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Kirin Dark
23
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Posted - 2014.09.05 01:55:00 -
[31] - Quote
If a player can't CHOOSE to lighten up the competition for leisurely play other than by being Stomped, all the fun leaves the game- it's all about choices, you would be forcing players to do something they may not want to, that is an incredibly HUGE no-no in game design.
Mr. Literal
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Onesimus Tarsus
is-a-Corporation
2580
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Posted - 2014.09.05 01:56:00 -
[32] - Quote
Kirin Dark wrote:Onesimus Tarsus wrote:They deserve empty matches, and they couldn't maintain the KDR in said empty matches, because eventually someone shoots someone else. Overwatch is largely mythical. KDR padding only forces you higher up the competitive field probably past your ability to cope long-term. Ballasting (which I suppose is suiciding to stay at a stomp level) is downright goofy and marginal, and almost impossible to build squads and corps around. Slayers, by the dint of being slayers, would have a higher KDR than new and weaker players, forcing them up the ladder to face other slayers. And they better have good logis around, or they won't have an advantage.
Think deeper than one match. This system by its very nature creates an upwards spiral in competitive play that is impossible to maintain, WILL plateau and collapse The Fitting System allows players the CHOICE of leveled competition. Nope. It stabilizes everything by lethality, and lets real gameplay come through unimpeded.
K/D(r) matchmaking fixes the whole game. That's a promise.
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Kirin Dark
23
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Posted - 2014.09.05 01:57:00 -
[33] - Quote
Onesimus Tarsus wrote:WPs don't grow on trees
Ever been a Squad Leader riding shotgun in a proto tank with the defend order on it? No KDR, massive WPs
Mr. Literal
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Onesimus Tarsus
is-a-Corporation
2581
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Posted - 2014.09.05 02:00:00 -
[34] - Quote
Kirin Dark wrote:If a player can't CHOOSE to lighten up the competition for leisurely play other than by being Stomped, all the fun leaves the game- it's all about choices, you would be forcing players to do something they may not want to, that is an incredibly HUGE no-no in game design. Look, if they want insignificant play, there's the yo-yo. The real no-no in this case is allowing DUST to be some pointless lobby shooter anymore than it has to be. KDRmm eliminates that. And, I guess what goes around... So the players will also choose to give someone else an easy match by laying down and dying a lot?
K/D(r) matchmaking fixes the whole game. That's a promise.
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Onesimus Tarsus
is-a-Corporation
2581
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Posted - 2014.09.05 02:01:00 -
[35] - Quote
Kirin Dark wrote:Onesimus Tarsus wrote:WPs don't grow on trees Ever been a Squad Leader riding shotgun in a proto tank with the defend order on it? No KDR, massive WPs Ever tried doing that against an entire team of similarly-lethal opponents?
K/D(r) matchmaking fixes the whole game. That's a promise.
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Jathniel
G I A N T
1153
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Posted - 2014.09.05 02:02:00 -
[36] - Quote
I appreciate the proposal. But it's not really the gear that makes or breaks a match. It's core skills and passive bonuses. A lowbie/noob is a lowbie/noob regardless if he wears proto or not. A pro is a pro, regardless if he wears proto or not.
Once you have a certain amount of SP allocated into core/passive skills. The odds are pretty much in your favor, regardless of what gear is on the field.
Set your goals high, and shoot for the moon; even if you miss you'll land amongst the stars.
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Kirin Dark
24
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Posted - 2014.09.05 02:09:00 -
[37] - Quote
Onesimus Tarsus wrote:Look, if they want insignificant play, there's the yo-yo. The real no-no in this case is allowing DUST to be some pointless lobby shooter anymore than it has to be. KDRmm eliminates that. And, I guess what goes around... So the players will also choose to give someone else an easy match by laying down and dying a lot?
You just NAILED it! raising your KDR doesn't guarantee your skill level or ability to compete which would then "Yo-Yo" you right into the slums, no competition means no Experience, and gaming is all about the experience. if you get stomped you rage, if you win you cheer. This system of your would turn the WHOLE game not just the pub matches into that of a huge Lava Lamp.
Belive me, I turned this Idea over in my head a hundred times. But, it just flops.
