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Duke Noobiam
S.e.V.e.N.
General Tso's Alliance
139
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Posted - 2014.08.22 17:54:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hi everyone...
What are your thoughts on allowing a respec for Aurum? I know most of the community would like this and I'm sure CCP would like the money it could generate, so why not?
The argument has been made that abusing a respec mechanism would make the game "pay to win". This could easily be countered via a SP percentage penalty (don't really like this option) or by making the respec so expensive that very few would have the means to exploit it.
So here is what I am proposing. Make a respec cost 50000 to 100000 Aurum ($25 to $50). That way, if someone is willing to pay a price equivalent to purchasing a new game they get a respec, they don't want to support the game (or can't afford to), no problem, just keep grinding.
Let me know what you all think, maybe a CPM can let us know if this is still being discussed at CCP.
How do you kill that which has no life?
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Soraya Xel
Abandoned Privilege
Top Men.
3176
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Posted - 2014.08.22 18:20:00 -
[2] - Quote
As much as I hate respecs in general, I'd be okay with an aurum-based respec. It allows people who absolutely have their heart set on respeccing do so, by supporting the game, without being abusable enough to encourage FOTM play. At least, FOTM play would come with a hefty cost. (As a note, the CPM as a whole doesn't have a consensus opinion on this topic, I think.)
The big thing is that something like this likely couldn't be done without a client patch to add a way to trigger such a respec. As of right now, all respecs that have been done were triggered behind the scenes by CCP. So as long as we're limited to hotfixes, it's probably off the table.
This isn't something we've discussed with CCP, but that doesn't necessarily mean it isn't being discussed within CCP.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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Zatara Rought
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
3907
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Posted - 2014.08.22 21:49:00 -
[3] - Quote
If they were going to implement this I'd suggest it had a limit of once every 3 months and perhaps a price point of $25 in aur value but also just make a bundle with just the respec in mind for like 19.99.
B3RT > PFBHz > TEAM > MHPD > IMPS > FA
They call me ~Princess Zatata~
Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought
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Kevall Longstride
DUST University
Ivy League
1582
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Posted - 2014.08.23 08:29:00 -
[4] - Quote
I'd support it if there is SP cost in a paid for respec,say 5 to 10% of your SP total. It'll be the only way to detere the fotm chasers.
CPM 1 member
CEO of DUST University
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DJINN Rampage
Pure Evil.
1387
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Posted - 2014.08.23 11:07:00 -
[5] - Quote
10% of your SP for a respec? lulz, for me that'd be 6 million SP, smh, to chase a FOTM which i could get in 2 weeks anyways, but tbh, its unfair cuz players at my skill cap dont even spec into stuff most of the time and usually have the SP sitting around for it anyways, just saying.
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Soraya Xel
Abandoned Privilege
Top Men.
3183
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Posted - 2014.08.24 20:28:00 -
[6] - Quote
The idea point to an SP cost for a respec, is that if it was percentage-based, it'd be minor and easily surpassable for a newbro, but very costly and painful for a veteran who could just as easily grind out the new SP they need.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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Haerr
Legio DXIV
1238
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Posted - 2014.08.25 15:17:00 -
[7] - Quote
25Gé¼ & 10% Total SP? Perhaps a few who want to switch between Infantry and Vehicles would go for that.
10% SP is a whole lot of boosters... |
Haerr
Legio DXIV
1249
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Posted - 2014.08.25 21:43:00 -
[8] - Quote
Here is a way of making it bearable while still strongly discouraging FotM chasing.
First respec: 3% SP drained.
Second respec: 6% SP drained.
Third respec: 9% SP drained.
Or something to that effect. |
Tech De Ra
Electronic Sports League
554
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Posted - 2014.08.26 08:43:00 -
[9] - Quote
Haerr wrote:Here is a way of making it bearable while still strongly discouraging FotM chasing.
First respec: 3% SP drained.
Second respec: 6% SP drained.
Third respec: 9% SP drained.
Or something to that effect.
If you had to absolutely put a respec system into the game, which in my opinion should never happen, having a scaling SP cost like this would deter constant use, i'm not keen on it requiring aurum though
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Jebus McKing
Legio DXIV
595
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Posted - 2014.08.26 21:57:00 -
[10] - Quote
Give new players a free respec option when they hit 5mil SP. - By then they should know what they really want to use their SP for and it gives them a chance to try out different suits and weapons before making a choice.
Give everyone a free respec once a year. - Lots of things change over the course of a year. Giving a respec to everyone once a year helps to reduce frustration, enables people to try a new playstyle to keep things fresh, and makes people happy. Also people can chase FOTM only once a year.
