DUST Search - Assault suits, a stop-gap for "assault scouts"

Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:

Kierkegaard Soren wrote:

Assaults get weapon bonuses that make them shine when fitted intelligently, but if agree that scouts are just better killers in all the ways that matter; speed, stealth, utility and firepower, not to mention the EWAR. But I still think they've been done properly. We just need to boost assaults so they can stay in fight longer; built in regen or a boost to armour/shield regen modules would be nice :)

The community really do not want assaults to be potent , they would rather have them in between scouts and commando's when their power should be in between commando's and heavies .

They are afraid of assaults being the real slayers .

Nothing more OP then a role that actually does what it's suppose to do .

I totally agree with the concept of them staying in the fight longer and this doesn't create a OP offensive power potential but it helps them to serve their initial purpose and that's to assault and be the slayers of New Eden .

The thing that created slayer logi's was not the slot count and the CPU / PG , though that helped but the bonuses that gave them longevity on the battlefield like the built in rep bonuses or the bonus that gave shield efficacy , these items helped these troops stay in the fight longer and helped them support as well .

Seems that's part of the reason that logistic doesn't have similar bonuses so that they would have greater longevity on the battlefield because CCP just didn't know what to do with it .

Assaults should have similar bonuses but so should logistics again but not to the level of the assaults .

Being able to last longer would make up for not being able to match or come close to the scouts attributes .

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Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 907	Posted - 2014.09.17 14:47:00 - [1] - Quote assault suits are completely overshadowed by the pros vs cons between assault and scout.. assault suits seem to just be a stopgap for player skilling up "dropsuit upgrades" so they can have a super powered scout suit, lets have a look at scouts.. SHARED passive scans tiny hitbox fast as hell massive regen can fit adequate tank while having "slayer" fittings (rifle+side) EWAR superiority even with out ewar moduals equipped 2 equipment slots now lets look at what the assault does better... nothing really unless you want to become a bricked out tortoise which needs logi support to stay alive as slow=dead now.. what do YOU the community feel about this? OP "assault-scout" video showing how OP it can be and IS [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 1 Forum Pariah What ever happened to buffing Logi eHP in Delta?!
Thumb Green Raymond James Corp 1467	Posted - 2014.09.17 15:12:00 - [2] - Quote Shared passive scans make sense, I don't see why they wouldn't be able to share them with how advanced their technology is. Then again we're talking about people that still use iron sights as standard issue. Hell, their sonars can't even pick up gunfire. We don't kick ass, we kick dick and we kick it hard. Join us in our Pumpkin Crushing
Joel II X Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 3450	Posted - 2014.09.17 15:13:00 - [3] - Quote Information is OP. Since scouts deal with this, they seem OP. Speed is mostly a nonfactor nowadays save for major differences in strafe speeds. I would take out some CPU/PG and the extra equipment slot from every scout/frame. Will this stop the QQ? No, but it'll slow it down. I'd also change the bonuses up a bit (just the numbers, not their skill set). except make the Caldari and Gallente Scout more "unique"by separating the damp bonus and having the scout blanket bonus to give a 75% Reduction to cloak throughout all tiers.
Joel II X Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 3450	Posted - 2014.09.17 15:13:00 - [4] - Quote Thumb Green wrote: Shared passive scans make sense, I don't see why they wouldn't be able to share them with how advanced their technology is. Then again we're talking about people that still use iron sights as standard issue. Hell, their sonars can't even pick up gunfire. I want the camera sights back!
man- bear pig D3ATH CARD 24	Posted - 2014.09.17 15:14:00 - [5] - Quote Please don't **** talk my assaults to try to prove your point about scouts being OP.
Sequal Rise Les Desanusseurs 51	Posted - 2014.09.17 15:22:00 - [6] - Quote Amarr assault with 4 comp ferroscale plate +1 comp reactive + lvl 5 biotic and speed+ 3 comp damager + viziam scrambler + ishukone aSMG + proto ishukone hives= fast suit, extremely powerful, lots of HP (1000ish), ammo for you and your team, a bit of rep. The only con is that it doesn't have a built in wallhack. But scouts are made for this ^^ Sorry for my bad english ^^
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3182	Posted - 2014.09.17 15:23:00 - [7] - Quote What would you change to make Assaults perform better than Scouts in the Assaulting role then? Hotfix Delta Sentinel eHP Calcs
man- bear pig D3ATH CARD 25	Posted - 2014.09.17 15:32:00 - [8] - Quote I don't know, I don't run scout. I'm just saying don't down play assault just because you don't know how to use them.
Kierkegaard Soren THE HANDS OF DEATH 510	Posted - 2014.09.17 15:34:00 - [9] - Quote Assaults get weapon bonuses that make them shine when fitted intelligently, but if agree that scouts are just better killers in all the ways that matter; speed, stealth, utility and firepower, not to mention the EWAR. But I still think they've been done properly. We just need to boost assaults so they can stay in fight longer; built in regen or a boost to armour/shield regen modules would be nice :) Dedicated Commando. "He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing." -Paul Atreides.
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 908	Posted - 2014.09.17 15:42:00 - [10] - Quote Thumb Green wrote: Shared passive scans make sense, I don't see why they wouldn't be able to share them with how advanced their technology is. Then again we're talking about people that still use iron sights as standard issue. Hell, their sonars can't even pick up gunfire. shared passive scans basically nullifies active scanners and makes them useless. but basically i forget which race but one of them can get 100m range on passive scans easly and in a 360degree. that is more then anything that an active scanner could do [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 1 Forum Pariah What ever happened to buffing Logi eHP in Delta?!

Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4856	Posted - 2014.09.17 15:44:00 - [11] - Quote Doesn't matter how much HP you give assault suits. Nothing trumps wallhacks. Nothing.
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 908	Posted - 2014.09.17 15:46:00 - [12] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Doesn't matter how much HP you give assault suits. Nothing trumps wallhacks. Nothing. yes and no.. its the combo of small hitbox, speed, able to fit adequate tank hide from passive and most active scanners* and also see most every suit on the map with in 100m in 360 degree which seems more OP then just the "wall hacks" [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 1 Forum Pariah What ever happened to buffing Logi eHP in Delta?!
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 908	Posted - 2014.09.17 15:53:00 - [13] - Quote Kierkegaard Soren wrote: Assaults get weapon bonuses that make them shine when fitted intelligently, but if agree that scouts are just better killers in all the ways that matter; speed, stealth, utility and firepower, not to mention the EWAR. But I still think they've been done properly. We just need to boost assaults so they can stay in fight longer; built in regen or a boost to armour/shield regen modules would be nice :) i specialize in medium suits and no matter which weapon the bonus dosnt really do anything for them if they are against scouts who can hide form tacnet/passive and still see you have about similar ehp and still have the usual rifle+sidearm but i think this is a bigger problem then just scouts still being better then assaults.. this goes to a whole problem with tacnet and info shareing... "shared passive scans" are vastly superior and infinatly more useful then active scanners are.. oen needs to be level 5 gal-logi and use proto focused active scanner to even FIND a scout.. and thats if they are not useing a cloak and ewar active scanners need a buff to find scouts with out gimping your suit.. and scout passive "wallhacks" need a nerf aswell as a tweek on the whole "shared passive scan" needs to be nerfed to 15-20m and "active scan" needs to be shared with entire team AND get points for intel assists +10 for outside of squad and +15 for inside squad [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 1 Forum Pariah What ever happened to buffing Logi eHP in Delta?!
Bright Steel Horizons' Edge Proficiency V. 88	Posted - 2014.09.17 16:03:00 - [14] - Quote If we found a way to eliminate tanked scouts the assaults would have a solid place on the battle field even with the shared scans. I remember someone calling for plates to be a percentage increase rather than X amount. It just doesn't make sense that my scout suite can't fit a HMG because it's to heavy but I can fit multiple complex armor plates that more than triples my armor.... The Best Worst game you can't stop playing..... DUST
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 908	Posted - 2014.09.17 16:07:00 - [15] - Quote Kierkegaard Soren wrote: Assaults get weapon bonuses that make them shine when fitted intelligently, but if agree that scouts are just better killers in all the ways that matter; speed, stealth, utility and firepower, not to mention the EWAR. But I still think they've been done properly. We just need to boost assaults so they can stay in fight longer; built in regen or a boost to armour/shield regen modules would be nice :) well the only assault i feel has been done right is the gallente assault.. at advanced level with its +2 armor rep you can build a 3/1 rep to plate and have easly 20-23hp/s rep for armor ontop of its 20 hp/s shield which makes it a good brawler and skirmisher (weapon dependent ofc)AR currently blow but i have hope for delta and AR's tho i feel the general gallente suit HP/s across all suits needs buffing. 5 hp/s across all suits scout, logi, commando, sentinel, assault, and basics. minmatar is sort of like a fatter scout in the way of speed and only speed :/ no ewar no wallhacks and its bonus only seems effective for sidearms or maybe the Full auto CR Only, so you can get 100 bullet clips with dual ASMGs and be completely limited to sub 20m engagements.. to make minmatar assault actually feel minmatar they need even more speed then the other assault suits. caldari dispite being shield tank is a good counter for all those whiners calling CR OP.. but then in the blink of an eye you can get your entire tank taken to 0 with a flux grenade or a charged shot of a ScR(currently not sure about delta). even with current rail rifles the weakness of suit vs strength of weapon used feels unbalanced like 70/30 as for amarr they do have more ehp then the others but i feel they are rather lacking overall if not running with logi support AND bricked.. while flexable in the sence they can easly be 100% armor and use highs for presision or damage they are slow and fat and have little in the way of regen so there is big downtimes between engagments if you get into a "tango" i think shayz once showed a half decent amarr assault build of dual rep plate and kinkat its obvious why the kinkat is there cause its fat and slow :P [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 1 Forum Pariah What ever happened to buffing Logi eHP in Delta?!
