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Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 907	Posted - 2014.09.17 14:47:00 - [1] - Quote assault suits are completely overshadowed by the pros vs cons between assault and scout.. assault suits seem to just be a stopgap for player skilling up "dropsuit upgrades" so they can have a super powered scout suit, lets have a look at scouts.. SHARED passive scans tiny hitbox fast as hell massive regen can fit adequate tank while having "slayer" fittings (rifle+side) EWAR superiority even with out ewar moduals equipped 2 equipment slots now lets look at what the assault does better... nothing really unless you want to become a bricked out tortoise which needs logi support to stay alive as slow=dead now.. what do YOU the community feel about this? OP "assault-scout" video showing how OP it can be and IS [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 1 Forum Pariah What ever happened to buffing Logi eHP in Delta?!
Thumb Green Raymond James Corp 1467	Posted - 2014.09.17 15:12:00 - [2] - Quote Shared passive scans make sense, I don't see why they wouldn't be able to share them with how advanced their technology is. Then again we're talking about people that still use iron sights as standard issue. Hell, their sonars can't even pick up gunfire. We don't kick ass, we kick dick and we kick it hard. Join us in our Pumpkin Crushing
Joel II X Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 3450	Posted - 2014.09.17 15:13:00 - [3] - Quote Information is OP. Since scouts deal with this, they seem OP. Speed is mostly a nonfactor nowadays save for major differences in strafe speeds. I would take out some CPU/PG and the extra equipment slot from every scout/frame. Will this stop the QQ? No, but it'll slow it down. I'd also change the bonuses up a bit (just the numbers, not their skill set). except make the Caldari and Gallente Scout more "unique"by separating the damp bonus and having the scout blanket bonus to give a 75% Reduction to cloak throughout all tiers.
Joel II X Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 3450	Posted - 2014.09.17 15:13:00 - [4] - Quote Thumb Green wrote: Shared passive scans make sense, I don't see why they wouldn't be able to share them with how advanced their technology is. Then again we're talking about people that still use iron sights as standard issue. Hell, their sonars can't even pick up gunfire. I want the camera sights back!
man- bear pig D3ATH CARD 24	Posted - 2014.09.17 15:14:00 - [5] - Quote Please don't **** talk my assaults to try to prove your point about scouts being OP.
Sequal Rise Les Desanusseurs 51	Posted - 2014.09.17 15:22:00 - [6] - Quote Amarr assault with 4 comp ferroscale plate +1 comp reactive + lvl 5 biotic and speed+ 3 comp damager + viziam scrambler + ishukone aSMG + proto ishukone hives= fast suit, extremely powerful, lots of HP (1000ish), ammo for you and your team, a bit of rep. The only con is that it doesn't have a built in wallhack. But scouts are made for this ^^ Sorry for my bad english ^^
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3182	Posted - 2014.09.17 15:23:00 - [7] - Quote What would you change to make Assaults perform better than Scouts in the Assaulting role then? Hotfix Delta Sentinel eHP Calcs
man- bear pig D3ATH CARD 25	Posted - 2014.09.17 15:32:00 - [8] - Quote I don't know, I don't run scout. I'm just saying don't down play assault just because you don't know how to use them.
Kierkegaard Soren THE HANDS OF DEATH 510	Posted - 2014.09.17 15:34:00 - [9] - Quote Assaults get weapon bonuses that make them shine when fitted intelligently, but if agree that scouts are just better killers in all the ways that matter; speed, stealth, utility and firepower, not to mention the EWAR. But I still think they've been done properly. We just need to boost assaults so they can stay in fight longer; built in regen or a boost to armour/shield regen modules would be nice :) Dedicated Commando. "He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing." -Paul Atreides.
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 908	Posted - 2014.09.17 15:42:00 - [10] - Quote Thumb Green wrote: Shared passive scans make sense, I don't see why they wouldn't be able to share them with how advanced their technology is. Then again we're talking about people that still use iron sights as standard issue. Hell, their sonars can't even pick up gunfire. shared passive scans basically nullifies active scanners and makes them useless. but basically i forget which race but one of them can get 100m range on passive scans easly and in a 360degree. that is more then anything that an active scanner could do [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 1 Forum Pariah What ever happened to buffing Logi eHP in Delta?!

Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4856	Posted - 2014.09.17 15:44:00 - [11] - Quote Doesn't matter how much HP you give assault suits. Nothing trumps wallhacks. Nothing.
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 908	Posted - 2014.09.17 15:46:00 - [12] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Doesn't matter how much HP you give assault suits. Nothing trumps wallhacks. Nothing. yes and no.. its the combo of small hitbox, speed, able to fit adequate tank hide from passive and most active scanners* and also see most every suit on the map with in 100m in 360 degree which seems more OP then just the "wall hacks" [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 1 Forum Pariah What ever happened to buffing Logi eHP in Delta?!
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 908	Posted - 2014.09.17 15:53:00 - [13] - Quote Kierkegaard Soren wrote: Assaults get weapon bonuses that make them shine when fitted intelligently, but if agree that scouts are just better killers in all the ways that matter; speed, stealth, utility and firepower, not to mention the EWAR. But I still think they've been done properly. We just need to boost assaults so they can stay in fight longer; built in regen or a boost to armour/shield regen modules would be nice :) i specialize in medium suits and no matter which weapon the bonus dosnt really do anything for them if they are against scouts who can hide form tacnet/passive and still see you have about similar ehp and still have the usual rifle+sidearm but i think this is a bigger problem then just scouts still being better then assaults.. this goes to a whole problem with tacnet and info shareing... "shared passive scans" are vastly superior and infinatly more useful then active scanners are.. oen needs to be level 5 gal-logi and use proto focused active scanner to even FIND a scout.. and thats if they are not useing a cloak and ewar active scanners need a buff to find scouts with out gimping your suit.. and scout passive "wallhacks" need a nerf aswell as a tweek on the whole "shared passive scan" needs to be nerfed to 15-20m and "active scan" needs to be shared with entire team AND get points for intel assists +10 for outside of squad and +15 for inside squad [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 1 Forum Pariah What ever happened to buffing Logi eHP in Delta?!
