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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 37 post(s) |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
11418
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Posted - 2014.07.16 21:48:00 -
[1] - Quote
Medium suit slot progression is too steep, I know I've went on about it before in my threadnaught, but please make progression only +1 high/low slow per tier; keep the same upper limit for proto, but buff standard and advanced.
You know my feeling regarding the Amarr logi sidearm thing, hopefully the Type-II suits will fill that void; hopefully they will come fairly soon, and won't be pointlessly more expensive.
As for the damage mod thing you mentioned, please make damage mods do 3% basic, 5% enhanced, and 7% complex.
I would also STRONGLY suggest adding new infantry weapon mods similar to damage mods: recoil reduction mods, heat mods, magazine size mods, accuracy mods, etc. They could all use the same skills as damage mods.
Anyway, I like what I see, good work.
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
11419
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Posted - 2014.07.16 21:53:00 -
[2] - Quote
Vulpes Dolosus wrote:ADV Cal scout needs the second low slot do dodge scans. I shouldn't have to pull a proto scout suit just to be a scout. Please keep the slot progression as it is.
Yeah, I have to agree with this.
For specifically the ADV Cal scout, please keep the current slot layout.
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
11425
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Posted - 2014.07.17 18:07:00 -
[3] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:OK this is literally going nowhere.  Can I ask you to only reply with "I like these changes" and see if there is a harmony in those answers. I seem to see a few happy Min Assaults, what about the GA STD and ADV logis who have been shafted out of slots for no reason that I can see? My belief was that players were asking for the slots to make more sense, less duplicate options and more racial flavoring. Such as fewer 3-2, 2-3. I also see a lot of Cals who want to keep their 2 lows to put amor plates or reps, that's really not a playstyle we would design around or cater too. Also keep in mind that Assaults are getting a decent ehp buff and pg/cpu, so don't use the current pg/cpu as a reason to say "no I don't want 4-1. Also keep in mind that we will be buffing dmg mods so a better use for high slots. In the end, we cannot, with slot layout design, stop anyone from doing shield extenders and normal plates. Yes, they will have of ehp, and that is something we are trying to address in Delta with some fitting bonus/efficacy solutions.
I like these changes... but
The slot gap between tiers for mediums is still to high.
The advanced Cal scout still bothers me.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Vulpes Dolosus wrote:ADV Cal scout needs the second low slot do dodge scans. I shouldn't have to pull a proto scout suit just to be a scout. Please keep the slot progression as it is. Yeah, I have to agree with this. For specifically the ADV Cal scout, please keep the current slot layout.
Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
11429
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Posted - 2014.07.19 20:09:00 -
[4] - Quote
Spreadsheet proposed Cal scout
STD 3/1
ADV 4/1 (can have just 1 dampener) please change to 3/2 for dampeners. All other scouts can have 2 dampeners at ADV
PRO 4/2
The advanced Cal scout is the only thing I feel is a genuine balance concern with the spreadsheet proposal.
Other than that, I have no serious problems with the proposals, and look forward to them.
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
11429
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Posted - 2014.07.19 20:59:00 -
[5] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:The variable slot count per tier for the logis specifically. I don't see a reason why we don't equalize slot count per tier this round. Any objections? :)
Thanks for the detailed feedback, it verifies my thoughts.
I would like to discuss having two passive logis that need to defend their placed equipment, AM and CA and two active logis, MM and GA. I.e. trading the CA low for a sidearm.
I fully support total module slot count equalization per tier.
WHY would you propose taking away the Amarr logi's sdearm, and then propose adding a sidearm to Cal logi? I don't understand, please explain your rationale.
To be clear, are you proposing the Cal logi keep their current small amount of equipment slots, but lose their 9th module from a low in exchange for gaining a sidearm? I'm trying to understand exactly what you're proposing.
EDIT: a sidearm should mean having EITHER less total module slots than other logis as a tradeoff, OR less equipment slots than other logis, but not both of these penalties.
Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
11429
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Posted - 2014.07.19 21:25:00 -
[6] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:I don't understand the confusion, I originally said I don't like the complete irregularity that the Amarr logi sidearm is, because it obfuscates all true comparisons between the logis.
Now, if Caldari logis have a sidearm, and the same number of slots as the Amarr, then there is no singular discrepancy, then there is a reason and we can balance the two combat logis against each other.
