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Harpyja
Legio DXIV
1957
|
Posted - 2014.06.28 22:13:00 -
[1] - Quote
... (I know I'm going to get flamed) but I'm thinking that AV is returning to 1.6 levels where proto AV can solo tanks again.
Yesterday and today were rather frustrating due to the event, because now any AV is proto AV. So now, proto AV is being "stress tested." Call me crazy but I think proto AV is actually a bit OP. One person can now effectively destroy any tank using proto AV.
Here's why: nerf to blaster dispersion. I think that large blasters were the only turrets capable of keeping AV in check from becoming too powerful. Blaster tanks could effectively combat any single AV infantry from a safe distance. Now, though, if I want to kill an infantryman effectively, I must do so at under 20 meters.
In other words, I can no longer deal with AV infantry effectively. They cannot fear me anymore. I must fear just one single proto AV because I cannot shoot reliably enough anymore to deal with them.
It used to be AV infantry > AV tank (missiles and railguns) > AI tank (blasters) > AV infantry. While a few AV infantry could take out a blaster tank, a blaster tank could counter them rather effectively.
But now, it's AV infantry > tank. As long as AV infantry doesn't begin the engagement within 20 meters of a blaster tank, they cannot be reliably countered. Missile/railgun tanks were always better off to run away than to try and fight. But now, the blaster tank must also run away with its tail between its legs, and now what's left to keep AV infantry in check? Infantry? Yeah right, a Six Kin SMG wielding heavy or a Six Kin Combat Rifle wielding Min commando can take care of itself on its own, unless it faces several infantry at once, but now we get to the same question infantry loves to ask, does it have to take more than one to kill one?
Because ultimately, tanks can be killed by one player, it's just that blaster tanks kept AV in check. Missile/railgun tanks were easy to deal with, while blaster tanks were an effective counter to AV while being countered by the missile/railgun tanks AV could counter easily.
CCP, remove large blaster dispersion. It took just as much skill to aim it as it did to aim a rifle anyways.
"By His light, and His will"- The Scriptures, 12:32
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"Scouts should fart repeatedly while cloaked"- TechMechMeds
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Crimson ShieId
Psygod9
585
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Posted - 2014.06.28 22:20:00 -
[2] - Quote
I still have yet to be singled by a solo player unless my armor and shields have already been reduced, though I haven't played more than a handful of games in tanks (Testing the nerfs and all that good stuff) At this point, having a gunner is actually useful because small rails are more accurate than the blaster and can easily take out even the most brick tanked of heavies. I'd say people have just gotten too accustomed to having tanks unkillable by anything less than a crafty RE scout or three proto AV'ers. What we really need at this point are better tanks, all we've got is militia and basic. Get those advanced and proto tanks out again and I'm sure we'll see some good proto on proto fights.
Nova Knives are best sidearm.
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Harpyja
Legio DXIV
1958
|
Posted - 2014.06.28 22:48:00 -
[3] - Quote
Crimson ShieId wrote:I still have yet to be singled by a solo player unless my armor and shields have already been reduced, though I haven't played more than a handful of games in tanks (Testing the nerfs and all that good stuff) At this point, having a gunner is actually useful because small rails are more accurate than the blaster and can easily take out even the most brick tanked of heavies. I'd say people have just gotten too accustomed to having tanks unkillable by anything less than a crafty RE scout or three proto AV'ers. What we really need at this point are better tanks, all we've got is militia and basic. Get those advanced and proto tanks out again and I'm sure we'll see some good proto on proto fights. Yes, we can't achieve balance until we get advanced and prototype vehicle hulls. Then AV and vehicles can be properly balanced by their tiers.
Because right now, how do you balance? By tier? That would make standard AV balanced against standard vehicles, but proto AV will be incredibly OP. Then you can make proto AV balanced against proto vehicles, but now you get useless standard and advanced AV.
I think the only solution to this never ending problem is to bring in advanced and proto vehicles.
