DUST Search - Hotfix Charlie

DeathwindRising wrote:

Pokey Dravon wrote:

Rate of fire modification is bad. The game uses rate of fire to determine a pseudo minimum range to weapons. Low rate of fire is poor at short range, this mechanic is part of what makes the Rail Rifle perform badly in CQC. Increasing the fire rate for weapons would completely throw this mechanic off and make weapons perform too well in ranges that it shouldn't.

Regeneration of Ammo devalues an important role that Logistics perform, and I dont think it really adds much to offense in the way that Assaults should. Its an interesting idea, but I don't think it's good for this application.

when i run ambushes, i never see anyone drop hives. either because they get used up too fast, fluxed, or the guy dies too fast and never gets to use it.

when i run out of ammo, i spend whole matches looking for hives. im not saying ammo regen at hive levels but itd be nice in the same way the 1hp/s was great on min assault when it had it. it also gives it something no other suit gets.

1-5 ammo a second? slow enough that logis are still useful, but enough for an assault with no support, to stay in the fight.

EDIT: why dont i use hives? because i find injectors more useful. like i said, i could die before i need to use a hive, but an injector is always in demand lol


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Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2298	Posted - 2014.07.11 22:40:00 - [1] - Quote This actually started in a Logi discussion thread, but it involves Assaults as well. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/18i0Z93RGQbZD-_OMwXmYDJk4ORDBml5Xq_2k_4sF8UY/edit?usp=sharing Thoughts? Its a very rough, preliminary proposal but its a starting point to getting the ball rolling. Like my ideas? Pokey Dravon for CPM1
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2299	Posted - 2014.07.11 23:06:00 - [2] - Quote Commandos have a damage bonus and that's not considered to be a problematic game mechanic. Like my ideas? Pokey Dravon for CPM1
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2299	Posted - 2014.07.11 23:19:00 - [3] - Quote Baal Omniscient wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Commandos have a damage bonus and that's not considered to be a problematic game mechanic. EDIT: But to be fair I would prefer to see a move to make all suit bonuses affect a module rather than a base attribute. Again this is preliminary. Commandos also move and strafe much slower than assaults, as well as sharing the largest hitbox in the game with the other heavy suits. Do you feel that the requirement to use damage mods for all races would make some suits less suited for the role, given a lack of high slots? Or Would that make them better because it doesn't cut into their main tanking rack? Like my ideas? Pokey Dravon for CPM1
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2299	Posted - 2014.07.11 23:29:00 - [4] - Quote Plus I'd prefer to encourage the use of racial weapons to get the bonuses, so in a way you are sacrificing flexibility to gain damage on a specific race's weapon. Damage mods apply to all weapons and kinda screw certain suits out of proper fitting. Like my ideas? Pokey Dravon for CPM1
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2300	Posted - 2014.07.11 23:58:00 - [5] - Quote Well at the same time the Assault is rather lacking in anything that makes it unique, so damage output should be a priority. Im not dead set on either, I understand the concern completely though. So if we have say 10% bonus 1st damage mod increases damage to 15% 2nd is like 19%-ish If we say doubled damage mods (Which is probably excessive) 1st 10% 2nd 18%-ish So basically stacking mods is about the same either way at least for the first 2, but I really do worry this favors armor tanks too much, especially since a bonus to mods would make stacking more a lot more beneficial, plus it doesnt encourage racial matching as much. I dunno man, I'm on the fence on this one but I'm leaning more towards flat bonus at this rate. Like my ideas? Pokey Dravon for CPM1
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2300	Posted - 2014.07.12 00:02:00 - [6] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: Baal Omniscient wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Plus I'd prefer to encourage the use of racial weapons to get the bonuses, so in a way you are sacrificing flexibility to gain damage on a specific race's weapon. Damage mods apply to all weapons and kinda screw certain suits out of proper fitting. I like promoting racial suits using their weapons, but every time I think of RoF or damage increases all I can picture is a shithead on a roof with a RR firing on everyone below with impunity. Like I said before, it makes me nervous. I wouldn't veto the entire sheet due to this one issue because it makes up for a lot, it's just a personal issue I have with directly adding damage output. i agree with you. directly buffing damage output should be avoided. a final solution at best, and only to be visited when all other options have failed. we can be a bit more creative than that. Fair enough. I'll pen it in as an alternative for now. That being said, what do you feel would be an appropriate Lvl 5 bonus to the damage mod, while avoiding the issues we had before with TTK being waaay too short? Like my ideas? Pokey Dravon for CPM1