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 908	Posted - 2014.09.17 16:10:00 - [16] - Quote Bright Steel wrote: If we found a way to eliminate tanked scouts the assaults would have a solid place on the battle field even with the shared scans. I remember someone calling for plates to be a percentage increase rather than X amount. It just doesn't make sense that my scout suite can't fit a HMG because it's to heavy but I can fit multiple complex armor plates that more than triples my armor.... why not remove scouts ability to use light weapons? they are scouts so they should be fine with nova knives and other sidearms.. tho make an exception for them on shotguns and snipers to keep the QQ and tears from the FTOYear chasers down. but also nerf the pg and cpu on their suits to follow their change from Light+side to side+side [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 1 Forum Pariah What ever happened to buffing Logi eHP in Delta?!
Bright Steel Horizons' Edge Proficiency V. 89	Posted - 2014.09.17 16:29:00 - [17] - Quote Quote: why not remove scouts ability to use light weapons? they are scouts so they should be fine with nova knives and other sidearms.. tho make an exception for them on shotguns and snipers to keep the QQ and tears from the FTOYear chasers down. but also nerf the pg and cpu on their suits to follow their change from Light+side to side+side Or penalize them (CPU & PG) for using light weapons and heavy armor plates. The Best Worst game you can't stop playing..... DUST
Thumb Green Raymond James Corp 1467	Posted - 2014.09.17 17:09:00 - [18] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: Thumb Green wrote: Shared passive scans make sense, I don't see why they wouldn't be able to share them with how advanced their technology is. Then again we're talking about people that still use iron sights as standard issue. Hell, their sonars can't even pick up gunfire. shared passive scans basically nullifies active scanners and makes them useless. but basically i forget which race but one of them can get 100m range on passive scans easly and in a 360degree. that is more then anything that an active scanner could do Active scanners were just an SP sink to begin with and shouldn't have been put into the game. And you're idea to limit Scouts to sidearms is just stupid. No suit should be limited to just one set of weapons; however Bright Steel's suggestion right after that is actually good. We don't kick ass, we kick dick and we kick it hard. Join us in our Pumpkin Crushing
CommanderBolt TerranProtossZerg 1618	Posted - 2014.09.17 17:13:00 - [19] - Quote I have said it before and I will say it again. Amarr assault 5 and the Scrambler Rifle. This combo and the way CCP made this setup is perfect. If all assaults were in a similar vein, giving actual and substantial bonuses to their racial weapon.... maybe more people would love the assault. I have no problem with scouts, I think the ewar might be the biggest issues however. -=#[ Gastun's Forge ]#=- MY LIFE FOR AIUR! "I'm wasting away here" - "Get me back into zee fight!
Ryme Intrinseca Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1874	Posted - 2014.09.17 17:46:00 - [20] - Quote I've said it before and I'll say it again: SHARED PASSIVE SCANS ARE THE SAVIOUR OF ASSAULTS Why? Let's suppose you have Scout Squad (2 Amarr scout, 2 Caldari scout, 2 Gal scout) versus Mixed Squad (2 Amarr scout, 2 Min assault, 2 Amarr assault). 1. WITH shared passive scans, the mixed squad has a chance to win. This is because: (a) If the scout squad don't dampen, then the mixed squad, including the assaults, can see them on shared passive scan. So ewar is effectively nullified and it comes down to gank and tank. The mixed squad has a lot more gank (assault weapon bonuses) and tank (assault HP) and should win. (b) If the scout squad DO dampen, then they have the ewar advantage. But they're giving up a lot of module slots to do that, 2 per scout. Basically, in this scenario, we end up with a traditional sneaky, paper thin scout squad relying on the element of surprise versus a massively more tanked force of (mostly) assaults. I.e. the scouts will be scouting and the assaults will be assaulting. 2. WITHOUT shared passive scans, by contrast, the scouts are bound to win. This is because, even if the scout squad don't dampen, then they're still below the passive scan of the assaults! So there is little incentive for the scouts to dampen. They're best off just brick tanking and basically having most of the advantages of assaults while dominating ewar as well. TL;DR Passive scans give assaults in a mixed squad a fair shot at fighting against scouts. Remove passive scans and assaults really will be blind.

