DUST Search - Another HMG nerf thread

XxWarlordxX97 wrote:

RYN0CER0S wrote:

In the past I've suggested a few reasonable nerfs for the Heavy/HMG combo, including:
Remove dual stream Rep Tools
Reduce Dispersion
Reduce Turn Speed
Reduce (slightly) Range

Not all of them to be applied concurrently.

But, since you people are insistant on a more aggressive nerf, I propose this:
Remove Headshot Bonus from the HMG

When I started using Heavies, the HMG was "laser focused" and yet I rarely got Headshot Kills.
Immediately after the Dispersion fix I started getting Headshot Kills 10-15 times per match.
I appreciate a good skill Kill as much as the next guy, but the Dispersion allows the Headshot Bonus to be applied up to ~48 times per second.
Admittedly, that is bad. I don't have the maths on it at the moment, but I'm sure one of you lovely people wouldn't mind posting the hard data...

We (those who suffered through the bad HMG days) have been trained to aim it well. I put the center most point of the reticle on a target and they're instantly dead now. I get rewarded for skill Kills when I'm just spraying into 3-10 clustered mercs.
Granted, I spray high to achieve this because it is effective, but if a nerf is to be applied, this should be the starting point.

Nerf the shotgun too then

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RYN0CER0S Rise Of Old Dudes 786	Posted - 2014.08.02 21:46:00 - [1] - Quote In the past I've suggested a few reasonable nerfs for the Heavy/HMG combo, including: Remove dual stream Rep Tools Reduce Dispersion Reduce Turn Speed Reduce (slightly) Range Not all of them to be applied concurrently. But, since you people are insistant on a more aggressive nerf, I propose this: Remove Headshot Bonus from the HMG When I started using Heavies, the HMG was "laser focused" and yet I rarely got Headshot Kills. Immediately after the Dispersion fix I started getting Headshot Kills 10-15 times per match. I appreciate a good skill Kill as much as the next guy, but the Dispersion allows the Headshot Bonus to be applied up to ~48 times per second. Admittedly, that is bad. I don't have the maths on it at the moment, but I'm sure one of you lovely people wouldn't mind posting the hard data... We (those who suffered through the bad HMG days) have been trained to aim it well. I put the center most point of the reticle on a target and they're instantly dead now. I get rewarded for skill Kills when I'm just spraying into 3-10 clustered mercs. Granted, I spray high to achieve this because it is effective, but if a nerf is to be applied, this should be the starting point. Who farted?
Reign Omega BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance 715	Posted - 2014.08.02 21:51:00 - [2] - Quote The headshot bonus is kind of crazy if you think about it, on smaller frames if you aim for the chest the reticule is halfway on the head anyways....thats an absurd damage multiplier. A display of sucking that rivals the highest amount of sucking that a player has displayed in the history of sucking.-JR
RYN0CER0S Rise Of Old Dudes 787	Posted - 2014.08.02 21:54:00 - [3] - Quote Reign Omega wrote: The headshot bonus is kind of crazy if you think about it, on smaller frames if you aim for the chest the reticule is halfway on the head anyways....thats an absurd damage multiplier. Exactly. Who farted?
Izlare Lenix Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 836	Posted - 2014.08.02 22:04:00 - [4] - Quote Honestly the HMG kills scouts and med frames so fast the damage bonus doesn't even matter. My PC cal scout has less than 400 hp and a hmg can kill me in about .5 seconds, which is already faster than i can react most times, especially with real laggy PC matches. The only time the hmg head shot bonus really matters is against other heavies. So I say keep it, let those fat bastards kill each other faster. Gun control is not about guns...it's about control. The only way to ensure freedom is by having the means to defend it.
