In all fairness Thokk, that's about 90% of all post balancing arguments for you know, everything lol

I guess this is where players like me come in. Since I enjoy running deep into the redline chasing after snipers, I'll try my best to pick up the slack left behind by other counter snipers.

Unfortunately, this all means it's no longer a challenge for me. Before the range nerf, redline Thale snipers use to be an extreme challenge because you needed to sprint at least two football fields into the redline before the 20 second timer is up and there was no guarantee you were able to get them if the elevation between you and them was big enough. Nowadays, since they now have to be closer to the edge of the redline, it's just not going to be same anymore.

The struggle... of not having a struggle...

True. So, so true.

BURST HMG: OP!
RR: OP!
ScR: OP!

Make everyone melee. Oops, Melee is OP!

I would agree with the idea of punishing effort within the redline cept one major problem.

How do you know you're out of your own redline?

I would agree with the idea of punishing effort within the redline cept one major problem.

How do you know you're out of your own redline?

No one seems to care for the fact that ADS are still invincible

Only other major problem i can think of is what happens when a team gets red lined and are trapped inside? Why would you punish a team who are unable to get out of the redline?

Gasp! Who would have ever thought that people who play casually would... *GASP* Play casually?!? OMG what a disruption!

Oh also, I see you're one of those "redline is everything wrong with the world" kind of people. You're kind of late to the party, and because everyone else can figure out a way around your "problem" such as sniping back... Nobody really believes your kind anymore.

Exactly, how do you balance between a red line camper and a team getting stomped into the red line. Seriously, I've been killed straight from the MCC drop. Should my shots be penalized because of that? Kind of sounds like Warbarge logic- 'you're already beating the snot out of the other team, let's kick them again, and by the way here's some salt to pour in there'.

How about a countdown timer to shot damage diminishment. Similar to the opposite red line, give 20 seconds to move out or your damage drops by 5%/second giving an additional 20 seconds to cross over. If you're truly trapped in your red line, you're probably dead in about that amount of time anyways. Trust me, I've been stomped back on more than a few occasions, lol. Getting killed at your 'safe' spawn point sucks, lol

Or... one could simply retune the Redline instead of removing it in entirety...
First by extending the area of all prior Redline areas back a ways, and then designating it with an orange border to differentiate the regions.

However, if you travel into the enemy orange line the further you go the LESS your maximum armor and shield become, and if you exit the orange, they restore to normal.

If you've ever played Runescape and tried the "Wilderness" before you'd know how these advancing regions work, but instead of going up a wilderness level, the affected party looses max HP relative to the tier they enter... so..
Outside of orange 100% all stats,
Area 1 --90% shield and armor (largest region mainly for deployment)
Area 2 (within handheld range of spawn) -50% shield and armor and -10% weapon damage
Area 3 (inside spawn proximity regions) -80% shield and armor and - 30% weapon damage

Defenses would be indestructible very-short-range manual turret systems that can target things within the orange region only, but loose power if the target is in a lower ranked region.

This way the complainers could run into the orange line to deal with troops/tanks they feel to be problematic. Would probably promote heavily dampened scouts.

Example,
If I had 100 shield and 100 armor, and ran into area 3, I would be left with 20 shield and 20 armor, and would not be able to heal over that until I left into area 2, then I would be able to heal back up to 50/50... and upon leaving all zones would be back to 100/100 maximum possible healing.
Zone auras are unable to kill players.

I still want my confetti gun lol

ok lets punish them for being in the red line, lets also take away war points for every meter they are away from their target.
we could add a tax onto snipers in every round, increase the cost of sniper rifles to 1 million isk for basic, make all sniper rifles salvage only, finish off the range nerf they still fire too far.. it should be 10m, and we can make it so they get feedback damage on every round, reduce their damage to 5 hp per shot, increase their sway, make them explode if the sniper gets hit at all, make it have a massive db for passive scans.

look the point i'm actually making is that you can't just say "punish them for firing from the red line" whilst still having the majority of places to snipe from in the red line.

if you want to take that approach without changes to the positions of high points then you might aswell get rid of them all together.. maybe just make them all like bolt rifles.

Also why wasn't that the approach as opposed to range nerfs?
i know that there were snipers saying this would be the case before the hf.. i was one of them.

i'll reiterate..
redline is not a synonym for sniper.
they are not the same thing.

and as i said then
redline sniping is a symptom not a cause.

reducing sniper range for redline sniping is like taking pain killers to cure toothache..
it takes the pain away but it won't fix the problem.

As has been pointed out, there are few points outside of the redline in some maps from which to snipe. The change to range has made some good non-redline spots unviable but I've seen mcc snipers getting plenty kills in other maps.

I tried to counter-snipe a guy on a tower in the map with 6 towers, and couldn't unless I left the hills across from said tower. By moving closer, I lost the angle and so couldn't shoot him. I hate sniping from up there, but it looks like a really good spot to sit if you want to avoid dying now! Has kinda stolen a lot of my prospective kills though- I used to love sitting across from a set of towers and getting headshot after headshot.

I refuse to accept that snipers are useless - they can see loads from their perches and shout it out to their squad members. And because it's easy to see invisibles while looking through the scope, they can warn teammates about the impending shotgunner. Some maps have good spots to see right into an objective and so the sniper can watch for people approaching. Sure, they might not die as much or take as many risks, but snipers definitely have a place in Dust. (And I like being a nuisance! How many heavies have orbitals dropped on them alone because they're annoying the enemy so much?!)

I agree with you on this one for the most part Snake. You and Forks are the two snipers I respect the opinions of over everyone else. However, the problem with your suggestion is we KNOW we aren't going to get any new maps. We are not going to get any changes to the maps/hills/high points/etc to give Snipers viable vantage points in a location people (targets, not snipers) will not complain about.

So since we know we aren't going to get the changes we all want and need, what kind of proposals do you have for "fixing" this issue. I don't know if there really is a true fix other than map overhauls, but I'm interested in your ideas/suggestions. Like I had mentioned, for me it isn't that much of an issue because 75% of my kills are within 250 meters anyways. Always have been. But I know there are some snipers who do like to use that extra distance.