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DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 419	Posted - 2014.07.11 20:25:00 - [1] - Quote lets get this done guys. assaults need help, and i dont think more slots or fitting bonuses are going to sell them as the slayers choices until they become significantly better than logis or scouts at slaying. the problem: logis have better slot layouts, more equipment slots and better fitting. assaults will need either base stats that compare favorably, and/or bonuses that are better than running a fully bricked tanked logi for slaying. scouts simply have it too good. they see all, can engage and disengage fights at will, have similar hp levels as assaults, can cloak and use one or both equipment slots to their advantage. Assault need to be better than these scouts. not an easy tanks when the scouts seem purpose built for slaying. assaults simply lack everything. the dont have the speed to get away from scouts, but they also dont have much in terms of defense or warning against them either. assault also dont have enough hp to fight heavies head on are too slow avoid them once they get in range. possible solutions: weapon bonuses that significantly enhance assault suits ability to kill. increased clip sizes, reload speeds, optimal ranges, reduced recoil, increased max ammo. these need to be assault suit bonuses. all of them at 5% per level defensive bonuses that allow us better survivablity on the front lines. increased scan range. increased regen. increased speed. racial bonuses that are game changing. the amarr heat bonus is great. a caldari bonus to charge up time would be nice. a gallente damage bonus, and the minmatar bonus could be extended to increase clip size and max ammo. my reasons for these suggestions are that assaults need to be better with weapon use than any other suit class. an across the board bonus to all common weapon stats achieves this. defensively, increased scan range gives assaults an early warning against heavy suits. we need to and should be able to see them coming. we need better speed to engage and disengage fights better, mainly the shield tankers as they dont have the hp for head on fights. lastly, we need better regen. shield tankers could do with higher shield recharge. gallente could use higher armor regen. amarr would get a resistance bonus, as it keeps with their lore as brick tankers. your thoughts guy? assaults need love. but we should be careful that we dont give them too much of anything where they step on the toes of the functional roles of other classes. like too much hp
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries 3218	Posted - 2014.07.11 20:32:00 - [2] - Quote The assault class should get the ROF bonus for all assault suits. Amarr - bonus to laser heat buildup Caldari - increase to shield regen per level. (let the bonus be one that makes sense for the suit and is useful). Gallente - increase to armor repair rate per level Minmatar - increase to number of bullets (same bonus it has now) Removed all hope with this post
Baal Omniscient Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 1940	Posted - 2014.07.11 22:29:00 - [3] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: The assault class should get the ROF bonus for all assault suits. Amarr - bonus to laser heat buildup Caldari - increase to shield regen per level. (let the bonus be one that makes sense for the suit and is useful). Gallente - increase to armor repair rate per level Minmatar - increase to number of bullets (same bonus it has now) These things will help assaults kill better, but it doesn't really put your slaying ability beyond an invisible scout with a shotty and a hitbox half your size and almost twice the strafe speed. I'm going to keep an eye on this thread though, I'm excited to see the ideas coalesce. Cross Atu for CPM1 Winmatar Assault, Proficiency 5 SMG's & Proficiency 5 Swarms Since Uprising 1.0
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2298	Posted - 2014.07.11 22:40:00 - [4] - Quote This actually started in a Logi discussion thread, but it involves Assaults as well. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/18i0Z93RGQbZD-_OMwXmYDJk4ORDBml5Xq_2k_4sF8UY/edit?usp=sharing Thoughts? Its a very rough, preliminary proposal but its a starting point to getting the ball rolling. Like my ideas? Pokey Dravon for CPM1
Baal Omniscient Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 1943	Posted - 2014.07.11 23:04:00 - [5] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: This actually started in a Logi discussion thread, but it involves Assaults as well. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/18i0Z93RGQbZD-_OMwXmYDJk4ORDBml5Xq_2k_4sF8UY/edit?usp=sharing Thoughts? Its a very rough, preliminary proposal but its a starting point to getting the ball rolling. Anything that directly affects damage output without sacrifice makes me nervous. Perhaps instead a bonus to damage modifiers would be better. That way you at least have to sac a bit of tank to gain your damage. Added bonus: Damage mods become useful again. Say.... 15% bump per level? This would, at max skill, put complex damage mods at 8.75% instead of the current 5%. It's less than the previous 10% but significantly higher than the current values. Thoughts? Cross Atu for CPM1 Winmatar Assault, Proficiency 5 SMG's & Proficiency 5 Swarms Since Uprising 1.0
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2299	Posted - 2014.07.11 23:06:00 - [6] - Quote Commandos have a damage bonus and that's not considered to be a problematic game mechanic. Like my ideas? Pokey Dravon for CPM1
Baal Omniscient Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 1943	Posted - 2014.07.11 23:08:00 - [7] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Commandos have a damage bonus and that's not considered to be a problematic game mechanic. EDIT: But to be fair I would prefer to see a move to make all suit bonuses affect a module rather than a base attribute. Again this is preliminary. Commandos also move and strafe much slower than assaults, as well as sharing the largest hitbox in the game with the other heavy suits. Cross Atu for CPM1 Winmatar Assault, Proficiency 5 SMG's & Proficiency 5 Swarms Since Uprising 1.0
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2299	Posted - 2014.07.11 23:19:00 - [8] - Quote Baal Omniscient wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Commandos have a damage bonus and that's not considered to be a problematic game mechanic. EDIT: But to be fair I would prefer to see a move to make all suit bonuses affect a module rather than a base attribute. Again this is preliminary. Commandos also move and strafe much slower than assaults, as well as sharing the largest hitbox in the game with the other heavy suits. Do you feel that the requirement to use damage mods for all races would make some suits less suited for the role, given a lack of high slots? Or Would that make them better because it doesn't cut into their main tanking rack? Like my ideas? Pokey Dravon for CPM1
Nocturnal Soul Immortal Retribution 3592	Posted - 2014.07.11 23:22:00 - [9] - Quote A rof won't help an Amarr assault so no Run, hide in fear while you can for the Amarr Scout is on the hunt! The eyes of God compelles you!!!
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 420	Posted - 2014.07.11 23:24:00 - [10] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Baal Omniscient wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Commandos have a damage bonus and that's not considered to be a problematic game mechanic. EDIT: But to be fair I would prefer to see a move to make all suit bonuses affect a module rather than a base attribute. Again this is preliminary. Commandos also move and strafe much slower than assaults, as well as sharing the largest hitbox in the game with the other heavy suits. Do you feel that the requirement to use damage mods for all races would make some suits less suited for the role, given a lack of high slots? Or Would that make them better because it doesn't cut into their main tanking rack? i cringe at the thought. shield tankers cant fit damage mods without severely gimpimg their tank. but if there was a damage mod that fit into an equipment slot...

Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2299	Posted - 2014.07.11 23:29:00 - [11] - Quote Plus I'd prefer to encourage the use of racial weapons to get the bonuses, so in a way you are sacrificing flexibility to gain damage on a specific race's weapon. Damage mods apply to all weapons and kinda screw certain suits out of proper fitting. Like my ideas? Pokey Dravon for CPM1
Baal Omniscient Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 1943	Posted - 2014.07.11 23:32:00 - [12] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Baal Omniscient wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Commandos have a damage bonus and that's not considered to be a problematic game mechanic. EDIT: But to be fair I would prefer to see a move to make all suit bonuses affect a module rather than a base attribute. Again this is preliminary. Commandos also move and strafe much slower than assaults, as well as sharing the largest hitbox in the game with the other heavy suits. Do you feel that the requirement to use damage mods for all races would make some suits less suited for the role, given a lack of high slots? Or Would that make them better because it doesn't cut into their main tanking rack? Since stacking more than 2 damage mods makes no sense, it's really not a bad deal for any of the suits compared to the others. Minmatar and Caldari lose primary tank in return for more damage, but they are meant to be more mobile suits and can recover their health more quickly unassisted. Also, by equipping a damage mod, they are also reducing their depleted recharge delay by replacing a shield extender. And since there is no primary tank loss for Amarr and Gallente it simply gives them another viable option other than additional eHP. No major losses on either side, and putting on more than one is pretty much gimping yourself anyway due to the stacking penalty. Also, that number is obviously up in the air. It could be increased to 20% (100% @ max putting it to 10%) so assaults could use the old bonus, making stacking 2 mods viable again. Cross Atu for CPM1 Winmatar Assault, Proficiency 5 SMG's & Proficiency 5 Swarms Since Uprising 1.0
Baal Omniscient Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 1943	Posted - 2014.07.11 23:41:00 - [13] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Plus I'd prefer to encourage the use of racial weapons to get the bonuses, so in a way you are sacrificing flexibility to gain damage on a specific race's weapon. Damage mods apply to all weapons and kinda screw certain suits out of proper fitting. I like promoting racial suits using their weapons, but every time I think of RoF or damage increases all I can picture is a shithead on a roof with a RR firing on everyone below with impunity. Like I said before, it makes me nervous. I wouldn't veto the entire sheet due to this one issue because it makes up for a lot, it's just a personal issue I have with directly adding damage output. Cross Atu for CPM1 Winmatar Assault, Proficiency 5 SMG's & Proficiency 5 Swarms Since Uprising 1.0
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 420	Posted - 2014.07.11 23:43:00 - [14] - Quote Baal Omniscient wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Baal Omniscient wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Commandos have a damage bonus and that's not considered to be a problematic game mechanic. EDIT: But to be fair I would prefer to see a move to make all suit bonuses affect a module rather than a base attribute. Again this is preliminary. Commandos also move and strafe much slower than assaults, as well as sharing the largest hitbox in the game with the other heavy suits. Do you feel that the requirement to use damage mods for all races would make some suits less suited for the role, given a lack of high slots? Or Would that make them better because it doesn't cut into their main tanking rack? Since stacking more than 2 damage mods makes no sense, it's really not a bad deal for any of the suits compared to the others. Minmatar and Caldari lose primary tank in return for more damage, but they are meant to be more mobile suits and can recover their health more quickly unassisted. Also, by equipping a damage mod, they are also reducing their depleted recharge delay by replacing a shield extender. And since there is no primary tank loss for Amarr and Gallente it simply gives them another viable option other than additional eHP. No major losses on either side, and putting on more than one is pretty much gimping yourself anyway due to the stacking penalty. Also, that number is obviously up in the air. It could be increased to 20% (100% @ max putting it to 10%) so assaults could use the old bonus, making stacking 2 mods viable again. i consider it a loss. i run caldari assault and my current experimental fit looks like this: 2 complex extenders 2 complex energizers 2 complex regulators 1 complex cpu mod the problem i find with shield tanking is that you simply cant fight head to head. you must invest in the recharge. simply stacking extenders isnt as viable as people think. you wont have the hp of armor tanked scout let alone an assault suit. so you cant fight them that way. we dont have shield reps. so theres no way to recover fight to fight as fast as a repped armor tanker can. we need our regen. that fit is about 87 shield hp/s and 377 shield hp. its enough to take a hit and get to cover. then return fire when your shields come back. losing either the extenders or the recharge would break the fit as you would have enough hp to take a hit from anything really, or not enough regen to engage multiple targets rapidly. shield tanking is tricky
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 420	Posted - 2014.07.11 23:45:00 - [15] - Quote Baal Omniscient wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Plus I'd prefer to encourage the use of racial weapons to get the bonuses, so in a way you are sacrificing flexibility to gain damage on a specific race's weapon. Damage mods apply to all weapons and kinda screw certain suits out of proper fitting. I like promoting racial suits using their weapons, but every time I think of RoF or damage increases all I can picture is a shithead on a roof with a RR firing on everyone below with impunity. Like I said before, it makes me nervous. I wouldn't veto the entire sheet due to this one issue because it makes up for a lot, it's just a personal issue I have with directly adding damage output. i agree with you. directly buffing damage output should be avoided. a final solution at best, and only to be visited when all other options have failed. we can be a bit more creative than that.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2300	Posted - 2014.07.11 23:58:00 - [16] - Quote Well at the same time the Assault is rather lacking in anything that makes it unique, so damage output should be a priority. Im not dead set on either, I understand the concern completely though. So if we have say 10% bonus 1st damage mod increases damage to 15% 2nd is like 19%-ish If we say doubled damage mods (Which is probably excessive) 1st 10% 2nd 18%-ish So basically stacking mods is about the same either way at least for the first 2, but I really do worry this favors armor tanks too much, especially since a bonus to mods would make stacking more a lot more beneficial, plus it doesnt encourage racial matching as much. I dunno man, I'm on the fence on this one but I'm leaning more towards flat bonus at this rate. Like my ideas? Pokey Dravon for CPM1
Baal Omniscient Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 1943	Posted - 2014.07.12 00:01:00 - [17] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: Baal Omniscient wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Baal Omniscient wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Commandos have a damage bonus and that's not considered to be a problematic game mechanic. EDIT: But to be fair I would prefer to see a move to make all suit bonuses affect a module rather than a base attribute. Again this is preliminary. Commandos also move and strafe much slower than assaults, as well as sharing the largest hitbox in the game with the other heavy suits. Do you feel that the requirement to use damage mods for all races would make some suits less suited for the role, given a lack of high slots? Or Would that make them better because it doesn't cut into their main tanking rack? Since stacking more than 2 damage mods makes no sense, it's really not a bad deal for any of the suits compared to the others. Minmatar and Caldari lose primary tank in return for more damage, but they are meant to be more mobile suits and can recover their health more quickly unassisted. Also, by equipping a damage mod, they are also reducing their depleted recharge delay by replacing a shield extender. And since there is no primary tank loss for Amarr and Gallente it simply gives them another viable option other than additional eHP. No major losses on either side, and putting on more than one is pretty much gimping yourself anyway due to the stacking penalty. Also, that number is obviously up in the air. It could be increased to 20% (100% @ max putting it to 10%) so assaults could use the old bonus, making