"By His light, and His will"- The Scriptures, 12:32
--
"Scouts should fart repeatedly while cloaked"- TechMechMeds
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Mortedeamor
NoGameNoLife
1680
|
Posted - 2014.06.28 22:48:00 -
[4] - Quote
you think i know...the balance has been swung the other way AGAIN |
True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
11324
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Posted - 2014.06.28 22:50:00 -
[5] - Quote
Harpyja wrote:Crimson ShieId wrote:I still have yet to be singled by a solo player unless my armor and shields have already been reduced, though I haven't played more than a handful of games in tanks (Testing the nerfs and all that good stuff) At this point, having a gunner is actually useful because small rails are more accurate than the blaster and can easily take out even the most brick tanked of heavies. I'd say people have just gotten too accustomed to having tanks unkillable by anything less than a crafty RE scout or three proto AV'ers. What we really need at this point are better tanks, all we've got is militia and basic. Get those advanced and proto tanks out again and I'm sure we'll see some good proto on proto fights. Yes, we can't achieve balance until we get advanced and prototype vehicle hulls. Then AV and vehicles can be properly balanced by their tiers. Because right now, how do you balance? By tier? That would make standard AV balanced against standard vehicles, but proto AV will be incredibly OP. Then you can make proto AV balanced against proto vehicles, but now you get useless standard and advanced AV. I think the only solution to this never ending problem is to bring in advanced and proto vehicles.
We also cannot achieve balance until all racial hulls and AV options are in the game.
It boggles my mind that CCP is not introducing these elements into dust for us to test and balance for a swifter and smoothers Legion introduction.
" We need to reclaim their fates and envelop them in ours. And we need to love them, no matter how much it hurts."
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Kaughst
Nyain San General Tso's Alliance
512
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Posted - 2014.06.28 22:52:00 -
[6] - Quote
Maybe hardeners just need to get buffed again then. One the points is to force the enemy team to switch to AV, of course if they also you know...lowered the vehicle speed it might actually feel like a tank is coming in a wave to wreak havoc and than wash back out.
"The road to hell is paved with good intentions."
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Harpyja
Legio DXIV
1958
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Posted - 2014.06.28 22:55:00 -
[7] - Quote
Mortedeamor wrote:you think i know...the balance has been swung the other way AGAIN I guess our 6 months of being powerful are over and it's AV's turn now. Again.
"By His light, and His will"- The Scriptures, 12:32
--
"Scouts should fart repeatedly while cloaked"- TechMechMeds
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Louis Domi
Pradox One Proficiency V.
405
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Posted - 2014.06.28 22:56:00 -
[8] - Quote
I thought back in 1.6 even basic AV could solo any vehicle... I remember always fitting packed Av grenades(Basic) and a nanohive, on all dropsuits, if a tank showed up, I would drop a nanohive, and begin just throwing those Av grenades, boom took like 3-5 to kill a tank, more if it was an enforcer. |
Harpyja
Legio DXIV
1960
|
Posted - 2014.06.29 04:57:00 -
[9] - Quote
Louis Domi wrote:I thought back in 1.6 even basic AV could solo any vehicle... I remember always fitting packed Av grenades(Basic) and a nanohive, on all dropsuits, if a tank showed up, I would drop a nanohive, and begin just throwing those Av grenades, boom took like 3-5 to kill a tank, more if it was an enforcer. I only had complaints about proto AV in 1.6. Advanced AV was fine while proto AV was just overkill. It took just one Ishukone Assault Forge Gun to show up on the kill feed to make me play extremely cautious with my Gunnlogi, if not make a full retreat.
"By His light, and His will"- The Scriptures, 12:32
--
"Scouts should fart repeatedly while cloaked"- TechMechMeds
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Nocturnal Soul
Immortal Retribution
3353
|
Posted - 2014.06.29 05:02:00 -
[10] - Quote
Yet I still have a lack of sympathy for all those try hard duna wannabes....
Its alright everyone, no need to worry it's just an Amarr scout :(
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Lorhak Gannarsein
Legio DXIV
3886
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Posted - 2014.06.29 05:34:00 -
[11] - Quote
I actually disagree.
This is the first time in months I can use a large blaster and not feel like a massive scrub :)
I think (for pubs at least) the focus has been taken somewhat off solo tanking and is more on team tanking.
Definitely I see the competitive meta changing from AI to AV; tanks aren't competent AI anymore compared to ADSes IMO.
CCP Rattati Best Dev
AmLogi 5 GÇó AmAss 5 GÇó AmSent 4 GÇó CalScout 5
CalLogi, you're next!
