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Fizzer XCIV
Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire
180
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Posted - 2014.08.31 04:17:00 -
[31] - Quote
Monkey MAC wrote:We all know the ScR is OP, the maths has been confirming it for ages, and the in-game stats from rattati also. But before I begin lets get a few things out of the way.
1. The ScR is a higher skill based weapon Under what context, the shots from the scrambled rifle behave in the exact same manner as every other rifle, their is travel time, their is no lack of aim assist, if anything it has better hipfire accuracy making it even easier to use.
2. The ScR is terrible against armour No its not, its just not as effective, but despite this it can still outperform the armour profile weapons anyway. It has so much DPS it simply outpowers this drawback.
So now we begin, the problem with the ScR and suddenly the over performing burst HMG is that its a front loaded weapon, all the damage is at the beginning of the weapons time scale.
What this means is that in 1v1 engagements it will win out almost every time, because the only time the overheat is a problem ina 1v1 is if you didn't manage to kill your opponent before you overheated, which I have proven in plenty of previous posts is rather difficult to with the amount of damage you can dish out before this happens.
Now you may say this balances the weapon, since it become useless against more than one person at a time, but think about every other weapon, how many weapons can you say are capable of engaging multiple people at a time and still coming out on top?
I personally can only think of 1 the HMG, which happens to have terrible range and accuracy while being strapped to the slowest moving suits in game, it can be easily outranged or outmanoeuvred.
So what you are in effect saying their is that it should take 2 people to take an ScR user, because that sounds like tanker logic and we all know what happened to them!
Personally the ScR needs a few changes 1. TACAR levels of hip fire dispersion 2. Lower ROF (480 RPM - Though am willing to conceed 520) 3. Longer delay after a charge shot Can you please stop with the "ermahgerd ert hers atehunnerd deepee-ess! that's OPPPp!" That amount of DPS is NEVER achieved by someone without nodded hardware. At most, the DPS achieved by skilled/twitchy/#blessedbythefingergods ScR users reaches 600, maybe 650, and even then, it would never be sustained for more than perhaps 3-4 rounds at most. On average, I would venture to say typical ScR users hover around 450-500 DPS in their volleys.
It isn't the ScR that's OP, its the controller that is OP.
That said, I do think the ScR could have a reduction to its RoF, but I don't think it should be under 525 rounds per minute, or more than 550 rounds per minute.
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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
3389
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Posted - 2014.08.31 10:04:00 -
[32] - Quote
P14GU3 wrote:We've seen your numbers mac. You compared it with an Obviously UP rifle and it still only beat it out in the first two seconds and the last 11? Lol what fights even last that long. You forget to mention when talking about how its not a skill weapon that missing a single shot is roughly the equivalent of losing 1/10 to 1/20 of its dps.. in just a single shot. Come on, you and I both know, that without a modded pad, this is the most balanced rifle in the game
If its the most balanced rifle, why is out performing the other rifles? Why is it doing better than every other rifle choice right now? IT IS FRONT LOADED, which like the Burst HMG is the reason it over performs, since afterall overheat is a problem if your enemy is already dead.
If anything the AR is the most balanced rifle, it has a high DPS and short range like its supposed to it has decent accuracy a fair amount of kick and plenty of dispersion, it requires tactics to get into its preffered range, until an ScR comes along and blasts through in the 2 seconds of an engagement, inside your optimal at your preferred fight. And that is balanced, don't give me that Codswallop!
They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank!
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
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Monkey MAC
Rough Riders..
3389
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Posted - 2014.08.31 10:12:00 -
[33] - Quote
Fizzer XCIV wrote:Monkey MAC wrote:We all know the ScR is OP, the maths has been confirming it for ages, and the in-game stats from rattati also. But before I begin lets get a few things out of the way.
1. The ScR is a higher skill based weapon Under what context, the shots from the scrambled rifle behave in the exact same manner as every other rifle, their is travel time, their is no lack of aim assist, if anything it has better hipfire accuracy making it even easier to use.
2. The ScR is terrible against armour No its not, its just not as effective, but despite this it can still outperform the armour profile weapons anyway. It has so much DPS it simply outpowers this drawback.
So now we begin, the problem with the ScR and suddenly the over performing burst HMG is that its a front loaded weapon, all the damage is at the beginning of the weapons time scale.
What this means is that in 1v1 engagements it will win out almost every time, because the only time the overheat is a problem ina 1v1 is if you didn't manage to kill your opponent before you overheated, which I have proven in plenty of previous posts is rather difficult to with the amount of damage you can dish out before this happens.
Now you may say this balances the weapon, since it become useless against more than one person at a time, but think about every other weapon, how many weapons can you say are capable of engaging multiple people at a time and still coming out on top?