sabre prime Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 538	Posted - 2014.09.17 17:50:00 - [21] - Quote Assault suits are still basically meaningless and/or useless. Unless it's something like the amarr assault, which really helps to make a specific weapon shine, then there is almost no point in skilling into an assault suit. /end of ignorant comment Desperate attempt to get BPOs
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 909	Posted - 2014.09.17 18:08:00 - [22] - Quote Bright Steel wrote: Quote: why not remove scouts ability to use light weapons? they are scouts so they should be fine with nova knives and other sidearms.. tho make an exception for them on shotguns and snipers to keep the QQ and tears from the FTOYear chasers down. but also nerf the pg and cpu on their suits to follow their change from Light+side to side+side Or penalize them (CPU & PG) for using light weapons and heavy armor plates. that could work.. like they did for sentinels lower cpu and pg but a bonus for fitting Heavy weapons. [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 1 Forum Pariah What ever happened to buffing Logi eHP in Delta?!
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 909	Posted - 2014.09.17 18:10:00 - [23] - Quote sabre prime wrote: Assault suits are still basically meaningless and/or useless. Unless it's something like the amarr assault, which really helps to make a specific weapon shine, then there is almost no point in skilling into an assault suit. /end of ignorant comment i have tried amarr assault, i felt like gallente was better because it was faster and higher HP/s just because of the bonus 2hp/s on gallente suits. but amarr suits bricked and damage modded with logi support are a hell of a wall to try break past... unless you happen to be a scout and throw a few frisbee's and rake up half a dozen kills from them in the blink of an eye [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 1 Forum Pariah What ever happened to buffing Logi eHP in Delta?!
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 909	Posted - 2014.09.17 18:11:00 - [24] - Quote man- bear pig wrote: Please don't ** talk my assaults to try to prove your point about scouts being OP. you misunderstand, im trying to fight FOR assault suits. [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 1 Forum Pariah What ever happened to buffing Logi eHP in Delta?!**
Cpt McReady Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 20	Posted - 2014.09.17 18:26:00 - [25] - Quote assault should have their own weapon slot, the assault weapon slot. in the assault weapon slot you would be able to fit rifles (RR, CR, SCR, LR & AR). all other lights weapons would remain light weapons (sniper and shotgun) problem semi solved.
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 909	Posted - 2014.09.17 18:54:00 - [26] - Quote Cpt McReady wrote: assault should have their own weapon slot, the assault weapon slot. in the assault weapon slot you would be able to fit rifles (RR, CR, SCR, LR & AR). all other lights weapons would remain light weapons (sniper and shotgun) problem semi solved. but wouldnt that basically be like adding a sidearm onto commando? [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 1 Forum Pariah What ever happened to buffing Logi eHP in Delta?!
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Kyoudai Furinkazan 1196	Posted - 2014.09.17 20:20:00 - [27] - Quote Kierkegaard Soren wrote: Assaults get weapon bonuses that make them shine when fitted intelligently, but if agree that scouts are just better killers in all the ways that matter; speed, stealth, utility and firepower, not to mention the EWAR. But I still think they've been done properly. We just need to boost assaults so they can stay in fight longer; built in regen or a boost to armour/shield regen modules would be nice :) The community really do not want assaults to be potent , they would rather have them in between scouts and commando's when their power should be in between commando's and heavies . They are afraid of assaults being the real slayers . Nothing more OP then a role that actually does what it's suppose to do . I totally agree with the concept of them staying in the fight longer and this doesn't create a OP offensive power potential but it helps them to serve their initial purpose and that's to assault and be the slayers of New Eden . The thing that created slayer logi's was not the slot count and the CPU / PG , though that helped but the bonuses that gave them longevity on the battlefield like the built in rep bonuses or the bonus that gave shield efficacy , these items helped these troops stay in the fight longer and helped them support as well . Seems that's part of the reason that logistic doesn't have similar bonuses so that they would have greater longevity on the battlefield because CCP just didn't know what to do with it . Assaults should have similar bonuses but so should logistics again but not to the level of the assaults . Being able to last longer would make up for not being able to match or come close to the scouts attributes . Delta should come with a SP or infantry SP refund so that a campaign for one is not needed .