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Lorhak Gannarsein
Legio DXIV
3887
|
Posted - 2014.06.29 05:51:00 -
[12] - Quote
Harpyja wrote:Crimson ShieId wrote:I still have yet to be singled by a solo player unless my armor and shields have already been reduced, though I haven't played more than a handful of games in tanks (Testing the nerfs and all that good stuff) At this point, having a gunner is actually useful because small rails are more accurate than the blaster and can easily take out even the most brick tanked of heavies. I'd say people have just gotten too accustomed to having tanks unkillable by anything less than a crafty RE scout or three proto AV'ers. What we really need at this point are better tanks, all we've got is militia and basic. Get those advanced and proto tanks out again and I'm sure we'll see some good proto on proto fights. Yes, we can't achieve balance until we get advanced and prototype vehicle hulls. Then AV and vehicles can be properly balanced by their tiers. Because right now, how do you balance? By tier? That would make standard AV balanced against standard vehicles, but proto AV will be incredibly OP. Then you can make proto AV balanced against proto vehicles, but now you get useless standard and advanced AV. I think the only solution to this never ending problem is to bring in advanced and proto vehicles. Then you get proto AV that's OP against STD vehicles in a way a Duvolle only dreams of being.
Or you get proto HAVs that are so insignificantly different to the regular ones that there's no point using them.
CCP Rattati Best Dev
AmLogi 5 GÇó AmAss 5 GÇó AmSent 4 GÇó CalScout 5
CalLogi, you're next!
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Atiim
EnvyUs.
9977
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Posted - 2014.06.29 06:05:00 -
[13] - Quote
Harpyja wrote:... (I know I'm going to get flamed) but I'm thinking that AV is returning to 1.6 levels where proto AV can solo tanks again. And PRO AV soloing HAVs is a problem. how exactly?
Harpyja wrote:Yesterday and today were rather frustrating due to the event, because now any AV is proto AV. So now, proto AV is being "stress tested." Call me crazy but I think proto AV is actually a bit OP. One person can now effectively destroy any tank using proto AV. So a player being able to effectively destroy HAVs with PRO AV is a problem, how exactly?
Harpyja wrote:Here's why: nerf to blaster dispersion. I think that large blasters were the only turrets capable of keeping AV in check from becoming too powerful. Blaster tanks could effectively combat any single AV infantry from a safe distance. Now, though, if I want to kill an infantryman effectively, I must do so at under 20 meters. Considering how 80GJ Blasters were never supposed to be Anti-Personnel weapons in the first place, I find no problem in having to be within extreme range to do so.
Harpyja wrote:In other words, I can no longer deal with AV infantry effectively. They cannot fear me anymore. I must fear just one single proto AV because I cannot shoot reliably enough anymore to deal with them. Most AVers can't strafe to save their lives, so perhaps you should try using Large Missiles against them. I find them to be rather reliable when I'm patient as opposed to dumping the entire magazine.
Harpya wrote:aIt used to be AV infantry > AV tank (missiles and railguns) > AI tank (blasters) > AV infantry. While a few AV infantry could take out a blaster tank, a blaster tank could counter them rather effectively. Actually, it was AV Tank (80GJ Blaster; Railgun) > AV Infantry (SLs and FG) < Infantry.
Taking Care of The Pilot Infestation in North American Skirmish
-HAND
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Atiim
EnvyUs.
9977
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Posted - 2014.06.29 06:06:00 -
[14] - Quote
Harpyja wrote:But now, it's AV infantry > tank. As long as AV infantry doesn't begin the engagement within 20 meters of a blaster tank, they cannot be reliably countered. Missile/railgun tanks were always better off to run away than to try and fight. But now, the blaster tank must also run away with its tail between its legs, and now what's left to keep AV infantry in check? Infantry? Yeah right, a Six Kin SMG wielding heavy or a Six Kin Combat Rifle wielding Min commando can take care of itself on its own, unless it faces several infantry at once, but now we get to the same question infantry loves to ask, does it have to take more than one to kill one? The Six Kin H/SMG Sentinel can take care of itself, but at any point in time it can be killed by a single Infantry unit as well. However, you can't compare them to HAVs in the sense that unlike the sentinel, HAVs:
- Are Immune to 80% of all weapons in DUST 514
- Have speeds of 19.5m/s and 22.5m/s (about 5x faster than Sentinels)
- Boast 4150-5200 base eHP (about 5x higher than Sentinels)
- Have the ability to see threats around them (via 3rd Person View)
It is because of these extreme advantages that the HAV must sacrifice something, which in this case is it's effectiveness against Infantry (for the most part).
