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Sticky:Hotfix Charlie - HMG Heat and Burst HMG Changes

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 9 post(s)

CCP Logibro C C P C C P Alliance 8455	Posted - 2014.07.17 12:36:00 - [1] - Quote Hey guys So with Hotfix Charlie I've been taking a look at HMG Heat, primarily to make heat management much more important for HMG users. Overall, all HMGs now overheat faster, with a 2 heat/sec increase to the Base standard HMG. Burst HMGs have received a much more extensive overhaul, with radical increases to their fire rate and reduction in burst delay, as well as a decrease in the amount of damage per round. This results in a DPS increase, but at the expense of overheating even quicker than before. They should now properly function as a front loaded weapon where you either have to end the fight quickly, or lose out to an opponent in a sustained fight. I am concerned that it might be a little too powerful, so I would especially like to get your feedback on this change. Assault HMGs have received no changes beyond the heat adjustment. Additionally, range progression has been removed from all HMGs, and they now all have an optimal of 31.5m with an effective range of 52.5m (matching the advanced HMG). Assault variants still continue to have longer range than Base and Burst HMGs. All the details are in this spreadsheet. As always, changes are not final, and I would love to hear your feedback. CCP Logibro // Patron Saint of Logistics // Distributor of Nanites (a¦á_a¦á)

FraggerMike G.R.A.V.E INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS 243	Posted - 2014.07.17 12:38:00 - [2] - Quote My little assault suit likes this :) Director of G.R.A.V.E Battles on Youtube channel: G.R.A.V.E
The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect 3588	Posted - 2014.07.17 13:04:00 - [3] - Quote Not sure about the changes. I use the basic HMG alot of times and i barely have any issues with overheating on that 1 in firefights. Im sure i will get my head around it but i woulda liked more kick on it to compensate for the firepower.
ResistanceGTA D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1409	Posted - 2014.07.17 13:04:00 - [4] - Quote I can't believe these are final changes that we can have no input on... How rude of you Rattati... I kid of course. I'll have my Heavy read over it and discuss with him before I give any actual feedback. From my not Heavy eyes, I like it. If you find an issue and I stumble upon your thread, I will do my darnedest to get the issue known. Also, Raptors...

CCP Logibro C C P C C P Alliance 8466	Posted - 2014.07.17 13:25:00 - [5] - Quote ResistanceGTA wrote: I can't believe these are final changes that we can have no input on... How rude of you Rattati... I kid of course. I'll have my Heavy read over it and discuss with him before I give any actual feedback. From my not Heavy eyes, I like it. Also, my name isn't Rattati. CCP Logibro // Patron Saint of Logistics // Distributor of Nanites (a¦á_a¦á)

Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6332	Posted - 2014.07.17 13:28:00 - [6] - Quote S'decent I guess. Just curious as to what impact it will have on the proliferation of heavies running around, when combined with fitting changes. Hopefully the amount of Sentinels will die down as there's just too damn many of them right now, imo. CCP Logibro wrote: ResistanceGTA wrote: I can't believe these are final changes that we can have no input on... How rude of you Rattati... I kid of course. I'll have my Heavy read over it and discuss with him before I give any actual feedback. From my not Heavy eyes, I like it. Also, my name isn't Rattati. WHO IS THIS IMPOSTER? Useful Links Aeon Amadi for CPM1
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 3009	Posted - 2014.07.17 13:42:00 - [7] - Quote Future Expectations Community: Heavies are too numerous and HMGs too effective; ambush has degraded to "follow the heavy" Heavies: [In their very best pilot voice] Nuh uh. Everything is fine. QQ, GOML, get gud, teamwork, etc Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6334	Posted - 2014.07.17 13:54:00 - [8] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Future Expectations Community: Heavies are too numerous and HMGs too effective; ambush has degraded to "follow the heavy" Heavies [in their very best pilot voice]: Nuh uh; everything is fine. QQ, GOML, get gud, teamwork, etc I remember a while back someone made the argument that Heavies should be unparalleled and have no counter at Point Defense. We joked that, "Well, in that case, why run anything other than Heavies?" Manifest. Destiny. Useful Links Aeon Amadi for CPM1
SAIRAX SIS Nyain San General Tso's Alliance 112	Posted - 2014.07.17 14:10:00 - [9] - Quote HMG & B-HMG are Infight-Short Range King. Is not to be win rifle in the short-medium range. It's supposed to be a turn of A-HMG. yoroshiku ne !pÇÇpÇÇCute Cat NyaoooonpÇÇGÖ¬
Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 6095	Posted - 2014.07.17 15:42:00 - [10] - Quote I can live with this. I like the burst changes. More DPS with higher heat makes it very similar to "Spike Damage" classes in MMO's Designed to kill people being logi'd How I Imagine I look when running Minmatar Scout PSN: EVL_Elgost105

Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 3895	Posted - 2014.07.17 16:10:00 - [11] - Quote As a HMG specialist (Read my Guide) I support these changes overall. Heat Buildup: I am an experienced HMG user and I donGÇÖt like wasting bullets. Therefor I normally shoot in bursts, and only when I am on target. So I donGÇÖt think I will be effected a great deal from these changes. However, the spray and prey crowd who are always calling for a Nano Hive because they have burned through 1000 rounds, will probably have more trouble with the heat build up. It will make the HMG require more skill to use effectively, which will reduce the number of people using it as easy mode. That is a good thing. Currently I only overheat my Standard HMG when trying to kill a LAV (can we get the +25% damage to vehicles to balance this heat buildup nerf?) and when firing into a crowd of 4 or 5 people huddled together (fish in a barrel) where I can change targets while continuing to fire every time I get a kill without wasting bullets. With the increased heat buildup those overheat situations will happen more often, but they can be managed. Normalizing ranges across all tiers: I am all for this. Sometimes I use Standard HMG and sometimes I use Proto HMG. It will be a lot easier if their range profile is consistent. I wonGÇÖt have muscle memory working against me. Burst HMG changes: These sound interesting. However too many variables are changing for me to comment before testing. Rate of fire, damage per round, and burst delay are all changing, which will all effect how fast heat builds up while trying to kill someone. This could make it OP or UP, so I suggest you test it carefully. I like the reduction in the burst delay. I like to fire in short bursts with the Standard HMG, but with the Burst HMG I would fire a burst and then when I would pull the trigger for the next burst the delay would not be over yet and nothing would happen for a moment. Since I have the slowest trigger speed of anyone I know, this does lead me to believe that the bust delay was too long. I am thinking that the Burst HMG with the new changes might go very well with the Minmitar Sentinel suit play style. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Killer's Coys Prima Gallicus 39	Posted - 2014.07.17 16:12:00 - [12] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: ResistanceGTA wrote: I can't believe these are final changes that we can have no input on... How rude of you Rattati... I kid of course. I'll have my Heavy read over it and discuss with him before I give any actual feedback. From my not Heavy eyes, I like it. Also, my name isn't Rattati. HAHAHAHA Amazing EDIT : Good job Logibro, I've wanted that for 1.8, thank you
Cody Sietz SVER True Blood Dark Taboo 3607	Posted - 2014.07.17 16:27:00 - [13] - Quote Loving the changes. Nice to see the balance chisel come out instead of the ol'nerfhammer :) "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
CommanderBolt ACME SPECIAL FORCES RISE of LEGION 1343	Posted - 2014.07.17 17:10:00 - [14] - Quote So the Burst HMG is going to **** even faster than it already does with a penalty of increased heat? (So this in my opinion only affect burst hmg vs heavy fights) 50+ meter effective range! Its too much. -=#[ Gastun's Forge ]#=- MY LIFE FOR AIUR! "I'm wasting away here" - "Get me back into zee fight!

CCP Logibro C C P C C P Alliance 8500	Posted - 2014.07.17 17:33:00 - [15] - Quote CommanderBolt wrote: So the Burst HMG is going to **** even faster than it already does with a penalty of increased heat? (So this in my opinion only affect burst hmg vs heavy fights) 50+ meter effective range! Its too much. Interestingly enough, the Burst HMG now does less damage per burst, but much higher DPS overall. The effective range is only an increase for the standard HMG. The Advanced already has that range, and the prototype is getting a reduction (remember, effective range is where you're doing 30% damage, optimal is 100%) And to Fox: You can just hold the trigger down and it will cycle bursts the moment the delay ends, no need to mash the trigger. I'll consider the increase in damage to LAVs, but I would have to run the numbers first. CCP Logibro // Patron Saint of Logistics // Distributor of Nanites (a¦á_a¦á)