Bright Steel Horizons' Edge Proficiency V. 88	Posted - 2014.09.17 16:03:00 - [14] - Quote If we found a way to eliminate tanked scouts the assaults would have a solid place on the battle field even with the shared scans. I remember someone calling for plates to be a percentage increase rather than X amount. It just doesn't make sense that my scout suite can't fit a HMG because it's to heavy but I can fit multiple complex armor plates that more than triples my armor.... The Best Worst game you can't stop playing..... DUST
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 908	Posted - 2014.09.17 16:07:00 - [15] - Quote Kierkegaard Soren wrote: Assaults get weapon bonuses that make them shine when fitted intelligently, but if agree that scouts are just better killers in all the ways that matter; speed, stealth, utility and firepower, not to mention the EWAR. But I still think they've been done properly. We just need to boost assaults so they can stay in fight longer; built in regen or a boost to armour/shield regen modules would be nice :) well the only assault i feel has been done right is the gallente assault.. at advanced level with its +2 armor rep you can build a 3/1 rep to plate and have easly 20-23hp/s rep for armor ontop of its 20 hp/s shield which makes it a good brawler and skirmisher (weapon dependent ofc)AR currently blow but i have hope for delta and AR's tho i feel the general gallente suit HP/s across all suits needs buffing. 5 hp/s across all suits scout, logi, commando, sentinel, assault, and basics. minmatar is sort of like a fatter scout in the way of speed and only speed :/ no ewar no wallhacks and its bonus only seems effective for sidearms or maybe the Full auto CR Only, so you can get 100 bullet clips with dual ASMGs and be completely limited to sub 20m engagements.. to make minmatar assault actually feel minmatar they need even more speed then the other assault suits. caldari dispite being shield tank is a good counter for all those whiners calling CR OP.. but then in the blink of an eye you can get your entire tank taken to 0 with a flux grenade or a charged shot of a ScR(currently not sure about delta). even with current rail rifles the weakness of suit vs strength of weapon used feels unbalanced like 70/30 as for amarr they do have more ehp then the others but i feel they are rather lacking overall if not running with logi support AND bricked.. while flexable in the sence they can easly be 100% armor and use highs for presision or damage they are slow and fat and have little in the way of regen so there is big downtimes between engagments if you get into a "tango" i think shayz once showed a half decent amarr assault build of dual rep plate and kinkat its obvious why the kinkat is there cause its fat and slow :P [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 1 Forum Pariah What ever happened to buffing Logi eHP in Delta?!
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 908	Posted - 2014.09.17 16:10:00 - [16] - Quote Bright Steel wrote: If we found a way to eliminate tanked scouts the assaults would have a solid place on the battle field even with the shared scans. I remember someone calling for plates to be a percentage increase rather than X amount. It just doesn't make sense that my scout suite can't fit a HMG because it's to heavy but I can fit multiple complex armor plates that more than triples my armor.... why not remove scouts ability to use light weapons? they are scouts so they should be fine with nova knives and other sidearms.. tho make an exception for them on shotguns and snipers to keep the QQ and tears from the FTOYear chasers down. but also nerf the pg and cpu on their suits to follow their change from Light+side to side+side [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 1 Forum Pariah What ever happened to buffing Logi eHP in Delta?!
Bright Steel Horizons' Edge Proficiency V. 89	Posted - 2014.09.17 16:29:00 - [17] - Quote Quote: why not remove scouts ability to use light weapons? they are scouts so they should be fine with nova knives and other sidearms.. tho make an exception for them on shotguns and snipers to keep the QQ and tears from the FTOYear chasers down. but also nerf the pg and cpu on their suits to follow their change from Light+side to side+side Or penalize them (CPU & PG) for using light weapons and heavy armor plates. The Best Worst game you can't stop playing..... DUST
Thumb Green Raymond James Corp 1467	Posted - 2014.09.17 17:09:00 - [18] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: Thumb Green wrote: Shared passive scans make sense, I don't see why they wouldn't be able to share them with how advanced their technology is. Then again we're talking about people that still use iron sights as standard issue. Hell, their sonars can't even pick up gunfire. shared passive scans basically nullifies active scanners and makes them useless. but basically i forget which race but one of them can get 100m range on passive scans easly and in a 360degree. that is more then anything that an active scanner could do Active scanners were just an SP sink to begin with and shouldn't have been put into the game. And you're idea to limit Scouts to sidearms is just stupid. No suit should be limited to just one set of weapons; however Bright Steel's suggestion right after that is actually good. We don't kick ass, we kick dick and we kick it hard. Join us in our Pumpkin Crushing
CommanderBolt TerranProtossZerg 1618	Posted - 2014.09.17 17:13:00 - [19] - Quote I have said it before and I will say it again. Amarr assault 5 and the Scrambler Rifle. This combo and the way CCP made this setup is perfect. If all assaults were in a similar vein, giving actual and substantial bonuses to their racial weapon.... maybe more people would love the assault. I have no problem with scouts, I think the ewar might be the biggest issues however. -=#[ Gastun's Forge ]#=- MY LIFE FOR AIUR! "I'm wasting away here" - "Get me back into zee fight!