Wait.. Are you implying that a Matari Commando can't be soloed?
Harpyja wrote:Because ultimately, tanks can be killed by one player, it's just that blaster tanks kept AV in check. Missile/railgun tanks were easy to deal with, while blaster tanks were an effective counter to AV while being countered by the missile/railgun tanks AV could counter easily 80GJ Blasters were far too effective. A weapon being mounted onto something with at least 4150 eHP with speeds faster than a Light Frame, as well as being fully automatic and having a 300m range should never have a TTK that low.
Harpyja wrote:CCP, remove large blaster dispersion. It took just as much skill to aim it as it did to aim a rifle anyways. I can guarantee that they won't, as 80GJ Blasters aren't meant to be Anti-Personnel weapons.
Source:
CCP Rattati wrote:Small Blaster ROF and dispersion were increased to make it easier to hit infantry, the intent was buff.
How did Rail and dmg mod nerf change AV-Vehicle balance?
The only change like Atiim says, PLC buff, AV grenade slight buff, two bugfixes and rep nerf. LB was never supposed to be anti-infantry.
Taking Care of The Pilot Infestation in North American Skirmish
-HAND
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INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC
467
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Posted - 2014.06.29 06:18:00 -
[15] - Quote
Harpyja wrote:... (I know I'm going to get flamed) but I'm thinking that AV is returning to 1.6 levels where proto AV can solo tanks again.
Yesterday and today were rather frustrating due to the event, because now any AV is proto AV. So now, proto AV is being "stress tested." Call me crazy but I think proto AV is actually a bit OP. One person can now effectively destroy any tank using proto AV.
Here's why: nerf to blaster dispersion. I think that large blasters were the only turrets capable of keeping AV in check from becoming too powerful. Blaster tanks could effectively combat any single AV infantry from a safe distance. Now, though, if I want to kill an infantryman effectively, I must do so at under 20 meters.
In other words, I can no longer deal with AV infantry effectively. They cannot fear me anymore. I must fear just one single proto AV because I cannot shoot reliably enough anymore to deal with them.
It used to be AV infantry > AV tank (missiles and railguns) > AI tank (blasters) > AV infantry. While a few AV infantry could take out a blaster tank, a blaster tank could counter them rather effectively.
But now, it's AV infantry > tank. As long as AV infantry doesn't begin the engagement within 20 meters of a blaster tank, they cannot be reliably countered. Missile/railgun tanks were always better off to run away than to try and fight. But now, the blaster tank must also run away with its tail between its legs, and now what's left to keep AV infantry in check? Infantry? Yeah right, a Six Kin SMG wielding heavy or a Six Kin Combat Rifle wielding Min commando can take care of itself on its own, unless it faces several infantry at once, but now we get to the same question infantry loves to ask, does it have to take more than one to kill one?
Because ultimately, tanks can be killed by one player, it's just that blaster tanks kept AV in check. Missile/railgun tanks were easy to deal with, while blaster tanks were an effective counter to AV while being countered by the missile/railgun tanks AV could counter easily.
CCP, remove large blaster dispersion. It took just as much skill to aim it as it did to aim a rifle anyways. All that typing and you missed it. Let me make it simple. Before you could do what you want, go where you want, sit where you want, kill what you want. Now if you sit still long enough, you die, see now you need infantry support..... Ahhhhh, you see the light? You must have infantry support to kill AV.... You can no longer do it alone. You also need to think tactically now, your approach, your position, your escape. The blaster turret should not be a kill every suit on the map without needing to reload. Use it to enage other vehicles, get a rifle and some skill to kill a bunch of infantry.
Im against slavery says the liberal, as he picks up his Iphone 5, made in China.