I-Shayz-I I----------I 4139	Posted - 2014.07.17 18:15:00 - [16] - Quote Very excited to finally see players having to control the heat function. Not sure how I feel about the burst changes. I really liked the position it used to be in as you had I think 5-6 bursts before you overheated, which was about half of your ammo before you had to reload. Does this mean it'll be more like 3-4 bursts before you overheat then, while increasing the amount of bursts you can get off quickly? You say that it'll result in an overall dps increase, yet each bursts does less damage total...I guess it's hard for me to imagine how that would actually feel in-game 7162 wp with a Repair Tool! List of Legion Feedback Threads!

CCP Logibro C C P C C P Alliance 8519	Posted - 2014.07.17 18:18:00 - [17] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: Very excited to finally see players having to control the heat function. Not sure how I feel about the burst changes. I really liked the position it used to be in as you had I think 5-6 bursts before you overheated, which was about half of your ammo before you had to reload. Does this mean it'll be more like 3-4 bursts before you overheat then, while increasing the amount of bursts you can get off quickly? You say that it'll result in an overall dps increase, yet each bursts does less damage total...I guess it's hard for me to imagine how that would actually feel in-game With the Six Kin Burst Heavy Machine Gun, you overheat at the start of your 7th burst. If you look at the linked spreadsheet, it should state how many rounds you fire before you overheat, as well as the % of the clip. The big difference now is the massive increase in actual fire interval (0.024 to 0.015, including burst delay). So you can fire your bursts much faster now. CCP Logibro // Patron Saint of Logistics // Distributor of Nanites (a¦á_a¦á)

Leeroy Gannarsein Legio DXIV 515	Posted - 2014.07.17 18:33:00 - [18] - Quote I quite like this. I'm not sure what the burst changes will entail, but I think his is a pretty good place for the HMG. I also think the scouts need to be a little less bitter that they're no longer the primary assault suit, but I digress. It would seem like wisdom, but for the warning in my heart... CCP BLOWOUT FOR CPM1
KalOfTheRathi Nec Tributis 1346	Posted - 2014.07.17 18:39:00 - [19] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: ResistanceGTA wrote: I can't believe these are final changes that we can have no input on... How rude of you Rattati... Also, my name isn't Rattati. True, but he is the one editing the database. What is it that you do these days, CCP Logibro? I have no idea beyond your being on the forums. And so it goes.

CCP Logibro C C P C C P Alliance 8526	Posted - 2014.07.17 18:53:00 - [20] - Quote KalOfTheRathi wrote: CCP Logibro wrote: ResistanceGTA wrote: I can't believe these are final changes that we can have no input on... How rude of you Rattati... Also, my name isn't Rattati. True, but he is the one editing the database. What is it that you do these days, CCP Logibro? I have no idea beyond your being on the forums. Actually, I'm the one that's more likely to be putting the new numbers into FSD than CCP Rattati. Still a community guy and CPM coordinator, also moonlighting as a mad scientist. CCP Logibro // Patron Saint of Logistics // Distributor of Nanites (a¦á_a¦á)


Dustbunny Durrr ReD or DeaD 240	Posted - 2014.07.17 19:07:00 - [21] - Quote As a heavy, I must say, these changes seem reasonable. I especially like that the burst will be getting better at being a "logibuster" (shooting and killing a heavy through a logi's reps) while getting worse at crowd control. That being said, I still think the assault HMG might need a slight buff (and I do mean slight) whereas the regular HMG might have a touch (and once again, I do mean slight) too much range. I think a 2-3 meter reduction in the range of the regular HMG (perhaps even decrease the optimal by 2-3 meters, and increase falloff to keep the total range the same) would do the trick. These latter changes could come as part of a future patch however. I'm fine simply doing the stated changes for now.

