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Reactive Plates, making them worth fitting.

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Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 6130	Posted - 2014.06.22 03:45:00 - [31] - Quote What? That's not even my idea, that's what EVE is based on. Cody Sietz is the brains behind EVE. This Federation is now at war. We have no time for dissenters
Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 5385	Posted - 2014.06.22 04:12:00 - [32] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Sgt Kirk wrote: Seymour KrelbornX wrote: I think reactives are in a good place.... you get a slight decrease to movement with a small amount of rep and the trade is a bit of armor hp. stacking them gives you a decent buff to your armor while not diminishing your speed to badly and if your smart and use cover you can keep yourself near full health during a fire fight... i think those who benefit the most from them are medium suits and i think that's who they were meant for. they serve my minmitar proto logi pretty well. Please actually bother to read my post. As I said before, If you're going to stack reactives them you might as well use an armor repair with a ferroscale or basic plate and get much, much better results. Except that requires twice the sp investment and more module slots, so of course it should be better. It should, but not by the margin it is now. Reactives should give 1, 2, and 3 hp/s by level. Right now, you can equip an Enhanced Rep and Enhanced Ferro and get no movement penalty, 5x the regen, and more HP. As for SP investment? NEVER balance around SP. That does nothing but cater to the High SP players. I don't need any more advantages than I already have over the newbro's. Slots? Kinda the point. People with tons of lows don't need them, but those with not enough won't run them. Moving them to high slots isn't the solution. Buffing the Rep rate though, is a much better alternative. That Crazy Minmatar Fanatic Stabbing Heavies for the Republic since Uprising 1.1 PSN: EVL_Elgost105
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 6130	Posted - 2014.06.22 04:23:00 - [33] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: It should, but not by the margin it is now. Reactives should give 1, 2, and 3 hp/s by level. Right now, you can equip an Enhanced Rep and Enhanced Ferro and get no movement penalty, 5x the regen, and more HP. As for SP investment? NEVER balance around SP. That does nothing but cater to the High SP players. I don't need any more advantages than I already have over the newbro's. Slots? Kinda the point. People with tons of lows don't need them, but those with not enough won't run them. Moving them to high slots isn't the solution. Buffing the Rep rate though, is a much better alternative. Just give me something in the High Slots please sweet baby Cthulhu give me something. I'll trade you damage modifiers for reactives in highs. This Federation is now at war. We have no time for dissenters
Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 5385	Posted - 2014.06.22 04:26:00 - [34] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: Ghost Kaisar wrote: It should, but not by the margin it is now. Reactives should give 1, 2, and 3 hp/s by level. Right now, you can equip an Enhanced Rep and Enhanced Ferro and get no movement penalty, 5x the regen, and more HP. As for SP investment? NEVER balance around SP. That does nothing but cater to the High SP players. I don't need any more advantages than I already have over the newbro's. Slots? Kinda the point. People with tons of lows don't need them, but those with not enough won't run them. Moving them to high slots isn't the solution. Buffing the Rep rate though, is a much better alternative. Just give me something in the High Slots please sweet baby Cthulhu give me something. I'll trade you damage modifiers for reactives in highs. SOLD CHANGING PREVIOUS POSTS That Crazy Minmatar Fanatic Stabbing Heavies for the Republic since Uprising 1.1 PSN: EVL_Elgost105
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 885	Posted - 2014.06.22 05:32:00 - [35] - Quote Seymour KrelbornX wrote: I think reactives are in a good place.... you get a slight decrease to movement with a small amount of rep and the trade is a bit of armor hp. stacking them gives you a decent buff to your armor while not diminishing your speed to badly and if your smart and use cover you can keep yourself near full health during a fire fight... i think those who benefit the most from them are medium suits and i think that's who they were meant for. they serve my minmitar proto logi pretty well. You are better off fitting normal plates and a repair mod. I really wanted to like them but I don't use them often. On one suit with tight fitting they work , and on a scout I use one because I only had one low slot for armor and wanted some repping, but ferroscale gives you more armor with no speed penalty, reppers give you a lot more HP/s, and plates give you much more armor so instead of the best of each the liabilities of each are what come through. Because, that's why.
