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Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
3217
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Posted - 2014.07.11 20:05:00 -
[1] - Quote
Giving this bonus to the amarr changes what? The caldari suit is not even the problem....there are counters to it. It's the Gallente scout that there is no answer for.
There is nothing OP about the cal scout suit. It's supposed to regen faster because it's caldari. Aside from shield regen...what is the advantage? Precision bonus may be the only thing....but now that same bonus is moved to another suit....so what is being fixed or changed or balanced?
Removed all hope with this post
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Fatal Absolution
15295
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Posted - 2014.07.11 20:13:00 -
[2] - Quote
The bonus is being given to the Amarr because it makes it a useful suit.
You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
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Soulja Ghostface
MCDUSTDONALDS
2335
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Posted - 2014.07.11 20:14:00 -
[3] - Quote
Ydubbs, Arn't you too busy steamrolling faces in a tank to fret over a nerfed suit?
CEO/ Killing Clones Since Uprising 1.2/ ADV Omni Soldier/ Forum King/
God Favors The Side With The Most Artillery
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One Eyed King
Land of the BIind
2459
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Posted - 2014.07.11 20:17:00 -
[4] - Quote
The fact that shared scanning can piggy back off of a caldari so that a squad of heavies can know the locations of all players but the most hidden squishy gallente scout, at which point the heavy can spin 360 using his HMG after any shotgun blast and kill the squishy galente no problem.
Sounds like imbalance to me.
This is how a minja feels
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Clone D
484
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Posted - 2014.07.11 20:23:00 -
[5] - Quote
It's about time that another dropsuit received a decent precision bonus. If knowing is half the battle, then cal scouts have had a ginormous advantage over every other suit in the game. Now they have some competition.
~friendly but smug~ Eat it
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Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
3218
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Posted - 2014.07.11 20:23:00 -
[6] - Quote
Soulja Ghostface wrote:Ydubbs, Arn't you too busy steamrolling faces in a tank to fret over a nerfed suit?
I do everything nowadays
Removed all hope with this post
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Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
3218
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Posted - 2014.07.11 20:24:00 -
[7] - Quote
One Eyed King wrote:The fact that shared scanning can piggy back off of a caldari so that a squad of heavies can know the locations of all players but the most hidden squishy gallente scout, at which point the heavy can spin 360 using his HMG after any shotgun blast and kill the squishy galente no problem.
Sounds like imbalance to me.
Incorrect on so many levels.
Removed all hope with this post
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Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
3218
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Posted - 2014.07.11 20:25:00 -
[8] - Quote
Clone D wrote:It's about time that another dropsuit received a decent precision bonus. If knowing is half the battle, then cal scouts have had a ginormous advantage over every other suit in the game. Now they have some competition.
~friendly but smug~ Eat it
This is also ridiculous....so is the precision scan bonus going to be passed around to every scout suit every few months?
I'd like to have that dampening bonus passed as well..since we're sharing
Removed all hope with this post
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hfderrtgvcd
Resheph Interstellar Strategy Gallente Federation
83
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Posted - 2014.07.11 20:25:00 -
[9] - Quote
The cal scout will still be the best suit in the game for slaying. |
Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
3218
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Posted - 2014.07.11 20:27:00 -
[10] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:The bonus is being given to the Amarr because it makes it a useful suit.
So, it isn't for nerfing cal scouts but more for balancing out the roles of the suits?
Removed all hope with this post
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Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
3218
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Posted - 2014.07.11 20:28:00 -
[11] - Quote
hfderrtgvcd wrote:The cal scout will still be the best suit in the game for slaying.
Not really.....the only decent thing about the suit will be shield regen. There is no clear advantage to caldari scout suits.
Removed all hope with this post
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Soulja Ghostface
MCDUSTDONALDS
2335
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Posted - 2014.07.11 20:29:00 -
[12] - Quote
hfderrtgvcd wrote:The cal scout will still be the best suit in the game for slaying. I Wish All The Caldari Scout QQer's Could Get That Through Their Thick Skulls
CEO/ Killing Clones Since Uprising 1.2/ ADV Omni Soldier/ Forum King/
God Favors The Side With The Most Artillery
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Appia Vibbia
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
3259
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Posted - 2014.07.11 20:31:00 -
[13] - Quote
I think there's a lot of . . . Giving precision to the Amarr is just lack of foresight. There are only so many possibilities on how it can work out.
A) you can give the suit a bonus like the Caldari currently have at 5% per level to which the suit doesn't have enough High Slots to act as a Scout hunter or you can give a much larger bonus, like 8% per level and for most of the time they won't need to run precision enhancers
B) You can give the suit a bonus to the efficacy of Precision Enhancer modules, that has 2 results. Either the bonus is so low, a Caldari scout will still have more precision or the bonus is 17% per level and with 2 modules the Amarr Scout will be able to do what the Caldari needed 4 modules to do before.