stacking 2 mods viable again. i consider it a loss. i run caldari assault and my current experimental fit looks like this: 2 complex extenders 2 complex energizers 2 complex regulators 1 complex cpu mod the problem i find with shield tanking is that you simply cant fight head to head. you must invest in the recharge. simply stacking extenders isnt as viable as people think. you wont have the hp of armor tanked scout let alone an assault suit. so you cant fight them that way. we dont have shield reps. so theres no way to recover fight to fight as fast as a repped armor tanker can. we need our regen. that fit is about 87 shield hp/s and 377 shield hp. its enough to take a hit and get to cover. then return fire when your shields come back. losing either the extenders or the recharge would break the fit as you would have enough hp to take a hit from anything really, or not enough regen to engage multiple targets rapidly. shield tanking is tricky For me in my Minassault, I run 3 pro shields, a basic energizer and a basic recharger (avoids the stacking penalty), and if I'm going for up-close fights I toss on a complex reactive and ferroscale. If I'm using my burst, I run a shield regulator and a kinkat. I have less tank, less regen and more delays to my shields unfortunately.... Also, I still think regen needs to be looked into closer. Shield regen/delays getting directly buffed makes a lot of sense for the shield side of assault buffs. As for the Amarr/Gallente parallel? .....Give them a flat bonus to the reps and eHP from plates and repping mods? Cross Atu for CPM1 Winmatar Assault, Proficiency 5 SMG's & Proficiency 5 Swarms Since Uprising 1.0
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2300	Posted - 2014.07.12 00:02:00 - [18] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: Baal Omniscient wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Plus I'd prefer to encourage the use of racial weapons to get the bonuses, so in a way you are sacrificing flexibility to gain damage on a specific race's weapon. Damage mods apply to all weapons and kinda screw certain suits out of proper fitting. I like promoting racial suits using their weapons, but every time I think of RoF or damage increases all I can picture is a shithead on a roof with a RR firing on everyone below with impunity. Like I said before, it makes me nervous. I wouldn't veto the entire sheet due to this one issue because it makes up for a lot, it's just a personal issue I have with directly adding damage output. i agree with you. directly buffing damage output should be avoided. a final solution at best, and only to be visited when all other options have failed. we can be a bit more creative than that. Fair enough. I'll pen it in as an alternative for now. That being said, what do you feel would be an appropriate Lvl 5 bonus to the damage mod, while avoiding the issues we had before with TTK being waaay too short? Like my ideas? Pokey Dravon for CPM1
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2300	Posted - 2014.07.12 00:06:00 - [19] - Quote Baal Omniscient wrote: For me in my Minassault, I run 3 pro shields, a basic energizer and a basic recharger (avoids the stacking penalty), and if I'm going for up-close fights I toss on a complex reactive and ferroscale. If I'm using my burst, I run a shield regulator and a kinkat. I have less tank, less regen and more delays to my shields unfortunately.... Also, I still think regen needs to be looked into closer. Shield regen/delays getting directly buffed makes a lot of sense for the shield side of assault buffs. As for the Amarr/Gallente parallel? .....Give them a flat bonus to the reps and eHP from plates and repping mods? Flat bonus to reps, as in a +HP/second built into the suit? Also I specifically avoided boosting the eHP of the Amarr on purpose, as a I feel it would quickly become too strong against the others. Its true that their theme is brick tanking, but I really wanted to keep away from boosting the eHP of one racial variant but not the others. Like my ideas? Pokey Dravon for CPM1
Baal Omniscient Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 1943	Posted - 2014.07.12 00:09:00 - [20] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Well at the same time the Assault is rather lacking in anything that makes it unique, so damage output should be a priority. Im not dead set on either, I understand the concern completely though. So if we have say 10% bonus 1st damage mod increases damage to 15% 2nd is like 19%-ish If we say doubled damage mods (Which is probably excessive) 1st 10% 2nd 18%-ish So basically stacking mods is about the same either way at least for the first 2, but I really do worry this favors armor tanks too much, especially since a bonus to mods would make stacking more a lot more beneficial, plus it doesnt encourage racial matching as much. I dunno man, I'm on the fence on this one but I'm leaning more towards flat bonus at this rate. I would much rather assaults to have better regen stats so they can move with the fight better. If a damage bonus is the way it goes, it will be hard to keep the balance among weapons (and to maintain a stable TTK). Cross Atu for CPM1 Winmatar Assault, Proficiency 5 SMG's & Proficiency 5 Swarms Since Uprising 1.0

DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 420	Posted - 2014.07.12 00:09:00 - [21] - Quote a general purpose reduction to weapon fitting costs, and a increase to light weapon fitting costs (its been mentioned elsewhere) then an offensive assault bonus: +1 grenade capacity for all suits. 5% per level to clip size, max ammo, reduced recoil, reload speed. amarr and minmatar keep their current bonuses gallente and caldari need something better though. honestly i think a damage bonus for the gallente would be fine, and a charge up time reduction for the caldari would be great. and a racial defensive bonus amarr: 5% per level to armor plate efficiency gallente: 5% per level to armor repair efficiency caldari: 5% per level to shield module efficiency minmatar; 3% per level armor and shield efficiency. someone else had posted about gallente getting a bonus to both armor reps, and reactive plates. and some feel that caldari should focus on shield extenders while minmatar should focus on shield regulators. i dont how i feel about that though. i feel shield tanking purely a caldari thing and they should get a bonus to all shield modules. thats just me though
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 33	Posted - 2014.07.12 00:11:00 - [22] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: a general purpose reduction to weapon fitting costs, and a increase to light weapon fitting costs (its been mentioned elsewhere) then an offensive assault bonus: +1 grenade capacity for all suits. 5% per level to clip size, max ammo, reduced recoil, reload speed. amarr and minmatar keep their current bonuses gallente and caldari need something better though. honestly i think a damage bonus for the gallente would be fine, and a charge up time reduction for the caldari would be great. and a racial defensive bonus amarr: 5% per level to armor plate efficiency gallente: 5% per level to armor repair efficiency caldari: 5% per level to shield module efficiency minmatar; 3% per level armor and shield efficiency. someone else had posted about gallente getting a bonus to both armor reps, and reactive plates. and some feel that caldari should focus on shield extenders while minmatar should focus on shield regulators. i dont how i feel about that though. i feel shield tanking purely a caldari thing and they should get a bonus to all shield modules. thats just me though Grenade capacity is baad bonus If ylu fit an equipment or sidearm you can't fit crap on an assault suit. Max level brony. My special magic is trolling.
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 420	Posted - 2014.07.12 00:16:00 - [23] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: Baal Omniscient wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Plus I'd prefer to encourage the use of racial weapons to get the bonuses, so in a way you are sacrificing flexibility to gain damage on a specific race's weapon. Damage mods apply to all weapons and kinda screw certain suits out of proper fitting. I like promoting racial suits using their weapons, but every time I think of RoF or damage increases all I can picture is a shithead on a roof with a RR firing on everyone below with impunity. Like I said before, it makes me nervous. I wouldn't veto the entire sheet due to this one issue because it makes up for a lot, it's just a personal issue I have with directly adding damage output. i agree with you. directly buffing damage output should be avoided. a final solution at best, and only to be visited when all other options have failed. we can be a bit more creative than that. Fair enough. I'll pen it in as an alternative for now. That being said, what do you feel would be an appropriate Lvl 5 bonus to the damage mod, while avoiding the issues we had before with TTK being waaay too short? only way to avoid the TTk issue is to not touch the damage or rof anything really. pretend its not option at all for now. wait a few days and see what people come up with.