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 6131	Posted - 2014.06.22 05:39:00 - [36] - Quote Nothing Certain wrote: Seymour KrelbornX wrote: I think reactives are in a good place.... you get a slight decrease to movement with a small amount of rep and the trade is a bit of armor hp. stacking them gives you a decent buff to your armor while not diminishing your speed to badly and if your smart and use cover you can keep yourself near full health during a fire fight... i think those who benefit the most from them are medium suits and i think that's who they were meant for. they serve my minmitar proto logi pretty well. You are better off fitting normal plates and a repair mod. I really wanted to like them but I don't use them often. On one suit with tight fitting they work , and on a scout I use one because I only had one low slot for armor and wanted some repping, but ferroscale gives you more armor with no speed penalty, reppers give you a lot more HP/s, and plates give you much more armor so instead of the best of each the liabilities of each are what come through. And that's exactly why I said move them to High Slots. They are fine in most attributes. They just have no spot in being competitive against the other plates but they are still good. But like we've reached in the conclusion. Trade Damage mods for Reactives This Federation is now at war. We have no time for dissenters
Alabastor 'TheBlaster' Alcar Silver Bullet Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 688	Posted - 2014.06.22 18:19:00 - [37] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: Alright everybody, made a major mistake. I meant to say move Reactives to High slots. i dont like this
Seymour KrelbornX Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 156	Posted - 2014.06.22 21:35:00 - [38] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: Alright everybody, made a major mistake. I meant to say move Reactives to High slots. so you make a mistake... but I'm stupid.... I cant take you seriously....
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 6138	Posted - 2014.06.22 23:30:00 - [39] - Quote Seymour KrelbornX wrote: Sgt Kirk wrote: Alright everybody, made a major mistake. I meant to say move Reactives to High slots. so you make a mistake... but I'm stupid.... I cant take you seriously.... Me neither, HTFU. This Federation is now at war. We have no time for dissenters
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 6138	Posted - 2014.06.22 23:31:00 - [40] - Quote Alabastor 'TheBlaster' Alcar wrote: Sgt Kirk wrote: Alright everybody, made a major mistake. I meant to say move Reactives to High slots. i dont like this Any reasons why? This Federation is now at war. We have no time for dissenters

Alabastor 'TheBlaster' Alcar Silver Bullet Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 691	Posted - 2014.06.23 01:39:00 - [41] - Quote i dont like the idea of armor modules in the high slots, because it changes the way u could stack armor on suits and if reactive plates had a incremental increase in the repair rate aswel as changed to fit in high slots it wkuld lead to suprrepping suits stacking enhanced reactive plates in their highs and maby 2 reps with a complex plate, now i liked the idea before you said u left out moving them to high slots but i think that little change would ruin an otherwise great idea. moving them to high slots would quickly be deemed op i can almost bet isk on it.
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 6147	Posted - 2014.06.23 02:32:00 - [42] - Quote Alabastor 'TheBlaster' Alcar wrote: i dont like the idea of armor modules in the high slots, because it changes the way u could stack armor on suits and if reactive plates had a incremental increase in the repair rate aswel as changed to fit in high slots it wkuld lead to suprrepping suits stacking enhanced reactive plates in their highs and maby 2 reps with a complex plate, now i liked the idea before you said u left out moving them to high slots but i think that little change would ruin an otherwise great idea. moving them to high slots would quickly be deemed op i can almost bet isk on it. Ahhh. Well then if this was to go about we could see if the changes affected them enough to be worthy in the lows and then move them to highs if they seem to not work out well but honestly the greater problem of all of this is that the suits stats and modules in this game are not balanced around suits having their unique identities. This Federation is now at war. We have no time for dissenters
Texs Red DUST University Ivy League 335	Posted - 2014.06.23 12:39:00 - [43] - Quote To put math to the assertion of Ferroscale > Reactive plates x5 Complex Reactive Plates: +330 armor, +10 HP/s, -5% speed penalty (Or +15 HP/s with 1/2/3 plate rep progression) x4 Ferroscale, x1 Repper: +330 armor, +9.37 HP/s, 0% speed penalty Reactives come out slightly better in HP/s but with a 5% speed penalty, so they aren't as terrible an option as you guys say. I think giving them 1/2/3 for reps would make them a excellent option and we can forget this idea of moving them to high slots, which I think will cause more problems than it would fix. I also think, while not exactly, that comparing reactive/ferroscale plates to regular ones is a bit like apples to oranges. If you are using reactive/farroscale plates you want the speed that regular plates take away. x4 Complex plates, x1 Repper: +594 armor, +9.37 HP/s, 19% speed penalty. So is +5.63 HP/s and being 14% faster worth the loss of 234 armor? Or is being 19% faster worth the loss of of 234 armor? Apples to oranges my friends, apples to oranges (it's all personal opinion).