Just as if we would remove the Amarr sidearm and the CA low, and equalize all the logis at all tiers.
I maintain that the dropsuit is such a fundamental item in the dust balance, that slot layouts should be very consistent, logical and not have inherent discrepancies, because those layouts translate into PG/CPU. That's why we are proposing a single matrix of universal dropsuit layouts. And that is also, why the CA ADV scout has 4-1, changing that single one to 3-2 would "break" the whole universal proposal.
The differences should be at the role/racial and module/weapon level and that's where our choices become truly meaningful.
In the end, none of these changes are necessary, they have been this way for a long time and maybe they shouldn't be touched. I am sure we can find other things to balance.
So you're considering giving both the Amarr and Caldai logis sidearms? you should have been more clear.
I would be fine with both the Amarr and Caldari logis having a sidearm, as long as they both either have less total module slots than other logis (7 instead of 8), OR have less equipment slot than other logis (2 at standard, 3 at proto), but not both penalties (the current Amarr logi currently has both penalties).
Also, I see no problem with irregularity when it comes to balancing, as long as the tradeoff causing the irregularity is equivalent and clear (like dropsuit A is different from others of the type because it trades an X slot to gain a Y slot)
Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
11431
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Posted - 2014.07.19 21:51:00 -
[7] - Quote
Doc DDD wrote:I think it works if the Cal logi gets a nice chunk of its cpu nerfed a year ago back.(shield based suit)
Without cpu buff it needs the low.(for a chip)
With more base cpu and a sidearm there would be less armor tanking Cal logis as from the looks of it the Cal assault may start looking more attractive if it's shields get more effective.
Yeah, I think the CPU nerf should be reversed. The CPU was never the problem in my opinion, it was the 9 module slots.
Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
11438
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Posted - 2014.07.20 22:39:00 -
[8] - Quote
CCP Rattati, I am hearing from someone that the proposed assault slot changes are cancelled, is this true? I hope its not.
Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
11443
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Posted - 2014.07.23 00:22:00 -
[9] - Quote
These changes please me.
Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
11445
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Posted - 2014.07.23 11:42:00 -
[10] - Quote
I don't think assaults should get an 8th slot, given they're getting a +150 HP buff. Keep the HP buff, but do not add the new module slot at proto. Keep the advanced tier slot though, closing the gap between proto and lower tier is a good thing; would really like to see an extra module slot at standard as well. 5/6/7 slot progression please.
Tried this Amarr assault fit on protofits (link here http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/759/5678 ). I added 150 to the armor, and factored the skills.
Shields: 120 x 1.25 (shield skill bonus) = 150
Armor: 240 + 150 = 390 x 1.25 (armor skill bonus) = 487.5
Total eHP with skills before mods: 637.5
Obviously these calculations may not be correct because I don't know how the +150 HP will be distributed between shields and armor.
Now add some plates. For the sake of being conservative with HP estimates, lets only use ferroscales. 4 complex ferroscales and 1 armor repairer. Complex ferroscales are 75, and with skills they are each 82.5. 82.5 x 4 is 330, add that to our previous total, and now the eHP is 967.5; this is a conservative estimate using low HP plates (ferroscales), and already its clear that the assault will be more like a heavy.
A simpler way to illustrate the point: without the +150 HP, the fit I linked would have 780 eHP, now just add 150 HP, and now you have 930 eHP. Whatever methodology you use to calculate it, its too much. Once again I remind that this is just a conservative estimate, and regular plates would lead to even higher eHP numbers.
Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
11450
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Posted - 2014.07.23 21:33:00 -
[11] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:We would rather cut the ehp buff than the additional slots, we feel it underlines the versatility aspect of the assault, spec for the situation.
I think eHP should have higher priority than slots since it applies to all tiers, while the extra slots are only applied to specific tiers. Also more slots lead to higher cost of fittings.
Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
11452
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Posted - 2014.07.23 22:18:00 -
[12] - Quote
Killer's Coys wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:We would rather cut the ehp buff than the additional slots, we feel it underlines the versatility aspect of the assault, spec for the situation. I think eHP should have higher priority than slots since it applies to all tiers, while the extra slots are only applied to specific tiers. Also more slots lead to higher cost of fittings. I don't know what are the problems... Rattati has gived to assault : - more PG/CPU - extra slot for ADV and PRO - 150eHP buff (armor and shield) - grenade fitting bonus For Delta : - better race bonus So... I dont know... For me, the work is perfect for assault. Thanks Rattati, and good work
The problem is that an extra slot is unnecessary when assaults are already getting +150 HP, and basically turns assaults into heavies. My earlier post illustrates this point with some HP calculations.
