DUST Search - Sticky:Hotfix Charlie - HMG Heat and Burst HMG Changes

CCP Logibro wrote:

Hey guys

So with Hotfix Charlie we've been taking a look at HMG Heat, primarily to make heat management much more important for HMG users.

Overall, all HMGs now overheat faster, with a 2 heat/sec increase to the Base standard HMG.

Burst HMGs have received a much more extensive overhaul, with radical increases to their fire rate and reduction in burst delay, as well as a decrease in the amount of damage per round. This results in a DPS increase, but at the expense of overheating even quicker than before. They should now properly function as a front loaded weapon where you either have to end the fight quickly, or lose out to an opponent in a sustained fight. We concerned that it might be a little too powerful, so we would especially like to get your feedback on this change.

Assault HMGs have received no changes beyond the heat adjustment.

Additionally, range progression has been removed from all HMGs, and they now all have an optimal of 31.5m with an effective range of 52.5m (matching the advanced HMG). Assault variants still continue to have longer range than Base and Burst HMGs.

All the details are in this spreadsheet.

As always, changes are not final, and we would love to hear your feedback.

"One does not simply" run like a Raptor. Only mk.0 Scouts do ... wait... I'm still outclassed by Gal scouts.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 9 post(s)
Dustbunny Durrr ReD or DeaD 240	Posted - 2014.07.17 23:23:00 - [31] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: 7-10 seconds is still way too much of spray and pray lol800DPS even if "its an HMG". This will change nothing. Please consider a heftier penalty. The only thing affected by this would be that instead of being able to kill 7 people in 10 seconds, you can only kill 5. It's being changed from 7.15-8.425 to 6.25-6.95. In other words, the proto HMG will in charlie overheat sooner than the regular one does now. Stated another way, 648-1168 DPS less damage is done prior to overheat.. I like the way CCP is gradually changing weapons/suits atm. It prevents something from becoming "overnerfed" (see flaylock pistol, it went from godlike to utterly useless). When coupled with frequent hotfixes, it gives them the option to nerf further if their data shows something is still overpowered, without the playerbase blowback of overnerfing. (See loss aversion. It is an economic concept but it works for nerfing/buffing weapons in our favorite shooter as well).
IgniteableAura Pro Hic Immortalis 1398	Posted - 2014.07.18 00:22:00 - [32] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: We concerned that it might be a little too powerful, so we would especially like to get your feedback on this change. As always, changes are not final, and we would love to hear your feedback. Reducing range can really help with the OP factor of the burst imo. I didn't see any ranges, but perhaps it needs bit of a range reduction. So burst is built for CQC, similar to shotgun in HMG style. I've only ever overheated the regular HMG once, and that was when I was trying to kill an LAV with an entire clip. So I am looking forward to the new OH changes. My Youtube Biomassed Podcast
Baal Omniscient Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 1960	Posted - 2014.07.18 00:44:00 - [33] - Quote I like the heat build up changes, I've been supporting this since the last HMG buff. I do hope that we can revisit this soon however after we see whether this is too much or not enough. Just because a few less people run it because they are just that bad doesn't mean it's heat build up is high enough. I'm not sure a 2 increase will be high enough, but until I see it in action I have no way of knowing. I am very interested in seeing these changes on the field. When we do visit the topic of the AHMG can we also have a discussion around the overheat to see how everyone feels about where it stands? Cross Atu for CPM1 Winmatar Assault, Proficiency 5 SMG's & Proficiency 5 Swarms Since Uprising 1.0
Broonfondle Majikthies Dogs of War Gaming 1213	Posted - 2014.07.18 03:31:00 - [34] - Quote I can't help thinking how much more useless the operation skill would be with these changes. What would everyone's thoughts be to changing it back to heat management? I can only speak personally but I never understood the support the change got in the first place. The kick was always manageable if you know how to compensate. Edit - Also what about letting the Assault variant being the one with better sustainability? let it have less kick and heat buildup to help it in ranged combat and give it a little extra flavour. I may be biased cus it does happen to be my favourite. "The air smells damp and oppressive, like a wet nun" "Why am I talking to a lightbulb? Illuminate me"
Vicious Minotaur 1094	Posted - 2014.07.18 04:03:00 - [35] - Quote I'm fine with the normal variant changes. Much needed. Can't even form an opinion on burst variant change without trying it out first. Anyway, this change may put the normal and burst variants in a good place, but the assault HMG needs love, as has been noted. And all things considered, this change will do little to address the problems that people have with the Sentinels in and of themselves... but that is a thread for another time. One step at a time. I am a minotaur.
Senator Snipe Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State 175	Posted - 2014.07.18 04:06:00 - [36] - Quote O.o i had no idea the assault hmg had more range than all the variants. I will give it a try. My forge skills are unmatchable. It's not that i lose battles, its just that sometimes i don't feel like winning them.
castba Merc-0107 514	Posted - 2014.07.18 04:25:00 - [37] - Quote I am actually a little concerned that it will decrease the effectiveness against heavies using the standard variant. I get the dps maths, but can't help but see it as a flanking-only style weapon with these changes. As the "all or nothing" aspect will be more pronounced since overheat will be considerably increased, I would like to see a slight increase to ROF - shortening the duration of the actual burst slightly... If the engine/server etc can handle it.
Bormir1r Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 537	Posted - 2014.07.18 05:02:00 - [38] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: Hey guys So with Hotfix Charlie we've been taking a look at HMG Heat, primarily to make heat management much more important for HMG users. Overall, all HMGs now overheat faster, with a 2 heat/sec increase to the Base standard HMG. Burst HMGs have received a much more extensive overhaul, with radical increases to their fire rate and reduction in burst delay, as well as a decrease in the amount of damage per round. This results in a DPS increase, but at the expense of overheating even quicker than before. They should now properly function as a front loaded weapon where you either have to end the fight quickly, or lose out to an opponent in a sustained fight. We concerned that it might be a little too powerful, so we would especially like to get your feedback on this change. Assault HMGs have received no changes beyond the heat adjustment. Additionally, range progression has been removed from all HMGs, and they now all have an optimal of 31.5m with an effective range of 52.5m (matching the advanced HMG). Assault variants still continue to have longer range than Base and Burst HMGs. All the details are in this spreadsheet. As always, changes are not final, and we would love to hear your feedback. This is how HMGs are supposed to be. Thank you CCP. "One does not simply" run like a Raptor. Only mk.0 Scouts do ... wait... I'm still outclassed by Gal scouts.
Bormir1r Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 537	Posted - 2014.07.18 05:03:00 - [39] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Future Expectations Community: Heavies are too numerous and HMGs too effective; ambush has degraded to "follow the heavy" Heavies [in their very best pilot voice]: Nuh uh; everything is fine. QQ, GOML, get gud, teamwork, etc Edit: Fine by me to start with Heat, but I suspect more will be required in Delta. They did remove range....it may be possible more is required but I think this may be it... "One does not simply" run like a Raptor. Only mk.0 Scouts do ... wait... I'm still outclassed by Gal scouts.
Bormir1r Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 537	Posted - 2014.07.18 05:08:00 - [40] - Quote I do have one question though; when the HMG overheats, how long will it not be able to fire? "One does not simply" run like a Raptor. Only mk.0 Scouts do ... wait... I'm still outclassed by Gal scouts.

Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 11100	Posted - 2014.07.18 07:39:00 - [41] - Quote I would add an extra 1 or 2 heat/sec to the normal HMG and keep the Assault HMG exactly as it is now, without any heat changes. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
Velociraptor antirrhopus Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 322	Posted - 2014.07.18 07:55:00 - [42] - Quote oh my god i wonder how the burst will perform... it already sounds delicious rattati <3 DUST 514 Forums. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villa- er, I mean panty weights and neckbeards.
broonfondle majikthies Dogs of War Gaming 1215	Posted - 2014.07.18 09:05:00 - [43] - Quote Bormir1r wrote: I do have one question though; when the HMG overheats, how long will it not be able to fire? 10 seconds "The air smells damp and oppressive, like a wet nun" "Why am I talking to a lightbulb? Illuminate me"
Arcturis Vanguard Escrow Removal and Acquisition Dark Taboo 188	Posted - 2014.07.18 14:29:00 - [44] - Quote Proposed changed seem legit, Maybe even too light without field testing first. I'd rather have baby steps in the right direction then a leap in the wrong... I'm very interested in the burst New performance and slightly concerned at the same time. This will have to be field tested extensively as a lot is being changed at one time. Keep up the positive changes CCP! Amarr Heavy V Amarr Assault V Caldari Scout V Caldari logistic IV Prof V HMG & FORGE Prof IV CR, SMG Prof III ScR
Fleen Costell'o Vacuum Cleaner. LLC Steel Balls Alliance 425	Posted - 2014.07.18 16:13:00 - [45] - Quote facepalm next weak OP Hewy vs Scouts. Place your bets DUALSHOCK 4 -¢-â-ç-ê-¦ -+-¦ -¦-ï-¦-¦-¦-é )
Dustbunny Durrr ReD or DeaD 242	Posted - 2014.07.18 17:48:00 - [46] - Quote Broonfondle Majikthies wrote: Bormir1r wrote: I do have one question though; when the HMG overheats, how long will it not be able to fire? 10 seconds I thought it was 8? But either way, if you overheat, high probability that you're gonna die.
Velociraptor antirrhopus Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 330	Posted - 2014.07.18 22:34:00 - [47] - Quote I'm not amazed with how you're succumbing to the QQ about heavies but... I think you handled it well. If this doesn't silence the QQ nothing will. PLEASE do not touch turn speed and damage. DUST 514 Forums. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villa- er, I mean panty weights and neckbeards.
xXcythe Inner.Hell 20	Posted - 2014.07.19 16:01:00 - [48] - Quote Wats the chance of lowering the reticle position to more accurately match the physical position of the hmg??? CCP ain't solely responisble for killing Dust....the assholes who exploit the mechanics of the game did their part also.
IAmDuncanIdaho II R 0 N 1 N 618	Posted - 2014.07.20 11:26:00 - [49] - Quote Leeroy Gannarsein wrote: I quite like this. I'm not sure what the burst changes will entail, but I think his is a pretty good place for the HMG. I also think the scouts need to be a little less bitter that they're no longer the primary assault suit, but I digress. You meant the faux FotM scouts I believe : https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2269309#post2269309 You must learn honor, or you deserve to learn nothing at all. ~ Rivvy Dinari - Swordmaster of Ginaz
Racro 01 Arifistan 501st Knights of Leanbox 393	Posted - 2014.07.20 13:32:00 - [50] - Quote yay.my plasma rifles now out rnage hmgs. by 0.5m. for both optimal and effective. *Elite Gallenten Soldier*