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 495	Posted - 2014.06.23 14:32:00 - [44] - Quote Hmm, I'm coming around to simply adjusting the amount/second. Personally, 2/3/4 sounds better, because its still less effective than the relevant level of Repairer, but much more significant than before. Even with 5 Complex (20 HP/s; 300 armour), you're looking at only slightly more than 2 Complex Reps, which would allow you to get 445.5 armour/18.75 HP/s. +1 Texs Red. Though I do feel the 2/3/4 is better
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 6150	Posted - 2014.06.23 16:13:00 - [45] - Quote I agree I'm coming around to the idea of having 2/3/4 myself. This Federation is now at war. We have no time for dissenters
Texs Red DUST University Ivy League 336	Posted - 2014.06.23 16:32:00 - [46] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: I agree I'm coming around to the idea of having 2/3/4 myself. I disagree, if it become 2/3/4 it feel it might start to edge out Ferroscale plates. x5 Complex Reactive (with 2/3/4 progression): +330 armor, +20 HP/s, -5% speed penalty x4 Ferroscale, x1 Repper: +330 armor, +9.37 HP/s, 0% speed penalty With the 2/3/4 progression Reactive plates could have over twice the repair amount for only a -5% speed penalty, so it would become the obvious choice for all except the most diehard speedsters. With 1/2/3 progression I think it would make both styles good options with advantages and disadvantages. Also it might make plates too undesirable: x3 Complex Plates, x2 Repper: +445.5 armor, +18.75 armor, -15% speed penalty. Compared to 2/3/4 reactive plates you get +115 armor, -10% more speed penalty, and -1.25 HP/s. It would be slower, with less rep power, and only about 100 more HP.
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 495	Posted - 2014.06.23 16:51:00 - [47] - Quote Perhaps a small drop in Reactive HP buffer? Maybe down to something like 20/35/50? Edit: my reasoning is that without a reasonable HP/s, Reactive plates aren't anything to write home about. Their repping ability needs to be significant, but less than a repper. So their armour should be less than a Ferroscale, but essentially be a hybrid of Ferroscale/Repper.
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 6151	Posted - 2014.06.23 17:04:00 - [48] - Quote I was under the assumption that reduced HP for more hp/s was already agreed. This Federation is now at war. We have no time for dissenters
Texs Red DUST University Ivy League 338	Posted - 2014.06.23 17:52:00 - [49] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: I was under the assumption that reduced HP for more hp/s was already agreed. Why though, it needs a buff not lateral movement. You are trying to change the purpose of the module, from a plate with a bit of reps to a rep module with a bit of armor. It just needs a slight buff to make it numerically competitive with ferroscale plates and I think a 1/2/3 rep progression would meet that end cleaner than altering the armor/reps balance of the module.
Viktor Hadah Jr Negative-Impact The East India Co. 4346	Posted - 2014.06.23 17:53:00 - [50] - Quote i'd the armor plate and armor rep bonus to apply to them that would be nice Viktor for CPM I'll ring for free(Multiple roles, 51Mil SP) Chat Channel: Vik PC

Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 497	Posted - 2014.06.23 18:00:00 - [51] - Quote I think you're probably right Texs, also baby steps are better than bigger changes So 1/2/3 and keep their current armour seems pretty good anyway.
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 6152	Posted - 2014.06.23 18:14:00 - [52] - Quote Viktor Hadah Jr wrote: i'd the armor plate and armor rep bonus to apply to them that would be nice It applies to the armor plate skill but not the armor repair. But to Texas, The Reactive plate I'd wish it to be more repair focused but maybe that's a different module entirely matching more with my Gallente Playstyle. The Reactive is more Minmatar geared isn't it? Pretty sure it's found in the Minmatar LP store and if that's the case then a armor over reps would be the case. Either way, I'd be happy with a module that was: A: 2/3/4 with 21/32/43 B: 1/2/3 with current armor amount. Although, I think an easy compromise would be that the Reactive plates get a bonus from the repair skill as well, as small as it would be, it would still be something. This Federation is now at war. We have no time for dissenters
Alabastor 'TheBlaster' Alcar Silver Bullet Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 693	Posted - 2014.06.23 18:59:00 - [53] - Quote yeah we should only change one thing at a time u know how ccp fuks evrything up when multiple suggestions are out there, just look at the railguns they ate completely broken because they changed 3 things instead of just one. there wasnt anything wrong with them that warrented chang either just some qq. however i think if changes were to be made to reactive plates it should be just the repair rate.