CCP Logibro C C P C C P Alliance 8532	Posted - 2014.07.17 19:11:00 - [22] - Quote Dustbunny Durrr wrote: As a heavy, I must say, these changes seem reasonable. I especially like that the burst will be getting better at being a "logibuster" (shooting and killing a heavy through a logi's reps) while getting worse at crowd control. That being said, I still think the assault HMG might need a slight buff (and I do mean slight) whereas the regular HMG might have a touch (and once again, I do mean slight) too much range. I think a 2-3 meter reduction in the range of the regular HMG (perhaps even decrease the optimal by 2-3 meters, and increase falloff to keep the total range the same) would do the trick. These latter changes could come as part of a future patch however. I'm fine simply doing the stated changes for now. We're aware of the Assault HMG needing a bit of love, so we'll be looking at that one later. Main change here is heat and the burst. CCP Logibro // Patron Saint of Logistics // Distributor of Nanites (a¦á_a¦á)

HowDidThatTaste Ancient Exiles. General Tso's Alliance 5137	Posted - 2014.07.17 19:11:00 - [23] - Quote Looks like good fixes. However I still find that the MH-82 is better to use because of the lower cost The difference in DPs is less than 1 bullet difference and really doesn't feel any better. I had thought that I felt more range with the boundless but this fix may see it the same as the MH-82? What's the thought on increasing the damage slightly more for the boundless to give it more seperation? Not sure what the penalty might be? Higher heat build up for the proto level? The boundless just needs more seperation from the MH-82 in terms of reason to use it for the cost difference. With such few choices and all
Summ Dude Direct Action Resources 419	Posted - 2014.07.17 19:12:00 - [24] - Quote Yea, no issues with the heat build-up changes; we'll see what they look like. However I'd say that the Assault HMG still needs much more attention. It has the same dispersion as the basic HMG, which makes that extra 10ish meters of range virtually useless. I think it desperately needs a tighter spread. Not just a laymen, but the laymen. Winn Summ and lose Summ.

CCP Logibro C C P C C P Alliance 8532	Posted - 2014.07.17 19:14:00 - [25] - Quote HowDidThatTaste wrote: Looks like good fixes. However I still find that the MH-82 is better to use because of the lower cost The difference in DPs is less than 1 bullet difference and really doesn't feel any better. I had thought that I felt more range with the boundless but this fix may see it the same as the MH-82? What's the thought on increasing the damage slightly more for the boundless to give it more seperation? Not sure what the penalty might be? Higher heat build up for the proto level? The boundless just needs more seperation from the MH-82 in terms of reason to use it for the cost difference. Like all Proto weapons aimed at use in infantry, the difference in damage is 5%. The Boundless also has lower heat per second, allowing it to fire longer before overheating. Summ Dude wrote: Yea, no issues with the heat build-up changes; we'll see what they look like. However I'd say that the Assault HMG still needs much more attention. It has the same dispersion as the basic HMG, which makes that extra 10ish meters of range virtually useless. I think it desperately needs a tighter spread. As mentioned earlier, these changes aren't looking to help out the Assault HMG at this stage. We can definitely come back to it later though. CCP Logibro // Patron Saint of Logistics // Distributor of Nanites (a¦á_a¦á)

Maiden selena MORTIMOR Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 32	Posted - 2014.07.17 19:24:00 - [26] - Quote FraggerMike wrote: My little assault suit likes this :) my lil assault suit likes this as well no im not a mortedeamor alt..im her slave sometimes i run weak guns just to make pubstomping more of a challenge
Dustbunny Durrr ReD or DeaD 240	Posted - 2014.07.17 19:30:00 - [27] - Quote One thing I missed the first time around is the officer HMG changes seem a bit draconian (heat per second is increasing 40%). Seeing as they are quite rare, and as they are a close quarters weapon people will be losing them if they use them (unlike a Thale's, but that's another story entirely). Obviously this is more of a judgement call, but simply due to their very limited supply, and high probability of loss due to them being a close quarters weapon, I think the officer HMGs should see less heat nerf.
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 15436	Posted - 2014.07.17 21:01:00 - [28] - Quote Won't change much. I see no harm in it, I guess. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 2767	Posted - 2014.07.17 21:12:00 - [29] - Quote I look forward to seeing how this works out Dev Not Named Rattati. This is how a minja feels
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1503	Posted - 2014.07.17 21:15:00 - [30] - Quote 7-10 seconds is still way too much of spray and pray lol800DPS even if "its an HMG". This will change nothing. Please consider a heftier penalty. The only thing affected by this would be that instead of being able to kill 7 people in 10 seconds, you can only kill 5. "Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms. Kills-Archduke Ferd1nand



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