I still have yet to be singled by a solo player unless my armor and shields have already been reduced, though I haven't played more than a handful of games in tanks (Testing the nerfs and all that good stuff) At this point, having a gunner is actually useful because small rails are more accurate than the blaster and can easily take out even the most brick tanked of heavies. I'd say people have just gotten too accustomed to having tanks unkillable by anything less than a crafty RE scout or three proto AV'ers. What we really need at this point are better tanks, all we've got is militia and basic. Get those advanced and proto tanks out again and I'm sure we'll see some good proto on proto fights.

Yes, we can't achieve balance until we get advanced and prototype vehicle hulls. Then AV and vehicles can be properly balanced by their tiers.

Because right now, how do you balance? By tier? That would make standard AV balanced against standard vehicles, but proto AV will be incredibly OP. Then you can make proto AV balanced against proto vehicles, but now you get useless standard and advanced AV.

I think the only solution to this never ending problem is to bring in advanced and proto vehicles.

you think i know...the balance has been swung the other way AGAIN

I thought back in 1.6 even basic AV could solo any vehicle... I remember always fitting packed Av grenades(Basic) and a nanohive, on all dropsuits, if a tank showed up, I would drop a nanohive, and begin just throwing those Av grenades, boom took like 3-5 to kill a tank, more if it was an enforcer.

Yes, we can't achieve balance until we get advanced and prototype vehicle hulls. Then AV and vehicles can be properly balanced by their tiers.

Because right now, how do you balance? By tier? That would make standard AV balanced against standard vehicles, but proto AV will be incredibly OP. Then you can make proto AV balanced against proto vehicles, but now you get useless standard and advanced AV.

I think the only solution to this never ending problem is to bring in advanced and proto vehicles.

... (I know I'm going to get flamed) but I'm thinking that AV is returning to 1.6 levels where proto AV can solo tanks again.

Yesterday and today were rather frustrating due to the event, because now any AV is proto AV. So now, proto AV is being "stress tested." Call me crazy but I think proto AV is actually a bit OP. One person can now effectively destroy any tank using proto AV.

Here's why: nerf to blaster dispersion. I think that large blasters were the only turrets capable of keeping AV in check from becoming too powerful. Blaster tanks could effectively combat any single AV infantry from a safe distance. Now, though, if I want to kill an infantryman effectively, I must do so at under 20 meters.

In other words, I can no longer deal with AV infantry effectively. They cannot fear me anymore. I must fear just one single proto AV because I cannot shoot reliably enough anymore to deal with them.

aIt used to be AV infantry > AV tank (missiles and railguns) > AI tank (blasters) > AV infantry. While a few AV infantry could take out a blaster tank, a blaster tank could counter them rather effectively.

But now, it's AV infantry > tank. As long as AV infantry doesn't begin the engagement within 20 meters of a blaster tank, they cannot be reliably countered. Missile/railgun tanks were always better off to run away than to try and fight. But now, the blaster tank must also run away with its tail between its legs, and now what's left to keep AV infantry in check? Infantry? Yeah right, a Six Kin SMG wielding heavy or a Six Kin Combat Rifle wielding Min commando can take care of itself on its own, unless it faces several infantry at once, but now we get to the same question infantry loves to ask, does it have to take more than one to kill one?

Because ultimately, tanks can be killed by one player, it's just that blaster tanks kept AV in check. Missile/railgun tanks were easy to deal with, while blaster tanks were an effective counter to AV while being countered by the missile/railgun tanks AV could counter easily

CCP, remove large blaster dispersion. It took just as much skill to aim it as it did to aim a rifle anyways.

Small Blaster ROF and dispersion were increased to make it easier to hit infantry, the intent was buff.

How did Rail and dmg mod nerf change AV-Vehicle balance?

The only change like Atiim says, PLC buff, AV grenade slight buff, two bugfixes and rep nerf. LB was never supposed to be anti-infantry.

... (I know I'm going to get flamed) but I'm thinking that AV is returning to 1.6 levels where proto AV can solo tanks again.

Yesterday and today were rather frustrating due to the event, because now any AV is proto AV. So now, proto AV is being "stress tested." Call me crazy but I think proto AV is actually a bit OP. One person can now effectively destroy any tank using proto AV.

Here's why: nerf to blaster dispersion. I think that large blasters were the only turrets capable of keeping AV in check from becoming too powerful. Blaster tanks could effectively combat any single AV infantry from a safe distance. Now, though, if I want to kill an infantryman effectively, I must do so at under 20 meters.

In other words, I can no longer deal with AV infantry effectively. They cannot fear me anymore. I must fear just one single proto AV because I cannot shoot reliably enough anymore to deal with them.

It used to be AV infantry > AV tank (missiles and railguns) > AI tank (blasters) > AV infantry. While a few AV infantry could take out a blaster tank, a blaster tank could counter them rather effectively.