Ryme Intrinseca Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1874	Posted - 2014.09.17 17:46:00 - [20] - Quote I've said it before and I'll say it again: SHARED PASSIVE SCANS ARE THE SAVIOUR OF ASSAULTS Why? Let's suppose you have Scout Squad (2 Amarr scout, 2 Caldari scout, 2 Gal scout) versus Mixed Squad (2 Amarr scout, 2 Min assault, 2 Amarr assault). 1. WITH shared passive scans, the mixed squad has a chance to win. This is because: (a) If the scout squad don't dampen, then the mixed squad, including the assaults, can see them on shared passive scan. So ewar is effectively nullified and it comes down to gank and tank. The mixed squad has a lot more gank (assault weapon bonuses) and tank (assault HP) and should win. (b) If the scout squad DO dampen, then they have the ewar advantage. But they're giving up a lot of module slots to do that, 2 per scout. Basically, in this scenario, we end up with a traditional sneaky, paper thin scout squad relying on the element of surprise versus a massively more tanked force of (mostly) assaults. I.e. the scouts will be scouting and the assaults will be assaulting. 2. WITHOUT shared passive scans, by contrast, the scouts are bound to win. This is because, even if the scout squad don't dampen, then they're still below the passive scan of the assaults! So there is little incentive for the scouts to dampen. They're best off just brick tanking and basically having most of the advantages of assaults while dominating ewar as well. TL;DR Passive scans give assaults in a mixed squad a fair shot at fighting against scouts. Remove passive scans and assaults really will be blind.

sabre prime Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 538	Posted - 2014.09.17 17:50:00 - [21] - Quote Assault suits are still basically meaningless and/or useless. Unless it's something like the amarr assault, which really helps to make a specific weapon shine, then there is almost no point in skilling into an assault suit. /end of ignorant comment Desperate attempt to get BPOs
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 909	Posted - 2014.09.17 18:08:00 - [22] - Quote Bright Steel wrote: Quote: why not remove scouts ability to use light weapons? they are scouts so they should be fine with nova knives and other sidearms.. tho make an exception for them on shotguns and snipers to keep the QQ and tears from the FTOYear chasers down. but also nerf the pg and cpu on their suits to follow their change from Light+side to side+side Or penalize them (CPU & PG) for using light weapons and heavy armor plates. that could work.. like they did for sentinels lower cpu and pg but a bonus for fitting Heavy weapons. [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 1 Forum Pariah What ever happened to buffing Logi eHP in Delta?!
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 909	Posted - 2014.09.17 18:10:00 - [23] - Quote sabre prime wrote: Assault suits are still basically meaningless and/or useless. Unless it's something like the amarr assault, which really helps to make a specific weapon shine, then there is almost no point in skilling into an assault suit. /end of ignorant comment i have tried amarr assault, i felt like gallente was better because it was faster and higher HP/s just because of the bonus 2hp/s on gallente suits. but amarr suits bricked and damage modded with logi support are a hell of a wall to try break past... unless you happen to be a scout and throw a few frisbee's and rake up half a dozen kills from them in the blink of an eye [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 1 Forum Pariah What ever happened to buffing Logi eHP in Delta?!
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 909	Posted - 2014.09.17 18:11:00 - [24] - Quote man- bear pig wrote: Please don't ** talk my assaults to try to prove your point about scouts being OP. you misunderstand, im trying to fight FOR assault suits. [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 1 Forum Pariah What ever happened to buffing Logi eHP in Delta?!**
Cpt McReady Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 20	Posted - 2014.09.17 18:26:00 - [25] - Quote assault should have their own weapon slot, the assault weapon slot. in the assault weapon slot you would be able to fit rifles (RR, CR, SCR, LR & AR). all other lights weapons would remain light weapons (sniper and shotgun) problem semi solved.
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 909	Posted - 2014.09.17 18:54:00 - [26] - Quote Cpt McReady wrote: assault should have their own weapon slot, the assault weapon slot. in the assault weapon slot you would be able to fit rifles (RR, CR, SCR, LR & AR). all other lights weapons would remain light weapons (sniper and shotgun) problem semi solved. but wouldnt that basically be like adding a sidearm onto commando? [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 1 Forum Pariah What ever happened to buffing Logi eHP in Delta?!
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Kyoudai Furinkazan 1196	Posted - 2014.09.17 20:20:00 - [27] - Quote Kierkegaard Soren wrote: Assaults get weapon bonuses that make them shine when fitted intelligently, but if agree that scouts are just better killers in all the ways that matter; speed, stealth, utility and firepower, not to mention the EWAR. But I still think they've been done properly. We just need to boost assaults so they can stay in fight longer; built in regen or a boost to armour/shield regen modules would be nice :) The community really do not want assaults to be potent , they would rather have them in between scouts and commando's when their power should be in between commando's and heavies . They are afraid of assaults being the real slayers . Nothing more OP then a role that actually does what it's suppose to do . I totally agree with the concept of them staying in the fight longer and this doesn't create a OP offensive power potential but it helps them to serve their initial purpose and that's to assault and be the slayers of New Eden . The thing that created slayer logi's was not the slot count and the CPU / PG , though that helped but the bonuses that gave them longevity on the battlefield like the built in rep bonuses or the bonus that gave shield efficacy , these items helped these troops stay in the fight longer and helped them support as well . Seems that's part of the reason that logistic doesn't have similar bonuses so that they would have greater longevity on the battlefield because CCP just didn't know what to do with it . Assaults should have similar bonuses but so should logistics again but not to the level of the assaults . Being able to last longer would make up for not being able to match or come close to the scouts attributes . Delta should come with a SP or infantry SP refund so that a campaign for one is not needed .
