANGE NUMBERS BACK THE WAY THEY WERE OR THE ROLE OF A SNIPER IS GOING TO BE NOTHING BUT ONE CRUEL JOKE!!!!!!!
Xocoyol Zaraoul Superior Genetics 2445	Posted - 2014.09.26 03:29:00 - [27] - Quote What a terrible overdone thread... "You see those red dots over there? Go and shoot them until you see a +50 on the screen" - Arkena Wyrnspire
Thokk Nightshade KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND 602	Posted - 2014.09.26 03:46:00 - [28] - Quote Sharrissa wrote: edited for length and Pointless minutia The reason for my choice is because I die too much in close quarters combat! This game was originally something that all kinds of people could play comfortably within the range of their specific skill-set but now with the most recent update, especially the severe reduction in sniper rifle range, the programmers have effectively tied the hands of all snipers! The most recent news was that the programmers reduced the range only a little but the real truth is that they have not just cut the range in half, they have cut it down to almost nothing! You can't even snipe from some of the tall hillsides & forget about using the towers! having a max range of six hundred meters was a absolute must because without it, you can't even reach to the middle of the large sized maps! Of course, this most recent change makes the point of even having a sniper rifle useless!!!! I have been routed many times from my chosen sniper nest in more ways than I can count! I have had the enemy pull a Kamikaze maneuver on me with drop ships, been run over by Onikomas, enemy snipers firing on me so much that I was effectively pinned down so I couldn't make another shot. So, as one person here has said about the game having a balance, it did but that was before hot fix Delta. Now, it is so unbalanced that the only way that any one can use a sniper rifle, is to shoot from the hip at close range & that does not make it a sniper situation at all! The point to being a sniper, is to maintain that elusive distance & keep your enemy guessing your location but if the makers of this game, want to cater to a few wimps that do not know how to adapt, then they might as well forget about the true tactics of this game!! Hey! Programmers!!! You had a good thing going here & most of the common historical tactics used in the past world wars have been applied to this game with a few unorthodox tossed in for good measure but now, you have just ruined this game for one player who was getting closer to earning enough SP to get the skills towards using the right gear that would have allowed her to play in close range combat!!! PUT THE DAMNED SNIPER RANGE NUMBERS BACK THE WAY THEY WERE OR THE ROLE OF A SNIPER IS GOING TO BE NOTHING BUT ONE CRUEL JOKE!!!!!!! Are you f***ing serious? "The only way I can kill people without dying and not having to risk anything is to sit in the redline. Now you are telling me I can't be in my nice plush pillow bed of a hill 200 meters away from the closest danger." That is basically your QQ'ing and, to be as nice as possible, just please be quiet and I'll explain to you how wrong everything you said just was. I'm no Symbiotic Forks or Fox Gaden, but I've been a sniper since open beta. That is the only role I played the first 5 or so months of playing this game, so I have some idea what I'm talking about here. DISTANCE: YOU: "WE ABSOLUTELY NEED 600 METERS RANGE OR WE ARE JUST HIPFIRING and CQC blah blah blah"... Rebuttal: In the last 6 months I think I've had maybe a couple dozen kills longer than 350 meters. 75% of those at least were from counter-sniping. Over half of my sniper kills are in the 150-250 meter range (yes, well within the range of a forge gun, BEFORE a sniper could OHK a Sentinel suit). How many maps are currently out there where Red Line to Red line is barely or less than 600 meters? You don't need to be able to reach clear across the freaking map. Move in a little closer, find a spot, and be able to shoot in all directions and support your team. 400 Meters isn't "Almost Nothing". It was reduced by roughly 30-40% depending on which Sniper rifle you picked up. It is still enough for you to (obviously) sit 100 meters in the redline and shoot clear to the objective and, on some maps, the opposite redline. LOCATION: YOU: "I want to sit in my nice sniper's perch and shoot people all game without having to move and not have any of the meanies try and shoot back at me" REbuttal: Shoot, move, and communicate. If you find a spot where you can sit all match and support your team without getting shot at, congratulations. Keep it up. However, if you get pinned down or people start chasing you, there is another wild option. Hold on, bear with me k? Are you ready? MOVE! You aren't a tree. You have the ability to move around to different locations. Gain different angles on targets and objectives, etc. BALANCE: YOU: "I had balance because I could sit there and I could kill people and I did get killed and I am happy with it so, "Balance" Rebuttal:You and your playstyle are the reason people dislike snipers in this game. When they say "all reward no risk", this is what they are talking about. The point of a FPS is, oh my God, killing and being killed, shooting and being shot. This isn't Duck Hunt or a shooting gallery where you can sit there in the hills with a Nanohive Mochachino, sipping it and waiting for people to walk in your line of fire to pop them off. You need to have some element of risk involved. Especially now that you have the possible ability to OHK EVERY suit in the game! With ultimate power comes ultimate "consequences" (Yes I know it's responsibility but that doesn't fit). You have more power. You need to be in closer. This would be like giving the HMG the range of the Rail Rifle. There has to be a give and take. If you die to much in CQC, change your tactics. Change your gun. Run in squads. Try different things Thokk Kill. Thokk Crush. Thokk Smash.
