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Atiim
EnvyUs.
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Posted - 2014.06.29 06:05:00 -
[1] - Quote
Harpyja wrote:... (I know I'm going to get flamed) but I'm thinking that AV is returning to 1.6 levels where proto AV can solo tanks again. And PRO AV soloing HAVs is a problem. how exactly?
Harpyja wrote:Yesterday and today were rather frustrating due to the event, because now any AV is proto AV. So now, proto AV is being "stress tested." Call me crazy but I think proto AV is actually a bit OP. One person can now effectively destroy any tank using proto AV. So a player being able to effectively destroy HAVs with PRO AV is a problem, how exactly?
Harpyja wrote:Here's why: nerf to blaster dispersion. I think that large blasters were the only turrets capable of keeping AV in check from becoming too powerful. Blaster tanks could effectively combat any single AV infantry from a safe distance. Now, though, if I want to kill an infantryman effectively, I must do so at under 20 meters. Considering how 80GJ Blasters were never supposed to be Anti-Personnel weapons in the first place, I find no problem in having to be within extreme range to do so.
Harpyja wrote:In other words, I can no longer deal with AV infantry effectively. They cannot fear me anymore. I must fear just one single proto AV because I cannot shoot reliably enough anymore to deal with them. Most AVers can't strafe to save their lives, so perhaps you should try using Large Missiles against them. I find them to be rather reliable when I'm patient as opposed to dumping the entire magazine.
Harpya wrote:aIt used to be AV infantry > AV tank (missiles and railguns) > AI tank (blasters) > AV infantry. While a few AV infantry could take out a blaster tank, a blaster tank could counter them rather effectively. Actually, it was AV Tank (80GJ Blaster; Railgun) > AV Infantry (SLs and FG) < Infantry.
Taking Care of The Pilot Infestation in North American Skirmish
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Atiim
EnvyUs.
9977
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Posted - 2014.06.29 06:06:00 -
[2] - Quote
Harpyja wrote:But now, it's AV infantry > tank. As long as AV infantry doesn't begin the engagement within 20 meters of a blaster tank, they cannot be reliably countered. Missile/railgun tanks were always better off to run away than to try and fight. But now, the blaster tank must also run away with its tail between its legs, and now what's left to keep AV infantry in check? Infantry? Yeah right, a Six Kin SMG wielding heavy or a Six Kin Combat Rifle wielding Min commando can take care of itself on its own, unless it faces several infantry at once, but now we get to the same question infantry loves to ask, does it have to take more than one to kill one? The Six Kin H/SMG Sentinel can take care of itself, but at any point in time it can be killed by a single Infantry unit as well. However, you can't compare them to HAVs in the sense that unlike the sentinel, HAVs:
- Are Immune to 80% of all weapons in DUST 514
- Have speeds of 19.5m/s and 22.5m/s (about 5x faster than Sentinels)
- Boast 4150-5200 base eHP (about 5x higher than Sentinels)
- Have the ability to see threats around them (via 3rd Person View)
It is because of these extreme advantages that the HAV must sacrifice something, which in this case is it's effectiveness against Infantry (for the most part).
Wait.. Are you implying that a Matari Commando can't be soloed?
Harpyja wrote:Because ultimately, tanks can be killed by one player, it's just that blaster tanks kept AV in check. Missile/railgun tanks were easy to deal with, while blaster tanks were an effective counter to AV while being countered by the missile/railgun tanks AV could counter easily 80GJ Blasters were far too effective. A weapon being mounted onto something with at least 4150 eHP with speeds faster than a Light Frame, as well as being fully automatic and having a 300m range should never have a TTK that low.
Harpyja wrote:CCP, remove large blaster dispersion. It took just as much skill to aim it as it did to aim a rifle anyways. I can guarantee that they won't, as 80GJ Blasters aren't meant to be Anti-Personnel weapons.
Source:
CCP Rattati wrote:Small Blaster ROF and dispersion were increased to make it easier to hit infantry, the intent was buff.
How did Rail and dmg mod nerf change AV-Vehicle balance?
The only change like Atiim says, PLC buff, AV grenade slight buff, two bugfixes and rep nerf. LB was never supposed to be anti-infantry.
Taking Care of The Pilot Infestation in North American Skirmish
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Atiim
EnvyUs.