EWAR is a system that is all-or-nothing, this is either going to make the Amarr Scout useless, the Amarr Scout OP, or the Gallente Scout OP.
There just is no balance you can find with any set of numbers when you're giving a precision bonus to a suit with only 2 high slots
Appia Vibbia for CPM1
Empress of Alts
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Arcturis Vanguard
Red Star. EoN.
169
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Posted - 2014.07.11 20:31:00 -
[14] - Quote
One Eyed King wrote:The fact that shared scanning can piggy back off of a caldari so that a squad of heavies can know the locations of all players but the most hidden squishy gallente scout, at which point the heavy can spin 360 using his HMG after any shotgun blast and kill the squishy galente no problem.
Sounds like imbalance to me.
So the caldari scout is the only suit in the game that has shared scans? I think not. Moving the scans to a suit with more low ends will increase what can be scanned distance wise. Typical caldari scout build would have two precision, two extenders and maybe 1-2 range amps.
Amarr Heavy V
Amarr Assault V
Caldari Scout V
Caldari logistic IV
Prof V HMG & FORGE
Prof IV CR, SMG
Prof III ScR
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Leadfoot10
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
1169
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Posted - 2014.07.11 20:31:00 -
[15] - Quote
hfderrtgvcd wrote:The cal scout will still be the best suit in the game for slaying.
Then why are they rarer than hen's teeth in PC?
The only thing that the cal scout is best at is passive scanning -- which has little applicability except as a long distance flanker -- and even that advantage is about to evaporate after hotfix Charlie (i.e. the Amarr scout will have the same bonus).
The gal scout can also, through the use of his low slots, evade even the best cal scout's scans.
PCs are full of gal scouts and heavies...because they are really the best suits for slaying. |
Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
3218
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Posted - 2014.07.11 20:35:00 -
[16] - Quote
Appia Vibbia wrote:I think there's a lot of . . . Giving precision to the Amarr is just lack of foresight. There are only so many possibilities on how it can work out.
A) you can give the suit a bonus like the Caldari currently have at 5% per level to which the suit doesn't have enough High Slots to act as a Scout hunter or you can give a much larger bonus, like 8% per level and for most of the time they won't need to run precision enhancers
B) You can give the suit a bonus to the efficacy of Precision Enhancer modules, that has 2 results. Either the bonus is so low, a Caldari scout will still have more precision or the bonus is 17% per level and with 2 modules the Amarr Scout will be able to do what the Caldari needed 4 modules to do before.
EWAR is a system that is all-or-nothing, this is either going to make the Amarr Scout useless, the Amarr Scout OP, or the Gallente Scout OP.
There just is no balance you can find with any set of numbers when you're giving a precision bonus to a suit with only 2 high slots
It's so true.....there is no balance with these precision and profile dampening bonuses. They should just remove them all.
They should give the bonus to the modules instead of the suit itself...good point.
Removed all hope with this post
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hfderrtgvcd
Resheph Interstellar Strategy Gallente Federation
85
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Posted - 2014.07.11 20:35:00 -
[17] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:hfderrtgvcd wrote:The cal scout will still be the best suit in the game for slaying. Not really.....the only decent thing about the suit will be shield regen. There is no clear advantage to caldari scout suits.
450+ shields, best shield delays, best regen rate, small hitbox, great cpu/pg, two equipments slots, second fastest suit, resistances against the most popular weapons (hmgs, combat rifles, rail rifles) |
Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
3218
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Posted - 2014.07.11 20:37:00 -
[18] - Quote
Arcturis Vanguard wrote:One Eyed King wrote:The fact that shared scanning can piggy back off of a caldari so that a squad of heavies can know the locations of all players but the most hidden squishy gallente scout, at which point the heavy can spin 360 using his HMG after any shotgun blast and kill the squishy galente no problem.
Sounds like imbalance to me. So the caldari scout is the only suit in the game that has shared scans? I think not. Moving the scans to a suit with more low ends will increase what can be scanned distance wise. Typical caldari scout build would have two precision, two extenders and maybe 1-2 range amps.
Exactly my point.....for the cal scout, in order to you use precision enhancers, you have to sacrifice some of your primary tank. Amarr gets most of its tank from low slots, so there is no give and take. It's just the wrong suit to give the bonus to.
Imagine profile damps on the high slot side...gallente scouts can put two on and be virtually undetectable and still have all of their slots for speed and tank.