Vulpes Dolosus Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2148	Posted - 2014.09.26 03:47:00 - [29] - Quote This is why I want the redline removed entirely. Replace it with some bubble shields or bunkers you can't shoot out of. Make them large enough to call vehicles or give the spawn pads or something. Dust was real! I was there!
Mike De Luca STOP TRYING TO RECRUIT ME 337	Posted - 2014.09.26 03:58:00 - [30] - Quote Thokk Nightshade wrote: "I had balance because I could sit there and I could kill people and I did get killed and I am happy with it so, "Balance" In all fairness Thokk, that's about 90% of all post balancing arguments for you know, everything lol what i think of when charging fg

Thokk Nightshade KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND 602	Posted - 2014.09.26 04:03:00 - [31] - Quote Mike De Luca wrote: Thokk Nightshade wrote: "I had balance because I could sit there and I could kill people and I didn't get killed and I am happy with it so, "Balance" In all fairness Thokk, that's about 90% of all post balancing arguments for you know, everything lol True. So, so true. BURST HMG: OP! RR: OP! ScR: OP! Make everyone melee. Oops, Melee is OP! Thokk Kill. Thokk Crush. Thokk Smash.
Henrietta Unknown CREATURES OF THE NIGHT 313	Posted - 2014.09.26 04:32:00 - [32] - Quote Don't know where to take this. The Cal Commando is forced to snipe within a burnzone, so he has to rely on a fine rifle for backup and have a Scout share passives, or else get the inevitable SG to the back. For some reason, I find the mechanic of the Standard-mode sniper rifles to be inconvenient as opposed to the Tactical. Or maybe it's just CCP's way of effectively separating the roles of the Tact. and Heavy-hitter sniper rifles (close ranged vs long ranged). So now I'm hopping around the Domination maps to take advantage of windows of opportunity (a swarm of reds flanking the objective? Warn my squad while simultaneously taking out one or two reds until they shoot in my direction). My fit, a Calscout with no hP addition save a Complex Shield, has to fit precision mods, range amplifiers, and damps to pass by those scout squads infesting every corner of the map. For me, it's the only viable way to go, and I'll bet more people will find this so. BTW, I've been sniped by a Charged sniper from halfway across the map. Dunno if the range on that is extensive or not, but at least complaining snipers have something to fall back on. Henrietta Reborn
Maken Tosch Dust University Ivy League 9549	Posted - 2014.09.26 04:37:00 - [33] - Quote I guess this is where players like me come in. Since I enjoy running deep into the redline chasing after snipers, I'll try my best to pick up the slack left behind by other counter snipers. Unfortunately, this all means it's no longer a challenge for me. Before the range nerf, redline Thale snipers use to be an extreme challenge because you needed to sprint at least two football fields into the redline before the 20 second timer is up and there was no guarantee you were able to get them if the elevation between you and them was big enough. Nowadays, since they now have to be closer to the edge of the redline, it's just not going to be same anymore. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Louis Domi Pradox One Proficiency V. 670	Posted - 2014.09.26 04:56:00 - [34] - Quote I snipe in my other teams redline... Does that count? Only way to end redline everything(tanks, snipers, etc...) is to remove the redline, Or push the redline far back... Like really far back... I'm talking about 1-2 km back... Also countersniping should be better now, basically ohk head shot. Unless they are in one of those places where you can't get a good look at the sniper(Mountains sometimes do this)
Louis Domi Pradox One Proficiency V. 670	Posted - 2014.09.26 04:58:00 - [35] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: I guess this is where players like me come in. Since I enjoy running deep into the redline chasing after snipers, I'll try my best to pick up the slack left behind by other counter snipers. Unfortunately, this all means it's no longer a challenge for me. Before the range nerf, redline Thale snipers use to be an extreme challenge because you needed to sprint at least two football fields into the redline before the 20 second timer is up and there was no guarantee you were able to get them if the elevation between you and them was big enough. Nowadays, since they now have to be closer to the edge of the redline, it's just not going to be same anymore. The struggle... of not having a struggle...
