hurr durr pythons will still go up in flames vs a incubus. The buff means you can take one and a half small rail hits more before blowing up.

At first I really couldn't understand the reasoning behind it but after talking to some friends I realized it may actually be warranted.
We all know about the swarm buff and 'Nerf' and a lot of swarmers have pointed this out in relation to the python buff. Proto swarms are gonna have their damage reduces by some thing like 20hp, not all that bad.

The reason I'm thinking it won't be as bad as everyone thinks is because damage mods are getting a buff.

That more than compensates for the 20hp proto swarms are loosing and should keep the dropship forge gun engagement the same. Since std and adv swarms are getting buffed on top of this the average merc will be able to make a much more powerful av fit. I might even make a std swarm suit.....nah I'm having to much fun with my forge

I haven't done the math, too tired and don't know the numbers off hand. Since charlie is dropping tomorrow I suppose we will just wait and see how it works out. But I'm thinking the sky may not fall just quite yet.

Nice to hear you're not being gagged or censored much.

I wouldn't mind it so much if proto swarms with triple damage mods were actually a threat to a python.

From my field experience, even when firing at point blank, the pilot still has a VERY high chance to escape the third swarm.

Most fitted pythons now days require 5~ swarms.
So basically, unkillable.

And yet the python pilot can do a "bombing run" and instantly blap the AV person.

And yet the python pilot can do a "bombing run" and instantly blap the AV person.

Swarms were changed, damage mods were changed. Personally, I felt that the Python buff would make assessing the other changes harder. On paper the python does need a buff. Its ability to Alpha-withstand a forge is very low compared to the incubus, buts its swarm resistance is better.

A 500hp Python buff MAY have seen balanced forge alpha but too much swarm resistance. A buff is still very much on the agenda though. We just need to make sure the balance is done well. I know this is frustrating for pilots. The more cautious approach means our ISK getting lost. But we must avoid making any changes until we are sure of the result. Super OP pythons would ruin games for many at the benefit of the few.

I spoke with many pilots. Including the OP. Top rated (according to forum lists and to sources in high performance groups) pilots were against the change, fearing it was OP. However those specing into the ADS as new pilots, whose skills leave them with less defense were for it. This leaves a dilemma. Balance the lower tier with the buff but OP the top tier. More thought and consideration is needed to address this.

it is frustrating for pilots I know. Militia swarms got a decent buff, and they are free to all. Too many things have changed (minmandos in particular) for us to act to hastily. I am doing a comprehensive look at AV again after charlie. None of my assessment will be NDA. So I will share everything I think about it on my youtube and the new external CPM hub.

Pilots most times are fighting invisible people, AV is not. We cannot just keep pretending this does not effect the AV - vehicle interaction and balance.

We have to account for this, from both sides. This applies to any bombing run, AV or not. most times pilots have no idea there are targets to shoot. Infantry just does not render.

Three Questions, Your Honor:

1. At approximately what distance do infantry render?
2. At approximately what distance do infantry render once painted by an Active Scanner?
3. Do nanohive "bubbles" render at longer distances (i.e. homing beacons)?

There needs to be more clear av options. Its very hard to balance the existing av against dropships when both viable options are bonused against armor. We have no clear shield cracker AV versus dropships. This is why caldari dropships are preferred.

The first person to seriouspost the plasma cannon will be mocked without mercy.

I'd just like to say, from my stand point as a python pilot and a forge gunner, the forge gun is more effective against pythons. I understand it gets bonus damage to armor with prof, but it is still more effective against pythons.

The reason I say this is because of the way each dropship regenerates health. A pythons shields will be delayed before coming back giving a 3 or 4 second window to land another shot and open another window with an AFG you can down a python in 3 shots. Incubi on the other hand passively regenerate their armor even under constant fire.

I have shot down quite a few pythons, some with my 9k, some with my DAU and some with my ishi. I have yet to shoot down and incubus on my own without help from another forge gun, I am currently on prof 2.

I respectfully would have to disagree, though for more abstract reasons. I find the massive engine on the two sides of the incubus far easier to target and with an ishokune assault forge you can two shot an incubus if it doesn't get any of its defenses off. The Python however has much smaller engines and is also thinner in any case which matters a lot when the pilots are twirling rising or falling in the sky to avoid shots. Not too mention the python also can near instant repair its shields unlike the incubus armor when the regen does kick in. I actually have a much easier time shooting down gallente dropships then caldari because of the shield regen, stronger hardeners, and Forge armor affinity. And the slightly thinner frame doesn't hurt.

When it comes to forge vs. dropship. No dropship will survive a strong forge fit if the forge can hit the target especially in its weakpoints. This is much harder to do with Caldari dropships then Gallente.

Evasion is the primary defense of dropships against av and Caldari dropships are harder to land hits on. Not too mention I'm pretty sure like the other Caldari vs. Gallente vehicles the Caldari Accelerate faster.

In essence, it's like shield vs. armor on infantry. If shielded variants have the same e/hp as armor variants there isn't much point in armor variants as greater mobility is better than lesser mobility. If the python gets buffed too much shield wise, there wont be much of a point in the incubus.

Anything in the game is Public domain, and I can comment freely on it. But, for EXAMPLE... lets imagine, and this is a fictional example, that Jets and jetpacks were coming in delta . I couldn't comment in an AV assessment that swarms were readjusted like this because of the new vehicles in delta. But I can look at what we have, what I think works what does not and put that out there.

We don't want me taking those opinions to CCP without putting them out for review and comment first. That way despotism lies.

I don't know how many people fly Pythons in PC, so I can tell you right now that it virtually unusable.

Even the best fit Pythons get 2-3 shot by forgers, and in the PC environment that's far common. Compare that to what I think a the best fit Incubus (950 shield, 4200 armor, 100shield/sec 90 armor/sec) which can tank 4 shots and still be about as agile as a Python (seriously, wtf is with that Armor composition skill?). That's a 5.2k, 200hp/sec regen ADS which can still be brought down regularly.

Now compare: With the 500-600hp boost, the best fit imo will be Ehn heavy ex, complex AB, complex hardener. This gives 3000-3100 shield base (I discount armor in ehp because it isn't significant or regenerates) and 5000-5100 hardened (remember for only 30sec and with a 45sec cooldown). This will allow a Python to burst tank when engaging enemies (as shields are supposed to do) while will keeping a reasonable passive tank if caught unaware.

This buff is necessary to balance Pythons with the Incubus.

Swarms were changed, damage mods were changed. Personally, I felt that the Python buff would make assessing the other changes harder. On paper the python does need a buff. Its ability to Alpha-withstand a forge is very low compared to the incubus, buts its swarm resistance is better.

A 500hp Python buff MAY have seen balanced forge alpha but too much swarm resistance. A buff is still very much on the agenda though. We just need to make sure the balance is done well. I know this is frustrating for pilots. The more cautious approach means our ISK getting lost. But we must avoid making any changes until we are sure of the result. Super OP pythons would ruin games for many at the benefit of the few.

I spoke with many pilots. Including the OP. Top rated (according to forum lists and to sources in high performance groups) pilots were against the change, fearing it was OP. However those specing into the ADS as new pilots, whose skills leave them with less defense were for it. This leaves a dilemma. Balance the lower tier with the buff but OP the top tier. More thought and consideration is needed to address this.

it is frustrating for pilots I know. Militia swarms got a decent buff, and they are free to all. Too many things have changed (minmandos in particular) for us to act to hastily. I am doing a comprehensive look at AV again after charlie. None of my assessment will be NDA. So I will share everything I think about it on my youtube and the new external CPM hub.