No

What do peeps think about multiplying WP payouts for kills & assists but by the ratio of the two player's -¦ scores? e.g., if i kill 13ear I get approx 325 WP and if he kills me he gets approx 12 WP because of our relative -¦ scores. Thoughts?

So we should get **** for WP and shouldn't bother playing anymore..

Depends who you're fighting, i suppose. The two mechanics proposed work together.

High -¦ players could up their WP payout in pubs by running lower meta gear. We could calibrate payouts such that if a player of any meta was to run standard gear they'd be guaranteed full WP payouts.

If matchmaking / squad balancing is working correctly, you should be placed in matches with other mercs who are close to your mu score anyway. This just adds complication without adding depth.

TL;DR - No.

The -¦ score of players varies considerably in a match, what we're really balancing is teams, not individual -¦.

This would meat that a high -¦ player or squad would have to step up and face the tough guys on the other team for full wp payout. But that's really what you'd do anyway if you were trying to win the match: protect your blueberries.

Seems like a limitation without a problem...why do this at all..would just punish all older players and kill the game faster

How do you address the issue of knowing what mu score you are firing at? How would a new player even know if the player he was blasting was a veteran or another new player like him?

Also, you are insane if you think this will slow veterans from killing new players. In fact, given the New Eden universe, I bet there would be some vets who would go out of their way to pulverize players with a lower mu score.

Side note: I am fairly certain that we are placed in matches with players who have mu scores close to ours. I know the word "close" isn't very scientific, but we probably not given the brackets for matches on purpose.

You don't know -¦, but every experienced player in this game immediately recognizes a tough fight when they see one.

The primary motivating factor is the NPE in DUST. The draconian solution is to separate players but that's a bad suggestion because it isolates players and denies them the opportunity to learn from better players.

So the question is how do we keep highly experienced protogeared squads and militia/std noobs in the same matches?

High -¦ Players are rightfully reacting to reduced WP payouts, so let's put a floor on the system: WP payouts based on delta -¦ can't go below 40 WP for kills and 20 WP for assists.

Does that sound more reasonable?

Yeah F-that. Why should someone who's been playing longer be penalized? That's a sorry way to bridge SP gap.

NOOBS MUST:
1 GET GOOD
2 RUN IN SQUADS
3 DEDICATE THEMSELVES TO ONE ROLE
4 RAISE ALL CORES
5 STOP COMPLAINING AND LOOK AT # 1

And if they are smart, they will avoid the tough fight and go for the easy prey. Taking the path of least resistance is human nature.

Proof of concept:

I blap TitanaticPowerNine with my ScR: KILL +15
"Ha. Newberry..."
I see him again. I will still kill him... probably very easily... as he is a new player: KILL +15
Has this reduction of WP's kept me from killing him? No.

the solution is to increase the scrubs time in scrub academy..and boost starting sp..not put in a factor that ruins the gameplay for everyone who has suffered and stuck with dust

When was the last time you stopped to see who and what your shooting at before you engage unless your a cloaked and damped scout? Most of us shoot first and ask questions later because other wise your dead.

The only way this may help is to discourage players from trolling the edges of the map looking for easy prey. But then again they are looking for easy prey so the lower WP prolly won't bother them.

So I think it may have marginal affects to benefit new players but not enough to be worth the effort.

[quote=Vrain Matari]The -¦ score of players varies considerably in a match, what we're really balancing is teams, not individual -¦.

Also, you are insane if you think this will slow veterans from killing new players. In fact, given the New Eden universe, I bet there would be some vets who would go out of their way to pulverize players with a lower mu score.

Since CCP Rattati has mentioned that the DUST team is going to be looking at WP & the cancerous passive in-match sp payouts aaaand we have been looking for a holisic way to separate the monstrous noob-destroying protovets from our tender new players.....