My System would allow for creative customization, to see how good you could get in any given rank-remember this is PUB ONLY
if you base EVERYTHING on KDR alone you would have FoTMs allover the place, broken squads, Worse Blueberries, and no vehicles AKA CoD-Fest
Mr. Literal
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Kirin Dark
24
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Posted - 2014.09.05 02:13:00 -
[38] - Quote
Jathniel wrote:I appreciate the proposal. But it's not really the gear that makes or breaks a match. It's core skills and passive bonuses. A lowbie/noob is a lowbie/noob regardless if he wears proto or not. A pro is a pro, regardless if he wears proto or not.
Once you have a certain amount of SP allocated into core/passive skills. The odds are pretty much in your favor, regardless of what gear is on the field.
Onesimus Tarsus wrote: 50mil SP veteran in a STD suit is the same on the battlefield as a first-week post-academy neophyte? Not if the core skills are maximized.
Kirin Dark wrote:That's the whole point! The Skill Tree is the Heart and Soul of Dust, without it this is Space CoD You can still Dominate with your well earned SP but Gun Game still overrules your 25% advantage. Basic math here, it's more fair for the Neophyte if you have 25% more armor than him in a STD suit rather than 400% more armor in a Proto Suit that he can't whip out upon death like you can(this would stop with this system). he's still a disadvantaged Noob, but he still has a CHANCE.
We've been over this.
Mr. Literal
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Onesimus Tarsus
is-a-Corporation
2581
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Posted - 2014.09.05 02:19:00 -
[39] - Quote
Kirin Dark wrote:Onesimus Tarsus wrote:Look, if they want insignificant play, there's the yo-yo. The real no-no in this case is allowing DUST to be some pointless lobby shooter anymore than it has to be. KDRmm eliminates that. And, I guess what goes around... So the players will also choose to give someone else an easy match by laying down and dying a lot? You just NAILED it! raising your KDR doesn't guarantee your skill level or ability to compete which would then "Yo-Yo" you right into the slums, no competition means no Experience, and gaming is all about the experience. if you get stomped you rage, if you win you cheer. This system of your would turn the WHOLE game not just the pub matches into that of a huge Lava Lamp. Belive me, I turned this Idea over in my head a hundred times. But, it just flops. My System would allow for creative customization, to see how good you could get in any given rank-remember this is PUB ONLY if you base EVERYTHING on KDR alone you would have FoTMs allover the place, broken squads, Worse Blueberries, and no vehicles AKA CoD-Fest
Wow, just wow. Either you are incapable of understanding KDRmm for what it is, or you just don't want to admit the superiority of the system. I've turned it over in my head 101 times. It works. It just doesn't allow stomps, and a lot of people just can't bear a shooter game where they face people of similar lethality.
K/D(r) matchmaking fixes the whole game. That's a promise.
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Kirin Dark
24
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Posted - 2014.09.05 02:29:00 -
[40] - Quote
Onesimus Tarsus wrote:Wow, just wow. Either you are incapable of understanding KDRmm for what it is, or you just don't want to admit the superiority of the system. I've turned it over in my head 101 times. It works. It just doesn't allow stomps, and a lot of people just can't bear a shooter game where they face people of similar lethality.
Similar Lethality? We've been over the sniper/pilot KDR issue, right?
This system you call superior is the same as, throwing a cookie in a bag hitting it with a hammer and letting the crumbs settle by mass, the more times you hit the bag sure, the crumbs equalize in size and mass but the bag gets torn and now you are hemorrhaging cookie DUST514 player base.
Slayers will be slayers, we all know, but shots fired does not generate KDR and you can have more assists (that also don't even add .5 you your KDR) per kill
Fitting Ranks ignore all of that; as for you stack of KDR "simplicity" - FRMM eliminates that too, by essentially putting blinders on Scotty and partitioning the information necessary to sort per match
Mr. Literal
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Apothecary Za'ki
Biomass Positive
786
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Posted - 2014.09.05 02:35:00 -
[41] - Quote
Kirin Dark wrote:OK, so I was daydreaming at work (obviously not doing my job) and I was thinking about all the noobs and QQ's, as I so often do, and I thought to my self "Self, We need to find a way to shut these kids up and get them off MY team, while simultaneously giving those MLG wannabe Jerk-offs what they want."