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INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC
467
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Posted - 2014.06.29 06:27:00 -
[16] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Harpyja wrote:But now, it's AV infantry > tank. As long as AV infantry doesn't begin the engagement within 20 meters of a blaster tank, they cannot be reliably countered. Missile/railgun tanks were always better off to run away than to try and fight. But now, the blaster tank must also run away with its tail between its legs, and now what's left to keep AV infantry in check? Infantry? Yeah right, a Six Kin SMG wielding heavy or a Six Kin Combat Rifle wielding Min commando can take care of itself on its own, unless it faces several infantry at once, but now we get to the same question infantry loves to ask, does it have to take more than one to kill one? The Six Kin H/SMG Sentinel can take care of itself, but at any point in time it can be killed by a single Infantry unit as well. However, you can't compare them to HAVs in the sense that unlike the sentinel, HAVs:
- Are Immune to 80% of all weapons in DUST 514
- Have speeds of 19.5m/s and 22.5m/s (about 5x faster than Sentinels)
- Boast 4150-5200 base eHP (about 5x higher than Sentinels)
- Have the ability to see threats around them (via 3rd Person View)
It is because of these extreme advantages that the HAV must sacrifice something, which in this case is it's effectiveness against Infantry (for the most part). Wait.. Are you implying that a Matari Commando can't be soloed? Harpyja wrote:Because ultimately, tanks can be killed by one player, it's just that blaster tanks kept AV in check. Missile/railgun tanks were easy to deal with, while blaster tanks were an effective counter to AV while being countered by the missile/railgun tanks AV could counter easily 80GJ Blasters were far too effective. A weapon being mounted onto something with at least 4150 eHP with speeds faster than a Light Frame, as well as being fully automatic and having a 300m range should never have a TTK that low. Harpyja wrote:CCP, remove large blaster dispersion. It took just as much skill to aim it as it did to aim a rifle anyways. I can guarantee that they won't, as 80GJ Blasters aren't meant to be Anti-Personnel weapons. Source: CCP Rattati wrote:Small Blaster ROF and dispersion were increased to make it easier to hit infantry, the intent was buff.
How did Rail and dmg mod nerf change AV-Vehicle balance?
The only change like Atiim says, PLC buff, AV grenade slight buff, two bugfixes and rep nerf. LB was never supposed to be anti-infantry. See, thats the problem, these scrub tankers want to kill infantry with a weapon made to kill other tanks. I like how tankers are indignant, I want my win button back against all infantry, waaaaaaa. I mean you guys had tanks you just put in park, set there, killed infantry for months like true noobs, didnt even have to back up from proto swarms on a triple rep Maddy, and now you come looking for a please give us our big machine gun back.
No, you are in tank, focus on vehicles noob.
Im against slavery says the liberal, as he picks up his Iphone 5, made in China.
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emm kay
Binary Mercs Canis Eliminatus Operatives
119
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Posted - 2014.06.29 08:06:00 -
[17] - Quote
Crimson ShieId wrote:I still have yet to be singled by a solo player unless my armor and shields have already been reduced, though I haven't played more than a handful of games in tanks (Testing the nerfs and all that good stuff) At this point, having a gunner is actually useful because small rails are more accurate than the blaster and can easily take out even the most brick tanked of heavies. I'd say people have just gotten too accustomed to having tanks unkillable by anything less than a crafty RE scout or three proto AV'ers. What we really need at this point are better tanks, all we've got is militia and basic. Get those advanced and proto tanks out again and I'm sure we'll see some good proto on proto fights. On the other hand, this week i have finished 5 tanks off with my advanced swarm launcher. It is not hard when you know what a tank is going for. The process has been the same every time.
Flux from the back. Tank moves forward, on to proxies, or back onto remotes. Finish him off with swarms.
--
You called, sir?
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Atiim
EnvyUs.
9989
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Posted - 2014.06.29 12:38:00 -
[18] - Quote
emm kay wrote: On the other hand, this week i have finished 5 tanks off with my advanced swarm launcher. It is not hard when you know what a tank is going for. The process has been the same every time.
Flux from the back. Tank moves forward, on to proxies, or back onto remotes. Finish him off with swarms.
If the vehicle user allows you to hit it with a Flux Grenade, and then trap it with Proximity Explosives then it was a bad tanker to begin with.
emm kay wrote:Edit: i would like to address the problem of tanks only being effective against other tanks. That is a horrible thing and needs to be fixed immediately. Do you know why? It's because the tank was invented to kill off infantry. Fact. According to CCP, HAVs (and Large/80GJ Turrets) were designed for AV and Infantry Suppression.
Taking Care of The Pilot Infestation in North American Skirmish
-HAND
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Pvt Numnutz
Watchdoge Explosives
1578
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Posted - 2014.06.29 12:58:00 -
[19] - Quote
fitting a small rail or two is a great way to add anti infantry and anti air capabilities to your tank. That's what I have always done for my missile tank as trying to kill infantry with my large missile turret is not only a waste of ammo but puts me in a very bad position should an enemy tank show up. Now it seems you have to fit for anti infantry, rather than relying on your primary turret for everything (in the blaster/rail's case) which is what a lot of AV players wanted anyway, it takes multiple people in a tank to be effective against both other tanks and infantry. Though if a proto av can solo a tank then it might have swung too far in AV favor. How easy is it to solo a tank in bravo? (id test but still no ps3 ) |
Atiim
EnvyUs.
