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Harpyja
Legio DXIV
1957
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Posted - 2014.06.28 22:13:00 -
[1] - Quote
... (I know I'm going to get flamed) but I'm thinking that AV is returning to 1.6 levels where proto AV can solo tanks again.
Yesterday and today were rather frustrating due to the event, because now any AV is proto AV. So now, proto AV is being "stress tested." Call me crazy but I think proto AV is actually a bit OP. One person can now effectively destroy any tank using proto AV.
Here's why: nerf to blaster dispersion. I think that large blasters were the only turrets capable of keeping AV in check from becoming too powerful. Blaster tanks could effectively combat any single AV infantry from a safe distance. Now, though, if I want to kill an infantryman effectively, I must do so at under 20 meters.
In other words, I can no longer deal with AV infantry effectively. They cannot fear me anymore. I must fear just one single proto AV because I cannot shoot reliably enough anymore to deal with them.
It used to be AV infantry > AV tank (missiles and railguns) > AI tank (blasters) > AV infantry. While a few AV infantry could take out a blaster tank, a blaster tank could counter them rather effectively.
But now, it's AV infantry > tank. As long as AV infantry doesn't begin the engagement within 20 meters of a blaster tank, they cannot be reliably countered. Missile/railgun tanks were always better off to run away than to try and fight. But now, the blaster tank must also run away with its tail between its legs, and now what's left to keep AV infantry in check? Infantry? Yeah right, a Six Kin SMG wielding heavy or a Six Kin Combat Rifle wielding Min commando can take care of itself on its own, unless it faces several infantry at once, but now we get to the same question infantry loves to ask, does it have to take more than one to kill one?
Because ultimately, tanks can be killed by one player, it's just that blaster tanks kept AV in check. Missile/railgun tanks were easy to deal with, while blaster tanks were an effective counter to AV while being countered by the missile/railgun tanks AV could counter easily.
CCP, remove large blaster dispersion. It took just as much skill to aim it as it did to aim a rifle anyways.
"By His light, and His will"- The Scriptures, 12:32
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"Scouts should fart repeatedly while cloaked"- TechMechMeds
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Harpyja
Legio DXIV
1958
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Posted - 2014.06.28 22:48:00 -
[2] - Quote
Crimson ShieId wrote:I still have yet to be singled by a solo player unless my armor and shields have already been reduced, though I haven't played more than a handful of games in tanks (Testing the nerfs and all that good stuff) At this point, having a gunner is actually useful because small rails are more accurate than the blaster and can easily take out even the most brick tanked of heavies. I'd say people have just gotten too accustomed to having tanks unkillable by anything less than a crafty RE scout or three proto AV'ers. What we really need at this point are better tanks, all we've got is militia and basic. Get those advanced and proto tanks out again and I'm sure we'll see some good proto on proto fights.
Yes, we can't achieve balance until we get advanced and prototype vehicle hulls. Then AV and vehicles can be properly balanced by their tiers.
Because right now, how do you balance? By tier? That would make standard AV balanced against standard vehicles, but proto AV will be incredibly OP. Then you can make proto AV balanced against proto vehicles, but now you get useless standard and advanced AV.
I think the only solution to this never ending problem is to bring in advanced and proto vehicles.
"By His light, and His will"- The Scriptures, 12:32
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"Scouts should fart repeatedly while cloaked"- TechMechMeds
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Harpyja
Legio DXIV
1958
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Posted - 2014.06.28 22:55:00 -
[3] - Quote
Mortedeamor wrote:you think i know...the balance has been swung the other way AGAIN
I guess our 6 months of being powerful are over and it's AV's turn now. Again.
"By His light, and His will"- The Scriptures, 12:32
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"Scouts should fart repeatedly while cloaked"- TechMechMeds
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Harpyja
Legio DXIV
1960
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Posted - 2014.06.29 04:57:00 -
[4] - Quote
Louis Domi wrote:I thought back in 1.6 even basic AV could solo any vehicle... I remember always fitting packed Av grenades(Basic) and a nanohive, on all dropsuits, if a tank showed up, I would drop a nanohive, and begin just throwing those Av grenades, boom took like 3-5 to kill a tank, more if it was an enforcer.
I only had complaints about proto AV in 1.6. Advanced AV was fine while proto AV was just overkill. It took just one Ishukone Assault Forge Gun to show up on the kill feed to make me play extremely cautious with my Gunnlogi, if not make a full retreat.
"By His light, and His will"- The Scriptures, 12:32
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"Scouts should fart repeatedly while cloaked"- TechMechMeds
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Harpyja
Legio DXIV
1963
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Posted - 2014.06.29 13:17:00 -
[5] - Quote
Just FYI
First I'm not a Duna-wannabe. I only started to use a blaster tank yesterday because I was pissed off at all the proto AV that showed up for the event that were denying my missile Gunnlogi large portions of the map and I wanted to join the dark side of tanking. First game went I went unchallegend, but every game after that proto AV wrecked me because I couldn't combat them. I go down with the ship (tank) and I've always missile tanked, so whoever said I was a Duna-wannabe can **** off.