I personally can only think of 1 the HMG, which happens to have terrible range and accuracy while being strapped to the slowest moving suits in game, it can be easily outranged or outmanoeuvred.
So what you are in effect saying their is that it should take 2 people to take an ScR user, because that sounds like tanker logic and we all know what happened to them!
Personally the ScR needs a few changes 1. TACAR levels of hip fire dispersion 2. Lower ROF (480 RPM - Though am willing to conceed 520) 3. Longer delay after a charge shot Can you please stop with the "ermahgerd ert hers atehunnerd deepee-ess! that's OPPPp!" That amount of DPS is NEVER achieved by someone without nodded hardware. At most, the DPS achieved by skilled/twitchy/#blessedbythefingergods ScR users reaches 600, maybe 650, and even then, it would never be sustained for more than perhaps 3-4 rounds at most. On average, I would venture to say typical ScR users hover around 450-500 DPS in their volleys. It isn't the ScR that's OP, its the controller that is OP. That said, I do think the ScR could have a reduction to its RoF, but I don't think it should be under 525 rounds per minute, or more than 550 rounds per minute. I think 540 is perfect. 9 rounds per second on the nose. A good percentage of players can actually achieve that RoF, thus the advantage conferred by modded hardware becomes negligible at most.
If a good percentage can hit 9 shots per second that's nearly 650, which still 200 more than the AR, which is the point I'm making some people have been taking that 11 shot per second extreme, but I have always used 8, I've even been accused of attempting to defend the rifle because of that, the ScR simply should not have more DPS at short range than a short range weapon. It is broken, completely and utterly broken!
It needs for its range an average DPS of 400-415, where its lower than the Assault Variant Rifles of all but the caldari and the burst CR only marginally wins out, making its new damage profile come into play.
They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank!
Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
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Imp Smash
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
218
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Posted - 2014.09.01 08:56:00 -
[34] - Quote
As a few people have said - it's the rof and modded controllers that break the ScR. Needing range or damage will punish the players that use it fair while still giving turbo controller players their advantage. Drop the Rof. Someone mention 540 earlier. 9 a second is pretty damn fast. I'd kick it up a tad to closer to 600 just for the people who naturally shoot a tad faster. Then change overheat to be based on times spent pushing the button as opposed to shots fired. That way people who still use turbo controllers get a huge heat buildup disadvantage and force honest play.
I think it is unlikely anyone can reasonably argue against that (except make excuses cause they want to keep their modded controller cheating death machine) |
bamboo x
Eternal Beings Proficiency V.
1105
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Posted - 2014.09.01 09:28:00 -
[35] - Quote
get rid of it i dont use it
Eternal Beings - #76 in All Time WP - #90 in All Time Kills. Member since day one, 10 months ago.
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CUSE TOWN333
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
1286
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Posted - 2014.09.01 11:55:00 -
[36] - Quote
people crying about the scrambler are people who are useing other OP gear and don't like being killed ever. so i say if you nerf the scrambler rifle then the combat rifle should be nerfed along with nova knifes shotguns burst HMGs regular HMGs ADS dropships all scouts EWAR wallhacks and HP and cloak. seems fair to me if we are really concerned wit balance and all and are not just some caldari scout scrub all of a sudden thats getting ganked by scrambler rifles.
KEQ diplomat/ intel /GC officer
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TechMechMeds
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
5408
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Posted - 2014.09.01 13:11:00 -
[37] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Vitharr Foebane wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:* cap RoF at human limits * increase hipfire dispersion how does a laser get dispersion? Would you rather have falloff damage?
Just be quiet and let it be lol.
My hometown beat Manchester united.
Git gud man utd.
4-0
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TechMechMeds
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
5408
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Posted - 2014.09.01 13:12:00 -
[38] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Zindorak wrote:ScR is fine end of disscusion *Less dispersion than AR, yet designed for long range. *Outperforms all Conventional Rifles. *RoF that can't be reached by humans. If this is fine, may I have my pre-nerf Tactical PR back?
Scr terrorist!.
My hometown beat Manchester united.
Git gud man utd.
4-0
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TechMechMeds
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
5408
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Posted - 2014.09.01 13:17:00 -
[39] - Quote
I tried using the scr on my amarr alt with no damage mods and the std and it was pretty weak actually.
Damage mods and proto variants vs mlt/std newbs is blurring the lines.
Try stacking 3 complex damage mods on any gun with prof 3+, it becomes 'op'. It annihilates even vs it's efficacy weakness.
Even the ion pistol people, yes.
I'm up for an rof nerf definitely as it will screw the turbo scum.
My hometown beat Manchester united.
Git gud man utd.
4-0
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