DUST Search - CPM input request: Logistics & Support.

el OPERATOR wrote:

Basmurick wrote:

This may be a disastrous idea but I wouldn't even be opposed to some sort of combat penalty on the suit so it could have the fitting and equip/module bonuses it needs without enabling the 'slayer' build to overlap assaults. Even something like a penalty to light weapon fitting to go along with the equipment bonus might ensure that we could fit proto modules and equipment with great bonuses but suffer on the level of a cloak to try and fit a weapon beyond adv.

IMO Force logi suits to be true LogiBro, the SP investment is already there. Other suits have equip utility slots without being a dedicated support role for those who just want the odd toy.

We are actually already combat penalized. Unlike every other combat suit we receive no weapon performance or fitting bonuses. That, coupled with our embarrassingly low base stat values, makes us already very direct combat ineffective versus the other combat classes. Further penalizing our already sparse self-defense abilities would be a very bad idea IMO.

EDIT: reread the OP. I agree, it would absolutely be disastrous.


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Basmurick The Ra-lin Corporation 0	Posted - 2014.09.24 09:29:00 - [1] - Quote I originally went Amarr in the beta because I'm a bit of an Amarr fan in Eve and was a LogiBro Aspirant from the early days as I am in most games where that's an option. My thinking at the time was that being the tankiest and slowest of the Logi with the sidearm and regen at the time, that the Amarr would be great for being on the front lines with a relatively embedded squad on an objective that was actively taking damage. I stuck with the suit after the changes but feel a bit torn over my role now. I feel like it's a waste to not fit an uplink with my significant maxed bonuses for it, but it really isn't the playstyle I thought this suit would end up with. I tend to carry a rep tool and nanohive otherwise, but I really wish the uplink could be an injector instead. Why is the slowest suit the one with the bonus for deploying uplinks around the map? Why is the fastest suit the one with a bonus for staying in cover and repping their squad from the furthest away with a range bonus? I probably am missing something important here, but I just thought it was curious how lore seemed to win out over game design when coming up with the specializations for each of the racial suits. I don't see any reason why each suit has the bonus that it has other than it is that race's tech behind the art design for each piece of equipment. I realize it would be a nightmare to change the bonuses around now without a respec or to remodel the art and lore for the equipment, but I just don't see it coming together in an obvious way even just among the logi even before comparing them to other mediums or lights doing their job. The Amarr scout with the bonus to stamina and regen seems like it would be great for hauling butt across the map right in the beginning and dropping uplinks. I just wish logi had an equally clear purpose for their racial bonuses. I don't like that I have to sprint around as a scout to splatter the map and then switch to a logi to give them the bonus any more than I like that I can have 7+ uplinks out as long as they're all different variants, but right now that's just how the game is played (read:workaround for the mechanics we should have). As in Eve, if player's creative playstyles could be accommodated for and built into the game as intended mechanics, it's probably almost always the best solution. Too bad I have no idea how to do that. As a side note, running my ADV suit with all ADV gear and a buffer tank with some support weapon such as swarms or MD I do find myself maxed on PG with CPU to spare. I have been just 'working with it' by running with no grenade as I feel that is the piece of equipment that takes the least away from me 'doing my job'.
Basmurick The Ra-lin Corporation 4	Posted - 2014.09.24 22:30:00 - [2] - Quote This may be a disastrous idea but I wouldn't even be opposed to some sort of combat penalty on the suit so it could have the fitting and equip/module bonuses it needs without enabling the 'slayer' build to overlap assaults. Even something like a penalty to light weapon fitting to go along with the equipment bonus might ensure that we could fit proto modules and equipment with great bonuses but suffer on the level of a cloak to try and fit a weapon beyond adv. IMO Force logi suits to be true LogiBro, the SP investment is already there. Other suits have equip utility slots without being a dedicated support role for those who just want the odd toy.
Basmurick The Ra-lin Corporation 4	Posted - 2014.09.24 23:45:00 - [3] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: Basmurick wrote: This may be a disastrous idea but I wouldn't even be opposed to some sort of combat penalty on the suit so it could have the fitting and equip/module bonuses it needs without enabling the 'slayer' build to overlap assaults. Even something like a penalty to light weapon fitting to go along with the equipment bonus might ensure that we could fit proto modules and equipment with great bonuses but suffer on the level of a cloak to try and fit a weapon beyond adv. IMO Force logi suits to be true LogiBro, the SP investment is already there. Other suits have equip utility slots without being a dedicated support role for those who just want the odd toy. We are actually already combat penalized. Unlike every other combat suit we receive no weapon performance or fitting bonuses. That, coupled with our embarrassingly low base stat values, makes us already very direct combat ineffective versus the other combat classes. Further penalizing our already sparse self-defense abilities would be a very bad idea IMO. EDIT: reread the OP. I agree, it would absolutely be disastrous. There seems to be some general grumbling about our base stat values and I'll never turn down more survivability, but I think the issue is how to buff logi where they need it in terms of fitting ability and tank without making a tanked damage mod'd logi a better option than the assault. If we're going to get any kind of 'improvement' beyond more equipment tweaks I can imagine them needing to gimp possible damage projection to keep assault viable in the same way we can't become more versatile commandos. I completely agree that our self-defense could use some work in terms of survivability if perhaps not in offensive power. I don't really experience that much myself as I'm Amarr with a maxed pistol that has served me quite well, but I can imagine life without it. There's probably a good reason I see maybe one or two other yellow suits a day across all my games.
Basmurick The Ra-lin Corporation 4	Posted - 2014.09.25 02:26:00 - [4] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: The easy way to make a "combat" penalty is to simply NOT improve the absolute fitting stats of each suit (with the exception of the Amarr PG and Caldari CPU, as they are not proportionately allocated; an adjustment does need to be made there). Instead, keep the PG/CPU the same and just double the bonus to fitting equipment. That way you are enabled to use better quality equipment, or, if you already do, additional CPU/PG will be freed up to "un-gimp" the suit. At the same time, you avoid the issues of the past where the suit was too flexible and could be fitted quite easily for offense. How much need do you feel there is for a buff to base stats, movement speed, or the return of the native regen? The fitting bonus as you describe it makes perfect sense and I think most people are in favor of the PG/CPU adjustment, I suppose I'm just concerned about the suit becoming too appealing if changes beyond that are made (as nice as they'd be).
Basmurick The Ra-lin Corporation 4	Posted - 2014.09.25 05:05:00 - [5] - Quote Personally (and I haven't seen this anywhere else yet) I'd like to be able to turn slightly faster. Mind you, when someone comes up behind me and I start getting shot in the back, I agree that I deserve to die before I can turn around and defend myself as that's the importance of situational awareness and is the playstyle of some builds. That being said, blueberries sometimes don't move in a cohesive direction (imagine that) and I'll end up getting caught alone as I try to catch up to wherever the new group of them happens to be forming up, and maybe this is worse because I'm Amarr as I don't know if their slower speed translates to slower turning, but sometimes I'll turn a corner and see something which causes me to (HMG, Tank, red sh*tstorm etc) and I feel like a truck that has to do a 3-point turn to start sprinting back the direction I came as the rounds start to hit the walls around me to cries of "AMG SHOOT THE YELLOW". Generally I try to disengage rather than hold my own with my trusty pistol and I often feel that being able to change directions even only slightly faster would be a large Quality of Life improvement for me, but again that might just be my suit/playstyle and not a good general suggestion.