9991
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Posted - 2014.06.29 13:02:00 -
[20] - Quote
Pvt Numnutz wrote:fThough if a proto av can solo a tank then it might have swung too far in AV favor. How easy is it to solo a tank in bravo? (id test but still no ps3 ) So one player being killed by one player is considered being "swung too far?"
It's about as easy as the pilot allows it to be.
Taking Care of The Pilot Infestation in North American Skirmish
-HAND
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Harpyja
Legio DXIV
1963
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Posted - 2014.06.29 13:17:00 -
[21] - Quote
Just FYI
First I'm not a Duna-wannabe. I only started to use a blaster tank yesterday because I was pissed off at all the proto AV that showed up for the event that were denying my missile Gunnlogi large portions of the map and I wanted to join the dark side of tanking. First game went I went unchallegend, but every game after that proto AV wrecked me because I couldn't combat them. I go down with the ship (tank) and I've always missile tanked, so whoever said I was a Duna-wannabe can **** off.
Second, I wanted large blasters nerfed. I wanted them to be AI, not AV. They should lose almost undoubtedly to a missile/armor tank (but even the neutron blaster is more than capable of killing shield and armor tanks).
Third, I want interplay between vehicles and infantry. There's no interplay anymore. Proto AV can push aside vehicles easily. It takes just one Ishukone Assault Forge Gun to deny any vehicle. It can deny tanks because they can't shoot back effectively. It can deny ADS because they can look straight up and an ADS can only take one, two hits at most before it needs to GTFO.
Don't you see the problem? It takes only one AVer to deny a vehicle. That's a 1-1 player ratio. You're saying that we need gunners for AI. I say bullshit, because now that's 2 people to kill 1. "It shouldn't take more than one person to kill one person." Well it takes multiple people to kill a forge gun fatty.
Also, "something shouldn't be its own counter." "Vehicles must run with infantry to be able to take care of AV." LOL, what double standards you stupid infantry got. Infantry must always be its own and only counter, because god forbid anything else can kill you! Why must I have to rely on someone else when you can solo?
Hell what's the purpose of bringing out a tank anymore if it can't fend for itself? To get popped? Well I don't have 40 million SP like you all and all of my 20 million is into vehicles, and I can't do sh*t anymore because there's no way for vehicles to combat AV anymore. You cry that we want an iWin button, but after everything infantry ended up with the iWin button. There's little SP difference between an effective AV and AI infantry. All you have to do is switch to some proto AV, deny an enemy vehicle, and switch back to your other suit.
Vehicles need to be able to fight back against AV infantry and only blaster tanks could do that. It was supposed to be Rock Paper Scissors. Blaster tanks beat AV infantry which beat missile/railgun tanks which beat blaster tanks. That's how you achieve best balance. Not AV infantry beats every vehicle.
I'm still sticking with my original thoughts. Remove large blaster turret dispersion. Also give them a damage multiplier of .67 against vehicles so they can't kill both infantry and vehicles.
"By His light, and His will"- The Scriptures, 12:32
--
"Scouts should fart repeatedly while cloaked"- TechMechMeds
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Harpyja
Legio DXIV
1963
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Posted - 2014.06.29 13:22:00 -
[22] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Pvt Numnutz wrote:fThough if a proto av can solo a tank then it might have swung too far in AV favor. How easy is it to solo a tank in bravo? (id test but still no ps3 ) So one player being killed by one player is considered being "swung too far?" It's about as easy as the pilot allows it to be. Stop being the stupid blueberry that you are Atiim. Why is it that I must have a gunner in my tank in addition to myself piloting the tank (that's 2 people if you can't add) to kill 1 AV person that can kill me effectively?
If you're so hell-bent on making large turrets useless against infantry, then one proto AV must be useless against tanks as well. We should be able to just about regen through one proto AV, that way it takes two to take us out.