XxWarlordxX97 BurgezzE.T.F 4345	Posted - 2014.08.02 22:13:00 - [5] - Quote RYN0CER0S wrote: In the past I've suggested a few reasonable nerfs for the Heavy/HMG combo, including: Remove dual stream Rep Tools Reduce Dispersion Reduce Turn Speed Reduce (slightly) Range Not all of them to be applied concurrently. But, since you people are insistant on a more aggressive nerf, I propose this: Remove Headshot Bonus from the HMG When I started using Heavies, the HMG was "laser focused" and yet I rarely got Headshot Kills. Immediately after the Dispersion fix I started getting Headshot Kills 10-15 times per match. I appreciate a good skill Kill as much as the next guy, but the Dispersion allows the Headshot Bonus to be applied up to ~48 times per second. Admittedly, that is bad. I don't have the maths on it at the moment, but I'm sure one of you lovely people wouldn't mind posting the hard data... We (those who suffered through the bad HMG days) have been trained to aim it well. I put the center most point of the reticle on a target and they're instantly dead now. I get rewarded for skill Kills when I'm just spraying into 3-10 clustered mercs. Granted, I spray high to achieve this because it is effective, but if a nerf is to be applied, this should be the starting point. Nerf the shotgun too then I don't rage,I get even
RYN0CER0S Rise Of Old Dudes 788	Posted - 2014.08.02 22:14:00 - [6] - Quote Izlare Lenix wrote: Honestly the HMG kills scouts and med frames so fast the damage bonus doesn't even matter. My PC cal scout has less than 400 hp and a hmg can kill me in about .5 seconds, which is already faster than i can react most times, especially with real laggy PC matches. The only time the hmg head shot bonus really matters is against other heavies. So I say keep it, let those fat bastards kill each other faster. That bonus is a bigger problem for suits with lower HP pools, smart guy. Who farted?
Zindorak 1.U.P 224	Posted - 2014.08.02 22:26:00 - [7] - Quote RYN0CER0S wrote: In the past I've suggested a few reasonable nerfs for the Heavy/HMG combo, including: Remove dual stream Rep Tools Reduce Dispersion Reduce Turn Speed Reduce (slightly) Range Not all of them to be applied concurrently. But, since you people are insistant on a more aggressive nerf, I propose this: Remove Headshot Bonus from the HMG When I started using Heavies, the HMG was "laser focused" and yet I rarely got Headshot Kills. Immediately after the Dispersion fix I started getting Headshot Kills 10-15 times per match. I appreciate a good skill Kill as much as the next guy, but the Dispersion allows the Headshot Bonus to be applied up to ~48 times per second. Admittedly, that is bad. I don't have the maths on it at the moment, but I'm sure one of you lovely people wouldn't mind posting the hard data... We (those who suffered through the bad HMG days) have been trained to aim it well. I put the center most point of the reticle on a target and they're instantly dead now. I get rewarded for skill Kills when I'm just spraying into 3-10 clustered mercs. Granted, I spray high to achieve this because it is effective, but if a nerf is to be applied, this should be the starting point. If we get a nerf to Rail Rifles, you got a deal Master of the Scrambler Pistol. Carthum Assault ScP <3
Cody Sietz SVER True Blood Dark Taboo 3770	Posted - 2014.08.02 22:32:00 - [8] - Quote XxWarlordxX97 wrote: RYN0CER0S wrote: In the past I've suggested a few reasonable nerfs for the Heavy/HMG combo, including: Remove dual stream Rep Tools Reduce Dispersion Reduce Turn Speed Reduce (slightly) Range Not all of them to be applied concurrently. But, since you people are insistant on a more aggressive nerf, I propose this: Remove Headshot Bonus from the HMG When I started using Heavies, the HMG was "laser focused" and yet I rarely got Headshot Kills. Immediately after the Dispersion fix I started getting Headshot Kills 10-15 times per match. I appreciate a good skill Kill as much as the next guy, but the Dispersion allows the Headshot Bonus to be applied up to ~48 times per second. Admittedly, that is bad. I don't have the maths on it at the moment, but I'm sure one of you lovely people wouldn't mind posting the hard data... We (those who suffered through the bad HMG days) have been trained to aim it well. I put the center most point of the reticle on a target and they're instantly dead now. I get rewarded for skill Kills when I'm just spraying into 3-10 clustered mercs. Granted, I spray high to achieve this because it is effective, but if a nerf is to be applied, this should be the starting point. Nerf the shotgun too then Ok, give the shotgun a 30 meter optimal and 400 rounds. "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
RYN0CER0S Rise Of Old Dudes 789	Posted - 2014.08.02 22:57:00 - [9] - Quote XxWarlordxX97 wrote: Nerf the shotgun too then Shotgun dispersion isn't nearly that of the HMG. Aiming for the upper chest from >5m away doesn't equate to a (or several) Headshot Bonus(es). Who farted?
I-Shayz-I I----------I 4445	Posted - 2014.08.02 22:57:00 - [10] - Quote Heat increase in Charlie...should be enough to separate the pros from the HMG spamming noobs. Also makes the burst even more skill based, which I like. 7162 wp with a Repair Tool! List of Legion Feedback Threads!