Give partial respec option everytime there are major changes like changing bonuses around. - Like the Scout bonus changes in Charlie, but not for number changes like balancing the rifles. It is very frustrating if you invested SP into a certain suit because of a certain bonus and then CCP decides to simply remove that bonus or give it to a different suit. Giving partial respecs in these situations should be the obvious thing to do.
I don't think that paid for respecs are a good idea because they are too hard to balance. On the one hand you don't want to give huge advantages to the ones paying but on the other hand those people want to get something that is worth their money. Even with a SP penalty people would still be chasing FOTM and those that can afford to buy respecs regularly will probably also have the money to buy boosters to compensate for the lost SP. Not to mention the pay2win outcry that a respec for Aurum option would cause.
OP is a kitten.
@JebusMcKing
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Soraya Xel
Abandoned Privilege
Top Men.
3207
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Posted - 2014.08.27 22:02:00 -
[11] - Quote
Jebus McKing wrote:Give new players a free respec option when they hit 5mil SP
I could envision something like this.
Jebus McKing wrote:Give everyone a free respec once a year
lolno
Jebus McKing wrote:Give partial respec option everytime there are major changes like changing bonuses around
roflno
Jebus McKing wrote:Not to mention the pay2win outcry that a respec for Aurum option would cause.
Respecs aren't necessary, and don't afford you more SP. In fact, since I suggest they have a penalty, they afford you less SP. That's not pay to win. It's an optional thing, you shouldn't need. The definition of a great pay for item/service in a free to play game.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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Haerr
Legio DXIV
1305
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Posted - 2014.08.28 08:43:00 -
[12] - Quote
I had an other thought about how to penalize the respec.
It is basically like a top level tax.
First 10 mil SP has a 5% "tax"
Second 10 mil SP has a 6% "tax"
3:rd 10 mil SP has a 7% "tax"
...
So if you have 50 mil sp and want to use the respec it goes like this.
10^7 * 5% = 500000
10^7 * 6% = 600000
10^7 * 7% = 700000
10^7 * 8% = 800000
10^7 * 9% = 900000
Total SP lost for a respec at 50 mil SP = 3'500'000
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Zatara Rought
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
3998
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Posted - 2014.08.28 10:23:00 -
[13] - Quote
Fascinating Haerr. :)
B3RT > PFBHz > TEAM > MHPD > IMPS > FA
They call me ~Princess Zatata~
Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought
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Haerr
Legio DXIV
1305
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Posted - 2014.08.28 11:02:00 -
[14] - Quote
Zatara Rought wrote:Fascinating Haerr. :)
By now it is pretty obvious that I would opt in for a respec, eh? ;-)
This SCOTTY has Super Cow Powers.
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Jebus McKing
Legio DXIV
598
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Posted - 2014.08.28 11:57:00 -
[15] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:lolnoroflno
10/10
best contribution to the discussion
I enjoy discussing things with CPM members everytime.
OP is a kitten.
@JebusMcKing
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Soraya Xel
Abandoned Privilege
Top Men.
3210
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Posted - 2014.08.28 13:40:00 -
[16] - Quote
Jebus McKing wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:lolnoroflno 10/10 best contribution to the discussion I enjoy discussing things with CPM members everytime.
Glad to help. :)
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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Dust User
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
507
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Posted - 2014.08.28 18:41:00 -
[17] - Quote
I hope this never happens. |
Senator Snipe
Onikanabo Brigade
Caldari State
183
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Posted - 2014.08.28 19:13:00 -
[18] - Quote
Dust User wrote:I hope this never happens.
agreed
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Jathniel
G I A N T
1151
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Posted - 2014.08.30 23:55:00 -
[19] - Quote
Why the opposition to the respec?
Because "CCP said so"?
Or is there some measurable logistic to why something so seemingly simple should be denied?
CCP clearly doesn't want the money, and AURUM respecs could potentially earn them money.
So why? Why so much opposition?
I'm not asking, just to disagree. I'm asking because the few reasons floating around are:
1. Because CCP said so (which doesn't answer the question).
2. Because CCP doesn't want players to have the flexibility to move between skills outside of SP accrual.
If it's the 2nd reason, then why?
I would like to respec, just to switch things up a abit and keep the game fresh, and for trying out theory builds, etc. But I don't do those things and hardly play Dust at all, precisely because I can't respec.
FOTM chasing wouldn't be a bad thing. this considered. Respecs would allow practically every FOTM to be exposed or used, and this can allow for more efficient rebalancing
Over time, as we get more SP, respecs would gradually stop occurring.
Set your goals high, and shoot for the moon; even if you miss you'll land amongst the stars.
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Soraya Xel
Abandoned Privilege
Top Men.