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 9552	Posted - 2014.09.26 07:30:00 - [36] - Quote Louis Domi wrote: Maken Tosch wrote: I guess this is where players like me come in. Since I enjoy running deep into the redline chasing after snipers, I'll try my best to pick up the slack left behind by other counter snipers. Unfortunately, this all means it's no longer a challenge for me. Before the range nerf, redline Thale snipers use to be an extreme challenge because you needed to sprint at least two football fields into the redline before the 20 second timer is up and there was no guarantee you were able to get them if the elevation between you and them was big enough. Nowadays, since they now have to be closer to the edge of the redline, it's just not going to be same anymore. The struggle... of not having a struggle... It's. Too. EASY! On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
nicholas73 Glitched Connection 222	Posted - 2014.09.26 08:18:00 - [37] - Quote Another problem is the maps, with the 450m range, the sniper has to crawl out of the redline but this is rare. Most of the maps are small and 450 m cover atleast 2/3 of the maps, in some like Ashlands you can snipe from one end to the other. I dunno what to say about this, maybe decrease the redline, I know it used to be less before and then they increased it to prevent redline camping (like it was effective ). Please put the redline back to the good old days. Make a bubble shield or something to prevent redline camping. Proud member of Glitched Connection
Mike De Luca STOP TRYING TO RECRUIT ME 337	Posted - 2014.09.26 12:39:00 - [38] - Quote Thokk Nightshade wrote: Mike De Luca wrote: Thokk Nightshade wrote: "I had balance because I could sit there and I could kill people and I didn't get killed and I am happy with it so, "Balance" In all fairness Thokk, that's about 90% of all post balancing arguments for you know, everything lol True. So, so true. BURST HMG: OP! RR: OP! ScR: OP! Make everyone melee. Oops, Melee is OP! I still want my confetti gun lol what i think of when charging fg
TechMechMeds KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 6052	Posted - 2014.09.26 13:30:00 - [39] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I would agree with the idea of punishing effort within the redline cept one major problem. How do you know you're out of your own redline? So now, less than 2 years later, you can go up on a small hill in Manus Peak and look West, and with the right kind of eyes you can almost see the mountainGÇöthat place where the Snipers finally broke and rolled back. "An abnormally heightened consciousness of one's self, which leads to a viscous circle of heightened awareness of self."
Fizzer XCIV Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 306	Posted - 2014.09.26 13:43:00 - [40] - Quote For every meter that a sniper is into the redline, their damage is cut by 1% of their total damage. That would put a real quick end to redline sniping.

Lonewolf Heavy Chaotic Company 130	Posted - 2014.09.26 14:42:00 - [41] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I would agree with the idea of punishing effort within the redline cept one major problem. How do you know you're out of your own redline? Only other major problem i can think of is what happens when a team gets red lined and are trapped inside? Why would you punish a team who are unable to get out of the redline? Blueberries are delicious and an essential part of my diet ;) Commando/Heavy Willing to PC for anyone for a low price
Orphan Shadow Waiting For Deployment 81	Posted - 2014.09.26 14:58:00 - [42] - Quote Lloyd Orfay wrote: No one seems to care for the fact that ADS are still invincible Hey man, I just want to point out ADS was declared DEAD by the pilot community an hour after Delta went live. So, please don't worry about them anymore. I think they are going to be removed from the market since since like nobody uses them anymore, because they are dead and stuff.