SO- Ranking System!
I KNOW RIGHT?! The Title says it ALL!!
To the point, if CCP were to implement a simple patch (They WON'T) in which your LOAD-OUTS are RANKED it MIGHT make the game more fun for EVERYONE... Hear me out now.
So when you cue up for a battle you also select a RANK (1-5 seems like CCPs favorite number range) it would filter your Fittings(Suit and Vehicles alike) accordingly...Based on META LVL or Class, whatever.
LVL 1 - Almost completely MLT/STD gear. LVL 2 - A Healthy mix of STD and ADV gear. LVL 3 - Almost completely ADV gear. LVL 4 - A healthy mix of ADV and PRO gear. LVL 5 - Pretty much all PRO gear.
So the deal is, put a RANK bar at the bottom of ALL Fittings, if you add so much of one gear type it bumps you up to the next rank, so on and so forth.
In Battle, your fittings would be Valid / Invalidated based on the rank selected by your Squad Leader at the Contract Select screen-Makes life easier on Scotty too.
To be clear THIS WOULD ONLY APPLY TO PUB MATCHES - seeing as they theoretically have no effect on New Eden, PC and FW would be business as usual.
This would allow Everyone to basically select a Difficulty / Risk ratio and dial out most of the frustration in a game which, we can all admit, is doomed to be a Lobby Shooter.
TL;DR? Too Bad... i would say by your scale most matches are infact around level 2 level 3 mix with a slight hint of proto.. save a few of the stupidly rich PC isk horders who need to get rid of some isk so they run proto despite having no skill or a squad of proto stompers looking for Lulz.
[[LogiBro in Training]]
Level 1 Forum Pariah
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Atiim
11848
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Posted - 2014.09.05 02:36:00 -
[42] - Quote
CCP has already developed a better matchmaking system.
DUST 514's 1st Matari Commando
-HAND
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Kirin Dark
24
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Posted - 2014.09.05 02:38:00 -
[43] - Quote
Apothecary Za'ki wrote:i would say by your scale most matches are infact around level 2 level 3 mix with a slight hint of proto.. save a few of the stupidly rich PC isk horders who need to get rid of some isk so they run proto despite having no skill or a squad of proto stompers looking for Lulz.
You got it, and this would throw those proto stompers, Like myself, into proto or nearly proto only matches, until they ran out of ISK and could only afford to play STD/ADV tier matches.
Mr. Literal
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Kirin Dark
25
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Posted - 2014.09.05 02:42:00 -
[44] - Quote
Right you are, but, if you wold kindly look back at previous posts you would see that I do not seek to change Matchmaking as a whole, just augment it for more choices on the player side, unlike other fanatics.
nice charts BTW, thanks for the link
Mr. Literal
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Atiim
11848
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Posted - 2014.09.05 02:44:00 -
[45] - Quote
Kirin Dark wrote:Right you are, but, if you wold kindly look back at previous posts you would see that I do not seek to change Matchmaking as a whole, just augment it for more choices on the player side, unlike other fanatics. nice charts BTW, thanks for the link Apologies.
I simply skimmed through the thread to see if anyone had mentioned this yet. Though the changes you're suggesting would require a server-side patch, which isn't possible at the moment.
DUST 514's 1st Matari Commando
-HAND
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Kirin Dark
25
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Posted - 2014.09.05 02:49:00 -
[46] - Quote
Atiim wrote:The changes you're suggesting would require a server-side patch, which isn't possible at the moment.
Or anytime in the foreseeable future-as mentioned by my OP stating that this was all a daydream and would never happen.
Any way Destiny has the Free-roam, Story line, boss battles, PVP servers, and Jetbikes we were all promised. So the light of the Traveler has drawn me like a moth from the Dust.
Mr. Literal
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Vell0cet
Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo
2238
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Posted - 2014.09.05 03:59:00 -
[47] - Quote
Matchmaking by gear is a bad idea. You'll have squads militia stomping. WPs per death is a better metric and if you exclude team kills and suicides, it will be very hard to "game" the system. The only way to artificially lower your stats is to deliberately run at enemy players so they kill you--over and over.
