DUST Search - Sticky:Hotfix Charlie - Dropsuit Slot Layout Discussion

CCP Rattati wrote:

The variable slot count per tier for the logis specifically. I don't see a reason why we don't equalize slot count per tier this round. Any objections? :)

Thanks for the detailed feedback, it verifies my thoughts.

I would like to discuss having two passive logis that need to defend their placed equipment, AM and CA and two active logis, MM and GA. [b]I.e. trading the CA low for a sidearm[/b].

Aeon Amadi wrote:

Quite the contrary, Logistics do -NOT- have to have more PG/CPU... They can have the same amount of PG/CPU as Assaults and just have better reductions from their bonus, if your main concern is the equipment resource costs being high. And yes, I'd argue that the spare room means quite a bit if only because of those bonuses. As I described earlier, the benefits on the weapon fitting for the assault don't stack up to the amount of extra PG/CPU that the logistics already has; you're still coming out on top with the Logistics, bonuses considered.

And uhh.... Assaults don't get damage bonuses either... If you're assuming that the Assaults are getting a damage bonus than you might want to take another look at Assaults Lol

. I don't know of any Logistics that use SMGs by default and Combat Rifles aren't preferred just because of their cheap resource costs, they're pretty effective despite that.

Where was it mentioned that they were going to trade a low slot for the sidearm? I was under the impression it was an equipment slot.


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 37 post(s)
Skylight Atoma The Phoenix Federation Dark Taboo 11	Posted - 2014.07.20 13:00:00 - [1] - Quote I'm only experienced in a few suits (amarr logi/assault), but I am pretty well versed in PCs so that's mainly where my viewpoint is from. I am for Amarr and Caldari both having sidearms, and I wouldn't be too upset if they were taken away in the future as long as Logistics and Assaults were more balanced/fixed as a whole at that point. Slot layouts are a good place to start, but it's not the root of the issue. On how medium suits work in PCs atm: I like the idea of having a combat focused logi, the problem is that as far as slaying goes heavies were always preferred in higher numbers than assault or slayer logis (logis simply because of their higher slot layout, or the old hacking bonus on minny logi). When Scouts were introduced it made Assaults/slayer logi obsolete due to their incredible mobility and cloaks, and the assault bonuses/fundamental design aren't keeping pace with scouts. They don't offer anything that another suit can't do a lot better except for maybe dropping nanohives. (I know that's the Cal logi bonus, just saying in general). Assault suits are pretty much in the same realm as logis as far as DPS output goes, it's marginally higher than logi suits but they bring nothing else. As a logi I am essentially ONLY there for my role bonus and am pigeonholed into fitting a swarm launcher as my light weapon since I can't do any meaningful damage to heavies or any to a scout before I get instagibbed. At least with a flaylock for a sidearm I can sometimes pick off a scout if they are caught off guard, otherwise I'm just repping people/dropping uplinks (which is probly fine since that's the main focus of a logi, my point is I can't do anything BUT logi as far as medium suits go, so now i'm saving up a few more million to be useful in a heavy or scout just to be able to kill things) On slot layouts: I can tell you that the Amarr logi NEEDS a pg/cpu buff because armor mods take a lot more fitting than they used to. Even now with core/engineering/electronics 4 I have someting like 7 CPU free on all my fits, and I can't even use all my highs for basic/advanced shield extenders/damage mods since there's no PG left. That's including fitting skills for all weapons I use at 4/5 The Amarr Assault can probably do with a little more PG. The fitting progression on Caldari scout is frustrating, I can only fit it half decently with Scout lvl 3. At Scout 1/2 I couldn't even fit a full militia/standard tank on it with fitting mods without skipping on an equipment slot and grenade
Skylight Atoma The Phoenix Federation Dark Taboo 11	Posted - 2014.07.20 17:27:00 - [2] - Quote Logi suits HAVE to have more pg/cpu because equipment fittings are so high and you're fitting more things than an assault. Comparing the spare fitting on racial medium suits really doesn't mean much because of the bonuses on each suit. You also have to remember that logi suits get no damage bonuses of any sort so it doesn't matter what weapon you throw on there. So what happens is you see logis fitting the cheapest weapon types. Combat Rifles, Swarm Launchers (more expensive but good utility), militia/basic shotguns, and SMGs. I believe I saw a dev mention they would be in favor of trading a low slot for the sidearm slot, so it's not going to be as OP as you think (it wouldn't even be OP in the grand scheme of DUST how it is currently or when assault gets fixed.) Slot layouts and fitting resource changes alone are not going to fix assaults, it's not the root of the problem.
Skylight Atoma The Phoenix Federation Dark Taboo 11	Posted - 2014.07.20 18:05:00 - [3] - Quote Doc DDD wrote: logis wouldn't need more pg/cpu than assaults if the equipment fitting efficiency bonus was as high as the scouts bonus to using the cloak. I agree with you in principle and that's probably a thing that should be done, but if it doesn't ever happen it's not going to break the balance between logi and assault. Not by a long shot unless for some reason the pg/cpu rebalance of assaults is horrendously bad. Then assaults are just still useless and logi isn't any more "OP"
Skylight Atoma The Phoenix Federation Dark Taboo 11	Posted - 2014.07.20 23:22:00 - [4] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: The variable slot count per tier for the logis specifically. I don't see a reason why we don't equalize slot count per tier this round. Any objections? :) Thanks for the detailed feedback, it verifies my thoughts. I would like to discuss having two passive logis that need to defend their placed equipment, AM and CA and two active logis, MM and GA. [b]I.e. trading the CA low for a sidearm[/b]. Aeon Amadi wrote: Quite the contrary, Logistics do -NOT- have to have more PG/CPU... They can have the same amount of PG/CPU as Assaults and just have better reductions from their bonus, if your main concern is the equipment resource costs being high. And yes, I'd argue that the spare room means quite a bit if only because of those bonuses. As I described earlier, the benefits on the weapon fitting for the assault don't stack up to the amount of extra PG/CPU that the logistics already has; you're still coming out on top with the Logistics, bonuses considered. And uhh.... Assaults don't get damage bonuses either... If you're assuming that the Assaults are getting a damage bonus than you might want to take another look at Assaults . I don't know of any Logistics that use SMGs by default and Combat Rifles aren't preferred just because of their cheap resource costs, they're pretty effective despite that. Where was it mentioned that they were going to trade a low slot for the sidearm? I was under the impression it was an equipment slot. Granted Rattati mentioned low -> sidearm as a possibility, so it doesn't have to be an equipment or low slot. True, logis aren't required by nature to have more pg/cpu, the bonuses can be altered. Currently it's the same bonus amount between logi and assault so yes, the bonus applies to more modules. Still, as it is currently I still have more base fitting on my amarr logi compared to assault and I'm still running short on trying to fit proto fitting optomisation bonused weapons (CR and Flaylock, both are very cheap on fitting), equipment, and armor tank; I can barely fit 2 basic shield extenders. Also, unless I'm living 5 feet under a rock, SMGs are the king of sidearms atm so it's basically a mini CR. So why not use one as a logi? Assaults don't get straight up damage bonuses like Commandos do, but they have better potentially applied DPS compared to Commandos. Less heat on lasers = more shots (lvl 4-5 doesn't matter on assault scrams), fast rail reload = less DPS downtime, ect. So theoretically in a longer firefight the assault could do more dps but assaults don't have the survivability of heavys or scouts to use that to their advantage (don't want to math this at all, but it would be a slim margin I think) .