Removed all hope with this post
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hfderrtgvcd
Resheph Interstellar Strategy Gallente Federation
85
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Posted - 2014.07.11 20:38:00 -
[19] - Quote
Leadfoot10 wrote:hfderrtgvcd wrote:The cal scout will still be the best suit in the game for slaying. Then why are they rarer than hen's teeth in PC? The only thing that the cal scout is best at is passive scanning -- which has little applicability except as a long distance flanker -- and even that advantage is about to evaporate after hotfix Charlie (i.e. the Amarr scout will have the same bonus). The gal scout can also, through the use of his low slots, evade even the best cal scout's scans. PCs are full of gal scouts and heavies...because they are really the best suits for slaying.
your joking right? please tell me your joking. Literally all the best slayers use the cal scout |
Seigfried Warheit
Opus Arcana
341
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Posted - 2014.07.11 20:40:00 -
[20] - Quote
I wish for scouts the primary skill was for the module itself not the incorporated in the suit itself. Let Caldari keep precision..then they HAVE to use the precision module keeping their tank low, same will Gal their main tank will be kept low, Amarr with range...but it might be a bad idea cause that causes problems with the minnie cause they have no tank...
I use a DS to hump things......
I am a prof. V scrub. I have no honor.
c[_] Change spare change anyone
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One Eyed King
Land of the BIind
2460
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Posted - 2014.07.11 20:41:00 -
[21] - Quote
Arcturis Vanguard wrote:One Eyed King wrote:The fact that shared scanning can piggy back off of a caldari so that a squad of heavies can know the locations of all players but the most hidden squishy gallente scout, at which point the heavy can spin 360 using his HMG after any shotgun blast and kill the squishy galente no problem.
Sounds like imbalance to me. So the caldari scout is the only suit in the game that has shared scans? I think not. Moving the scans to a suit with more low ends will increase what can be scanned distance wise. Typical caldari scout build would have two precision, two extenders and maybe 1-2 range amps. Typically, but not always.
Minja and Amarr can't hide from a fully precisioned cal. Plus, I think as it stands they also have a range bonus. The combination of those 2 AND shared scans is insane. It is a problem.
Cal had to take a hit in order for Minmatar and Amarr to have a purpose.
This is how a minja feels
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Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
3221
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Posted - 2014.07.11 20:41:00 -
[22] - Quote
hfderrtgvcd wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:hfderrtgvcd wrote:The cal scout will still be the best suit in the game for slaying. Not really.....the only decent thing about the suit will be shield regen. There is no clear advantage to caldari scout suits. 450+ shields, best shield delays, best regen rate, small hitbox, great cpu/pg, two equipments slots, second fastest suit, resistances against the most popular weapons (hmgs, combat rifles, rail rifles)
Use good logic, ok?
besides having shields (it's supposed to because it's caldari. The same argument could be made for armor suits. 600+ hp of armor on gallente and amarr scouts) the hitboxes are the same as other suits. All scouts have 2 equipment slots. All of the scouts have good base speed and the gallente and the caldari have the same base speed.
Caldari scout doesn't have any resistances to weapons.....you can't be this out of touch.
Removed all hope with this post
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hfderrtgvcd
Resheph Interstellar Strategy Gallente Federation
85
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Posted - 2014.07.11 20:43:00 -
[23] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:hfderrtgvcd wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:hfderrtgvcd wrote:The cal scout will still be the best suit in the game for slaying. Not really.....the only decent thing about the suit will be shield regen. There is no clear advantage to caldari scout suits. 450+ shields, best shield delays, best regen rate, small hitbox, great cpu/pg, two equipments slots, second fastest suit, resistances against the most popular weapons (hmgs, combat rifles, rail rifles) Caldari scout doesn't have any resistances to weapons.....you can't be this out of touch.
Shields do, and caldari have the most shields
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Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
3221
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Posted - 2014.07.11 20:43:00 -
[24] - Quote
One Eyed King wrote:Arcturis Vanguard wrote:One Eyed King wrote:The fact that shared scanning can piggy back off of a caldari so that a squad of heavies can know the locations of all players but the most hidden squishy gallente scout, at which point the heavy can spin 360 using his HMG after any shotgun blast and kill the squishy galente no problem.
Sounds like imbalance to me. So the caldari scout is the only suit in the game that has shared scans? I think not. Moving the scans to a suit with more low ends will increase what can be scanned distance wise. Typical caldari scout build would have two precision, two extenders and maybe 1-2 range amps. Typically, but not always. Minja and Amarr can't hide from a fully precisioned cal. Plus, I think as it stands they also have a range bonus. The combination of those 2 AND shared scans is insane. It is a problem. Cal had to take a hit in order for Minmatar and Amarr to have a purpose.
The min and amarr scout can go under a double precisioned cal scout. It's been tested.
