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Sgt Kirk
Fatal Absolution
6117
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Posted - 2014.06.21 17:55:00 -
[1] - Quote
With the increase of armor repair modules I find it hard to justify the use of an Reactive Plate. For much, much better results you usually pair it with a Ferroscale of same, or even lower, tier along with an Armor repair module.
The only time I see the Reactive plates working out is when you play as a Minmatar, or another low Low Slot based suit and want a sliver of armor and at least a 1 hp/s of armor.
I would be fine with this if the use of Reactive Plates was primarily for non armor tanked suits with low slots but I find that hard to believe.
The weird thing is that the only improvement I would see to the Reactive plates would be to increase the armor repair rate to 1/2/3 (or even 2/3/4 if that's not enough) progressing through the lowest and highest tier instead of the 1/1/2 hp/s featured now.
- The Reactive modules are in a great spot and only the repair rate should be changed but still they are overshadowed by the other alternative modules. So, how would we solve this?
+ Move Reactive plates to low slots
Additional Clause: Give Minmatar suits a universal 1 hp/s
P.S. Before anybody starts screaming about "no more Speed racer brinked tanked scouts", I fully Agree but that's a different matter entirely.
This Federation is now at war. We have no time for dissenters
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Sgt Kirk
Fatal Absolution
6117
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Posted - 2014.06.21 18:08:00 -
[2] - Quote
Seymour KrelbornX wrote:I think reactives are in a good place....
you get a slight decrease to movement with a small amount of rep and the trade is a bit of armor hp. stacking them gives you a decent buff to your armor while not diminishing your speed to badly and if your smart and use cover you can keep yourself near full health during a fire fight...
i think those who benefit the most from them are medium suits and i think that's who they were meant for. they serve my minmitar proto logi pretty well.
Please actually bother to read my post. As I said before, If you're going to stack reactives them you might as well use an armor repair with a ferroscale or basic plate and get much, much better results.
This Federation is now at war. We have no time for dissenters
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Sgt Kirk
Fatal Absolution
6119
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Posted - 2014.06.21 18:23:00 -
[3] - Quote
MINA Longstrike wrote:Sgt Kirk wrote:Seymour KrelbornX wrote:I think reactives are in a good place....
you get a slight decrease to movement with a small amount of rep and the trade is a bit of armor hp. stacking them gives you a decent buff to your armor while not diminishing your speed to badly and if your smart and use cover you can keep yourself near full health during a fire fight...
i think those who benefit the most from them are medium suits and i think that's who they were meant for. they serve my minmitar proto logi pretty well.
Please actually bother to read my post. As I said before, If you're going to stack reactives them you might as well use an armor repair with a ferroscale or basic plate and get much, much better results. Except that requires twice the sp investment and more module slots, so of course it should be better.
alright, for low sp guys use a militia repair tool then and just work on armor. It still gives you better results unless youre using two prototype plates even vice versa works.
This Federation is now at war. We have no time for dissenters
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Sgt Kirk
Fatal Absolution
6119
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Posted - 2014.06.21 18:28:00 -
[4] - Quote
RedPencil wrote:General12912 wrote:100% agreed. along with one additional tweak: take the movement penalty away too. reactives should be for shield/high hp recovery tankers. both them depend on movement speed to compensate for their low/weak hp.
and again, yes, the Minmatar suits do need their 1hp/s armor regen back. they are supposed to be fast and highly recoverable in trade-off for their HP being the lowest of all races in-game. You can't take away the movement penalty because it will give too much benefit and make Ferroscale Plates lost their strong point.
agreed. Movement penalty is not an issue at all. It's not even that crippling.
This Federation is now at war. We have no time for dissenters
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Sgt Kirk
Fatal Absolution
6119
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Posted - 2014.06.21 18:37:00 -
[5] - Quote
Seymour KrelbornX wrote:whats with you morons thinking people don't read your posts because people disagree with you?
Because it's pretty stupid to stack reactive platess, that's pretty moronic in and itself.
I disagreed with the guy with the movement penalty but I didn't say anything bad against him.
You could have disagreed to any other points and had any other examples but that one was incredibly stupid.
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Sgt Kirk
Fatal Absolution
6125
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Posted - 2014.06.21 19:39:00 -
[6] - Quote
Alright everybody, made a major mistake.
I meant to say move Reactives to High slots.
This Federation is now at war. We have no time for dissenters
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Sgt Kirk
Fatal Absolution
6129
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Posted - 2014.06.22 00:29:00 -
[7] - Quote
Kallas Hallytyr wrote:If Reactives were to move to high slots, a readjustment of all plate HP would be required to balance the sudden presence of even more armour. I agree that it would definitely help the Reactive plate but they'd need to be dropped to something like:
Basic: 1 HP/s; 10 HP; 1% penalty
Advanced: 2 HP/s; 15-20 HP; 2% penalty
Complex: 3 HP/s; 20-25 HP; 3% penalty
And I think we'd want to reduce the HP granted by regular plates down to something like 75/100/120 to prevent Armour becoming supremely dominant again.