Kensai Dragon DUST University Ivy League 5	Posted - 2014.09.26 16:14:00 - [43] - Quote Lonewolf Heavy wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I would agree with the idea of punishing effort within the redline cept one major problem. How do you know you're out of your own redline? Only other major problem i can think of is what happens when a team gets red lined and are trapped inside? Why would you punish a team who are unable to get out of the redline? Exactly, how do you balance between a red line camper and a team getting stomped into the red line. Seriously, I've been killed straight from the MCC drop. Should my shots be penalized because of that? Kind of sounds like Warbarge logic- 'you're already beating the snot out of the other team, let's kick them again, and by the way here's some salt to pour in there'. How about a countdown timer to shot damage diminishment. Similar to the opposite red line, give 20 seconds to move out or your damage drops by 5%/second giving an additional 20 seconds to cross over. If you're truly trapped in your red line, you're probably dead in about that amount of time anyways. Trust me, I've been stomped back on more than a few occasions, lol. Getting killed at your 'safe' spawn point sucks, lol
Jathniel G I A N T 1166	Posted - 2014.09.26 16:39:00 - [44] - Quote I've observed that the redline snipers don't matter anymore. They can't cover an entire map. If they are deep in the redline, they aren't going to hit anyone... not that they know that. And if they are hitting anyone from the redline, they are usually really close to the edge. Either way, get over the fact that someone is going to snipe you, and often from a position you don't like it. Set your goals high, and shoot for the moon; even if you miss you'll land amongst the stars.
Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 495	Posted - 2014.09.26 19:13:00 - [45] - Quote ok lets punish them for being in the red line, lets also take away war points for every meter they are away from their target. we could add a tax onto snipers in every round, increase the cost of sniper rifles to 1 million isk for basic, make all sniper rifles salvage only, finish off the range nerf they still fire too far.. it should be 10m, and we can make it so they get feedback damage on every round, reduce their damage to 5 hp per shot, increase their sway, make them explode if the sniper gets hit at all, make it have a massive db for passive scans. look the point i'm actually making is that you can't just say "punish them for firing from the red line" whilst still having the majority of places to snipe from in the red line. if you want to take that approach without changes to the positions of high points then you might aswell get rid of them all together.. maybe just make them all like bolt rifles. Also why wasn't that the approach as opposed to range nerfs? i know that there were snipers saying this would be the case before the hf.. i was one of them. i'll reiterate.. redline is not a synonym for sniper. they are not the same thing. and as i said then redline sniping is a symptom not a cause. reducing sniper range for redline sniping is like taking pain killers to cure toothache.. it takes the pain away but it won't fix the problem.
nicholas73 Glitched Connection 224	Posted - 2014.09.26 20:26:00 - [46] - Quote Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote: nicholas73 wrote: ...unproductive to them team, our team lost cause we had 5 snipers redline sniping. And not coming out to defend the objective. The changes are really good but it has not changed the fact that snipers still snipe from the redline in a carefree fashion. I thought the change will bring them out from the redline but that is not the case. Actually its has become more tough to counter-snipe them, cause you have to do so in from the middle of the battlefield. I demand the sniper rifle damage be halved and headshot multiplier negated when in the redline. Actually this should apply to redline railgun tanks as well (not as prominent as before but can still be found). Gasp! Who would have ever thought that people who play casually would... GASP Play casually?!? OMG what a disruption! Oh also, I see you're one of those "redline is everything wrong with the world" kind of people. You're kind of late to the party, and because everyone else can figure out a way around your "problem" such as sniping back... Nobody really believes your kind anymore. You know it was ok before delta cause I should snipe them back from a relatively safe position but because of the range decrease, to counter snipe a redline sniper I'll have to be in the middle of the map vulnerable to everything, while the guy in the redline continues to snipe without any threat. Proud member of Glitched Connection
Dovallis Martan JenusKoll Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 1026	Posted - 2014.09.26 21:25:00 - [47] - Quote Kensai Dragon wrote: Lonewolf Heavy wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I would agree with the idea of punishing effort within the redline cept one major problem. How do you know you're out of your own redline? Only other major problem i can think of is what happens when a team gets red lined and are trapped inside? Why would you punish a team who are unable to get out of the redline? Exactly, how do you balance between a red line camper and a team getting stomped into the red line. Seriously, I've been killed straight from the MCC drop. Should my shots be penalized because of that? Kind of sounds like Warbarge logic- 'you're already beating the snot out of the other team, let's kick them again, and by the way here's some salt to pour in there'. How about a countdown timer to shot damage diminishment. Similar to the opposite red line, give 20 seconds to move out or your damage drops by 5%/second giving an additional 20 seconds to cross over. If you're truly trapped in your red line, you're probably dead in about that amount of time anyways. Trust me, I've been stomped back on more than a few occasions, lol. Getting killed at your 'safe' spawn point sucks, lol ...... ...... ..... Orange Line. Idea stated January 2014? Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote: Or... one could simply retune the Redline instead of removing it in entirety... First by extending the area of all prior Redline areas back a ways, and then designating it with an orange border to differentiate the regions. However, if you travel into the enemy orange line the further you go the LESS your maximum armor and shield become, and if you exit the orange, they restore to normal. If you've ever played Runescape and tried the "Wilderness" before you'd know how these advancing regions work, but instead of going up a wilderness level, the affected party looses max HP relative to the tier they enter... so.. Outside of orange 100% all stats, Area 1 --90% shield and armor (largest region mainly for deployment) Area 2 (within handheld range of spawn) -50% shield and armor and -10% weapon damage Area 3 (inside spawn proximity regions) -80% shield and armor and - 30% weapon damage Defenses would be indestructible very-short-range manual turret systems that can target things within the orange region only, but loose power if the target is in a lower ranked region. This way the complainers could run into the orange line to deal with troops/tanks they feel to be problematic. Would probably promote heavily dampened scouts. Example, If I had 100 shield and 100 armor, and ran into area 3, I would be left with 20 shield and 20 armor, and would not be able to heal over that until I left into area 2, then I would be able to heal back up to 50/50... and upon leaving all zones would be back to 100/100 maximum possible healing. Zone auras are unable to kill players. http://youtu.be/dtXupQg77SU Dust to Dust Remember the dream you had before the day you were born.