Removed all hope with this post
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Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
3221
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Posted - 2014.07.11 20:45:00 -
[25] - Quote
hfderrtgvcd wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:hfderrtgvcd wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:hfderrtgvcd wrote:The cal scout will still be the best suit in the game for slaying. Not really.....the only decent thing about the suit will be shield regen. There is no clear advantage to caldari scout suits. 450+ shields, best shield delays, best regen rate, small hitbox, great cpu/pg, two equipments slots, second fastest suit, resistances against the most popular weapons (hmgs, combat rifles, rail rifles) Caldari scout doesn't have any resistances to weapons.....you can't be this out of touch. Shields do, and caldari have the most shields
But then shields are finished by scrambler rifles and duvolles. What is the point? There are counters to shield and armor tanking.
Removed all hope with this post
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Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
3221
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Posted - 2014.07.11 20:46:00 -
[26] - Quote
Seigfried Warheit wrote:I wish for scouts the primary skill was for the module itself not the incorporated in the suit itself. Let Caldari keep precision..then they HAVE to use the precision module keeping their tank low, same will Gal their main tank will be kept low, Amarr with range...but it might be a bad idea cause that causes problems with the minnie cause they have no tank...
Exactly...let the bonus be to the modules.
Removed all hope with this post
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Leadfoot10
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
1169
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Posted - 2014.07.11 20:46:00 -
[27] - Quote
hfderrtgvcd wrote:Leadfoot10 wrote:hfderrtgvcd wrote:The cal scout will still be the best suit in the game for slaying. Then why are they rarer than hen's teeth in PC? The only thing that the cal scout is best at is passive scanning -- which has little applicability except as a long distance flanker -- and even that advantage is about to evaporate after hotfix Charlie (i.e. the Amarr scout will have the same bonus). The gal scout can also, through the use of his low slots, evade even the best cal scout's scans. PCs are full of gal scouts and heavies...because they are really the best suits for slaying. your joking right? please tell me your joking. Literally all the best slayers use the cal scout
No, I'm not joking.
Who are "all the best slayers in the game"?
The best scouts I know and face in PCs all run the same suit -- gal scout.
The rest that top the leaderboard in PCs in terms of kills are heavies.
Who do you PC for?
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Appia Vibbia
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
3262
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Posted - 2014.07.11 20:47:00 -
[28] - Quote
hfderrtgvcd wrote:Leadfoot10 wrote:hfderrtgvcd wrote:The cal scout will still be the best suit in the game for slaying. Then why are they rarer than hen's teeth in PC? The only thing that the cal scout is best at is passive scanning -- which has little applicability except as a long distance flanker -- and even that advantage is about to evaporate after hotfix Charlie (i.e. the Amarr scout will have the same bonus). The gal scout can also, through the use of his low slots, evade even the best cal scout's scans. PCs are full of gal scouts and heavies...because they are really the best suits for slaying. your joking right? please tell me your joking. Literally all the best slayers use the cal scout
yeah.... leadfoot, I kinda just posted my slayer suit on skype. It's a shield-tanked Cal-Scout with the Allotek AR
Until/Unless The Assault Suits get a bonus that doesn't limit them to just 1 weapon the Cal Scout will be better than a Cal Assault that only gets a bonus to Rail Rifle
Appia Vibbia for CPM1
Empress of Alts
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Bethhy
Ancient Exiles. General Tso's Alliance
2177
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Posted - 2014.07.11 20:48:00 -
[29] - Quote
hfderrtgvcd wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:hfderrtgvcd wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:hfderrtgvcd wrote:The cal scout will still be the best suit in the game for slaying. Not really.....the only decent thing about the suit will be shield regen. There is no clear advantage to caldari scout suits. 450+ shields, best shield delays, best regen rate, small hitbox, great cpu/pg, two equipments slots, second fastest suit, resistances against the most popular weapons (hmgs, combat rifles, rail rifles) Caldari scout doesn't have any resistances to weapons.....you can't be this out of touch. Shields do, and caldari have the most shields
The biggest counter to this argument is SCR's.
They two shot nearly any cal scout.
And I assume The best bet for public matches? which seems to be what your referring too. because PC's are full of FLuxes, Duvolles, Shotguns and SCR's. If your getting hit by a HMG, CR or RR in PC as a cal scout your kinda doing it wrong.
For Public matches your best bet is to hybrid tank... you want around 200 shield to deaden the armor dmg from HMG's and CR's.. but you also want around 200+ armor so you can take the burst damage from an SCR or LR. This however in PC's is useless, or really any actually competitive public match. |
hfderrtgvcd
Resheph Interstellar Strategy Gallente Federation
85
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Posted - 2014.07.11 20:51:00 -
[30] - Quote
My point is the caldari scout will still be a strong suit after the change. It will also have the longest scan range of any suit. |
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