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 915	Posted - 2014.09.17 21:55:00 - [28] - Quote Thumb Green wrote: Apothecary Za'ki wrote: Thumb Green wrote: Shared passive scans make sense, I don't see why they wouldn't be able to share them with how advanced their technology is. Then again we're talking about people that still use iron sights as standard issue. Hell, their sonars can't even pick up gunfire. shared passive scans basically nullifies active scanners and makes them useless. but basically i forget which race but one of them can get 100m range on passive scans easly and in a 360degree. that is more then anything that an active scanner could do Active scanners were just an SP sink to begin with and shouldn't have been put into the game. And you're idea to limit Scouts to sidearms is just stupid. No suit should be limited to just one set of weapons; however Bright Steel's suggestion right after that is actually good. its not that stupid as i know many scouts who just run with sidearms, myself included when im bored, however i do agree with brightsteel and that particular concept.. i personally would still allow scouts to use ferroscale and reactive but would not allow them to use the BIG plates.. lore wise it could be that light suits/scout suits leg servo's cannot handle the additional weight or something. [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 1 Forum Pariah What ever happened to buffing Logi eHP in Delta?!
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 915	Posted - 2014.09.17 21:57:00 - [29] - Quote Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: Kierkegaard Soren wrote: Assaults get weapon bonuses that make them shine when fitted intelligently, but if agree that scouts are just better killers in all the ways that matter; speed, stealth, utility and firepower, not to mention the EWAR. But I still think they've been done properly. We just need to boost assaults so they can stay in fight longer; built in regen or a boost to armour/shield regen modules would be nice :) The community really do not want assaults to be potent , they would rather have them in between scouts and commando's when their power should be in between commando's and heavies . They are afraid of assaults being the real slayers . Nothing more OP then a role that actually does what it's suppose to do . I totally agree with the concept of them staying in the fight longer and this doesn't create a OP offensive power potential but it helps them to serve their initial purpose and that's to assault and be the slayers of New Eden . The thing that created slayer logi's was not the slot count and the CPU / PG , though that helped but the bonuses that gave them longevity on the battlefield like the built in rep bonuses or the bonus that gave shield efficacy , these items helped these troops stay in the fight longer and helped them support as well . Seems that's part of the reason that logistic doesn't have similar bonuses so that they would have greater longevity on the battlefield because CCP just didn't know what to do with it . Assaults should have similar bonuses but so should logistics again but not to the level of the assaults . Being able to last longer would make up for not being able to match or come close to the scouts attributes . currently i would regard scouts as being #1 while assault is #2 just because of more slots for precision or damp or reps or w/e.. and commando #3 because they are ridiculously limited on slots and they are as fat and slow as sentinels but 1/2 to 1/4 the HP [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 1 Forum Pariah What ever happened to buffing Logi eHP in Delta?!
Michael Arck 5585	Posted - 2014.09.17 22:02:00 - [30] - Quote Dont know. I run scout to find enemy position, sneak hack and drop uplinks. I never use it for frontal assault. I only use my CalAss for that. Archistrategos / The 7th Prime / Selah *Where the fear has gone there will be nothing....only I will remain

Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 916	Posted - 2014.09.17 22:06:00 - [31] - Quote Michael Arck wrote: Dont know. I run scout to find enemy position, sneak hack and drop uplinks. I never use it for frontal assault. I only use my CalAss for that. then your basically useing scout as intended.. scouting.. hacking.. avoiding slay groups but picking on the lone blueberrys and so on.. thats how scout should be.. not like saxons recent infantry(scout) video showing how they can take on the world and win. [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 1 Forum Pariah What ever happened to buffing Logi eHP in Delta?!
Foo Fighting THE HANDS OF DEATH 131	Posted - 2014.09.17 22:36:00 - [32] - Quote Give all suits 0 dB precision up to 5m. Make frame size affect light weapon kick. These subtle changes give mediums a small opportunity to counter a cloaky with SG or knives - it also improves their chances in a longer ranged attack as the scout (who has the drop on the medium) has to work harder to win the engagement due to increased kick and the existing assault bonuses to light weapons.
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 918	Posted - 2014.09.17 22:56:00 - [33] - Quote Foo Fighting wrote: Give all suits 0 dB precision up to 5m. Make frame size affect light weapon kick. These subtle changes give mediums a small opportunity to counter a cloaky with SG or knives - it also improves their chances in a longer ranged attack as the scout (who has the drop on the medium) has to work harder to win the engagement due to increased kick and the existing assault bonuses to light weapons. even with more kick, a scout will just wittle you down as he strafes back and forth avoiding hit detection [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 1 Forum Pariah What ever happened to buffing Logi eHP in Delta?!
Izlare Lenix Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 953	Posted - 2014.09.17 23:01:00 - [34] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: Michael Arck wrote: Dont know. I run scout to find enemy position, sneak hack and drop uplinks. I never use it for frontal assault. I only use my CalAss for that. then your basically useing scout as intended.. scouting.. hacking.. avoiding slay groups but picking on the lone blueberrys and so on.. thats how scout should be.. not like saxons recent infantry(scout) video showing how they can take on the world and win. I love how people watch Sax's video and think scouts are actually that OP. he was proto stomping an entire team on idiot noobs. Several of them just stood there while he murdered them. In PC brick fit scouts are not very useful like they are in pubs because you will be nova knived/ shotgunned in the back by a real scout or you will be Six kin burst in the face by one of the 8 hmg heavies on the map or blown up by one of the 4 ADS Buzzing around the sky. In PC/competitive play scouts are better balanced. Pubs are not a gauge of how balanced/OP something is. Gun control is not about guns...it's about control. The only way to ensure freedom is by having the means to defend it.