"By His light, and His will"- The Scriptures, 12:32
--
"Scouts should fart repeatedly while cloaked"- TechMechMeds
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Pvt Numnutz
Watchdoge Explosives
1578
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Posted - 2014.06.29 13:24:00 -
[23] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Pvt Numnutz wrote:fThough if a proto av can solo a tank then it might have swung too far in AV favor. How easy is it to solo a tank in bravo? (id test but still no ps3 ) So one player being killed by one player is considered being "swung too far?" It's about as easy as the pilot allows it to be. I'm all for needing two av to counter two guys in a vehicle, needing to fit gunners to fight av and not being able to do everything solo in a vehicle. but you snipped out the part where I was talking about that. your answer to my question is vague. The reason I asked was because if it is a challenge to kill a tank solo then that might be fine but if its too easy for a single player to solo a tank (assuming same tier on tank and av player) then the balance might have swung too far. If a tank doesn't fit for anti infantry and leaves off his guns then a single AV players has a reasonable chance of killing that tank. If the tank decides to fit for anti infantry and brings a gunner or two along then it should give the tank the edge against that single AV player, meaning the AV player should have to bring his own back up to fight this multiple crew tank.
or is it okay for it to take two people in a tank to kill one AV player, and not okay for it to take two AV to kill one tank? |
Schecter 666
Minmatar Republic
79
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Posted - 2014.06.29 13:26:00 -
[24] - Quote
I finally saved up some skill points yesterday to get a decent foothold in the forge gun skill tree and WOW
dmca forge gun with only operation 4, reload 1, ammo 1 and 1x enhanced damage mod is incredible.
i need to unlock this on my account with 3xcomplex damage mods and caldari heavy suit, that will tear things apart but as it is, your theory of proto av soloing tanks is incorrect...ADV av solos tanks i had no problem putting any dropship pilot or tanker on their arse yesterday.
unfortunatley the account with complex damage mods and the caldari heavy just spent all its' passive SP yesterday on gallente scout, cos OP. |
Atiim
EnvyUs.
9991
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Posted - 2014.06.29 13:41:00 -
[25] - Quote
Harpyja wrote:Atiim wrote:Pvt Numnutz wrote:fThough if a proto av can solo a tank then it might have swung too far in AV favor. How easy is it to solo a tank in bravo? (id test but still no ps3 ) So one player being killed by one player is considered being "swung too far?" It's about as easy as the pilot allows it to be. Stop being the stupid blueberry that you are Atiim. Why is it that I must have a gunner in my tank in addition to myself piloting the tank (that's 2 people if you can't add) to kill 1 AV person that can kill me effectively? If you're so hell-bent on making large turrets useless against infantry, then one proto AV must be useless against tanks as well. We should be able to just about regen through one proto AV, that way it takes two to take us out. You call me a useless blueberry, yet you say that heavies can't be soloed. Seems legit.
Perhaps it's because that same AVer will be easily killed by any Infantry that happens to stroll by? When HAVs have a 350% eHP nerf, a -15m/s speed nerf, are restricted to first person, and their turrets have a 175m meter max range, then I'll agree to making a single AVer useless against a target.
Though you say this as if you can't kill Infantry... which is far from the case.
Taking Care of The Pilot Infestation in North American Skirmish
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Atiim
EnvyUs.
9991
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Posted - 2014.06.29 13:47:00 -
[26] - Quote
Pvt Numnutz wrote:Atiim wrote:Pvt Numnutz wrote:fThough if a proto av can solo a tank then it might have swung too far in AV favor. How easy is it to solo a tank in bravo? (id test but still no ps3 ) So one player being killed by one player is considered being "swung too far?" It's about as easy as the pilot allows it to be. I'm all for needing two av to counter two guys in a vehicle, needing to fit gunners to fight av and not being able to do everything solo in a vehicle. but you snipped out the part where I was talking about that. your answer to my question is vague. The reason I asked was because if it is a challenge to kill a tank solo then that might be fine but if its too easy for a single player to solo a tank (assuming same tier on tank and av player) then the balance might have swung too far. If a tank doesn't fit for anti infantry and leaves off his guns then a single AV players has a reasonable chance of killing that tank. If the tank decides to fit for anti infantry and brings a gunner or two along then it should give the tank the edge against that single AV player, meaning the AV player should have to bring his own back up to fight this multiple crew tank. or is it okay for it to take two people in a tank to kill one AV player, and not okay for it to take two AV to kill one tank? If an HAV (or any vehicle besides LAVs for that matter) decides to fit for Anti-Infantry, then yes it does give them an edge against the single AVer (20GJ Railguns & A/XT-1s 2-3HK most dropsuits).