Second, I wanted large blasters nerfed. I wanted them to be AI, not AV. They should lose almost undoubtedly to a missile/armor tank (but even the neutron blaster is more than capable of killing shield and armor tanks).
Third, I want interplay between vehicles and infantry. There's no interplay anymore. Proto AV can push aside vehicles easily. It takes just one Ishukone Assault Forge Gun to deny any vehicle. It can deny tanks because they can't shoot back effectively. It can deny ADS because they can look straight up and an ADS can only take one, two hits at most before it needs to GTFO.
Don't you see the problem? It takes only one AVer to deny a vehicle. That's a 1-1 player ratio. You're saying that we need gunners for AI. I say bullshit, because now that's 2 people to kill 1. "It shouldn't take more than one person to kill one person." Well it takes multiple people to kill a forge gun fatty.
Also, "something shouldn't be its own counter." "Vehicles must run with infantry to be able to take care of AV." LOL, what double standards you stupid infantry got. Infantry must always be its own and only counter, because god forbid anything else can kill you! Why must I have to rely on someone else when you can solo?
Hell what's the purpose of bringing out a tank anymore if it can't fend for itself? To get popped? Well I don't have 40 million SP like you all and all of my 20 million is into vehicles, and I can't do sh*t anymore because there's no way for vehicles to combat AV anymore. You cry that we want an iWin button, but after everything infantry ended up with the iWin button. There's little SP difference between an effective AV and AI infantry. All you have to do is switch to some proto AV, deny an enemy vehicle, and switch back to your other suit.
Vehicles need to be able to fight back against AV infantry and only blaster tanks could do that. It was supposed to be Rock Paper Scissors. Blaster tanks beat AV infantry which beat missile/railgun tanks which beat blaster tanks. That's how you achieve best balance. Not AV infantry beats every vehicle.
I'm still sticking with my original thoughts. Remove large blaster turret dispersion. Also give them a damage multiplier of .67 against vehicles so they can't kill both infantry and vehicles.
"By His light, and His will"- The Scriptures, 12:32
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"Scouts should fart repeatedly while cloaked"- TechMechMeds
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Harpyja
Legio DXIV
1963
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Posted - 2014.06.29 13:22:00 -
[6] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Pvt Numnutz wrote:fThough if a proto av can solo a tank then it might have swung too far in AV favor. How easy is it to solo a tank in bravo? (id test but still no ps3  ) So one player being killed by one player is considered being "swung too far?"  It's about as easy as the pilot allows it to be.
Stop being the stupid blueberry that you are Atiim. Why is it that I must have a gunner in my tank in addition to myself piloting the tank (that's 2 people if you can't add) to kill 1 AV person that can kill me effectively?
If you're so hell-bent on making large turrets useless against infantry, then one proto AV must be useless against tanks as well. We should be able to just about regen through one proto AV, that way it takes two to take us out.
"By His light, and His will"- The Scriptures, 12:32
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"Scouts should fart repeatedly while cloaked"- TechMechMeds
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Harpyja
Legio DXIV
1963
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Posted - 2014.06.29 14:02:00 -
[7] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Pvt Numnutz wrote:Atiim wrote:Pvt Numnutz wrote:fThough if a proto av can solo a tank then it might have swung too far in AV favor. How easy is it to solo a tank in bravo? (id test but still no ps3 ) So one player being killed by one player is considered being "swung too far?" It's about as easy as the pilot allows it to be. I'm all for needing two av to counter two guys in a vehicle, needing to fit gunners to fight av and not being able to do everything solo in a vehicle. but you snipped out the part where I was talking about that. your answer to my question is vague. The reason I asked was because if it is a challenge to kill a tank solo then that might be fine but if its too easy for a single player to solo a tank (assuming same tier on tank and av player) then the balance might have swung too far. If a tank doesn't fit for anti infantry and leaves off his guns then a single AV players has a reasonable chance of killing that tank. If the tank decides to fit for anti infantry and brings a gunner or two along then it should give the tank the edge against that single AV player, meaning the AV player should have to bring his own back up to fight this multiple crew tank. or is it okay for it to take two people in a tank to kill one AV player, and not okay for it to take two AV to kill one tank? If an HAV (or any vehicle besides LAVs for that matter) decides to fit for Anti-Infantry, then yes it does give them an edge against the single AVer (20GJ Railguns & A/XT-1s 2-3HK most dropsuits). As for your last paragraph, that is not the case. 1 HAV Pilot can still kill an AVer with an 80GJ Blaster, they simply need to be in CQC to do so.
You still haven't answered, why should it take two people to kill one then?
And LOL if you think a blaster is still effective. You're practically dead by the time you get to within 10 meters to kill fatman and his forge gun, at which point you get some nasty AV grenades and POP GOES THE WEASEL.
Also why should it take infantry to counter infantry. Why must I run with infantry while infantry don't have to run with tanks? It'd make sense if they have to run with a missile/railgun tank to protect them for a blaster tank. But now that blasters have been nerfed, they are no longer threats on the battlefield and there's no reason to run with friendly tanks, because INFANTRY CAN DO IT ALL.
"By His light, and His will"- The Scriptures, 12:32
--
"Scouts should fart repeatedly while cloaked"- TechMechMeds
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