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 918	Posted - 2014.09.17 23:07:00 - [35] - Quote Izlare Lenix wrote: Apothecary Za'ki wrote: Michael Arck wrote: Dont know. I run scout to find enemy position, sneak hack and drop uplinks. I never use it for frontal assault. I only use my CalAss for that. then your basically useing scout as intended.. scouting.. hacking.. avoiding slay groups but picking on the lone blueberrys and so on.. thats how scout should be.. not like saxons recent infantry(scout) video showing how they can take on the world and win. I love how people watch Sax's video and think scouts are actually that OP. he was proto stomping an entire team on idiot noobs. Several of them just stood there while he murdered them. In PC brick fit scouts are not very useful like they are in pubs because you will be nova knived/ shotgunned in the back by a real scout or you will be Six kin burst in the face by one of the 8 hmg heavies on the map or blown up by one of the 4 ADS Buzzing around the sky. In PC/competitive play scouts are better balanced. Pubs are not a gauge of how balanced/OP something is. im not talking just about that but its to give some one a gauge of reference on such things like strafing, passive scans, movement speed, ewar/passive scan immunity. granted saxon is in the top 10 players i feel his skills are wasted in pub matches especially when running proto.. maybe if we had all 3 match times in FW more proto players would take part as i know saxon would FW if it was another match type other then the kind thats currently available. and if you are tryign to compair pub to PC they are as far apart from kiddie pool(pub) and Olympic swimming pool(FW) the open ocean(PC) [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 1 Forum Pariah What ever happened to buffing Logi eHP in Delta?!
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 4953	Posted - 2014.09.17 23:09:00 - [36] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: What would you change to make Assaults perform better than Scouts in the Assaulting role then? Double the movement penalty for plates on Scouts. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 918	Posted - 2014.09.17 23:11:00 - [37] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: What would you change to make Assaults perform better than Scouts in the Assaulting role then? Double the movement penalty for plates on Scouts. why not remove their ability to use plates at all? save ferroscale and reactive which are low mass light defense plates. [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 1 Forum Pariah What ever happened to buffing Logi eHP in Delta?!
Joel II X Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 3453	Posted - 2014.09.17 23:14:00 - [38] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: sabre prime wrote: Assault suits are still basically meaningless and/or useless. Unless it's something like the amarr assault, which really helps to make a specific weapon shine, then there is almost no point in skilling into an assault suit. /end of ignorant comment i have tried amarr assault, i felt like gallente was better because it was faster and higher HP/s just because of the bonus 2hp/s on gallente suits. but amarr suits bricked and damage modded with logi support are a hell of a wall to try break past... unless you happen to be a scout and throw a few frisbee's and rake up half a dozen kills from them in the blink of an eye The Gallente Assault suit in itself isn't bad. It's the Gallente Assault bonus that is. Same with Caldari Bonus (not sure about the suit since I haven't used it, but I'll assume it is?)
Joel II X Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 3453	Posted - 2014.09.17 23:16:00 - [39] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: What would you change to make Assaults perform better than Scouts in the Assaulting role then? Double the movement penalty for plates on Scouts. why not remove their ability to use plates at all? save ferroscale and reactive which are low mass light defense plates. That's like saying remove dampners on heavies. While I despise tanked scouts, I do not think this will be the answer to our problems.
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 4181	Posted - 2014.09.17 23:21:00 - [40] - Quote Foo Fighting wrote: Give all suits 0 dB precision up to 5m. Make frame size affect light weapon kick. These subtle changes give mediums a small opportunity to counter a cloaky with SG or knives - it also improves their chances in a longer ranged attack as the scout (who has the drop on the medium) has to work harder to win the engagement due to increased kick and the existing assault bonuses to light weapons. So what you are saying is that scouts should just not be able to take on medium frames? They already are at an HP disadvantage but they should also have their stealthiness removed too? That isn't a balanced approach to the topic. How about giving heavies the advantage of knowing when a medium frame is within that medium frame's weapons optimal range. That give he heavies the same advantage, because it is so unfair that assault suits don't show up in a heavies tacnet. I think it would make the medium frame have to work harder to win the engagement. You can always tell a Millford Minja

Michael Arck 5585	Posted - 2014.09.17 23:27:00 - [41] - Quote Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: The thing that created slayer logi's was not the slot count and the CPU / PG , though that helped but the bonuses that gave them longevity on the battlefield like the built in rep bonuses or the bonus that gave shield efficacy , these items helped these troops stay in the fight longer and helped them support as well . I can attest to this. When Michael was first born in New Eden, his focus was strictly Assault. Then the assaults got gimped and the time of logisitics got love. I looked into it and realized that I could assault and still help support my team at the same time. And that armor rep bonus built in suit was perfect. So I switched to the CalLogi and had a great time slaying and healing. I miss those times. TTK was low and I ran my CalLogi. Hell I needed that time just to patch up the ugliness of my KDR that was battered and bruised during my adjustment to a new game. Archistrategos / The 7th Prime / Selah *Where the fear has gone there will be nothing....only I will remain
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 919	Posted - 2014.09.17 23:31:00 - [42] - Quote Joel II X wrote: Apothecary Za'ki wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: What would you change to make Assaults perform better than Scouts in the Assaulting role then? Double the movement penalty for plates on Scouts. why not remove their ability to use plates at all? save ferroscale and reactive which are low mass light defense plates. That's like saying remove dampners on heavies. While I despise tanked scouts, I do not think this will be the answer to our problems. well unless scouts suits are nerfed to 1hp and 1 armor to compensate for their brick tanking i would see that it works well enough [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 1 Forum Pariah What ever happened to buffing Logi eHP in Delta?!
