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Bethhy
Ancient Exiles. General Tso's Alliance
2007
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Posted - 2014.06.25 20:44:00 -
[1] - Quote
This seems that it will always be an issue of contention in a F2P game model.
What if you could "Un-train" Skill points, bare with me.
What if you could put on hold your passive skill point accumulation to "Un-train" a skill at 5x the skill-point gain you would gain from your normal passive SP gain that adds to the total SP value of your character.
this will at least give all players a hard choice at the beginning and a clear consequence, and then conception of players choice around the allocation in a persistent free to play game model.
Playing EVE online for over a decade now I get the idea of persistent locked in static skills, I still look back and remember the moment of getting certain skills, ships and achievements in EVE as connected parts of the experience and memory of that hobby.
But with DUST's atmosphere and the nature of this issue never ever going away even in Legion there has to be some dialogue started on how to give players an option to deal with an unwanted skill or even skills that have been obsoleted to the players intent by on going game development. |
THUNDERGROOVE
Fatal Absolution
965
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Posted - 2014.06.26 00:20:00 -
[2] - Quote
I'm usually against this kind of stuff but this is actually a really cool idea.
The Amarr scout bonus is like the old Amarr sentinel bonus. No one needed 25% reduction to overheat damage on a heavy;_;
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Thokk Nightshade
KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND
405
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Posted - 2014.06.26 01:49:00 -
[3] - Quote
Like Thundergroove said, This is one concept I could get behind. Since you are not doing a straight "respec" and you are NOT accruing passive SP at the same time, It makes it a much more difficult decision.
Also, I would love to "Forget" all my Sniper skills I'm maxed on since they nerfed the entire playstyle into oblivion (outside the Thales) and put them to actual use.
Thokk Kill. Thokk Crush. Thokk Smash.
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Bethhy
Ancient Exiles. General Tso's Alliance
2010
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Posted - 2014.06.26 05:45:00 -
[4] - Quote
Thokk Nightshade wrote:Like Thundergroove said, This is one concept I could get behind. Since you are not doing a straight "respec" and you are NOT accruing passive SP at the same time, It makes it a much more difficult decision. Also, I would love to "Forget" all my Sniper skills I'm maxed on since they nerfed the entire playstyle into oblivion (outside the Thales) and put them to actual use.
The Re-spec issue is always going to be there sadly, and instead of it being an off putting factor for the masses in a free to play game model and a point of contention between both points of view.
Might as well build in the framework of player choice in the matter and try and make it a positive situation all around with clear choices from the start. |
Lorhak Gannarsein
Legio DXIV
3808
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Posted - 2014.06.26 10:15:00 -
[5] - Quote
I would sacrifice 19 days of passive under this framework and get back 2.3M SP, less if passive boosters applied to it.
This would be enough time for me to accrue a paltry amount of SP; I like the concept but I think the speed is too great.
CCP Rattati Best Dev
AmLogi 5 GÇó AmAss 5 GÇó AmSent 4 GÇó CalScout 5
CalLogi, you're next!
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Bethhy
Ancient Exiles. General Tso's Alliance
2013
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Posted - 2014.06.26 18:01:00 -
[6] - Quote
Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:I would sacrifice 19 days of passive under this framework and get back 2.3M SP, less if passive boosters applied to it.
This would be enough time for me to accrue a paltry amount of SP; I like the concept but I think the speed is too great.
Yes I would assume math and someone adept at spreadsheets could do much better with the raw numbers and data.. |
Tebu Gan
Dem Durrty Boyz General Tso's Alliance
1019
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Posted - 2014.06.26 19:53:00 -
[7] - Quote
Bethhy wrote:It seems "Re-spec's" will always be an issue of contention in a F2P game model. What if you could "Un-train" Skill points, bare with me. What if you could put on hold your passive skill point accumulation, to "Un-train" a skill at 5x the speed you would accumulate from your normal passive SP gain that adds to the total SP value of your character; thus recycling your SP instead of increasing the total value. And let's face it, forgetting something is at least 5x easier then learning it this will at least give all players a hard choice at the beginning and a clear consequence, and then conception of players choice around the allocation in a persistent free to play game model. Playing EVE online for over a decade now I get the idea of persistent locked in static skills, I still look back and remember the moment of getting certain skills, ships and achievements in EVE as connected parts of the experience and memory of that hobby. But with DUST's atmosphere and the nature of this issue never ever going away even in Legion, there has to be some dialogue started on how to give players an option to deal with an unwanted skill or even skills that have been obsoleted to the players intent by on going game development.
I wish forgetting certain things was only that easy!
Tanks - Balancing Turrets
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
3831
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Posted - 2014.06.26 20:13:00 -
[8] - Quote
I liked this idea the first time I saw it posted in the Legion Progression thread. I still like it. It would mean that people can adjust for changes (nerfs/buffs), but it would take time and sacrifice to do so.
I expect that I would never use this feature myself, better to just grind up the new skills, but some people would really like the option.