Best PvE idea ever!
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hold that
Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic
225
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Posted - 2014.09.05 05:53:00 -
[48] - Quote
Keep as is. Learn 2 squad. Next thing you know people will be suggesting match according to sp spent. |
Imp Smash
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
222
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Posted - 2014.09.05 06:27:00 -
[49] - Quote
Oh, so like when anyone makes a new character and go trolls the academy in a LAV for millions of roadkills? Or a MLT?
I mean -- the concept of a tuner is cool but - you ARE going to have a group of 6 150k suit protobears set theirs for level 1......every other game... |
CUSE TOWN333
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
1347
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Posted - 2014.09.05 08:59:00 -
[50] - Quote
Kirin Dark wrote:OK, so I was daydreaming at work (obviously not doing my job) and I was thinking about all the noobs and QQ's, as I so often do, and I thought to my self "Self, We need to find a way to shut these kids up and get them off MY team, while simultaneously giving those MLG wannabe Jerk-offs what they want."
SO- Ranking System!
I KNOW RIGHT?! The Title says it ALL!!
To the point, if CCP were to implement a simple patch (They WON'T) in which your LOAD-OUTS are RANKED it MIGHT make the game more fun for EVERYONE... Hear me out now.
So when you cue up for a battle you also select a RANK (1-5 seems like CCPs favorite number range) it would filter your Fittings(Suit and Vehicles alike) accordingly...Based on META LVL or Class, whatever.
LVL 1 - Almost completely MLT/STD gear. LVL 2 - A Healthy mix of STD and ADV gear. LVL 3 - Almost completely ADV gear. LVL 4 - A healthy mix of ADV and PRO gear. LVL 5 - Pretty much all PRO gear.
So the deal is, put a RANK bar at the bottom of ALL Fittings, if you add so much of one gear type it bumps you up to the next rank, so on and so forth.
In Battle, your fittings would be Valid / Invalidated based on the rank selected by your Squad Leader at the Contract Select screen-Makes life easier on Scotty too.
To be clear THIS WOULD ONLY APPLY TO PUB MATCHES - seeing as they theoretically have no effect on New Eden, PC and FW would be business as usual.
This would allow Everyone to basically select a Difficulty / Risk ratio and dial out most of the frustration in a game which, we can all admit, is doomed to be a Lobby Shooter.
TL;DR? Too Bad... lmao if you think there is enuf players in this game to fill 5 different LVLs of gamemodes.
KEQ diplomat/ intel /GC officer
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TheD1CK
Dead Man's Game
1215
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Posted - 2014.09.05 11:28:00 -
[51] - Quote
Imp Smash wrote:Oh, so like when anyone makes a new character and go trolls the academy in a LAV for millions of roadkills? Or a MLT?
I mean -- the concept of a tuner is cool but - you ARE going to have a group of 6 150k suit protobears set theirs for level 1......every other game...
The proposal could work for at least more co-ordinated pub battles, either way stomps are in every second match at least The enemy team ends up stacked with whatever and if you don't have the counters then it's usually a loss...
The 5 levels would be impossible but would even 2 levels? 3 levels? be possible..
Seperate the allowed fittings by meta level.. bla bla bla
Or another scenario, seperate into 1 other category, which enables all the BlueBs with Mlt or basic to roam free This clears our servers of the mercs that contribute nothing to the outcome of battles, making good fights in pubs
Farming goes on either way, n00bs face proto squads either way.. No one really gives a damn 0o
So while some squads will 'farm' the low tier servers (It happens regardless) there would be an option for better fights where your minimum fits could be as low as (Basic-Pro/Adv modules) then up to Proto...
This would at least seperate the Troll farmers and BlueBs from casual servers.. DO IT
But again bla bla bla, client updates, player counts and various reasons why it wont happen....
Innapropriate Irrelevence...
Welcome to the Dust Forum, hang around to see why everyone else left :/
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Kirin Dark
28
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Posted - 2014.09.05 12:14:00 -
[52] - Quote
Imp Smash wrote:the concept of a tuner is cool but - you ARE going to have a group of 6 150k suit protobears set theirs for level 1......every other game...