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 919	Posted - 2014.09.17 23:32:00 - [43] - Quote Michael Arck wrote: Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: The thing that created slayer logi's was not the slot count and the CPU / PG , though that helped but the bonuses that gave them longevity on the battlefield like the built in rep bonuses or the bonus that gave shield efficacy , these items helped these troops stay in the fight longer and helped them support as well . I can attest to this. When Michael was first born in New Eden, his focus was strictly Assault. Then the assaults got gimped and the time of logisitics got love. I looked into it and realized that I could assault and still help support my team at the same time. And that armor rep bonus built in suit was perfect. So I switched to the CalLogi and had a great time slaying and healing. I miss those times. TTK was low and I ran my CalLogi. Hell I needed that time just to patch up the ugliness of my KDR that was battered and bruised during my adjustment to a new game. logi do not have rep bonus anymore and after all the buffing and tweeking of other suits logi are waaay on the bottom of the pile [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 1 Forum Pariah What ever happened to buffing Logi eHP in Delta?!
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 4953	Posted - 2014.09.17 23:35:00 - [44] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: What would you change to make Assaults perform better than Scouts in the Assaulting role then? Double the movement penalty for plates on Scouts. why not remove their ability to use plates at all? save ferroscale and reactive which are low mass light defense plates. Because it likely won't be necessary. Shoot scout with yes. - Ripley Riley
Yeeeuuuupppp Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 590	Posted - 2014.09.18 01:37:00 - [45] - Quote I prefer the assault. If I had my adv cal assault, I'd never use a scout suit again unless im ninja hacking. I merge the assault play style with the scout play style to have one unique way to play. Being an assault gives me those nerve wracking moments when you're behind enemY lines and havE no extraction. In that situation, with a scout suit, you could cloak up and run away. It all comes down to preferences, how fast you like to be, how much you want to be able to tank, how much damage you want to do. If you like it, you like it, whether it's how the suit was intended to be used or not. Wannabe Slayer PSN: GMANCASH Rage Proficiency V
Bahirae Serugiusu Vendetta Reactionary Force 93	Posted - 2014.09.18 03:48:00 - [46] - Quote Assault needs better loving. The only Assault suit bonus worth a dang is Amarr for the lower heat buildup. The clip size for Minmatar isn't to important I think, neither is reload speed or bullet dispersion.
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 2240	Posted - 2014.09.18 03:57:00 - [47] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: assault suits are completely overshadowed by the pros vs cons between assault and scout.. assault suits seem to just be a stopgap for player skilling up "dropsuit upgrades" so they can have a super powered scout suit, lets have a look at scouts.. SHARED passive scans tiny hitbox fast as hell massive regen can fit adequate tank while having "slayer" fittings (rifle+side) EWAR superiority even with out ewar moduals equipped 2 equipment slots now lets look at what the assault does better... nothing really unless you want to become a bricked out tortoise which needs logi support to stay alive as slow=dead now.. what do YOU the community feel about this? OP "assault-scout" video showing how OP it can be and IS I say keep everything the same but drop their base ehp to ~50. PSN: RationalSpark
Scar Scrilla 419	Posted - 2014.09.18 05:41:00 - [48] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: assault suits are completely overshadowed by the pros vs cons between assault and scout.. assault suits seem to just be a stopgap for player skilling up "dropsuit upgrades" so they can have a super powered scout suit, lets have a look at scouts.. SHARED passive scans tiny hitbox fast as hell massive regen can fit adequate tank while having "slayer" fittings (rifle+side) EWAR superiority even with out ewar moduals equipped 2 equipment slots now lets look at what the assault does better... nothing really unless you want to become a bricked out tortoise which needs logi support to stay alive as slow=dead now.. what do YOU the community feel about this? OP "assault-scout" video showing how OP it can be and IS Yeah, a guy in all Proto gear constantly killing mlt scrubs in pubs and boasting about it on the forums is proof of how much OP a scout suit is lol. Have u ever played PC? It's scouts VS scouts VS heavies with burst HMGs shredding everything and a few DS so it's completely balanced. What keeps you from skilling into scouts and rifles? Diversity is the key, and if u won't adapt u gonna die. Get gudd Your constant QQ about everything u can't deal with is pathetic and annoying. Furthermore u don't make any suggestions concerning improvements or changes to said "scout problem". And no, I don't run bricked scouts exclusively, but dampened/prec enhanced stealth killer suits. It's not my crutch. If scouts annoy me, I switch to Heavy and rely on my squad to save my ass ... P.S.: I have a Corp mate who runs Assault most of the time and is doin very well with it. P.S.: Again, Get gudd "Si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses" " ... or grab a shotgun and REs." - UN1TE