Texs Red DUST University Ivy League 340	Posted - 2014.06.23 21:59:00 - [54] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: But to Texas, The Reactive plate I'd wish it to be more repair focused but maybe that's a different module entirely matching more with my Gallente Playstyle. The Reactive is more Minmatar geared isn't it? Pretty sure it's found in the Minmatar LP store and if that's the case then a armor over reps would be the case. Either way, I'd be happy with a module that was: A: 2/3/4 with 21/32/43 B: 1/2/3 with current armor amount. Although, I think an easy compromise would be that the Reactive plates get a bonus from the repair skill as well, as small as it would be, it would still be something. Actually no LP store offers reactive or ferroscale plates. While EVE has many aspects to it when it comes to tanking (Armor tanked Caldari ships and Shield tanked Gallente ships) I think each of the races ultimately water down to: Caldari have lots of shields (EVE side several of their shield ships gain resist bonuses to shields) Amarr have lots of armor (Again EVE side their ships have resist bonuses but to armor instead of shields) Minmatar are shield regeneration (Yes, in EVE they do both shields and armor. However many of their ships give bonuses for shield boosting and not armor repair. Also their logi cruiser repairs shields, not armor. Remember, Dust is watered down). To further support this their LP store offers no armor modules despite their even slot layout which suggests dual tanking. Gallente are armor regeneration. In EVE a fair number of their ships have bonuses for self armor repair and their logi cruiser is meant to be self sustaining while giving out reps. I say this to dispel the idea that Minmatar are omni-regen tankers and so all things regen should fall under their purview, I also do not see them as being all about speed tanking either. Technically modules that increase speed are Gallente (supported by the fact that KinCats are in Gallente LP store) due to the fact that they have the shortest range weapons. The highest base speed should be Minmatar as should the highest base shield regeneration rates/delays.
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 6154	Posted - 2014.06.24 00:26:00 - [55] - Quote The Faction Packs do. The Gallente come with one of the plates while the minmatar come with another. I'm not at home to check This Federation is now at war. We have no time for dissenters
Thang Bausch Pierrot Le Fou Industries 170	Posted - 2014.06.24 03:44:00 - [56] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: Alright everybody, made a major mistake. I meant to say move Reactives to High slots. In general, there needs to be more modules for high slots. not sure reactives are the things, but something more than what is available now.
Thang Bausch Pierrot Le Fou Industries 170	Posted - 2014.06.24 03:47:00 - [57] - Quote I totally agree that reactives need more hp repair at advanced/proto levels. I was trying to build a suit with them and it just didn't make sense. ferroscale, on the other hand, are now in a very nice place. I don't use them exclusively, but i do use them a lot.
JP Acuna Pendejitos Zero-Day 201	Posted - 2014.06.24 04:40:00 - [58] - Quote As you guessed, they seem to be for shield or "dual" tankers. armor tankers can fit reppers and plates separately without sacrificing significant hp, cause they have the slots for that. We always have to choose between better regen or better tank. As a dual module, reactive plates are ok just giving you a little bit of reps and hp in one single slot.
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 6157	Posted - 2014.06.24 04:50:00 - [59] - Quote JP Acuna wrote: As you guessed, they seem to be for shield or "dual" tankers. armor tankers can fit reppers and plates separately without sacrificing significant hp, cause they have the slots for that. We always have to choose between better regen or better tank. As a dual module, reactive plates are ok just giving you a little bit of reps and hp in one single slot. That's the problem. I want this game to be as far away from dual tanking as possible. The only ones I'd be okay with in this game having primary dual tank is Minmatar. This Federation is now at war. We have no time for dissenters
Bojo The Mighty Spaceman Drug Cartel-Uno 3888	Posted - 2014.06.24 04:57:00 - [60] - Quote I like the idea and I do use it on a few fittings so here's my general idea -No movement penalty at all I don't see how an Armor plate starts out with no penalty at all (not even some tiny percent) and less HP than a Ferro and progresses to add less health and a speed penalty over the progression of a Ferro. I think that Reactives were designed with Gallente in mind and Ferros should've been the Amarr ticket to the scout. But with reactives as so I believe Gallente would need a miniscule speed buff to make them worth the weight right now (so negate movement penalty in one way or another). But that only applies if you try and use the racial ideals behind your suit and not just try to straight tank it. I'm not resting in peace but rather wandering as a zombie in vengeance of no good reason



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