That's the Point, everyone can Still Stomp with their PROTO SKILLS, but in order to get at noobs you have to give up the PROTO SUIT, and your skill at max will give you an overall 25% advantage over a Day 1 Tenderfoot.
But a headshot is a headshot-if he has some Gun Game or is a vet starting a new Alt, ultimately he is disadvantaged, Yes, but not so-much as he would be if he were against a full proto 55mil Lifetime SP Vet in a Stomp Suit
Setting the Rank to level 1 would mean they could only bring their MLT teddie bear suits into battle.
Mr. Literal
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Onesimus Tarsus
is-a-Corporation
2584
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Posted - 2014.09.05 13:48:00 -
[53] - Quote
Kirin Dark wrote:Imp Smash wrote:the concept of a tuner is cool but - you ARE going to have a group of 6 150k suit protobears set theirs for level 1......every other game... That's the Point, everyone can Still Stomp with their PROTO SKILLS, but in order to get at noobs you have to give up the PROTO SUIT, and your skill at max will give you an overall 25% advantage over a Day 1 Tenderfoot. But a headshot is a headshot-if he has some Gun Game or is a vet starting a new Alt, ultimately he is disadvantaged, Yes, but not so-much as he would be if he were against a full proto 55mil Lifetime SP Vet in a Stomp Suit Setting the Rank to level 1 would mean they could only bring their MLT teddie bear suits into battle.
So, since the only real advantage ever is core skills, and playing ADV/PRO gear takes you away from everyone that it truly represents an advantage over (since you cannot play new people in ADV/PRO gear), wouldn't the only real option be to max cores, never go ADV/PRO in anything, and keep on stomping the newest people possible? Why, yes, it would. Then, squads of core-maxed STD gear vets tear the new players apart forever while your upper tiers stay empty because stomp.
Congratulations, you just removed ADV and PRO gear from the game. Marketing thanks you.
K/D(r) matchmaking fixes the whole game. That's a promise.
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Kirin Dark
29
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Posted - 2014.09.06 16:09:00 -
[54] - Quote
Onesimus Tarsus wrote:So, since the only real advantage ever is core skills, and playing ADV/PRO gear takes you away from everyone that it truly represents an advantage over (since you cannot play new people in ADV/PRO gear), wouldn't the only real option be to max cores, never go ADV/PRO in anything, and keep on stomping the newest people possible? Why, yes, it would. Then, squads of core-maxed STD gear vets tear the new players apart forever while your upper tiers stay empty because stomp.
Congratulations, you just removed ADV and PRO gear from the game. Marketing thanks you.
not so much for basic math are ya?
OK Example time: Minmatar
If you were a noob in a STD Assault Starter Fit With:
CPU: 160 PG: 27 Shield: 150 Armor: 135 Sprint Speed: 7.42m/s Stamina: 200.00 Stamina Recovery: 50.00/sec Profile: 50dB Precision: 50dB Range: 10M
And a STD Combat Rifle which does 1458 DMG/Clip if you nail EVERY shot
Would you like to face a Vet in a STD Suit at Rank 1:
CPU: 208 PG: 35 Shield: 188 Armor: 169 Sprint Speed: 7.8m/s Stamina: 210.00 Stamina Recovery: 53.00/sec Profile: 45dB Precision: 45dB Range: 15M
With a STD Combat Rifle with Skills that deals 2095 DMG/Clip
Or That same Vet Who is now Rocking an MK.0 with:
CPU: 462.5 PG: 83 Shield: 250 Armor: 231 Sprint Speed: 7.8m/s Stamina: 210.00 Stamina Recovery: 53.00/sec Profile: 45dB Precision: 45dB Range: 15M
And a Boundless Combat Rifle Dealing 2305 DMG/Clip
You obviously have a better chance with STD Vets than PRO
Onesimus Tarsus wrote: Then, squads of core-maxed STD gear vets tear the new players apart forever while your upper tiers stay empty because stomp.
Not really, I mean I'm not a hardcore grinder so If I knew the ISK payout would be greater at Tier 5, because of the whole Biomass/Cost-destruction bonus, that's where I would be, not wasting time and suits on noobs.
Mr. Literal
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