ScP: Needs a little buff like Rof or Damage
SMG: Perfectly fine if anything needs to be done nerf range cuz range is the Magsec's thing
Flaylock: havent used enough to make a decision
Ion: Terribad gun something needs to be done about it
NK: All changes are good
Magsec: reduce kick
Bolt pistol: increase Rof and DPS
These are good changes

Buff ScP back to old levels.
Buff IoP to similar levels.
Lower BoP fitting Requirements. (6PG!)
Buff FlaP Coast Radius and Direct Damage. Possibly give it another round in the mag?

ScP: Needs a little buff like Rof or Damage
SMG: Perfectly fine if anything needs to be done nerf range cuz range is the Magsec's thing
Flaylock: havent used enough to make a decision
Ion: Terribad gun something needs to be done about it
NK: All changes are good
Magsec: reduce kick
Bolt pistol: increase Rof and DPS
These are good changes

those denying the effectiveness of the current ScP arer clearly Lazy.. It's a pistol dammit not a primary weapon

And that in no way justifies the nerf done to it.
The SMG could face down the Scrambler Pistol before.
Those two sidearms had been keeping each other in check since Closed Beta FFS...

Damn right people are denying it's current efffectiveness. More specifically, its efficiency.

And you call them "LAZY"? This is a game, FFS....!

Your weapon should be fun to use! Not be a chore! It should be fun, NOT a job.
Laziness has nothing to do with it. Ease of use and reliability is more important. Why should it be "work" to play with a gun in a video game?

When you die in combat, it should boil down to you simply 'getting got', not whether or not your damn weapon is even capable of putting a target down efficiently.

Every weapon in the game is "effective". But their are glaring disparities in the EFFICIENCY of the weapons in this game.

Projectile weapons are simply the most efficient. Period. It just so happens that projectile weapons are also the least frustrating to use. I have no complaints about the Combat Rifle; and the SMG is my favorite and more reliable sidearm, no matter what platform.

You can put an SMG on a heavy, on a scout, on an assault... and no matter what the situation, you can whip it out and put down. In a panic or not. Once upon a time, the same could be said about the scrambler pistol. Why should the SMG fitting cost be increased?

Why is it a problem if someone wants to run a secondary weapon as a primary? You can do that in almost any shooter. Some people like pistols more. Why can't they use a pistol as a primary and be efficient? They line up some shots on you and you die. Period. When did you having a bigger gun, entitle you to be immune to defeat to a smaller one? What did the ScP outdps so hard?

Why does everything that works half-decently have to be made HARDER to use? Can't anyone take their nose out of a spreadsheet for a minute and USE the damn guns?

There is almost no gun that sticks out as OP anymore (like the 1.0 TAR), and the little that's left (that everyone was fine with the whole time) we want to nerf?
That doesn't even compute.

[quote=Aeon Amadi]I have witnessed a tank kill with a flaylock, but I'd love to use my breach MD as a viable AV weapon for armor tanks compared to the PLC for shield tanks.

DO NOT IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM BUFF SCP BACK TO ANYTHING NEAR OLD LEVELS

those denying the effectiveness of the current ScP arer clearly Lazy.. It's a pistol dammit not a primary weapon

Scrambler Pistols are fine, they do not need a buff, but that doesn't mean that the SMG is balance either. We are not in the need for a 1500 dps pistol again. Also, to make every weapon easy to use in this game would take out the challenge of even using them. That would just make it bland.

'Those two sidearms had been keeping each other in check since Closed Beta...' well... considering that they were the only two sidearms other than the nova knives (which are a specialty weapon) and the flaylock, which is unviable, they were practically the only two sidearms in the game... so that point has no merit.

Now, the ScP is a frustrating mess of a weapon to use. It can't fire even after the firing animation is over. It oversamples for everyone but an arthritic amputee using his arm stubs to press the fire button (no offense to this kind of person, but that's about the only way you can't oversample this thing).