KING CHECKMATE Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 5627	Posted - 2014.08.02 23:07:00 - [11] - Quote i dont think the HMG needs any nerf at all considering its range limitations and Suit specific requirements. The best Damage mod is a HEADSHOT....
RYN0CER0S Rise Of Old Dudes 790	Posted - 2014.08.02 23:19:00 - [12] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: i dont think the HMG needs any nerf at all considering its range limitations and Suit specific requirements. I really don't either, but they're going to do it anyways before we see how the Medium buff works out for overall balance. May as well make it something sensible, not a 50% range reduction or something just as stupid. Who farted?
Izlare Lenix Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 836	Posted - 2014.08.02 23:34:00 - [13] - Quote RYN0CER0S wrote: Izlare Lenix wrote: Honestly the HMG kills scouts and med frames so fast the damage bonus doesn't even matter. My PC cal scout has less than 400 hp and a hmg can kill me in about .5 seconds, which is already faster than i can react most times, especially with real laggy PC matches. The only time the hmg head shot bonus really matters is against other heavies. So I say keep it, let those fat bastards kill each other faster. That bonus is a bigger problem for suits with lower HP pools, smart guy. You missed my point smart guy. The hmg already kills scouts so damn fast killing them any faster with a headshot bonus makes virtually no difference. The headshot bonus is not the issue. The huge clip, best damage profile and instant spray of OP dps out to 40+ meters is the issue. I have said plenty of times before hmgs should have a spool up time, longer than the rail rifle. Combined with the upcoming overheat changes that will help balance the hmg better without touching its damage or range. Gun control is not about guns...it's about control. The only way to ensure freedom is by having the means to defend it.
RYN0CER0S Rise Of Old Dudes 791	Posted - 2014.08.02 23:52:00 - [14] - Quote Izlare Lenix wrote: RYN0CER0S wrote: te=Izlare Lenix]Honestly the HMG kills scouts and med frames so fast the damage bonus doesn't even matter. My PC cal scout has less than 400 hp and a hmg can kill me in about .5 seconds, which is already faster than i can react most times, especially with real laggy PC matches. The only time the hmg head shot bonus really matters is against other heavies. So I say keep it, let those fat bastards kill each other faster. That bonus is a bigger problem for suits with lower HP pools, smart guy. You missed my point smart guy. The hmg already kills scouts so damn fast killing them any faster with a headshot bonus makes virtually no difference. The headshot bonus is not the issue. The huge clip, best damage profile and instant spray of OP dps out to 40+ meters is the issue. I have said plenty of times before hmgs should have a spool up time, longer than the rail rifle. Combined with the upcoming overheat changes that will help balance the hmg better without touching its damage or range. [/quote] I knew I smelled a Scout... Have you even used a HMG? I use Scouts and I can tell you that you are doing it all wrong. Big blip on the TacNet means that you need to move your ass, not stand there. Your suit is a Recon/Intel based fitting and using as anything other than that is your misjudgment. Are we supposed to balance everything around that type of mentality? I'm sorry that you misread something that said that every scrub could use a Light frame as an Assault. But, that's not my problem. You came within 80m of a HMG (or anybody with a gun and good aim) and you got melted. It happens. Ask any Veteran Scout, as they have no problem staying alive, killing, and profiting. Who farted?
Lanius Pulvis SVER True Blood Dark Taboo 333	Posted - 2014.08.03 00:38:00 - [15] - Quote Lower the turn speed as well and it makes sense. Not new, just new to you.
RYN0CER0S Rise Of Old Dudes 793	Posted - 2014.08.03 00:41:00 - [16] - Quote Lanius Pulvis wrote: Lower the turn speed as well and it makes sense. One nerf at a time. Who farted?
Apocalyptic Destroyer RestlessSpirits 44	Posted - 2014.08.03 03:19:00 - [17] - Quote Nerf the RR before the HMG. ~R1P
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries 3277	Posted - 2014.08.03 03:42:00 - [18] - Quote Best counter to HMG is to spec into it > Check RND out here
Thurak1 Psygod9 873	Posted - 2014.08.03 06:24:00 - [19] - Quote Lanius Pulvis wrote: Lower the turn speed as well and it makes sense. No No No! This happened to heavies once already and it was just absolutely terrible. A heavy could not keep anyone in their sights to kill them at all. Being a heavy meant simply being a walking target that would die the moment the firefight started. I remember those horrid months NO NO NO!
Thurak1 Psygod9 873	Posted - 2014.08.03 06:26:00 - [20] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Best counter to HMG is to spec into it Or use something with a range past 50 meters. That requires thinking though and honestly after playing a couple days ago the people playing the game are either high drunk or both. People dont think at all now in game. People were actually charging me with my hmg... wtf?

Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries 3282	Posted - 2014.08.03 06:56:00 - [21] - Quote Thurak1 wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Best counter to HMG is to spec into it Or use something with a range past 50 meters. That requires thinking though and honestly after playing a couple days ago the people playing the game are either high drunk or both. People dont think at all now in game. People were actually charging me with my hmg... wtf? Too bad there isn't a skill that allows you to cap an objective past 50m. > Check RND out here
BIGRED 4UALL Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 8	Posted - 2014.08.03 08:25:00 - [22] - Quote Nerf the HMG. WHAT! Are you kidding me. If you look at it from a gamers point of view. What is a scout. A light armoured very mobile unit. An HMG is a fat sloth like gonna rip you down if you get in my way type of unit. And the logis and assaults are medium speed frontline players. What is with you guys mann. They need to balance out the weapons. Not the suits. I am sorry your paper thin scout gets killed by a mass of bullets coming at it. But hey that is what a scout penalty is. Low hit points. if you dont wanna be killed as quick, go with more hitpoints. CCP has to balance weapons out a bit more. The rail and combat are far superior to the assault rifle. Lets focus on the major things rather then the minor things. Like LAG. The mother F^CKER of all video games. Like TEAM DEPLOY. Things that actually matter for a great game experience. I for one would like to see the big things change rather then the small distractions CCP is giving us. And guys these are the small things, they are hanging the piece of meat over our heads and watching us fight over it thinking it will drop. Lets get real here and start focusing on the important things.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 16074	Posted - 2014.08.03 08:32:00 - [23] - Quote That sorta disadvantages the Burst's HMGs Role don'tcha you think? CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Minmatar Sentinel =// Unlocked
RYN0CER0S Rise Of Old Dudes 808	Posted - 2014.08.03 08:40:00 - [24] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: That sorta disadvantages the Burst's HMGs Role don'tcha you think? Not so much because the base DPS is still hefty enough to carry it. The Burst would still be effective against other Heavies, as it is now. I can see that my numbers nerds are sleeping on the job. I'll have to put something together to prove my point. Who farted?
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 1744	Posted - 2014.08.03 11:00:00 - [25] - Quote RYN0CER0S wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: That sorta disadvantages the Burst's HMGs Role don'tcha you think? Not so much because the base DPS is still hefty enough to carry it. The Burst would still be effective against other Heavies, as it is now. I can see that my numbers nerds are sleeping on the job. I'll have to put something together to prove my point. since when should any weapon be only useful against heavies? I can honestly get similar effect to the HMG by putting a prototype Shotgun on a fatsuit and damage modding it. 2 seconds to kill anyone with an HMG.... 2 shots tops with the proto shotty which takes... two seconds. Coincidence? The only difference is if I mount the shotgun people will btch about fats running light weapons and OHKing everyone rather than with a (Clearly inferior to everything) HMG that we have had in the past and everyone (Except heavies) was happy with because it was utterly fcking useless. I ran shotgun fatty during those dark times for a reason.
pegasis prime Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 1838	Posted - 2014.08.03 12:21:00 - [26] - Quote Sigh ....Iv read do many nerf and buff threads concerning the hmg since welll before even chrome to the present date. The hmg in my opinion should be left as is , as I believe it is working as intended I.e. A cqc monster . Most people I have seen complaining about the hmg have been using oblivion bad tactics when facing down a heavy strapped with a hmg bad tactic like rushing head on at them i mean why would you think it's a good idea to go toe to toe with a hmg heavy in cqc face on at that you know... try to luer them into the open and strike a range . Maby even flank them or get higher ground with good cover or even use team work and focus your squads fire ... just some examples of ho not to and how to deal with heavys. Proud Gunlogi pilot and forge gunner since August 2012. I fought and bled for the State on Caldari prime.
XxWarlordxX97 BurgezzE.T.F 4349	Posted - 2014.08.04 03:02:00 - [27] - Quote RYN0CER0S wrote: XxWarlordxX97 wrote: Nerf the shotgun too then Shotgun dispersion isn't nearly that of the HMG. Aiming for the upper chest from >5m away doesn't equate to a (or several) Headshot Bonus(es). How about you do some research before you come on here Thank you I don't rage,I get even
XxWarlordxX97 BurgezzE.T.F 4349	Posted - 2014.08.04 03:05:00 - [28] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Best counter to HMG is to spec into it Shotgun, I'm going around right now shooting proto heavies with it +Nova knives I don't rage,I get even
Rowdy Railgunner Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 447	Posted - 2014.08.04 03:12:00 - [29] - Quote Nerf HMG? You are dumb. Look at what we have here. DUST is basically TF2. Heavies need logis to even be effective. Scouts are OP and med frames are not even really used. What we need to nerf is people. Stop all these dummies from making QQ threads about that last weapon that killed them.
RYN0CER0S Rise Of Old Dudes 846	Posted - 2014.08.04 07:12:00 - [30] - Quote Rowdy Railgunner wrote: Nerf HMG? You are dumb. Look at what we have here. DUST is basically TF2. Heavies need logis to even be effective. Scouts are OP and med frames are not even really used. What we need to nerf is people. Stop all these dummies from making QQ threads about that last weapon that killed them. I think it's fine. I use them all day. The problem is that they're going to nerf it because of the usual game of 'Duck, Duck, Nerf the Goose'. I just wanted to put out some different ideas other than the usual small-minded **** that these morons post, repeatedly. Thanks for the input though. +1 Who farted?



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