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 915	Posted - 2014.09.17 21:55:00 - [28] - Quote Thumb Green wrote: Apothecary Za'ki wrote: Thumb Green wrote: Shared passive scans make sense, I don't see why they wouldn't be able to share them with how advanced their technology is. Then again we're talking about people that still use iron sights as standard issue. Hell, their sonars can't even pick up gunfire. shared passive scans basically nullifies active scanners and makes them useless. but basically i forget which race but one of them can get 100m range on passive scans easly and in a 360degree. that is more then anything that an active scanner could do Active scanners were just an SP sink to begin with and shouldn't have been put into the game. And you're idea to limit Scouts to sidearms is just stupid. No suit should be limited to just one set of weapons; however Bright Steel's suggestion right after that is actually good. its not that stupid as i know many scouts who just run with sidearms, myself included when im bored, however i do agree with brightsteel and that particular concept.. i personally would still allow scouts to use ferroscale and reactive but would not allow them to use the BIG plates.. lore wise it could be that light suits/scout suits leg servo's cannot handle the additional weight or something. [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 1 Forum Pariah What ever happened to buffing Logi eHP in Delta?!
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 915	Posted - 2014.09.17 21:57:00 - [29] - Quote Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: Kierkegaard Soren wrote: Assaults get weapon bonuses that make them shine when fitted intelligently, but if agree that scouts are just better killers in all the ways that matter; speed, stealth, utility and firepower, not to mention the EWAR. But I still think they've been done properly. We just need to boost assaults so they can stay in fight longer; built in regen or a boost to armour/shield regen modules would be nice :) The community really do not want assaults to be potent , they would rather have them in between scouts and commando's when their power should be in between commando's and heavies . They are afraid of assaults being the real slayers . Nothing more OP then a role that actually does what it's suppose to do . I totally agree with the concept of them staying in the fight longer and this doesn't create a OP offensive power potential but it helps them to serve their initial purpose and that's to assault and be the slayers of New Eden . The thing that created slayer logi's was not the slot count and the CPU / PG , though that helped but the bonuses that gave them longevity on the battlefield like the built in rep bonuses or the bonus that gave shield efficacy , these items helped these troops stay in the fight longer and helped them support as well . Seems that's part of the reason that logistic doesn't have similar bonuses so that they would have greater longevity on the battlefield because CCP just didn't know what to do with it . Assaults should have similar bonuses but so should logistics again but not to the level of the assaults . Being able to last longer would make up for not being able to match or come close to the scouts attributes . currently i would regard scouts as being #1 while assault is #2 just because of more slots for precision or damp or reps or w/e.. and commando #3 because they are ridiculously limited on slots and they are as fat and slow as sentinels but 1/2 to 1/4 the HP [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 1 Forum Pariah What ever happened to buffing Logi eHP in Delta?!
Michael Arck 5585	Posted - 2014.09.17 22:02:00 - [30] - Quote Dont know. I run scout to find enemy position, sneak hack and drop uplinks. I never use it for frontal assault. I only use my CalAss for that. Archistrategos / The 7th Prime / Selah *Where the fear has gone there will be nothing....only I will remain



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