What do peeps think about multiplying WP payouts for kills & assists but by the ratio of the two player's -¦ scores?

e.g., if i kill 13ear i get approx 325 WP and if he kills me he gets approx 12 WP because of our relative -¦ scores.

Edit for modification: Minimum WP payout for ultra-mu players 40 WP per kill, 20 WP for assist.

Thoughts?

Addition from post # 3 below:

If matchmaking / squad balancing is working correctly, you should be placed in matches with other mercs who are close to your mu score anyway.

Why would an employer of mercenaries pay his best employees the worst money? Not to mention all good players would immediately dump the game.

I think it should be based upon the gear the player is wearing and less on the SP of the players.

So if a long term vet is trying to challenge himself by running starter fits and killing newer players with enough SP to have proto suits, then that vet should get the greater WP for having a greater challenge.

This would also affect new players who don't have enough skill for higher tier items, as they could get more WP for those proto bear kills.

I don't think vets should be outright nerfed, especially if they are not proto stomping.

That's a good point, and this proposal is not about nerfing vets, it's about two related goals:

1) giving low mu players an incentive program that is based on what they accomplish on the battlefield

2) creating game mechanics that encourage peeps to look for harder fights.

The mu ratio multiplier is meant to encourage both points, the minimum WP payout is meant to protect vets, and the gear meta multiplier is meant to reward players who are looking for hard mode.

Quick Questions

Lets pretend that i go proto in order to kill a guy.
Think Frostkitty,1st LT tibs,Aldin Khan level good players.
Say i do get the kill BUT im hurt bad in the duel and a guy spawns then SRs me.
Who would get rewarded more?
Me for killing a big threat(we were both proto) or the guy that spawned and standard scrambled a hurt proto minscout?

Another thing about the lower tier suit killing the higher tier suit mechanic
How would support Logis fit into this?
A lot use higher tiered suits for survivablity and more equipment.
They would get the same amount of WPs but slayers would get an increased payout for killing them?

Good questions, let's see:

In your first example, depending on your mu, you'd get a pretty good WP payout for killing any of those guys. They'd most likely be running proto also, so the payout would be neutral there.

The guy who spawns in with the SR would get the mu ratio multiplier(the likelihood of this giving him Bonus WP depends on the proportion of enemy players with a lower mu than you in that match), but he would get a buff to WP based on the gear meta differential(but that would average out over time because the next guy who spawns in while you're in bad shape might be packing higher meta than you, depends what average meta you run tbh).

You've presented a valid case, but a special one. If we imagine all possible case and integrate over all of them, i think we all come to the same intuitive conclusion: all-proto all-the-time high mu players might do a little bit worse, maybe 10% less WP over a match. Low mu or low meta players will do much better, and low mu low meta players who are winning engagements and getting big bonuses won't be low mu for long ;)

The Logi example is much tougher for this proposed system to deal with and as stated this system is unfair to Logis re combat WP payouts. We can look at what we do now: support/triage WP are to a large extent calibrated around what slayers can make in a match. We could do the same again: Calibrate logi support WP to compensate for the hit they take under this mechanic. So while the proposed mechanic is unfair to them, we could make it up with triage/support WP buffs(maybe specific to Logis, dunno right now).

we don't really have the population to filter mu matchmaking. i'm already waiting 5+ minutes to join a pub as it is.

100% agreed. The worst thing we could do is break up the player base. Also, the single shard is probably the biggest single thing that New Eden has going for it.

The whole motivation for this system is to keep everyone together but also find a natural way to address the imbalances that come with mixing seal pups with sharks.

I think it should be based upon the gear the player is wearing and less on the SP of the players.

So if a long term vet is trying to challenge himself by running starter fits and killing newer players with enough SP to have proto suits, then that vet should get the greater WP for having a greater challenge.

This would also affect new players who don't have enough skill for higher tier items, as they could get more WP for those proto bear kills.

I don't think vets should be outright nerfed, especially if they are not proto stomping.