Thokk Nightshade KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND 603	Posted - 2014.09.26 22:00:00 - [48] - Quote Mike De Luca wrote: Thokk Nightshade wrote: Mike De Luca wrote: Thokk Nightshade wrote: "I had balance because I could sit there and I could kill people and I didn't get killed and I am happy with it so, "Balance" In all fairness Thokk, that's about 90% of all post balancing arguments for you know, everything lol True. So, so true. BURST HMG: OP! RR: OP! ScR: OP! Make everyone melee. Oops, Melee is OP! I still want my confetti gun lol It will be OP! But so awesome! You can have that if I can get one that shoots Rainbows and cotton candy. Thokk Kill. Thokk Crush. Thokk Smash.
Thokk Nightshade KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND 603	Posted - 2014.09.26 22:14:00 - [49] - Quote Snake Sellors wrote: ok lets punish them for being in the red line, lets also take away war points for every meter they are away from their target. we could add a tax onto snipers in every round, increase the cost of sniper rifles to 1 million isk for basic, make all sniper rifles salvage only, finish off the range nerf they still fire too far.. it should be 10m, and we can make it so they get feedback damage on every round, reduce their damage to 5 hp per shot, increase their sway, make them explode if the sniper gets hit at all, make it have a massive db for passive scans. look the point i'm actually making is that you can't just say "punish them for firing from the red line" whilst still having the majority of places to snipe from in the red line. if you want to take that approach without changes to the positions of high points then you might aswell get rid of them all together.. maybe just make them all like bolt rifles. Also why wasn't that the approach as opposed to range nerfs? i know that there were snipers saying this would be the case before the hf.. i was one of them. i'll reiterate.. redline is not a synonym for sniper. they are not the same thing. and as i said then redline sniping is a symptom not a cause. reducing sniper range for redline sniping is like taking pain killers to cure toothache.. it takes the pain away but it won't fix the problem. I agree with you on this one for the most part Snake. You and Forks are the two snipers I respect the opinions of over everyone else. However, the problem with your suggestion is we KNOW we aren't going to get any new maps. We are not going to get any changes to the maps/hills/high points/etc to give Snipers viable vantage points in a location people (targets, not snipers) will not complain about. So since we know we aren't going to get the changes we all want and need, what kind of proposals do you have for "fixing" this issue. I don't know if there really is a true fix other than map overhauls, but I'm interested in your ideas/suggestions. Like I had mentioned, for me it isn't that much of an issue because 75% of my kills are within 250 meters anyways. Always have been. But I know there are some snipers who do like to use that extra distance. Thokk Kill. Thokk Crush. Thokk Smash.