CCP Logibro C C P C C P Alliance 8632	Posted - 2014.07.20 14:38:00 - [51] - Quote Racro 01 Arifistan wrote: yay.my plasma rifles now out rnage hmgs. by 0.5m. for both optimal and effective. Plasma Rifles have an optimal of 43m and an effective range of 70m. You've got a bit more than that. CCP Logibro // Patron Saint of Logistics // Distributor of Nanites (a¦á_a¦á)

Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6365	Posted - 2014.07.20 14:44:00 - [52] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: Racro 01 Arifistan wrote: yay.my plasma rifles now out rnage hmgs. by 0.5m. for both optimal and effective. Plasma Rifles have an optimal of 43m and an effective range of 70m. You've got a bit more than that. But who has the better DPS at 40m, is the question Useful Links Aeon Amadi for CPM1
Temias Mercurial Knights Of Ender RISE of LEGION 125	Posted - 2014.07.20 15:38:00 - [53] - Quote Leeroy Gannarsein wrote: I quite like this. I'm not sure what the burst changes will entail, but I think his is a pretty good place for the HMG. I also think the scouts need to be a little less bitter that they're no longer the primary assault suit, but I digress. Where did the discussion of scouts come from? Scouts are the onlookers, intel providers, and assassins. Heavies are breach and clear, leaving a trail of bodies in their wake... as they should do. It's almost as if you're implying that heavies are not used... Also, as a scout myself, the only thing I'm bitter about is that you're making arrogant assumptions... My apologies if I come off as an elitist, but I try to view things objectively, logically, and factually.
Rusty Shallows Caldari State 1893	Posted - 2014.07.20 22:33:00 - [54] - Quote Velociraptor antirrhopus wrote: I'm not amazed with how you're succumbing to the QQ about heavies but... I think you handled it well. If this doesn't silence the QQ nothing will. PLEASE do not touch turn speed and damage. These changes don't feel like a nerf, at least on paper. More a refinement inside the family of HMGs. The relevancy of heat management has been a tricky topic with changes to the base skill and ROF. I'd say try them out the Charlie when they come out and determine for yourself if it is a nerf or fine-tuning. Forums > Game: So here is a cookie and a Like. Please keep posting. Bwahahahahahahahahahaha! >>> GòÜ(GÇóGîéGÇó)Gò¥ >>>
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4491	Posted - 2014.07.21 00:28:00 - [55] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: Dustbunny Durrr wrote: As a heavy, I must say, these changes seem reasonable. I especially like that the burst will be getting better at being a "logibuster" (shooting and killing a heavy through a logi's reps) while getting worse at crowd control. That being said, I still think the assault HMG might need a slight buff (and I do mean slight) whereas the regular HMG might have a touch (and once again, I do mean slight) too much range. I think a 2-3 meter reduction in the range of the regular HMG (perhaps even decrease the optimal by 2-3 meters, and increase falloff to keep the total range the same) would do the trick. These latter changes could come as part of a future patch however. I'm fine simply doing the stated changes for now. We're aware of the Assault HMG needing a bit of love, so we'll be looking at that one later. Main change here is heat and the burst. Significantly lower damage, greatly increase accuracy and zoom potential, GREATLY increase ammunition, make it almost impossible to overheat. Give it a different name classification and use the weapon for long range extended suppression fire and anti-vehicle damage.

CCP Logibro C C P C C P Alliance 8784	Posted - 2014.07.30 16:31:00 - [56] - Quote Thanks for your feedback guys, this thread has run it's course and will now be moved to the archive. CCP Logibro // Patron Saint of Logistics // Distributor of Nanites (a¦á_a¦á)



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