3222
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Posted - 2014.08.31 02:21:00 -
[20] - Quote
The whole point of SP, is that it isn't supposed to make you better so much as it gives you more flexibility. That it shouldn't take long to max out a single role, but that by continuing to amass SP, you can expand to being capable of more roles. The system is not designed for respecs. Respecs should really never happen on an SP system like this. It fundamentally defeats the purpose of the game design. Because why continuing gaining SP to gain access to more roles, when you can just switch roles whenever you want?
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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Jathniel
G I A N T
1153
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Posted - 2014.08.31 03:58:00 -
[21] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:The whole point of SP, is that it isn't supposed to make you better so much as it gives you more flexibility. That it shouldn't take long to max out a single role, but that by continuing to amass SP, you can expand to being capable of more roles. The system is not designed for respecs. Respecs should really never happen on an SP system like this. It fundamentally defeats the purpose of the game design. Because why continuing gaining SP to gain access to more roles, when you can just switch roles whenever you want?
I take your point, but...
Normal SP acquisition gives you immediate flexibility within an actual fight. 100% flexibility for a player that can do everything should be something difficult to achieve. It's the purpose in growth and purpose in playing. (Yet, we have SP events, which by their very function, literally decrease the game's life time.)
Going from scout to heavy, LAV to dropship, front-liner to stealth hacker... having flexibility mid match can only be achieved through normal SP accrual.
And this is a good thing.
But...
A respec does not permit the level of flexibility that normal SP accrual will give over time.
What a respec would do, is give players the ability to maximize the efficiency of the points they DO possess.
- Some would spread points out to get more flexibility.
- Some would focus points to maximize a specialization.
- Some would develop FOTMs.
- Some would develop counter-FOTMs.
A lot of the frustration causing players to demand respecs, isn't only because CCP enables or disables various FOTMs via rebalancing. But because of how slow CCP is in doing that rebalancing. Normal SP accrual means grinding (usually slowly and unhappily) to adapt to something that is going to get rebalanced anyway, some day.
It literally takes months and years, for balancing issues to be addressed.
And that's fair, CCP should be allowed to approach rebalancing methodically and at their own pace.
But in the meantime, respecs permit everyone to deal with the FOTMs in their own way.
So again, I take your point on flexibility.
But saying that respecs make normal SP accrual obsolete in acquiring flexibility, is simply not true. Especially, for those with precious little SP.
EDIT: I'm sure CCP thought about this as well, and I know what I'm saying isn't unreasonable.
So what's the real reason CCP doesn't want to permit a respec system? Have they experimented with this before? In EVE, I can plenty see why a respec system is not a good idea. It can and would literally create shockwaves that can break everything economically and otherwise.
But Dust is not so complex and therefore not so fragile a system by comparison.
Set your goals high, and shoot for the moon; even if you miss you'll land amongst the stars.
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Haerr
Legio DXIV
1316
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Posted - 2014.09.02 13:59:00 -
[22] - Quote
Any updates on this?
Or is the SP transfer to Legion the closest thing that we are going to have to a respec?
This SCOTTY has Super Cow Powers.
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Soraya Xel
Abandoned Privilege
Top Men.
3237
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Posted - 2014.09.02 14:17:00 -
[23] - Quote
Haerr wrote:Any updates on this?
Well, as I said before, I don't think there's any way to implement this in a hotfix. So while it's certainly a discussion point, I think the technical limitations hold it back, for now.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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Jathniel
G I A N T
1153
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Posted - 2014.09.05 02:07:00 -
[24] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Haerr wrote:Any updates on this? Well, as I said before, I don't think there's any way to implement this in a hotfix. So while it's certainly a discussion point, I think the technical limitations hold it back, for now.
A fair response.
Set your goals high, and shoot for the moon; even if you miss you'll land amongst the stars.
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Haerr
Clone Manque
1604
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Posted - 2014.10.10 06:55:00 -
[25] - Quote
Haerr wrote:10^7 * 5% = 500'000 GÇö Total: 500'000 SP for a Respec at 10 million
10^7 * 6% = 600'000 GÇö Total: 1'100'000 SP for a Respec at 20 million
10^7 * 7% = 700'000 GÇö Total: 1'800'000 SP for a Respec at 30 million
10^7 * 8% = 800'000 GÇö Total: 2'600'000 SP for a Respec at 40 million
10^7 * 9% = 900'000 GÇö Total: 3'500'000 SP for a Respec at 50 million
10^7 * 10% = 1'000'000 GÇö Total: 4'500'000 SP for a Respec at 60 million
10^7 * 11% = 1'100'000 GÇö Total: 5'600'000 SP for a Respec at 70 million
Regarding this suggestion; it would strongly discourage players to use the respec option if they had to pay the tax upfront with unallocated SP. It would also put into perspective just how much work they would have to give up in order to be allowed a respec. And possibly dissuade players from respecing once they have managed to save up the required amount of unallocated SP. |
Viktor Hadah Jr
Negative-Impact
Gentlemen's.Club
5341
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Posted - 2014.10.10 08:22:00 -
[26] - Quote
CPM in don't understand why you are pitching ideas that require the respec to cost money. If players were given the option between paying for a respec and receiving one for free they would choice free.