Baal Omniscient Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 1943	Posted - 2014.07.12 00:17:00 - [24] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Baal Omniscient wrote: For me in my Minassault, I run 3 pro shields, a basic energizer and a basic recharger (avoids the stacking penalty), and if I'm going for up-close fights I toss on a complex reactive and ferroscale. If I'm using my burst, I run a shield regulator and a kinkat. I have less tank, less regen and more delays to my shields unfortunately.... Also, I still think regen needs to be looked into closer. Shield regen/delays getting directly buffed makes a lot of sense for the shield side of assault buffs. As for the Amarr/Gallente parallel? .....Give them a flat bonus to the reps and eHP from plates and repping mods? Flat bonus to reps, as in a +HP/second built into the suit? Also I specifically avoided boosting the eHP of the Amarr on purpose, as a I feel it would quickly become too strong against the others. Its true that their theme is brick tanking, but I really wanted to keep away from boosting the eHP of one racial variant but not the others. As long as CR's and RR's remain the most popular rifles, I don't think that's TOO likely... but it is a possibility.... Flat bonus to repair modules, not to the suits themselves. Though I'm not opposed to it. In fact, all assaults having a base armor repair rate is a nice idea. It was spectacular just having 1hp/sec on the Minmatar assault. Possibly give the armor races a x% speed penalty reduction for plates instead of an HP bump. I apologize if my writing is hard to follow, not feeling so hot today. Cross Atu for CPM1 Winmatar Assault, Proficiency 5 SMG's & Proficiency 5 Swarms Since Uprising 1.0
Baal Omniscient Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 1943	Posted - 2014.07.12 00:23:00 - [25] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: a general purpose reduction to weapon fitting costs, and a increase to light weapon fitting costs (its been mentioned elsewhere) then an offensive assault bonus: +1 grenade capacity for all suits. 5% per level to clip size, max ammo, reduced recoil, reload speed. amarr and minmatar keep their current bonuses gallente and caldari need something better though. honestly i think a damage bonus for the gallente would be fine, and a charge up time reduction for the caldari would be great. and a racial defensive bonus amarr: 5% per level to armor plate efficiency gallente: 5% per level to armor repair efficiency caldari: 5% per level to shield module efficiency minmatar; 3% per level armor and shield efficiency. someone else had posted about gallente getting a bonus to both armor reps, and reactive plates. and some feel that caldari should focus on shield extenders while minmatar should focus on shield regulators. i dont how i feel about that though. i feel shield tanking purely a caldari thing and they should get a bonus to all shield modules. thats just me though I actually think the layouts need to be swapped for the Minmatar and Caldari suits so the Caldari can properly shield tank and the Minmatar can run proper lows (kincats, regs, whathaveyou) It's hard to be the versatile race with only 2 slots available to use for the modules that mean the most to versatility. Cross Atu for CPM1 Winmatar Assault, Proficiency 5 SMG's & Proficiency 5 Swarms Since Uprising 1.0
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 420	Posted - 2014.07.12 00:27:00 - [26] - Quote Baal Omniscient wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Baal Omniscient wrote: For me in my Minassault, I run 3 pro shields, a basic energizer and a basic recharger (avoids the stacking penalty), and if I'm going for up-close fights I toss on a complex reactive and ferroscale. If I'm using my burst, I run a shield regulator and a kinkat. I have less tank, less regen and more delays to my shields unfortunately.... Also, I still think regen needs to be looked into closer. Shield regen/delays getting directly buffed makes a lot of sense for the shield side of assault buffs. As for the Amarr/Gallente parallel? .....Give them a flat bonus to the reps and eHP from plates and repping mods? Flat bonus to reps, as in a +HP/second built into the suit? Also I specifically avoided boosting the eHP of the Amarr on purpose, as a I feel it would quickly become too strong against the others. Its true that their theme is brick tanking, but I really wanted to keep away from boosting the eHP of one racial variant but not the others. As long as CR's and RR's remain the most popular rifles, I don't think that's TOO likely... but it is a possibility.... Flat bonus to repair modules, not to the suits themselves. Though I'm not opposed to it. In fact, all assaults having a base armor repair rate is a nice idea. It was spectacular just having 1hp/sec on the Minmatar assault. Possibly give the armor races a x% speed penalty reduction for plates instead of an HP bump. I apologize if my writing is hard to follow, not feeling so hot today. i dont think amarr need the regen lol. they really are overpowering (not op, just super strong) in combat. bumping their efficiency with plates would be fine imo. for all other assaults though, they need regen. a built in complex repper for gallente and bump the base stat recharge for caldari and minmatar. 40hp/s for caldari and 30 or 35hp/s for minmatar. maybe shave a second off the base delays for caldari and minmatar as well.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2300	Posted - 2014.07.12 00:33:00 - [27] - Quote Well the concept I was going for was mostly to give each frame its own general form of tanking. Heavies get Buffer Medium get Active (regeneration) Lights get Speed Amarr Assaults/Logi's of course don't really fit this mold, however I wanted to shy away from giving them straight up more eHP. The reason being that the Amarr typically have the highest base eHP, with an emphasis on low lots but also high slots to work with. The natural choice is to stick a ton of plates in the low to take advantage of the armor plate bonus, then stack damage mods in the high to take advantage of the damage mod bonus. So now you have a suit with more eHP than any other Assault by a long shot, and able to stack damage without any sacrifice to tank. Amarr Assault would instantly be the preferred Assault suit for superior defenses and damage output. That's basically why I avoided both of those bonuses. So lets assume we wont directly buff damage, what sort of things would you think would give the Assault that sense of uniqueness that it currently lacks? It needs to be something that is difficult or impossible for other suits to replicate. The Cloak on a scout would be a good example. You'll notice in my spreadsheet that I mention a bonus to grenades. This opens up a lot of flexibility for Assaults as it would make AV grenades terrifying, but also allow them to make use of anti-infantry possibilities. This would parralel a bonus Logistics would get to Remotes and Proxies, an idea that is being well received over in the Logistic's camp. Take a look and give me your thoughts. Like my ideas? Pokey Dravon for CPM1
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 420	Posted - 2014.07.12 00:36:00 - [28] - Quote Baal Omniscient wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: a general purpose reduction to weapon fitting costs, and a increase to light weapon fitting costs (its been mentioned elsewhere) then an offensive assault bonus: +1 grenade capacity for all suits. 5% per level to clip size, max ammo, reduced recoil, reload speed. amarr and minmatar keep their current bonuses gallente and caldari need something better though. honestly i think a damage bonus for the gallente would be fine, and a charge up time reduction for the caldari would be great. and a racial defensive bonus amarr: 5% per level to armor plate efficiency gallente: 5% per level to armor repair efficiency caldari: 5% per level to shield module efficiency minmatar; 3% per level armor and shield efficiency. someone else had posted about gallente getting a bonus to both armor reps, and reactive plates. and some feel that caldari should focus on shield extenders while minmatar should focus on shield regulators. i dont how i feel about that though. i feel shield tanking purely a caldari thing and they should get a bonus to all shield modules. thats just me though I actually think the layouts need to be swapped for the Minmatar and Caldari suits so the Caldari can properly shield tank and the Minmatar can run proper lows (kincats, regs, whathaveyou) It's hard to be the versatile race with only 2 slots available to use for the modules that mean the most to versatility. jesus no lol. for some reason the minmatar have more cpu than the caldari, but it seems to be making up for not having that 3rd low. i need the 3rd low on the caldari for a cpu mod. maybe we can get this fixed. 5 highs and two lows for caldari, but i'd need waaayy more cpu and a reduction to shield delays to make up for this. basically i need a 2 second shield delay, and i can only get it currently when using 2 regulators. and because the rechargers and energizers are so cpu intensive, i need a cpu mod. drop the base shield delays even lower so i can get a 2 second delay (or lower lol) with only one regulator so i can use the 2nd low for a cpu mod then we could swap layouts
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 420	Posted - 2014.07.12 00:44:00 - [29] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Well the concept I was going for was mostly to give each frame its own general form of tanking. Heavies get Buffer Medium get Active (regeneration) Lights get Speed Amarr Assaults/Logi's of course don't really fit this mold, however I wanted to shy away from giving them straight up more eHP. The reason being that the Amarr typically have the highest base eHP, with an emphasis on low lots but also high slots to work with. The natural choice is to stick a ton of plates in the low to take advantage of the armor plate bonus, then stack damage mods in the high to take advantage of the damage mod bonus. So now you have a suit with more eHP than any other Assault by a long shot, and able to stack damage without any sacrifice to tank. Amarr Assault would instantly be the preferred Assault suit for superior defenses and damage output. That's basically why I avoided both of those bonuses. So lets assume we wont directly buff damage, what sort of things would you think would give the Assault that sense of uniqueness that it currently lacks? It needs to be something that is difficult or impossible for other suits to replicate. The Cloak on a scout would be a good example. You'll notice in my spreadsheet that I mention a bonus to grenades. This opens up a lot of flexibility for Assaults as it would make AV grenades terrifying, but also allow them to make use of anti-infantry possibilities. This would parralel a bonus Logistics would get to Remotes and Proxies, an idea that is being well received over in the Logistic's camp. Take a look and give me your thoughts. i read a couple times and i like it, minus the damage bonuses. increased grenade capacity would be cool. here something else... what if assaults had regenerating ammo? a crazy idea i know lol, but why not?
