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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
xAckie
Ghost. Mob
427
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Posted - 2014.07.17 13:21:00 -
[1] - Quote
So it looks like we should all move to GalScout as Assault changes look uninspiring.
Nothing beats being invisible in an FPS.
(Also, Cloak should provide no bonus to dampening.) |
xAckie
Ghost. Mob
427
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Posted - 2014.07.17 16:07:00 -
[2] - Quote
Appia Vibbia wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:xAckie wrote:So it looks like we should all move to GalScout as Assault changes look uninspiring.
Nothing beats being invisible in an FPS.
(Also, Cloak should provide no bonus to dampening.) Tourists, slayers and FotM chasers ... Please, do continue to bolster the Scoutly ranks. Please, do defile our precision instruments with your fists of ham and frontline scrubbery. Please, do stack HP and frontline slay away; the more SP you invest, the better you'll be. Please, do max out your Biotics, EWAR, Cloak, Shotguns, RE and become slayer supreme. Please, do not be alarmed by talks of future efficacy bonuses. You'll get a respec. Promise. 
Don't worry I have it all skilled and then some. I have plenty of sp and plenty to spare. In infantry I am unnerfable. And that is a problem when the balance is whack. |
xAckie
Ghost. Mob
429
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Posted - 2014.07.20 15:20:00 -
[3] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:The True Inferno wrote:What I would suggest to fix this would be to increase the CPU on scouts, though right now your probably thinking "WTF you saying!? BUFF them again? Yo crazy" first, let me finish and second yes I am. I would suggest to increase the CPU on scouts WHILE severely reducing the PG, why may you ask? because every E-war module only takes CPU. This would intern emphsise the usage of scan modules and dampeners on scout suits, mainly because you would not be able to fit much hp modules on. This would have scouts become more stealthy, scanny and, if they fail to ambush you, easyer to kill. Scoutly things which consume PG:* Code Breakers * Remote Explosives * Uplinks * Cloak * Cardiac Regulators * Kinetic Catalyzers * Ferroscale Plates * Reactive Plates * Nova Knives We also use these not-necessarily-Scoutly things:* Primary Weapons * Secondary Weapons * Grenades * Shield Extenders
EWAR is 'scoutly things'. Thats why other classes dont use those modules
All the modules you list, bar cloak, are used by all other classes |
xAckie
Ghost. Mob
429
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Posted - 2014.07.20 16:28:00 -
[4] - Quote
Kallas Hallytyr wrote:xAckie wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Scoutly things which consume PG:
* Code Breakers
* Remote Explosives
* Uplinks
* Cloak
* Cardiac Regulators
* Kinetic Catalyzers
* Ferroscale Plates
* Reactive Plates
* Nova Knives
We also use these not-necessarily-Scoutly things:
* Primary Weapons
* Secondary Weapons
* Grenades
* Shield Extenders EWAR is 'scoutly things'. Thats why other classes dont use those modules All the modules you list, bar cloak, are used by all other classes While there certainly are things on the list that other roles use, there are many that show up most commonly on Scouts: Cloaks are obvious; KinCats are very commonly associated with Scouts; REs and Uplinks are staple Scout equipment and while other classes definitely use them as least as much, they are high PG tools which is the point being discussed.
They are as much a staple of the others. That's the point I was making. I dont think they are special to 'scout'. |
xAckie
Ghost. Mob
429
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Posted - 2014.07.20 16:56:00 -
[5] - Quote
Kallas Hallytyr wrote:xAckie wrote:They are as much a staple of the others. That's the point I was making. I dont think they are special to 'scout'. Special to Scouts, not really. But commonly used, such that a PG nerf would actually impact upon using them, despite the fact that Scouts deploying things like uplinks are a part of what Scouts are for.
I agree a PG nerf would have an impact and its an interesting route to think about.
Links for example can easily be associated with Logis - in particular the Amarr logi.
I think the problem of Scouts is that they are far too flexible. And thinking this list is a 'scoutly list' fails to recognise that other suits roles heavily rely on these modules/ equipment too.
What Scouts role is, is EWAR (its passive bonuses are based around this). The role should be strengthened around this. Otherwise we have the problem of Scout Assaults etc. |
xAckie
Ghost. Mob
431
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Posted - 2014.07.21 06:13:00 -
[6] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:@ Inferno / Ackie
The one thing all "assault lite" scouts have in common is armor plates. Why jump through all those hoops instead of speaking directly to the common denominator?
Scouts have suggested ewar module efficacy bonuses.
This would discourage use of plates among Scouts.
This type of balancing has continually failed in dust. People always mix and match. Efficacy only works if you want to play that role.
Adipem Nothi wrote:
Rattati has suggested armor plate penalties for Scouts.
This would discourage use of plates among Scouts.
If its speed? they will still be faster than the other frames (including strafe)
Adipem Nothi wrote:
Everyone has suggested making Assault Frames the go-to slayer fit.