Also, I donGÇÖt think the turning off Passive Skill point accumulation while unlearning was included the first time I saw this idea. That adds an extra element of sacrifice that makes me like it even better.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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bogeyman m
Minmatar Republic
284
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Posted - 2014.06.27 04:33:00 -
[9] - Quote
What if, more simply, SP investments only lasted 12 months (for example) before timing out and returning to your SP pool? You would effectively 'forget' a skill every 12 months, without loosing the SP credit, and would just retrain that skill, if you wanted to keep it for another year, or train something different.
Duct tape 2.0 ... Have WD-40; will travel.
Cross Atu for CPM1
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Bethhy
Ancient Exiles. General Tso's Alliance
2020
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Posted - 2014.06.27 05:41:00 -
[10] - Quote
bogeyman m wrote:What if, more simply, SP investments only lasted 12 months (for example) before timing out and returning to your SP pool? You would effectively 'forget' a skill every 12 months, without loosing the SP credit, and would just retrain that skill, if you wanted to keep it for another year, or train something different.
Because this completely misses the entire point of having a persistent skill system with choices and consequences to unresearched skillpoint allocation. |
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
3833
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Posted - 2014.06.27 09:46:00 -
[11] - Quote
Bethhy wrote:bogeyman m wrote:What if, more simply, SP investments only lasted 12 months (for example) before timing out and returning to your SP pool? You would effectively 'forget' a skill every 12 months, without loosing the SP credit, and would just retrain that skill, if you wanted to keep it for another year, or train something different. Because this completely misses the entire point of having a persistent skill system with choices and consequences to unresearched skillpoint allocation. Not to mention the pain in the rump it would be for those of us who put actual thought and planning into our skill plans having to wast time and effort trying to rebuild our skill plan every 12 months when all our carful planning suddenly gets wiped!
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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DUST Fiend
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
14477
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Posted - 2014.06.27 12:35:00 -
[12] - Quote
Honestly, the anti respec mentality is poison, especially considering the state of the game.
CCP should be concerned about keeping the few players we have happy, not pandering to some outdated MMO mentality.
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bogeyman m
Minmatar Republic
284
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Posted - 2014.06.28 04:16:00 -
[13] - Quote
Fox Gaden wrote:Bethhy wrote:bogeyman m wrote:What if, more simply, SP investments only lasted 12 months (for example) before timing out and returning to your SP pool? You would effectively 'forget' a skill every 12 months, without loosing the SP credit, and would just retrain that skill, if you wanted to keep it for another year, or train something different. Because this completely misses the entire point of having a persistent skill system with choices and consequences to unresearched skillpoint allocation. Not to mention the pain in the rump it would be for those of us who put actual thought and planning into our skill plans having to wast time and effort trying to rebuild our skill plan every 12 months when all our carful planning suddenly gets wiped! Ya... I think you all missed what I was suggesting. I said SP investments might only last 12 months (for example) before timing out. Meaning that SPs invested this June would go back into the pool next June, SPs invested this July would revert next July, etc. There would be no sudden wipe, there would be no need for future respecs and there would still be a semi-persistence to skill set training in that each decision would last at least 12 months (for example).
Duct tape 2.0 ... Have WD-40; will travel.
Cross Atu for CPM1
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VikingKong iBUN
G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance
100
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Posted - 2014.06.28 04:22:00 -
[14] - Quote
Bethhy wrote:It seems "Re-spec's" will always be an issue of contention in a F2P game model. What if you could "Un-train" Skill points, bare with me. What if you could put on hold your passive skill point accumulation, to "Un-train" a skill at 5x the speed you would accumulate from your normal passive SP gain that adds to the total SP value of your character; thus recycling your SP instead of increasing the total value. And let's face it, forgetting something is at least 5x easier then learning it this will at least give all players a hard choice at the beginning and a clear consequence, and then conception of players choice around the allocation in a persistent free to play game model. Playing EVE online for over a decade now I get the idea of persistent locked in static skills, I still look back and remember the moment of getting certain skills, ships and achievements in EVE as connected parts of the experience and memory of that hobby. But with DUST's atmosphere and the nature of this issue never ever going away even in Legion, there has to be some dialogue started on how to give players an option to deal with an unwanted skill or even skills that have been obsoleted to the players intent by on going game development. +1
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
3843
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Posted - 2014.06.30 18:14:00 -
[15] - Quote
bogeyman m wrote:Fox Gaden wrote:Bethhy wrote:bogeyman m wrote:What if, more simply, SP investments only lasted 12 months (for example) before timing out and returning to your SP pool? You would effectively 'forget' a skill every 12 months, without loosing the SP credit, and would just retrain that skill, if you wanted to keep it for another year, or train something different. Because this completely misses the entire point of having a persistent skill system with choices and consequences to unresearched skillpoint allocation. Not to mention the pain in the rump it would be for those of us who put actual thought and planning into our skill plans having to wast time and effort trying to rebuild our skill plan every 12 months when all our carful planning suddenly gets wiped! Ya... I think you all missed what I was suggesting. I said SP investments might only last 12 months (for example) before timing out. Meaning that SPs invested this June would go back into the pool next June, SPs invested this July would revert next July, etc. There would be no sudden wipe, there would be no need for future respecs and there would still be a semi-persistence to skill set training in that each decision would last at least 12 months (for example). So instead of having to fix my suddenly wiped skill points once a year, you want to make relearning skills that suddenly disappear to be a constant chore every time I log in? That is even worse.