As for your last paragraph, that is not the case. 1 HAV Pilot can still kill an AVer with an 80GJ Blaster, they simply need to be in CQC to do so.
Taking Care of The Pilot Infestation in North American Skirmish
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Harpyja
Legio DXIV
1963
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Posted - 2014.06.29 14:02:00 -
[27] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Pvt Numnutz wrote:Atiim wrote:Pvt Numnutz wrote:fThough if a proto av can solo a tank then it might have swung too far in AV favor. How easy is it to solo a tank in bravo? (id test but still no ps3 ) So one player being killed by one player is considered being "swung too far?" It's about as easy as the pilot allows it to be. I'm all for needing two av to counter two guys in a vehicle, needing to fit gunners to fight av and not being able to do everything solo in a vehicle. but you snipped out the part where I was talking about that. your answer to my question is vague. The reason I asked was because if it is a challenge to kill a tank solo then that might be fine but if its too easy for a single player to solo a tank (assuming same tier on tank and av player) then the balance might have swung too far. If a tank doesn't fit for anti infantry and leaves off his guns then a single AV players has a reasonable chance of killing that tank. If the tank decides to fit for anti infantry and brings a gunner or two along then it should give the tank the edge against that single AV player, meaning the AV player should have to bring his own back up to fight this multiple crew tank. or is it okay for it to take two people in a tank to kill one AV player, and not okay for it to take two AV to kill one tank? If an HAV (or any vehicle besides LAVs for that matter) decides to fit for Anti-Infantry, then yes it does give them an edge against the single AVer (20GJ Railguns & A/XT-1s 2-3HK most dropsuits). As for your last paragraph, that is not the case. 1 HAV Pilot can still kill an AVer with an 80GJ Blaster, they simply need to be in CQC to do so. You still haven't answered, why should it take two people to kill one then?
And LOL if you think a blaster is still effective. You're practically dead by the time you get to within 10 meters to kill fatman and his forge gun, at which point you get some nasty AV grenades and POP GOES THE WEASEL.
Also why should it take infantry to counter infantry. Why must I run with infantry while infantry don't have to run with tanks? It'd make sense if they have to run with a missile/railgun tank to protect them for a blaster tank. But now that blasters have been nerfed, they are no longer threats on the battlefield and there's no reason to run with friendly tanks, because INFANTRY CAN DO IT ALL.
"By His light, and His will"- The Scriptures, 12:32
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"Scouts should fart repeatedly while cloaked"- TechMechMeds
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Pvt Numnutz
Watchdoge Explosives
1580
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Posted - 2014.06.29 14:12:00 -
[28] - Quote
Atiim wrote: If an HAV (or any vehicle besides LAVs for that matter) decides to fit for Anti-Infantry, then yes it does give them an edge against the single AVer (20GJ Railguns & A/XT-1s 2-3HK most dropsuits).
As for your last paragraph, that is not the case. 1 HAV Pilot can still kill an AVer with an 80GJ Blaster, they simply need to be in CQC to do so.
That may be true for a blaster tank, however for missile tanks and rails to a lesser extent, you need to have at least one gunner to fight infantry threats. if you want to fit a top turret (best position for a small turret) you have to fit two turrets which decreases your tank. I'm very curious to know the average range that blaster tanks have to engage to get reliable anti infantry coverage (without forum over exaggeration) to judge just how viable it is to engage an infantry player with a tank. If the operator is putting the tank at more risk by moving too close to engage then its not worth engaging with the main turret. As you have said, CCP has stated the blaster was for AV and infantry suppression. It wouldn't be a stretch to infer that it too would need to fit for anti infantry as its main turret is for suppressing infantry that aren't equipped to fight back. Trying to suppress a swarmer or forger who has a piece of cover is pointless as they will just shoot swarms around the wall or hop in and out of cover to shoot. So it seems that tanks now have to fit at least one gun and have a gunner to have a counter to infantry, so if a tank has a gunner or two and goes up against a single AV player then the tank should* (dependent on crew performance/AV skill) win. If there are two AV players going up against a multi crew tank then it should be a pretty balanced fight. My only concern is when I hear about adv AV being able to solo complex fitted tanks with ease. Av should have a reasonable chance to kill a solo tanker, but it shouldn't be easy. |
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