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2300	Posted - 2014.07.12 00:06:00 - [7] - Quote Baal Omniscient wrote: For me in my Minassault, I run 3 pro shields, a basic energizer and a basic recharger (avoids the stacking penalty), and if I'm going for up-close fights I toss on a complex reactive and ferroscale. If I'm using my burst, I run a shield regulator and a kinkat. I have less tank, less regen and more delays to my shields unfortunately.... Also, I still think regen needs to be looked into closer. Shield regen/delays getting directly buffed makes a lot of sense for the shield side of assault buffs. As for the Amarr/Gallente parallel? .....Give them a flat bonus to the reps and eHP from plates and repping mods? Flat bonus to reps, as in a +HP/second built into the suit? Also I specifically avoided boosting the eHP of the Amarr on purpose, as a I feel it would quickly become too strong against the others. Its true that their theme is brick tanking, but I really wanted to keep away from boosting the eHP of one racial variant but not the others. Like my ideas? Pokey Dravon for CPM1
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2300	Posted - 2014.07.12 00:33:00 - [8] - Quote Well the concept I was going for was mostly to give each frame its own general form of tanking. Heavies get Buffer Medium get Active (regeneration) Lights get Speed Amarr Assaults/Logi's of course don't really fit this mold, however I wanted to shy away from giving them straight up more eHP. The reason being that the Amarr typically have the highest base eHP, with an emphasis on low lots but also high slots to work with. The natural choice is to stick a ton of plates in the low to take advantage of the armor plate bonus, then stack damage mods in the high to take advantage of the damage mod bonus. So now you have a suit with more eHP than any other Assault by a long shot, and able to stack damage without any sacrifice to tank. Amarr Assault would instantly be the preferred Assault suit for superior defenses and damage output. That's basically why I avoided both of those bonuses. So lets assume we wont directly buff damage, what sort of things would you think would give the Assault that sense of uniqueness that it currently lacks? It needs to be something that is difficult or impossible for other suits to replicate. The Cloak on a scout would be a good example. You'll notice in my spreadsheet that I mention a bonus to grenades. This opens up a lot of flexibility for Assaults as it would make AV grenades terrifying, but also allow them to make use of anti-infantry possibilities. This would parralel a bonus Logistics would get to Remotes and Proxies, an idea that is being well received over in the Logistic's camp. Take a look and give me your thoughts. Like my ideas? Pokey Dravon for CPM1
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2301	Posted - 2014.07.12 01:21:00 - [9] - Quote Rate of fire modification is bad. The game uses rate of fire to determine a pseudo minimum range to weapons. Low rate of fire is poor at short range, this mechanic is part of what makes the Rail Rifle perform badly in CQC. Increasing the fire rate for weapons would completely throw this mechanic off and make weapons perform too well in ranges that it shouldn't. Regeneration of Ammo devalues an important role that Logistics perform, and I dont think it really adds much to offense in the way that Assaults should. Its an interesting idea, but I don't think it's good for this application. Like my ideas? Pokey Dravon for CPM1
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2301	Posted - 2014.07.12 01:44:00 - [10] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: Pokey Dravon wrote: Rate of fire modification is bad. The game uses rate of fire to determine a pseudo minimum range to weapons. Low rate of fire is poor at short range, this mechanic is part of what makes the Rail Rifle perform badly in CQC. Increasing the fire rate for weapons would completely throw this mechanic off and make weapons perform too well in ranges that it shouldn't. Regeneration of Ammo devalues an important role that Logistics perform, and I dont think it really adds much to offense in the way that Assaults should. Its an interesting idea, but I don't think it's good for this application. when i run ambushes, i never see anyone drop hives. either because they get used up too fast, fluxed, or the guy dies too fast and never gets to use it. when i run out of ammo, i spend whole matches looking for hives. im not saying ammo regen at hive levels but itd be nice in the same way the 1hp/s was great on min assault when it had it. it also gives it something no other suit gets. 1-5 ammo a second? slow enough that logis are still useful, but enough for an assault with no support, to stay in the fight. EDIT: why dont i use hives? because i find injectors more useful. like i said, i could die before i need to use a hive, but an injector is always in demand lol I get your reasoning I just don't think its a suitable bonus for Assaults. Difference of opinion Like my ideas? Pokey Dravon for CPM1