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries 3229	Posted - 2014.07.12 01:03:00 - [30] - Quote Baal Omniscient wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: The assault class should get the ROF bonus for all assault suits. Amarr - bonus to laser heat buildup Caldari - increase to shield regen per level. (let the bonus be one that makes sense for the suit and is useful). Gallente - increase to armor repair rate per level Minmatar - increase to number of bullets (same bonus it has now) These things will help assaults kill better, but it doesn't really put your slaying ability beyond an invisible scout with a shotty and a hitbox half your size and almost twice the strafe speed. I'm going to keep an eye on this thread though, I'm excited to see the ideas coalesce. An increase in ROF will definitely see a movement back to assaults, at least for me. Removed all hope with this post

trollface dot jpg The Bacon Corporation 208	Posted - 2014.07.12 01:13:00 - [31] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Baal Omniscient wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: The assault class should get the ROF bonus for all assault suits. Amarr - bonus to laser heat buildup Caldari - increase to shield regen per level. (let the bonus be one that makes sense for the suit and is useful). Gallente - increase to armor repair rate per level Minmatar - increase to number of bullets (same bonus it has now) These things will help assaults kill better, but it doesn't really put your slaying ability beyond an invisible scout with a shotty and a hitbox half your size and almost twice the strafe speed. I'm going to keep an eye on this thread though, I'm excited to see the ideas coalesce. An increase in ROF will definitely see a movement back to assaults, at least for me. It would, but for the wrong reasons. The goal is to balance the class, not make it the next FotM by breaking TTK. I'd love to fire my RR as fast as an AR, but that's not going to generate balance. RIP MAG, you will be missed. MAG Vet ~ Raven
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2301	Posted - 2014.07.12 01:21:00 - [32] - Quote Rate of fire modification is bad. The game uses rate of fire to determine a pseudo minimum range to weapons. Low rate of fire is poor at short range, this mechanic is part of what makes the Rail Rifle perform badly in CQC. Increasing the fire rate for weapons would completely throw this mechanic off and make weapons perform too well in ranges that it shouldn't. Regeneration of Ammo devalues an important role that Logistics perform, and I dont think it really adds much to offense in the way that Assaults should. Its an interesting idea, but I don't think it's good for this application. Like my ideas? Pokey Dravon for CPM1
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 421	Posted - 2014.07.12 01:35:00 - [33] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: Rate of fire modification is bad. The game uses rate of fire to determine a pseudo minimum range to weapons. Low rate of fire is poor at short range, this mechanic is part of what makes the Rail Rifle perform badly in CQC. Increasing the fire rate for weapons would completely throw this mechanic off and make weapons perform too well in ranges that it shouldn't. Regeneration of Ammo devalues an important role that Logistics perform, and I dont think it really adds much to offense in the way that Assaults should. Its an interesting idea, but I don't think it's good for this application. when i run ambushes, i never see anyone drop hives. either because they get used up too fast, fluxed, or the guy dies too fast and never gets to use it. when i run out of ammo, i spend whole matches looking for hives. im not saying ammo regen at hive levels but itd be nice in the same way the 1hp/s was great on min assault when it had it. it also gives it something no other suit gets. 1-5 ammo a second? slow enough that logis are still useful, but enough for an assault with no support, to stay in the fight.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2301	Posted - 2014.07.12 01:44:00 - [34] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Rate of fire modification is bad. The game uses rate of fire to determine a pseudo minimum range to weapons. Low rate of fire is poor at short range, this mechanic is part of what makes the Rail Rifle perform badly in CQC. Increasing the fire rate for weapons would completely throw this mechanic off and make weapons perform too well in ranges that it shouldn't. Regeneration of Ammo devalues an important role that Logistics perform, and I dont think it really adds much to offense in the way that Assaults should. Its an interesting idea, but I don't think it's good for this application. when i run ambushes, i never see anyone drop hives. either because they get used up too fast, fluxed, or the guy dies too fast and never gets to use it. when i run out of ammo, i spend whole matches looking for hives. im not saying ammo regen at hive levels but itd be nice in the same way the 1hp/s was great on min assault when it had it. it also gives it something no other suit gets. 1-5 ammo a second? slow enough that logis are still useful, but enough for an assault with no support, to stay in the fight. EDIT: why dont i use hives? because i find injectors more useful. like i said, i could die before i need to use a hive, but an injector is always in demand lol I get your reasoning I just don't think its a suitable bonus for Assaults. Difference of opinion Like my ideas? Pokey Dravon for CPM1
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries 3230	Posted - 2014.07.12 01:56:00 - [35] - Quote trollface dot jpg wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Baal Omniscient wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: The assault class should get the ROF bonus for all assault suits. Amarr - bonus to laser heat buildup Caldari - increase to shield regen per level. (let the bonus be one that makes sense for the suit and is useful). Gallente - increase to armor repair rate per level Minmatar - increase to number of bullets (same bonus it has now) These things will help assaults kill better, but it doesn't really put your slaying ability beyond an invisible scout with a shotty and a hitbox half your size and almost twice the strafe speed. I'm going to keep an eye on this thread though, I'm excited to see the ideas coalesce. An increase in ROF will definitely see a movement back to assaults, at least for me. It would, but for the wrong reasons. The goal is to balance the class, not make it the next FotM by breaking TTK. I'd love to fire my RR as fast as an AR, but that's not going to generate balance. Useful = FOTM in Dust. Removed all hope with this post
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 423	Posted - 2014.07.12 04:11:00 - [36] - Quote Baal Omniscient wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: a general purpose reduction to weapon fitting costs, and a increase to light weapon fitting costs (its been mentioned elsewhere) then an offensive assault bonus: +1 grenade capacity for all suits. 5% per level to clip size, max ammo, reduced recoil, reload speed. amarr and minmatar keep their current bonuses gallente and caldari need something better though. honestly i think a damage bonus for the gallente would be fine, and a charge up time reduction for the caldari would be great. and a racial defensive bonus amarr: 5% per level to armor plate efficiency gallente: 5% per level to armor repair efficiency caldari: 5% per level to shield module efficiency minmatar; 3% per level armor and shield efficiency. someone else had posted about gallente getting a bonus to both armor reps, and reactive plates. and some feel that caldari should focus on shield extenders while minmatar should focus on shield regulators. i dont how i feel about that though. i feel shield tanking purely a caldari thing and they should get a bonus to all shield modules. thats just me though I actually think the layouts need to be swapped for the Minmatar and Caldari suits so the Caldari can properly shield tank and the Minmatar can run proper lows (kincats, regs, whathaveyou) It's hard to be the versatile race with only 2 slots available to use for the modules that mean the most to versatility. swap slots. but then reduce the caldari shield delay to 4 seconds. THEN give a 5% per level to cal assault as their assault bonus. yes
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 35	Posted - 2014.07.12 04:25:00 - [37] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: Baal Omniscient wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: a general purpose reduction to weapon fitting costs, and a increase to light weapon fitting costs (its been mentioned elsewhere) then an offensive assault bonus: +1 grenade capacity for all suits. 5% per level to clip size, max ammo, reduced recoil, reload speed. amarr and minmatar keep their current bonuses gallente and caldari need something better though. honestly i think a damage bonus for the gallente would be fine, and a charge up time reduction for the caldari would be great. and a racial defensive bonus amarr: 5% per level to armor plate efficiency gallente: 5% per level to armor repair efficiency caldari: 5% per level to shield module efficiency minmatar; 3% per level armor and shield efficiency. someone else had posted about gallente getting a bonus to both armor reps, and reactive plates. and some feel that caldari should focus on shield extenders while minmatar should focus on shield regulators. i dont how i feel about that though. i feel shield tanking purely a caldari thing and they should get a bonus to all shield modules. thats just me though I actually think the layouts need to be swapped for the Minmatar and Caldari suits so the Caldari can properly shield tank and the Minmatar can run proper lows (kincats, regs, whathaveyou) It's hard to be the versatile race with only 2 slots available to use for the modules that mean the most to versatility. swap slots. but then reduce the caldari shield delay to 4 seconds. THEN give a 5% per level to cal assault as their assault bonus. yes Regardless, cal assault needs its base delay cut, and base recharge rate to at least 45 hp/s or 50 hp/s with an additional high slot. Max level brony. My special magic is trolling.