Anyway, if either the 8th slot, or the HP had to go, I say that the HP should definitely stay while the 8th slot should definitely go. The slot raises the gap between standard and proto even higher (bad), while the HP buff would effect all tiers equally (which is good).
Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
11453
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Posted - 2014.07.24 00:15:00 -
[13] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:True Adamance wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:I don't think assaults should get an 8th slot, given they're getting a +150 HP buff. Keep the HP buff, but do not add the new module slot at proto. Keep the advanced tier slot though, closing the gap between proto and lower tier is a good thing; would really like to see an extra module slot at standard as well. 5/6/7 slot progression please. Tried this Amarr assault fit on protofits (link here http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/759/5678 ). I added 150 to the armor, and factored the skills. Shields: 120 x 1.25 (shield skill bonus) = 150 Armor: 240 + 150 = 390 x 1.25 (armor skill bonus) = 487.5 Total eHP with skills before mods: 637.5 Obviously these calculations may not be correct because I don't know how the +150 HP will be distributed between shields and armor. Now add some plates. For the sake of being conservative with HP estimates, lets only use ferroscales. 4 complex ferroscales and 1 armor repairer. Complex ferroscales are 75, and with skills they are each 82.5. 82.5 x 4 is 330, add that to our previous total, and now the eHP is 967.5; this is a conservative estimate using low HP plates (ferroscales), and already its clear that the assault will be very tanky. A simpler way to illustrate the point: without the +150 HP, the fit I linked would have 780 eHP, now just add 150 HP, and now you have 930 eHP. Whatever methodology you use to calculate it, its too much. Once again I remind that this is just a conservative estimate, and regular plates would lead to even higher eHP numbers.  This is all with 7 module slots, not 8 yet. An 8th would be too much Assaults will become heavies with an 8th. No extra slot at proto please. An Amarr Commando with 3 ferros is 1100 ehp and a 5 ferro gk logi is at 750 ehp. Seems like 950 for a stacked ferro Amarr Assault is right between them as intended. I pity to poor fool who runs 3 plates on an Amarr Commando..... I'm kind of concerned at the moment..... EHP values just seems to be growing higher and higher.... slot distributions grow ever more plentiful...... however I looks forwards to the changes as always....might log back in for Charlie. People are playing the maximum ehp game, regardless of viability. While assaults can't get more than sentinels, then there can not be ehp power creep. However, we may need to intervene with normal plate fitting increases, the raw ehp stacking is not what we want for Dust.
Your commando example replying to my earlier comment I don't think was a fair example given that I did not use all low slots for plates in my assault example, the assault had an armor repairer, while the commando did not.
I wasn't playing the maximum eHP game, I used an armor repairer (so all low slots weren't for HP tanking) and only ferroscales for a conservative estimate on a viable fit (a fit I would actually use). Since we're playing max eHP, I will join in. No weapons, more equipment, only HP mods.
I believe you stated before that the 150 HP for Amarr would be distributed 100 to armor, and 50 to shields.
Shields: 120 + 50 = 170 x 1.25 (shield skill bonus) = 212.5
Armor: 240 + 100 = 340 x 1.25 (armor skill bonus) = 425
Total eHP with skills before mods: 637.5
Now add:
+3 complex shield extenders. With the skill bonus, each extender is 72.6, all 3 total is 217.8.
+5 complex armor plate. With skill bonuses, each is 148.5, all total is 594
Add it all up, you get 1,449.3
Here is the protofits link to make sure it all fits.
Now, going to do the same maximum HP test on a Amarr commando ak.0. Just like with the assault example, I will fill it to the brim with complex plates and complex extenders. No armor repairers, or anything else.
It all adds up to 1368.1, the commando now has a lesser HP ceiling than the assault.
Here is the protofits link.
Anyway, if either the 8th slot, or the HP had to go, I say that the HP should definitely stay while the 8th slot should definitely go. The slot raises the gap between standard and proto even higher (bad), while the HP buff would effect all tiers equally (good).
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