9989
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Posted - 2014.06.29 12:38:00 -
[3] - Quote
emm kay wrote: On the other hand, this week i have finished 5 tanks off with my advanced swarm launcher. It is not hard when you know what a tank is going for. The process has been the same every time.
Flux from the back. Tank moves forward, on to proxies, or back onto remotes. Finish him off with swarms.
If the vehicle user allows you to hit it with a Flux Grenade, and then trap it with Proximity Explosives then it was a bad tanker to begin with.
emm kay wrote:Edit: i would like to address the problem of tanks only being effective against other tanks. That is a horrible thing and needs to be fixed immediately. Do you know why? It's because the tank was invented to kill off infantry. Fact. According to CCP, HAVs (and Large/80GJ Turrets) were designed for AV and Infantry Suppression.
Taking Care of The Pilot Infestation in North American Skirmish
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Atiim
EnvyUs.
9991
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Posted - 2014.06.29 13:02:00 -
[4] - Quote
Pvt Numnutz wrote:fThough if a proto av can solo a tank then it might have swung too far in AV favor. How easy is it to solo a tank in bravo? (id test but still no ps3 ) So one player being killed by one player is considered being "swung too far?"
It's about as easy as the pilot allows it to be.
Taking Care of The Pilot Infestation in North American Skirmish
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Atiim
EnvyUs.
9991
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Posted - 2014.06.29 13:41:00 -
[5] - Quote
Harpyja wrote:Atiim wrote:Pvt Numnutz wrote:fThough if a proto av can solo a tank then it might have swung too far in AV favor. How easy is it to solo a tank in bravo? (id test but still no ps3 ) So one player being killed by one player is considered being "swung too far?" It's about as easy as the pilot allows it to be. Stop being the stupid blueberry that you are Atiim. Why is it that I must have a gunner in my tank in addition to myself piloting the tank (that's 2 people if you can't add) to kill 1 AV person that can kill me effectively? If you're so hell-bent on making large turrets useless against infantry, then one proto AV must be useless against tanks as well. We should be able to just about regen through one proto AV, that way it takes two to take us out. You call me a useless blueberry, yet you say that heavies can't be soloed. Seems legit.
Perhaps it's because that same AVer will be easily killed by any Infantry that happens to stroll by? When HAVs have a 350% eHP nerf, a -15m/s speed nerf, are restricted to first person, and their turrets have a 175m meter max range, then I'll agree to making a single AVer useless against a target.
Though you say this as if you can't kill Infantry... which is far from the case.
Taking Care of The Pilot Infestation in North American Skirmish
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Atiim
EnvyUs.
9991
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Posted - 2014.06.29 13:47:00 -
[6] - Quote
Pvt Numnutz wrote:Atiim wrote:Pvt Numnutz wrote:fThough if a proto av can solo a tank then it might have swung too far in AV favor. How easy is it to solo a tank in bravo? (id test but still no ps3 ) So one player being killed by one player is considered being "swung too far?" It's about as easy as the pilot allows it to be. I'm all for needing two av to counter two guys in a vehicle, needing to fit gunners to fight av and not being able to do everything solo in a vehicle. but you snipped out the part where I was talking about that. your answer to my question is vague. The reason I asked was because if it is a challenge to kill a tank solo then that might be fine but if its too easy for a single player to solo a tank (assuming same tier on tank and av player) then the balance might have swung too far. If a tank doesn't fit for anti infantry and leaves off his guns then a single AV players has a reasonable chance of killing that tank. If the tank decides to fit for anti infantry and brings a gunner or two along then it should give the tank the edge against that single AV player, meaning the AV player should have to bring his own back up to fight this multiple crew tank. or is it okay for it to take two people in a tank to kill one AV player, and not okay for it to take two AV to kill one tank? If an HAV (or any vehicle besides LAVs for that matter) decides to fit for Anti-Infantry, then yes it does give them an edge against the single AVer (20GJ Railguns & A/XT-1s 2-3HK most dropsuits).
As for your last paragraph, that is not the case. 1 HAV Pilot can still kill an AVer with an 80GJ Blaster, they simply need to be in CQC to do so.
Taking Care of The Pilot Infestation in North American Skirmish
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