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 12238	Posted - 2014.09.18 07:05:00 - [49] - Quote Joel II X wrote: Information is OP. Since scouts deal with this, they seem OP. Speed is mostly a nonfactor nowadays save for major differences in strafe speeds. I would take out some CPU/PG and the extra equipment slot from every scout/frame. Will this stop the QQ? No, but it'll slow it down. I'd also change the bonuses up a bit (just the numbers, not their skill set). except make the Caldari and Gallente Scout more "unique"by separating the damp bonus and having the scout blanket bonus to give a 75% Reduction to cloak throughout all tiers. Speed is a non factor? My Gal Assault with a kin cat would like to have a word with you. Just because some people can't figure out a use for speed that doesn't involve hacking or strafing doesn't mean it's useless. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 12238	Posted - 2014.09.18 07:06:00 - [50] - Quote Kierkegaard Soren wrote: Assaults get weapon bonuses that make them shine when fitted intelligently, but if agree that scouts are just better killers in all the ways that matter; speed, stealth, utility and firepower, not to mention the EWAR. But I still think they've been done properly. We just need to boost assaults so they can stay in fight longer; built in regen or a boost to armour/shield regen modules would be nice :) Amarr and Minmatar Assaults. Gal and Cal bonuses are just weak. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC

Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 12238	Posted - 2014.09.18 07:17:00 - [51] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: What would you change to make Assaults perform better than Scouts in the Assaulting role then? Double the movement penalty for plates on Scouts. Doesn't change Cal scouts. They can easily run around with nearly 500 shields with super low delays and 50hp/s regen. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
Meee One Hello Kitty Logistics 1151	Posted - 2014.09.18 07:48:00 - [52] - Quote It's very sad the only suit that can shield tank effectively is a scout suit... Why do scouts have grenades? Seriously,whats stealth about a loud explosion? Why do scouts have both weapons with 2 equipment? It costs the cal logi a weapon and stats to have 2. Why are scouts encouraged to go on killing sprees? The SG in that video couldn't kill him in one shot,yet SGs can one shot my logistics suit with similar eHP values. Until CCP decides to knuckle down and take this problem seriously scouts will stay OP. As to regen for assaults,no. Logistics is being needed less and less,the last thing that needs to happen is to have another suit not need them. Was banned for fighting for logistics survival on 7/25/2014 02:11. Logistics will never be respected.
Cpt McReady Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 23	Posted - 2014.09.18 07:57:00 - [53] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: Cpt McReady wrote: assault should have their own weapon slot, the assault weapon slot. in the assault weapon slot you would be able to fit rifles (RR, CR, SCR, LR & AR). all other lights weapons would remain light weapons (sniper and shotgun) problem semi solved. but wouldnt that basically be like adding a sidearm onto commando? the commando would obviously also get an assault weapon slot
Varoth Drac The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 226	Posted - 2014.09.18 08:15:00 - [54] - Quote I can make a min assault very similar to saxonamish's cal scout. Similar hp Faster Similar shield regen Damage mod Scan range >30m (this is better than most scouts but a bit less than a Caldari scout) Profile below most scanning threats. The Cal scout is a little better here as it will evade Gal scout scans whereas my assault won't). Worse scan precision. However in practice this makes no difference. Assault clip size bonus on both main and sidearm. Proto weapons, core nades and nano hive like the Cal scout. Perhaps assault users need to try EWAR mods if they want to lone wolf. Put some range extenders on and you can have scout-like passive scans.
Meee One Hello Kitty Logistics 1154	Posted - 2014.09.18 09:48:00 - [55] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: I can make a min assault very similar to saxonamish's cal scout. Similar hp Faster Similar shield regen Damage mod Scan range >30m (this is better than most scouts but a bit less than a Caldari scout) Profile below most scanning threats. The Cal scout is a little better here as it will evade Gal scout scans whereas my assault won't). Worse scan precision. However in practice this makes no difference. Assault clip size bonus on both main and sidearm. Proto weapons and nano hive like the Cal scout. I prefer flux grenades. Perhaps assault users need to try EWAR mods if they want to lone wolf. Put some range extenders on and you can have scout-like passive scans. Lone wolf min assault An assault out performing a scout in regards to killing is a bad thing? People aren't complaining about scouts eWAR Or about that they regen. Or how they can strafe through HMG rounds. Or that they have 2 equipment slots. They are complaining there aren't enough drawbacks. Woo 'low eHP',negated by ferros and extenders. + High regen equals the best tanking suit in the game. eWAR allows them to time their regen and engagements. Speed allows them to strafe just long enough to regen mid-battle. Broken hit detection allows them to dodge bullets effortlessly. 2 weapons allows them to accommodate and compensate their failed 'assassination' attempts. 2 equipment does the same as 2 weapons. Failed attempts should be lethal. IRL assassins had 1 chance to kill stealthy and escape,if they failed it meant guaranteed death. Dust 'lolsassins' are like 'whatever bro,i can outrep you and kill you because i'm good like that'. Even though his scout and my logistics suit are almost equals in eHP,i wouldn't have been able to escape through half the barrages he lol'd his way through. And he was leading the charge,killing enemies face to face. That alone should tell you they're OP. He was bluntly doing an assaults job. Was banned for fighting for logistics survival on 7/25/2014 02:11. Logistics will never be respected.