The Eristic Dust 90210 560	Posted - 2014.07.12 05:54:00 - [38] - Quote I like the light weapon fitting bonus we have, honestly. Really helps fitting Scramblers, Lasers, Plasma Cannons. I don't think a ROF bonus would work as an overall Assault bonus, but it might be a nice one for the GalAss. Would need to crunch the numbers, but I don't think it would break the AR. Gal 3-4 Proto, 2% per level RoF bonus to Plasma weapons, 5-7% per level to Armor Rep efficacy Amarr 2-5 Proto, 5% reduction to Laser heat build up, 2 or 3% per level to Armor Plate efficacy OR x% reduction to Armor Plate speed penalty Caldari 5-2 Proto, 5-7% increased zoom fidelity on Rail weapons OR 5% less charge up time (though that does affect most snipers and RR charge would need to be increased for it to even be noticeable), 5% efficacy to all shield modules (or maybe just extenders and regs?) Minmatar 4-3 Proto, 5% Projectile Clip Size (I'd possibly think about the explosive clip buff again, too, but maybe at .6 rounds/level, so it gains 3 at V), maybe 5% to all biotics modules OR 5-7% to all regen modules I also agree that both Min and Cal need their shield regen rates and delays buffed, though, before any bonuses. Amarr and Gal are almost there, imo. Better bonus would go a long way for the Gal, plus maybe a touch more PG. Reality is the original Rorschach. Verily! So much for all that.
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 423	Posted - 2014.07.12 13:47:00 - [39] - Quote The Eristic wrote: I like the light weapon fitting bonus we have, honestly. Really helps fitting Scramblers, Lasers, Plasma Cannons. I don't think a ROF bonus would work as an overall Assault bonus, but it might be a nice one for the GalAss. Would need to crunch the numbers, but I don't think it would break the AR. Gal 3-4 Proto, 2% per level RoF bonus to Plasma weapons, 5-7% per level to Armor Rep efficacy Amarr 2-5 Proto, 5% reduction to Laser heat build up, 2 or 3% per level to Armor Plate efficacy OR x% reduction to Armor Plate speed penalty Caldari 5-2 Proto, 5-7% increased zoom fidelity on Rail weapons OR 5% less charge up time (though that does affect most snipers and RR charge would need to be increased for it to even be noticeable), 5% efficacy to all shield modules (or maybe just extenders and regs?) Minmatar 4-3 Proto, 5% Projectile Clip Size (I'd possibly think about the explosive clip buff again, too, but maybe at .6 rounds/level, so it gains 3 at V), maybe 5% to all biotics modules OR 5-7% to all regen modules I also agree that both Min and Cal need their shield regen rates and delays buffed, though, before any bonuses. Amarr and Gal are almost there, imo. Better bonus would go a long way for the Gal, plus maybe a touch more PG. 5% reduction to charge up time would be sick. it would buff : bolt pistol (this is a dps increase of 25% at lvl 5) magsec rail rifle nova knives charge sniper rifle. id love that bonus. and id also love to get that 5% per level to shield module efficiency too. though ill warn everyone now... i crunched the numbers last night. a cal assault with a 5/2 layout and those bonuses would look like this: 3 complex extenders 2 complex energizers 1 complex regulator 1 complex cpu mod just over 500 shield hp 105 hp/s recharge 2.08 shield delay and you get a proto light weapon, sidearm, and either grenades or equipment.. with all extenders youd have almost 700 shields lol. so idk if that should become a thing
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 35	Posted - 2014.07.12 14:01:00 - [40] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: The Eristic wrote: I like the light weapon fitting bonus we have, honestly. Really helps fitting Scramblers, Lasers, Plasma Cannons. I don't think a ROF bonus would work as an overall Assault bonus, but it might be a nice one for the GalAss. Would need to crunch the numbers, but I don't think it would break the AR. Gal 3-4 Proto, 2% per level RoF bonus to Plasma weapons, 5-7% per level to Armor Rep efficacy Amarr 2-5 Proto, 5% reduction to Laser heat build up, 2 or 3% per level to Armor Plate efficacy OR x% reduction to Armor Plate speed penalty Caldari 5-2 Proto, 5-7% increased zoom fidelity on Rail weapons OR 5% less charge up time (though that does affect most snipers and RR charge would need to be increased for it to even be noticeable), 5% efficacy to all shield modules (or maybe just extenders and regs?) Minmatar 4-3 Proto, 5% Projectile Clip Size (I'd possibly think about the explosive clip buff again, too, but maybe at .6 rounds/level, so it gains 3 at V), maybe 5% to all biotics modules OR 5-7% to all regen modules I also agree that both Min and Cal need their shield regen rates and delays buffed, though, before any bonuses. Amarr and Gal are almost there, imo. Better bonus would go a long way for the Gal, plus maybe a touch more PG. 5% reduction to charge up time would be completely and utterly ******** with a dash of retardation with a cherry on top. it would buff : bolt pistol (this is a dps increase of 25% at lvl 5) magsec rail rifle nova knives charge sniper rifle. id love that bonus. and id also love to get that 5% per level to shield module efficiency too. though ill warn everyone now... i crunched the numbers last night. a cal assault with a 5/2 layout and those bonuses would look like this: 3 complex extenders 2 complex energizers 1 complex regulator 1 complex cpu mod just over 500 shield hp 105 hp/s recharge 2.08 shield delay and you get a proto light weapon, sidearm, and either grenades or equipment.. with all extenders youd have almost 700 shields lol. so idk if that should become a thing Fixed. Max level brony. My special magic is trolling.

DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 424	Posted - 2014.07.12 16:22:00 - [41] - Quote so are we looking more towards: 1. better regen for assaults 2. a review of slot layouts 3. bonuses that enhance the "feel" of weapons without necessarily increasing their damage output 4. better racial bonuses for gallente and caldari so far these are the things that have come up generally
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries 3235	Posted - 2014.07.12 23:05:00 - [42] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: The assault class should get the ROF bonus for all assault suits. Amarr - bonus to laser heat buildup Caldari - increase to shield regen per level. (let the bonus be one that makes sense for the suit and is useful). Gallente - increase to armor repair rate per level Minmatar - increase to number of bullets (same bonus it has now) Removed all hope with this post
Baal Omniscient Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 1945	Posted - 2014.07.13 06:38:00 - [43] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: so are we looking more towards: 1. better regen for assaults 2. a review of slot layouts 3. bonuses that enhance the "feel" of weapons without necessarily increasing their damage output 4. better racial bonuses for gallente and caldari so far these are the things that have come up generally Been drinking non-stop for far too many hours, write something on this tomorrow..... .....bump Cross Atu for CPM1 Winmatar Assault, Proficiency 5 SMG's & Proficiency 5 Swarms Since Uprising 1.0
idlerowl Old-Type 2	Posted - 2014.07.13 08:37:00 - [44] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: This actually started in a Logi discussion thread, but it involves Assaults as well. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/18i0Z93RGQbZD-_OMwXmYDJk4ORDBml5Xq_2k_4sF8UY/edit?usp=sharing Thoughts? Its a very rough, preliminary proposal but its a starting point to getting the ball rolling. =============== that sheet looks like good as I thought Caldari -increase shield recharge and Energizers ( or Rise in the recovery amount of the base shield. 40-45 if possible) That's attractive thisn+ê Reduction to Caldari Weapon Charge Timen+ë Gallente - increase base armor and Reduction to Gallente Weapon DispursionpÇÇper LV Minmatar - increase to number of bullets (same bonus it has now) and Armor Plate Speed Penalty Amarr - bonus to laser heat buildup and Repair Rate of Armor Repairers (or amarr weapons charge time faster) ===============
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 429	Posted - 2014.07.13 15:39:00 - [45] - Quote Pokey Dravon wrote: This actually started in a Logi discussion thread, but it involves Assaults as well. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/18i0Z93RGQbZD-_OMwXmYDJk4ORDBml5Xq_2k_4sF8UY/edit?usp=sharing Thoughts? Its a very rough, preliminary proposal but its a starting point to getting the ball rolling. made some new proposals based on your work. i took out the logi stuff, and added slot layouts. adjusted some bonuses as well https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WvcvnP1nN62rwmPtPybBVIoyo21JFGEZ0o6b2VeI-GE/edit?usp=sharing
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. General Tso's Alliance 2207	Posted - 2014.07.13 16:18:00 - [46] - Quote Assault's need to fill the "Light Assault" Function on the battlefield. not the Cal and Gallente Scout.... The Ability to be a fast moving, High damage suit with a little more health then a scout. Something with a more effective indirect damage bonus.. like RoF or something more Racial specific to the class. Basically sacrificing the ability to be "Tanky" for damage and mobility, and eliminating the need for scouts to fit and try and half fill this role. Where Commandos Fulfill the "Heavy Assault" Role on the battlefield. Having a Straight damage bonus and the ability to be "Tanky" but at the sacrifice of mobility.. They still have an equipment slot alowing them to setup on outside perimeters and be the masters of toe to toe at medium range gun fights. P.S.I think both classes have to be tweaked together or the balance will be off.**
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 429	Posted - 2014.07.13 16:38:00 - [47] - Quote Bethhy wrote: Assault's need to fill the "Light Assault" Function on the battlefield. not the Cal and Gallente Scout.... The Ability to be a fast moving, High damage suit with a little more health then a scout. Something with a more effective indirect damage bonus.. like RoF or something more Racial specific to the class. Basically sacrificing the ability to be "Tanky" for damage and mobility, and eliminating the need for scouts to fit and try and half fill this role. Where Commandos Fulfill the "Heavy Assault" Role on the battlefield. Having a Straight damage bonus and the ability to be "Tanky" but at the sacrifice of mobility.. They still have an equipment slot alowing them to setup on outside perimeters and be the masters of toe to toe at medium range gun fights. P.S.I think both classes have to be tweaked together or the balance will be off.** then assaults would need increased scan range. they can already pick up heavies. making them so they can pick up medium suits as well as other assaults would be nice, but without range it doesnt matter what good precision is. assault need scan range. theres some work being done with commandos as well that would make them more of a suppression and fire support class. with 100% bonus to clip sizes. if the balancing were left to me... scouts would get bonuses only to scan profile. assaults would get higher scan range, and logis would get precision.
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries 3245	Posted - 2014.07.13 21:35:00 - [48] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: so are we looking more towards: 1. better regen for assaults 2. a review of slot layouts 3. bonuses that enhance the "feel" of weapons without necessarily increasing their damage output 4. better racial bonuses for gallente and caldari so far these are the things that have come up generally "enhance the "feel" of weapons"??? CCP don't waste your time with recoil or kick bonuses....ROF for all assaults > Check RND out here
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 430	Posted - 2014.07.13 21:58:00 - [49] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: so are we looking more towards: 1. better regen for assaults 2. a review of slot layouts 3. bonuses that enhance the "feel" of weapons without necessarily increasing their damage output 4. better racial bonuses for gallente and caldari so far these are the things that have come up generally "enhance the "feel" of weapons"??? CCP don't waste your time with recoil or kick bonuses....ROF for all assaults rof doesnt apply equally or logically for all weapons. whats a rof bonus do for Scr and LR for Amarr? what about the RR and ARR? 5% per level to rof would put the ARR at a 750 rpm and 500 dps with a 100m range lol suuure. i wish we would get a rof bonus lol
somuchfail Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 1	Posted - 2014.07.14 09:54:00 - [50] - Quote there needs to be a second equipment slot at proto (like in the beta) For shield assaults: shield delay needs a huge improvement. Regs are pointless. shield regen needs a buff (and energisers need to be worth it). E.g. Cal assualt should have better shield regen than the cal scout For assaults in general: Most importantly passive scans and precision for assaults needs to be improved - otherwise there will be no reason to shift from the scout. Knowing where people are (cal) or being invisible (gal), combined with speed, is too big a gimme.