Sharrissa Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation 2	Posted - 2014.09.26 22:37:00 - [50] - Quote Raptor Princess wrote: As has been pointed out, there are few points outside of the redline in some maps from which to snipe. The change to range has made some good non-redline spots unviable but I've seen mcc snipers getting plenty kills in other maps. I tried to counter-snipe a guy on a tower in the map with 6 towers, and couldn't unless I left the hills across from said tower. By moving closer, I lost the angle and so couldn't shoot him. I hate sniping from up there, but it looks like a really good spot to sit if you want to avoid dying now! Has kinda stolen a lot of my prospective kills though- I used to love sitting across from a set of towers and getting headshot after headshot. I refuse to accept that snipers are useless - they can see loads from their perches and shout it out to their squad members. And because it's easy to see invisibles while looking through the scope, they can warn teammates about the impending shotgunner. Some maps have good spots to see right into an objective and so the sniper can watch for people approaching. Sure, they might not die as much or take as many risks, but snipers definitely have a place in Dust. (And I like being a nuisance! How many heavies have orbitals dropped on them alone because they're annoying the enemy so much?!) Bravo! Well spoken & valid points! Of course, I am a sniper myself so the praise is a little biased but still valid because I have done very much the same when sniping.

Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 496	Posted - 2014.09.27 19:29:00 - [51] - Quote Thokk Nightshade wrote: Snake Sellors wrote: ok lets punish them for being in the red line, lets also take away war points for every meter they are away from their target. we could add a tax onto snipers in every round, increase the cost of sniper rifles to 1 million isk for basic, make all sniper rifles salvage only, finish off the range nerf they still fire too far.. it should be 10m, and we can make it so they get feedback damage on every round, reduce their damage to 5 hp per shot, increase their sway, make them explode if the sniper gets hit at all, make it have a massive db for passive scans. look the point i'm actually making is that you can't just say "punish them for firing from the red line" whilst still having the majority of places to snipe from in the red line. if you want to take that approach without changes to the positions of high points then you might aswell get rid of them all together.. maybe just make them all like bolt rifles. Also why wasn't that the approach as opposed to range nerfs? i know that there were snipers saying this would be the case before the hf.. i was one of them. i'll reiterate.. redline is not a synonym for sniper. they are not the same thing. and as i said then redline sniping is a symptom not a cause. reducing sniper range for redline sniping is like taking pain killers to cure toothache.. it takes the pain away but it won't fix the problem. I agree with you on this one for the most part Snake. You and Forks are the two snipers I respect the opinions of over everyone else. However, the problem with your suggestion is we KNOW we aren't going to get any new maps. We are not going to get any changes to the maps/hills/high points/etc to give Snipers viable vantage points in a location people (targets, not snipers) will not complain about. So since we know we aren't going to get the changes we all want and need, what kind of proposals do you have for "fixing" this issue. I don't know if there really is a true fix other than map overhauls, but I'm interested in your ideas/suggestions. Like I had mentioned, for me it isn't that much of an issue because 75% of my kills are within 250 meters anyways. Always have been. But I know there are some snipers who do like to use that extra distance. Thanks thokk. Don't get me wrong they weren't suggestions just wanted to point out the oversights. that said if I was to try to fix it at the moment with hotfixes my approach would of been 1 never to of given any heavy frame bonuses (i say this because they should of been scouts...I would not change this now too many people have put sp in to the suit just for sniping..& it would require a respec) 2 never decrease range.. but i would of made the range have 400 effective and the original absolute range which would of still had it's headshot bonus. 3 fix the rendering issues 4 fix the ret so that it only goes red on an actual hit 5 increase the timer on redline visits but add a penalty for return visits (just to avoid people rushing the mcc spawns) 6 if possible remove red line from above the mcc or at least reduce it (slightly different) 7 reduce sway & recoil on the tactical. it needs to be a real option for ranges UP TO it's 350. the way i picture it would be.. it is ok to snipe from far away, they are snipers.... it would come at the cost of efficiency. snipers would as a rule pick a light frame which would tie in to the headshot bonus of a less effective shot.. this would make counter sniping easier particularly given the need for snipers to be still and when you add in the fact that there would be no errors in your red sights.. you would no longer give away that you are aiming at the sniper due to hitting the glitched out terrain in front of them. you would be able to shoot back from anywhere trips into the area just inside the red line (where most snipers would choose to be for higher effect) wouldn't always end in death the mcc would become just another high point-dropships would be able to go up there, pilots could land on either, but going to the enemies would carry the risk of being stranded as bolas wouldn't go there. and the tactical would become the exact rifle that they are trying to be now with more tactical deployment and become a reasonable alternate tactic for sniping that would harder to counter. Personally i think that would be the best solution in present case too even with the commando snipers.. they would still be vulnerable to the long distance headshotds n.b I would never allow cloaks on a sniper in this game.. in others yes but this came wouldn't be able to deal with it only exceptions being the tacticals. hope that helps


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