Varoth Drac Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 226	Posted - 2014.09.18 11:18:00 - [56] - Quote Meee One wrote: Varoth Drac wrote: I can make a min assault very similar to saxonamish's cal scout. Similar hp Faster Similar shield regen Damage mod Scan range >30m (this is better than most scouts but a bit less than a Caldari scout) Profile below most scanning threats. The Cal scout is a little better here as it will evade Gal scout scans whereas my assault won't). Worse scan precision. However in practice this makes no difference. Assault clip size bonus on both main and sidearm. Proto weapons and nano hive like the Cal scout. I prefer flux grenades. Perhaps assault users need to try EWAR mods if they want to lone wolf. Put some range extenders on and you can have scout-like passive scans. Lone wolf min assault An assault out performing a scout in regards to killing is a bad thing? People aren't complaining about scouts eWAR Or about that they regen. Or how they can strafe through HMG rounds. Or that they have 2 equipment slots. They are complaining there aren't enough drawbacks. Woo 'low eHP',negated by ferros and extenders. + High regen equals the best tanking suit in the game. eWAR allows them to time their regen and engagements. Speed allows them to strafe just long enough to regen mid-battle. Broken hit detection allows them to dodge bullets effortlessly. 2 weapons allows them to accommodate and compensate their failed 'assassination' attempts. 2 equipment does the same as 2 weapons. Failed attempts should be lethal. IRL assassins had 1 chance to kill stealthy and escape,if they failed it meant guaranteed death. Dust 'lolsassins' are like 'whatever bro,i can outrep you and kill you because i'm good like that'. Even though his scout and my logistics suit are almost equals in eHP,i wouldn't have been able to escape through half the barrages he lol'd his way through. And he was leading the charge,killing enemies face to face. That alone should tell you they're OP. He was bluntly doing an assaults job. I didn't say it was a bad thing. I was just pointing out that Assaults can make similar suits. EWAR is good for lone wolf style assaulting. If you are in a squad, playing closely together with a logi and others, EWAR will be less useful. We are talking about a fit that is between assault and scout. You can make it with either a scout suit or an assault suit as I have shown. I admit that I forgot about the scout's smaller hitbox in my comparison. Maybe EWAR mods should be buffed, or range amps at least, so that medium suits can effectively fit for it if they like, though I have shown that they can to a certain extent.
Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game 475	Posted - 2014.09.18 11:37:00 - [57] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: now.. what do YOU the community feel about this? As always I feel - Commando > everything... Scouts, sentinels, assaults, logis... You're all doing it wrong. Commando is the way forward.
Cpt McReady Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 23	Posted - 2014.09.18 11:54:00 - [58] - Quote imho scouts have to many slots, if you like you can tank them up due to the amount slots they have thus closing the gap to the assault suit while still having all the advantages of a scout (base speed, cloak bonus, hitbox size, signature and strafe speed) they should have less slots simply as that. they already have the base values and 2 equipment slots for scout stuff, they do not need that amount of high and low slots at all.
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Kyoudai Furinkazan 1200	Posted - 2014.09.18 12:59:00 - [59] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: I'm one of those scout suit users ??? I barely use my scout suit and when I do I have 89 armor and 229 shields , I only use my scout suits like two to three times a month and that's because I don't use them and I hate the fact that I placed skill points into them ( Cal scout to advanced and that's all ) and their just laying around collecting dust . I use them when a battle has a massive amount of scouts in it and I'm not good at using the suit because , one .. I'm not a scout , two ... I don't use the suit because if I did you would know it because I would be better at it , three ... I have e-war skills for all of my suits , not to use scouts . If you see me in a scout suit then take a picture because you'll rarely find that like waldo in a where's waldo game . I play Commando and Logistic . I medic and anti-vehicle . You know nothing about me if your making statements about me using scouts like assaults . I have assault suits and I use them more then I use scouts suits . The only reason that I specked into scouts was to have a counter to them from being tired of being shotgunned in the back and I still don't use them much if at all . I use my sentinel more than scouts . I'm not a scout and simply don't use the suit much . Delta should come with a SP or infantry SP refund so that a campaign for one is not needed .
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Kyoudai Furinkazan 1200	Posted - 2014.09.18 13:11:00 - [60] - Quote Then again , if I was a scout then why would I point out the flaws in assault suits ... if I use scout like assaults ??? You make no sense . If I cared about scouts and used them like assaults , then I wouldn't have an opinion about this discussion or I would favor scouts when clearly I spoke about the flaws of assaults in agreement with Kierkegaard Soren , what did you not understand .. while your accusing me of using scouts like assaults ??? Delta should come with a SP or infantry SP refund so that a campaign for one is not needed .

CUSE TOWN333 KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 1450	Posted - 2014.09.18 13:48:00 - [61] - Quote Sequal Rise wrote: Amarr assault with 4 comp ferroscale plate +1 comp reactive + lvl 5 biotic and speed+ 3 comp damager + viziam scrambler + ishukone aSMG + proto ishukone hives= fast suit, extremely powerful, lots of HP (1000ish), ammo for you and your team, a bit of rep. The only con is that it doesn't have a built in wallhack. But scouts are made for this ^^ that would mean the suit is as fast as its base speed wich is slow as dirt. and haveing 1000 armor repping at 3h/s seriously were do people come up wth these crap fits. no wonder scout suits seem OP to some people. KEQ diplomat/ intel /GC officer
Bright Steel Horizons' Edge Proficiency V. 96	Posted - 2014.09.18 14:18:00 - [62] - Quote https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2364383#post2364383 Penalize scouts CPU and pg for using light weapons and heavy armor just like they did the senteinels. Lower they CPU and pg but give fitting bonus for side arms and reactive/feroscals The Best Worst game you can't stop playing..... DUST
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 12239	Posted - 2014.09.18 15:04:00 - [63] - Quote Bright Steel wrote: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2364383#post2364383 Penalize scouts CPU and pg for using light weapons and heavy armor just like they did the senteinels. Lower they CPU and pg but give fitting bonus for side arms and reactive/feroscals You know that doesn't fix anything right? They can still get high amounts of HP with reactive/ferros, just that now they'll be speedy as hell while they're at it. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC


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