Leeroy Gannarsein Legio DXIV 457	Posted - 2014.07.14 10:29:00 - [51] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: so are we looking more towards: 1. better regen for assaults 2. a review of slot layouts 3. bonuses that enhance the "feel" of weapons without necessarily increasing their damage output 4. better racial bonuses for gallente and caldari so far these are the things that have come up generally "enhance the "feel" of weapons"??? CCP don't waste your time with recoil or kick bonuses....ROF for all assaults rof doesnt apply equally or logically for all weapons. whats a rof bonus do for Scr and LR for Amarr? what about the RR and ARR? 5% per level to rof would put the ARR at a 750 rpm and 500 dps with a 100m range lol suuure. i wish we would get a rof bonus lol LR would be beastly. ScR would be no better than it is now. If we're increasing DPS, do it via raw damage bonuses like commando. Otherwise leave it alone. It would seem like wisdom, but for the warning in my heart... CCP BLOWOUT FOR CPM1
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 433	Posted - 2014.07.14 13:48:00 - [52] - Quote somuchfail wrote: there needs to be a second equipment slot at proto (like in the beta) For shield assaults: shield delay needs a huge improvement. Regs are pointless. shield regen needs a buff (and energisers need to be worth it). E.g. Cal assualt should have better shield regen than the cal scout For assaults in general: Most importantly passive scans and precision for assaults needs to be improved - otherwise there will be no reason to shift from the scout. Knowing where people are (cal) or being invisible (gal), combined with speed, is too big a gimme. tell that to the scout in the barborshop thread. they literally went hostile in there at a few guys over them making suggestions. i said the same thing. either improve assault passive scan range or divide the ewar among scouts, assaults, and logis. they were not happy
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 433	Posted - 2014.07.14 13:50:00 - [53] - Quote Leeroy Gannarsein wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: so are we looking more towards: 1. better regen for assaults 2. a review of slot layouts 3. bonuses that enhance the "feel" of weapons without necessarily increasing their damage output 4. better racial bonuses for gallente and caldari so far these are the things that have come up generally "enhance the "feel" of weapons"??? CCP don't waste your time with recoil or kick bonuses....ROF for all assaults rof doesnt apply equally or logically for all weapons. whats a rof bonus do for Scr and LR for Amarr? what about the RR and ARR? 5% per level to rof would put the ARR at a 750 rpm and 500 dps with a 100m range lol suuure. i wish we would get a rof bonus lol LR would be beastly. ScR would be no better than it is now. If we're increasing DPS, do it via raw damage bonuses like commando. Otherwise leave it alone. after hearing how damage scales on the LR id agree. we'd also have the LR back to its former death ray levels most likely, so idk. hopefully im wrong
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 433	Posted - 2014.07.14 14:04:00 - [54] - Quote somuchfail wrote: there needs to be a second equipment slot at proto (like in the beta) For shield assaults: shield delay needs a huge improvement. Regs are pointless. shield regen needs a buff (and energisers need to be worth it). E.g. Cal assualt should have better shield regen than the cal scout For assaults in general: Most importantly passive scans and precision for assaults needs to be improved - otherwise there will be no reason to shift from the scout. Knowing where people are (cal) or being invisible (gal), combined with speed, is too big a gimme. would a second equipment slot diminish the role for logi support though? i think less people would use them. about the shield delay for assaults... its already 3 seconds with one reg. 2 seconds with two regs. i like 2 seconds, but i also know that 1 second would preferable. and if cal assault loses its third low then we really wont be able to get even that 2 second delay. so what do we do? drop base delays to 3 or 4 seconds? it isnt enough on just one low slot when the 2nd low need to be a cpu mod. a bonus to shield mod would do it but only at 5% per level and only if we dropped the delay to 4 seconds. the question we should ask, is how short of a delay should we get? 1 second delays? 2 seconds always felt fair to me, but ive had mine at 1.6 seconds before too and it was sweet but i couldne get my shield recharge high enough to make it useful.
Bright Steel Horizons' Edge Proficiency V. 29	Posted - 2014.07.14 14:34:00 - [55] - Quote The fix is simple and has been said before. Give assaults same slot layout, but with only one equipment, as logi and same CPU and pg. (now assault isbetter than logi because they have better base stats, faster with more health and their bonus' towards light weapons) this makes assaults butter than the currently slayer logis but not extremely OP. Now lower logi CPU and pg but raise their bonus towards equipment proportionally so that they can't brick tank but can run a proper logi role as all logibros currently do. This way proper logis aren't affected, only slayer logis. But with the new stats they should move to assaults anyway. The Best Worst game you can't stop playing..... DUST
somuchfail Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 1	Posted - 2014.07.14 15:52:00 - [56] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: somuchfail wrote: there needs to be a second equipment slot at proto (like in the beta) For shield assaults: shield delay needs a huge improvement. Regs are pointless. shield regen needs a buff (and energisers need to be worth it). E.g. Cal assualt should have better shield regen than the cal scout For assaults in general: Most importantly passive scans and precision for assaults needs to be improved - otherwise there will be no reason to shift from the scout. Knowing where people are (cal) or being invisible (gal), combined with speed, is too big a gimme. would a second equipment slot diminish the role for logi support though? i think less people would use them. about the shield delay for assaults... its already 3 seconds with one reg. 2 seconds with two regs. i like 2 seconds, but i also know that 1 second would preferable. and if cal assault loses its third low then we really wont be able to get even that 2 second delay. so what do we do? drop base delays to 3 or 4 seconds? it isnt enough on just one low slot when the 2nd low need to be a cpu mod. a bonus to shield mod would do it but only at 5% per level and only if we dropped the delay to 4 seconds. the question we should ask, is how short of a delay should we get? 1 second delays? 2 seconds always felt fair to me, but ive had mine at 1.6 seconds before too and it was sweet but i couldne get my shield recharge high enough to make it useful. the slot is only at proto. Having too slots is too good to not give up. Its in part why people were logi assaulting all over the place. The second slot helps move those playing ScoutAssault or in previous builds LogiAssault back to Assault. If they want me to use complex regs then the delay numbers need to come down. The difference between me waiting 3 or 4 seconds is negligible. I would be interested in fitting them if i get around 1.5 or (1)say. But perhaps lower delays should be on a minmitar with better regen on cal I find it quite strange than my Cal Logi has far better shield delays than the assault. The regs shouldn't just be thought about as slots. Its where I think suit bonuses should come into play (though I know they want to move bonuses to modules). And where putting bonuses to racial rifles are pointless and doesnt promote different playstyles.
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 434	Posted - 2014.07.14 16:12:00 - [57] - Quote The scout assaults won't leave because they still have passive scan, cloaks, more speed, two equipment slots, and same dps output as assaults, logis, and heavies when using light weapons. Scouts need a reduction in firepower. Either by increasing light weapon fitting costs or by removing their light weapon slot
somuchfail Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 1	Posted - 2014.07.14 16:31:00 - [58] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: The scout assaults won't leave because they still have passive scan, cloaks, more speed, two equipment slots, and same dps output as assaults, logis, and heavies when using light weapons. Scouts need a reduction in firepower. Either by increasing light weapon fitting costs or by removing their light weapon slot I think removing or nerfing weapons is too far Yes. they need to improve passive scan and base range. I wont move from Scout Assault if perma scans with range are still a thing
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 434	Posted - 2014.07.14 20:48:00 - [59] - Quote somuchfail wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: The scout assaults won't leave because they still have passive scan, cloaks, more speed, two equipment slots, and same dps output as assaults, logis, and heavies when using light weapons. Scouts need a reduction in firepower. Either by increasing light weapon fitting costs or by removing their light weapon slot I think removing or nerfing weapons is too far Yes. they need to improve passive scan and base range. I wont move from Scout Assault if perma scans with range are still a thing I suggested that scan precision, range, and profile be divided among scouts, assaults and logistics. Nobody would get a bonus to anything, but scouts would have lower base scan profiles. Assaults would have higher base scan range. Logistics would get higher base precision.
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 439	Posted - 2014.07.16 01:52:00 - [60] - Quote given the news about the scout changes... will a simple hp buff be enough to sway scout assaults? scouts will still have equal dps to assaults and still have perma passive scans and scan range + cloaks while brick tanking. so... how can assaults be better slayers than scouts? cause right now i dont see it happening



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