What makes you think that I wonGÇÖt still need the skill I train today 12 months from now?
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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bogeyman m
Minmatar Republic
292
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Posted - 2014.07.01 17:49:00 -
[16] - Quote
Fox Gaden wrote:bogeyman m wrote:Fox Gaden wrote:Bethhy wrote:bogeyman m wrote:What if, more simply, SP investments only lasted 12 months (for example) before timing out and returning to your SP pool? You would effectively 'forget' a skill every 12 months, without loosing the SP credit, and would just retrain that skill, if you wanted to keep it for another year, or train something different. Because this completely misses the entire point of having a persistent skill system with choices and consequences to unresearched skillpoint allocation. Not to mention the pain in the rump it would be for those of us who put actual thought and planning into our skill plans having to wast time and effort trying to rebuild our skill plan every 12 months when all our carful planning suddenly gets wiped! Ya... I think you all missed what I was suggesting. I said SP investments might only last 12 months (for example) before timing out. Meaning that SPs invested this June would go back into the pool next June, SPs invested this July would revert next July, etc. There would be no sudden wipe, there would be no need for future respecs and there would still be a semi-persistence to skill set training in that each decision would last at least 12 months (for example). So instead of having to fix my suddenly wiped skill points once a year, you want to make relearning skills that suddenly disappear to be a constant chore every time I log in? That is even worse. What makes you think that I wonGÇÖt still need the skill I train today 12 months from now? Not constantly. Once per month. And only on those skills that expired 12 months (or more) ago.
I expect that you would retrain most of your skills when they come up for renewal. But there may also be some that you want to repurpose. This process allows that without the need for a formal respect while also forcing (at least) 12 months of persistence on all training decisions.
Duct tape 2.0 ... Have WD-40; will travel.
Cross Atu for CPM1
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Seymour KrelbornX
Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire
256
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Posted - 2014.07.02 21:12:00 -
[17] - Quote
Fox Gaden wrote:bogeyman m wrote:Fox Gaden wrote:Bethhy wrote:bogeyman m wrote:What if, more simply, SP investments only lasted 12 months (for example) before timing out and returning to your SP pool? You would effectively 'forget' a skill every 12 months, without loosing the SP credit, and would just retrain that skill, if you wanted to keep it for another year, or train something different. Because this completely misses the entire point of having a persistent skill system with choices and consequences to unresearched skillpoint allocation. Not to mention the pain in the rump it would be for those of us who put actual thought and planning into our skill plans having to wast time and effort trying to rebuild our skill plan every 12 months when all our carful planning suddenly gets wiped! Ya... I think you all missed what I was suggesting. I said SP investments might only last 12 months (for example) before timing out. Meaning that SPs invested this June would go back into the pool next June, SPs invested this July would revert next July, etc. There would be no sudden wipe, there would be no need for future respecs and there would still be a semi-persistence to skill set training in that each decision would last at least 12 months (for example). So instead of having to fix my suddenly wiped skill points once a year, you want to make relearning skills that suddenly disappear to be a constant chore every time I log in? That is even worse. What makes you think that I wonGÇÖt still need the skill I train today 12 months from now? Not constantly. Once per month. And only on those skills that expired 12 months (or more) ago.
I expect that you would retrain most of your skills when they come up for renewal. But there may also be some that you want to repurpose. This process allows that without the need for a formal respect while also forcing (at least) 12 months of persistence on all training decisions.
[/quote]
dude you should work for CCP... your idea is about as convoluted and user unfriendly as most of their ideas....lol
this is a dead game, sp wont transfer to legion (if it eve gets green lit) I'll lick a cats @$$ if it does... and the only reason why there will be no respecs is so ccp can get you to chase that sp dragon as long as they can, and that's why they keep making your investment worthless, because we are all just the right amount of dumb to keep investing more time, and money on this stupid game....
I wont say for a moment I'm not having fun playing, I am....but it's all a big scam! |
Bethhy
Ancient Exiles. General Tso's Alliance
2213
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Posted - 2014.07.14 13:59:00 -
[18] - Quote
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Scar Scrilla
Escrow Removal and Acquisition Dark Taboo
280
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Posted - 2014.07.14 14:34:00 -
[19] - Quote
Or just simply raise the weekly SP cap. So easy.....
"Si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses"
"Go and hack the letter(s)" - UN1TE
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Bethhy
Ancient Exiles. General Tso's Alliance
2213
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Posted - 2014.07.14 16:01:00 -
[20] - Quote
Scar Scrilla wrote:Or just simply raise the weekly SP cap. So easy.....
That ruins the business model. We need there to be a cap and reason for boosters to be a central focus to purchases.
Where Boosters could even apply to "Un-training" speed if CCP so chose.
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