But now, it's AV infantry > tank. As long as AV infantry doesn't begin the engagement within 20 meters of a blaster tank, they cannot be reliably countered. Missile/railgun tanks were always better off to run away than to try and fight. But now, the blaster tank must also run away with its tail between its legs, and now what's left to keep AV infantry in check? Infantry? Yeah right, a Six Kin SMG wielding heavy or a Six Kin Combat Rifle wielding Min commando can take care of itself on its own, unless it faces several infantry at once, but now we get to the same question infantry loves to ask, does it have to take more than one to kill one?

Because ultimately, tanks can be killed by one player, it's just that blaster tanks kept AV in check. Missile/railgun tanks were easy to deal with, while blaster tanks were an effective counter to AV while being countered by the missile/railgun tanks AV could counter easily.

CCP, remove large blaster dispersion. It took just as much skill to aim it as it did to aim a rifle anyways.

The Six Kin H/SMG Sentinel can take care of itself, but at any point in time it can be killed by a single Infantry unit as well. However, you can't compare them to HAVs in the sense that unlike the sentinel, HAVs:

• Are Immune to 80% of all weapons in DUST 514
• Have speeds of 19.5m/s and 22.5m/s (about 5x faster than Sentinels)
• Boast 4150-5200 base eHP (about 5x higher than Sentinels)
• Have the ability to see threats around them (via 3rd Person View)

It is because of these extreme advantages that the HAV must sacrifice something, which in this case is it's effectiveness against Infantry (for the most part).

Wait.. Are you implying that a Matari Commando can't be soloed?


80GJ Blasters were far too effective. A weapon being mounted onto something with at least 4150 eHP with speeds faster than a Light Frame, as well as being fully automatic and having a 300m range should never have a TTK that low.


I can guarantee that they won't, as 80GJ Blasters aren't meant to be Anti-Personnel weapons.

Source:

I still have yet to be singled by a solo player unless my armor and shields have already been reduced, though I haven't played more than a handful of games in tanks (Testing the nerfs and all that good stuff) At this point, having a gunner is actually useful because small rails are more accurate than the blaster and can easily take out even the most brick tanked of heavies. I'd say people have just gotten too accustomed to having tanks unkillable by anything less than a crafty RE scout or three proto AV'ers. What we really need at this point are better tanks, all we've got is militia and basic. Get those advanced and proto tanks out again and I'm sure we'll see some good proto on proto fights.

On the other hand, this week i have finished 5 tanks off with my advanced swarm launcher.
It is not hard when you know what a tank is going for. The process has been the same every time.

Flux from the back.
Tank moves forward, on to proxies, or back onto remotes.
Finish him off with swarms.

Edit: i would like to address the problem of tanks only being effective against other tanks. That is a horrible thing and needs to be fixed immediately. Do you know why? It's because the tank was invented to kill off infantry. Fact.

fThough if a proto av can solo a tank then it might have swung too far in AV favor. How easy is it to solo a tank in bravo? (id test but still no ps3 )

So one player being killed by one player is considered being "swung too far?"

It's about as easy as the pilot allows it to be.

So one player being killed by one player is considered being "swung too far?"

It's about as easy as the pilot allows it to be.

Stop being the stupid blueberry that you are Atiim. Why is it that I must have a gunner in my tank in addition to myself piloting the tank (that's 2 people if you can't add) to kill 1 AV person that can kill me effectively?

If you're so hell-bent on making large turrets useless against infantry, then one proto AV must be useless against tanks as well. We should be able to just about regen through one proto AV, that way it takes two to take us out.

I'm all for needing two av to counter two guys in a vehicle, needing to fit gunners to fight av and not being able to do everything solo in a vehicle. but you snipped out the part where I was talking about that.
your answer to my question is vague. The reason I asked was because if it is a challenge to kill a tank solo then that might be fine but if its too easy for a single player to solo a tank (assuming same tier on tank and av player) then the balance might have swung too far. If a tank doesn't fit for anti infantry and leaves off his guns then a single AV players has a reasonable chance of killing that tank. If the tank decides to fit for anti infantry and brings a gunner or two along then it should give the tank the edge against that single AV player, meaning the AV player should have to bring his own back up to fight this multiple crew tank.

or is it okay for it to take two people in a tank to kill one AV player, and not okay for it to take two AV to kill one tank?

If an HAV (or any vehicle besides LAVs for that matter) decides to fit for Anti-Infantry, then yes it does give them an edge against the single AVer (20GJ Railguns & A/XT-1s 2-3HK most dropsuits).

As for your last paragraph, that is not the case. 1 HAV Pilot can still kill an AVer with an 80GJ Blaster, they simply need to be in CQC to do so.

If an HAV (or any vehicle besides LAVs for that matter) decides to fit for Anti-Infantry, then yes it does give them an edge against the single AVer (20GJ Railguns & A/XT-1s 2-3HK most dropsuits).

As for your last paragraph, that is not the case. 1 HAV Pilot can still kill an AVer with an 80GJ Blaster, they simply need to be in CQC to do so.