You are here to represent the players not make money for CCP last i checked. What is stopping you from trying to achieve free respecs?
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Soraya Xel
Abandoned Privilege
Top Men.
4110
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Posted - 2014.10.10 14:26:00 -
[27] - Quote
Viktor Hadah Jr wrote:CPM in don't understand why you are pitching ideas that require the respec to cost money. If players were given the option between paying for a respec and receiving one for free they would choice free.
You are here to represent the players not make money for CCP last i checked. What is stopping you from trying to achieve free respecs?
A lot of players don't want respecs to be available. Many players, are at least, insistent there be limitations to prevent abuse. Cost is a good limitation. Aside from the point that CCP making money on DUST is good for all players of DUST. And when you're trying to avoid pay to win, the best things to suggest be available for AUR are things that are "completely unnecessary", which is about how I classify respecs.
Moot point though at the moment though. Respecs are not currently an automated process.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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Viktor Hadah Jr
Negative-Impact
Gentlemen's.Club
5355
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Posted - 2014.10.11 01:36:00 -
[28] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Viktor Hadah Jr wrote:CPM in don't understand why you are pitching ideas that require the respec to cost money. If players were given the option between paying for a respec and receiving one for free they would choice free.
You are here to represent the players not make money for CCP last i checked. What is stopping you from trying to achieve free respecs? A lot of players don't want respecs to be available. Many players, are at least, insistent there be limitations to prevent abuse. Cost is a good limitation. Aside from the point that CCP making money on DUST is good for all players of DUST. And when you're trying to avoid pay to win, the best things to suggest be available for AUR are things that are "completely unnecessary", which is about how I classify respecs. Moot point though at the moment though. Respecs are not currently an automated process.
There are other limitations possible that do not require us to pay from our wallet. Proto is suppose to be limited by cost but people can abuse that if they really want and run proto 24/7. The only people who are really going to be hurt from having a aurum cost money is the newer and more casual players who do not want to pay ether because they are not invested in the game enough or they just don't have the money. If players who are that serious about this game and there goal is to abuse the mechanics money won't stop them. There are things like time limits that are fair for everyone respec once every 4,5 or 6 months even a year. Everyone is on the same level and it is free.
There are many players that disagree about giving CCP money in the current form there have been many threads of people saying they will not spend anymore money on dust because of the recent legion announcement which said everything that we planned dust to be will be moved to another game. Again it is CCP's job in order to price these things out if they need to earn money they can freely consult you about it. But it should be your job to do what you can to lower the cost or make it free as majority of the community would prefer free over paying. It's not your job to generate revenue for CCP it's your job to help the community and make it easier on them.
Let me tell prefanfest i thought respecs were the dumbest idea on this forum right after returning BPO's, and currently i am looking forward to Legion. I'm not anti-CCP i don't hate them and i love dust and EVE. But that does not change the fact that CPM should be not be looking for ways to make money for CCP that's not why you were elect you were elected to help the general player base.
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Soraya Xel
Abandoned Privilege
Top Men.
4130
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Posted - 2014.10.12 01:20:00 -
[29] - Quote
Viktor, speaking personally, if a respec did not cost Aurum, I would not support it existing in the game. Because I really do not believe any respecs should be given. Ever. The only allowance I make is that if someone wants it that badly, they should be able to help pay to keep the game running to get it.
In a free to play environment, I think industry-wide it's somewhere around 2% of players* actually buy stuff in a free to play game. So when you consider what's available for AUR, it shouldn't be necessary to progress in the game. Respecs meet that. They are not necessary. In my opinion, you shouldn't even get them. But if you're willing to be part of the 2% paying** for the other 98% to play... I can live with that.
* Found a source: http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2014-04-09-only-2-2-percent-of-free-to-play-users-ever-pay-report
** Have no idea what CCP's over/under on the industry standard is. Seriously, don't read into this. o_o
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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Duke Noobiam
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
186
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Posted - 2014.10.12 04:13:00 -
[30] - Quote
Viktor Hadah Jr wrote:CPM in don't understand why you are pitching ideas that require the respec to cost money. If players were given the option between paying for a respec and receiving one for free they would choice free.
You are here to represent the players not make money for CCP last i checked. What is stopping you from trying to achieve free respecs?
I'm a player, I'm willing to spend money on DUST as I play it almost every day.
The CPMs should represent me as much as they represent the freeloaders.
As mentioned, respects are not a necessary elements in the game which makes them a great candidate for an Aurum bought item.
How do you kill that which has no life?
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