DO NOT IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM BUFF SCP BACK TO ANYTHING NEAR OLD LEVELS

those denying the effectiveness of the current ScP arer clearly Lazy.. It's a pistol dammit not a primary weapon

Scrambler Pistols are fine, they do not need a buff, but that doesn't mean that the SMG is balance either. We are not in the need for a 1500 dps pistol again. Also, to make every weapon easy to use in this game would take out the challenge of even using them. That would just make it bland.

'Those two sidearms had been keeping each other in check since Closed Beta...' well... considering that they were the only two sidearms other than the nova knives (which are a specialty weapon) and the flaylock, which is unviable, they were practically the only two sidearms in the game... so that point has no merit.

Fyi, I tried the bolt pistol, imho it needs more range before dropoff, maybe slightly higher fire rate.

It was 3000 DPS. The current ScP can get 1500 DPS, easily.

Scrambler Pistols are not fine. The SMG is fine (and always has been). Why is there always a group of people in Dust's playerbase that are determined to break something? 1500 dps, 2000, or whatever dps doesn't mean a damn thing if the players don't want to pick up the gun to begin with!
What the hell kind of logic revolves around making a gun hard to use? Thinking like that is why this game is in the hole. FFS.
The challenge in a multiplayer fps is supposed to come from other players, not your own damn gun. What purpose does it serve to have a bunch of players in a game with their own equipment working against them?

All this is boiling down to is people complaining about something killing them. Someone plays better than them, and they don't like it, but they refuse to admit it. So they blame the guns and run to CCP to nerf it. The superior players simply move on to another weapon and dominate again, and the sore losers will just keep blaming gun, ad infinitum.

ScP vs. SMG as a point has no merit? The point IS they don't keep each other in check anymore, as general purpose sidearms! The ScP, post nerf has the odds stacked against it vs. the SMG. This is not the SMG's fault.
Why not put the ScP back where it was before? It's not like anyone is gonna dominate all of PC using only scrambler pistols (unlike the Flaylock).
Then simply bump up the Ion Pistol to compete with it.
The ScP was never some slow shooting magnum-style gun. And leave the SMG alone! Its not like the SMG suddenly changed. Its ALWAYS worked the way it does, and there was no complaint.

Yeah defo. For an alpha damage weapon, its drop off is pretty weak.

Part of the problem is the oversampling mechanics. IMO, if you pull the trigger too early, it should wait until the next sampling time, then if you still had the button pressed, it would fire then, instead of 'well too early bad luck'.

I never saw the logic of calling the flay lock a skill shot weapon. Generally, area effect damage is anti ethical to the concept.

I consider the scram pistol to be a skill shot weapon, since it rewards accuracy so much more.

Add Proto breach Scrambler pistol and slightly buff ScP's in anyway that's seen fit and ill be happy

I never saw the logic of calling the flay lock a skill shot weapon. Generally, area effect damage is anti ethical to the concept.

I consider the scram pistol to be a skill shot weapon, since it rewards accuracy so much more.

It's a pistol dammit not a primary weapon

SMG is far to easy to equip as the goto weapon that does everything well.

We know that sidearms are planned for Delta (for now) so it's time to start talking about improvement=

1: What needs buffing.(opinion= all pistols, barring Amarr scrambler.)

2: Why does it need buffing? (Sees very little use outside and inside competitive play, very difficult to make work for the average player.)

3: What is fine as is? (Scrambler, [Nova knife after charlie?] does it's job well)

4:What else can be improved? (Proxi mines?)

For now I'm going to eat, then edit, but go ahead and start argui-err.......debating, getting started early is good.

Why not an increase of clip size on pistols per level ? and an extra like the dispersion for ion pistol, kick for rail, reload for amarr and the tradicional area increase for flaylock.
BTW... i bought lvl5 Magsec on an alt and the kick doesnt seem to be reduced and if it does is barely noticeable.

SMG is far to easy to equip as the goto weapon that does everything well.