This too will result in less plate usage among Scouts.
None of the Assault proposals have offered anything for a shift to assault. Scouts will be able to stack extenders /plates , have speed, have 2 equipment slots, reduced profile, be invisible, able to passively squad scan scouts, mediums and heavies at range. There is no downside.
Adipem Nothi wrote:
All that to say, we are already addressing the "assault lite" problem with solutions which speak to the root of the problem. Your proposal negatively affects aspects not-at-issue. Why break things which needn't be broken?
Because I think the class is broken.
Because we are already talking about hofix delta fixing hotfix charlie on the forums. The game is 2 years in and the simple balance fixes are not being done by CCP so we keep on ending up with this mess.
In Legion CCP seems to be saying they are going to circumvent this whole problem by going down the 'classes route'. Which will stop the 'flexibility' problem we see now. |
xAckie
Ghost. Mob
431
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Posted - 2014.07.21 06:19:00 -
[7] - Quote
Appia Vibbia wrote:lol, if you think the scout needs a PG reductions you're either stupid or an *******. KinCats, Codebreaker, Cloak, Uplink. 1 of each of those at PRO level totals 65 PG
Without Dropsuit Engineering skill your 3 PG over the Scout mk.0
You've got 1PG left to fit on a Scout ck.0
5 PG left on a Scout ak.0
and 10 PG left on a Scout gk.0
If you think the PG needs to be reduced on scouts you're an idiot or an *******.
Wow, rage much?
None of those modules bar cloak are scout modules.
Keep defending a flexible do it all suit.
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xAckie
Ghost. Mob
432
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Posted - 2014.07.21 09:13:00 -
[8] - Quote
Floyd20 Azizora wrote:xAckie wrote:Appia Vibbia wrote:lol, if you think the scout needs a PG reductions you're either stupid or an *******. KinCats, Codebreaker, Cloak, Uplink. 1 of each of those at PRO level totals 65 PG
Without Dropsuit Engineering skill your 3 PG over the Scout mk.0
You've got 1PG left to fit on a Scout ck.0
5 PG left on a Scout ak.0
and 10 PG left on a Scout gk.0
If you think the PG needs to be reduced on scouts you're an idiot or an *******. Wow, rage much? None of those modules bar cloak are scout modules. Keep defending a flexible do it all suit. by that logic no module can be classed any a module for any suit. scouts have the best hacking speed(making Codebreakers best on scouts), KinCat give the most benefit to scouts, and uplinks can be placed in the best spots faster with a scout. yes, proto uplinks may not be needed here, he is showing the pg issues, as that set up uses 4 of 11 slots.
Not sure who you are responding to. EWAR modules are scout modules. No other class would bother running them.
Codebreakers can be staked on logis
and kincats are used by all classes. Think of minmitar heavy.
All I see is allowing these modules to be fit so easily improves the Scout class to the point where we are in the situation now. |
xAckie
Ghost. Mob
433
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Posted - 2014.07.21 13:27:00 -
[9] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:@ Ackie
"Scouts should only be allowed to use is ewar modules; otherwise Dust is broken."
^ If this is your opinion, fine. It isn't an especially solid or well-formed opinion (in my opinion) but you're entitled to think whatever you want. Now, to push this opinion of yours onto others is an altogether separate matter. To pitch an opinion -- especially a bad one -- you're going to need a measure of sound reasoning. Let's have a look at the reasoning you've provided thus far ...
Reason 1) "Since ewar modules work best on Scouts, Scouts shouldn't be able to equip other modules."
Reason 2) "If another frame benefits from a module, Scouts should shouldn't be able to equip that module."
Reason 3) "Allowing Scouts to equip non-ewar modules creates balance problems ... because flexibility."
Read these out loud. Do you hear how they sound?
These aren't reasons. These aren't reasonable.
These do not constitute sound reasoning.
Do feel free to try again.
I think you are being a bit defensive. This is a forum. People post things.
The fact is the scout suit current flexibility means stacking other modules on the suit is to easy. There are no penalties only upsides. Reduction in PG is just one way to penalise these type of suit builds.
Adipem Nothi wrote:@ Ackie
"Scouts should only be allowed to use is ewar modules; otherwise Dust is broken."
I didn't actually say that (i dont think I did). What I did point out is that no other class uses EWAR modules. Because it isn't worth it. So there is already a form of 'fitting restriction'.
my reasons as I have pointed out repeatedly is that scouts have massive flexibility and upsides from speed, invisibility, dampening and range (both passive and module), squad scans, 2 equipment slots and so - without having to give anything up
If it isn't a PG reduction (which will hampen stacking) I dont see anyone in this thread coming up with any ideas to change the scout class from being able to do it all. I do not think the current buff to assaults will overcome the inherent benefits that scouts have. Thats my opinion. you dont have to like it. But your not admitting there is a problem.
Pretty sure CCP is thinking of going down the class route for Legion - I presume because it is easier to balance (even if imperfectly) |
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