I agree with the first part but was thinking to make it more like
Basic: 1hp/s; 21 HP; 1% penalty
Advanced: 2 hp/s; 32 HP; 2% penalty
Complex: 3 hp/s; 43 HP; 3% penalty.
This Federation is now at war. We have no time for dissenters
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Sgt Kirk
Fatal Absolution
6130
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Posted - 2014.06.22 00:42:00 -
[8] - Quote
Kallas Hallytyr wrote:I can agree to that Kirk, but the end result needs to be similar amounts of armour to what we can achieve now, whichnwoulkd require either a large reduction to the HP granted by the reactives and a small reduction to the regular plates, or a medium one to both.
I think the large/small would be more reasonable, since this would affect Amarr less (ie, they can brick tank as effectively) while Gallente would still get the benefit of fitting additional Reactive buffer and getting more room to put regenerative modules in.
What would you say if Caldari had a nice shield buff making them the Shield tanker they are supposed to be( not generative Caldari are the Amarr of shields to an extent ) and Minmatar get a nice depletion and recharge buff.
Would two Grand buffs to the shield races allow for the previous point?
This Federation is now at war. We have no time for dissenters
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Sgt Kirk
Fatal Absolution
6130
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Posted - 2014.06.22 00:47:00 -
[9] - Quote
Baal Omniscient wrote:I already use complex reactive plates (and ferroscale plates) on my Winmatar assault. The reactive gives me a little HP with a very minimum speed penalty (very important for my suit) plus compensates for my lost passive reps from last build. I'll leave the regulator discussion for another thread, but until regulators are better than 65 extra HP and 2 passive reps, my complex reactive is staying where it is. However, I do wish they scaled better. Maybe not 1/2/3, but at the very least 1/1.5/2. That enhanced plate is the odd man out. Either needs a .5 tacked on or complex and enhanced both need +1 reps/sec. I'm all for having 3 passive reps instead of 2, just to be clear. 
And I agree with that. That's why I said give minmitar a native 1hp/s bonus for all minmitar suits.
But in my last post I do think that shield support modules and some overall suit stat changes will be needed during or before reactives are moved to high slots.
This Federation is now at war. We have no time for dissenters
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Sgt Kirk
Fatal Absolution
6130
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Posted - 2014.06.22 02:52:00 -
[10] - Quote
Kallas Hallytyr wrote:Sgt Kirk wrote:What would you say if Caldari had a nice shield buff making them the Shield tanker they are supposed to be( not generative Caldari are the Amarr of shields to an extent ) and Minmatar get a nice depletion and recharge buff.
Would two Grand buffs to the shield races allow for the previous point? I think it would, although I think you're getting away from your original intent: making Reactive Plates an effective choice by moving them to high slots. The simple solution would be a rejiggering of plate HP across the spectrum to account for the new availability of high plates. I would love to dive in on a grand rejiggering of the suits and some modules, but I think that would be a whole Hotfix in and of itself, and would require some hefty number crunching! If you want to try it, I'm game :D
I'd be most down with that.
I would honestly love an overhaul of base stats for the suits.
The Amarr would be a true slow, behemot brick tanker instead of this hybrid nonsense.
The Caldari would be the second slowest but with more shields than you can shake a stick at.
The Gallente would the second fastest, Best active armor suit (armor repair) in the game.
The Minmatar would be the hit-and-run warrior. He hits hard and fast and you should never let up because their regeneration is so high.
That's my ideal world.
This Federation is now at war. We have no time for dissenters
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Sgt Kirk
Fatal Absolution
6130
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Posted - 2014.06.22 03:45:00 -
[11] - Quote
What? That's not even my idea, that's what EVE is based on.
Cody Sietz is the brains behind EVE.
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Sgt Kirk
Fatal Absolution
6130
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Posted - 2014.06.22 04:23:00 -
[12] - Quote
Ghost Kaisar wrote:
It should, but not by the margin it is now.
Reactives should give 1, 2, and 3 hp/s by level.
Right now, you can equip an Enhanced Rep and Enhanced Ferro and get no movement penalty, 5x the regen, and more HP.
As for SP investment? NEVER balance around SP. That does nothing but cater to the High SP players. I don't need any more advantages than I already have over the newbro's.
Slots? Kinda the point. People with tons of lows don't need them, but those with not enough won't run them. Moving them to high slots isn't the solution. Buffing the Rep rate though, is a much better alternative.
Just give me something in the High Slots please sweet baby Cthulhu give me something.
I'll trade you damage modifiers for reactives in highs.
This Federation is now at war. We have no time for dissenters
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Sgt Kirk
Fatal Absolution
6131
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Posted - 2014.06.22 05:39:00 -
[13] - Quote
Nothing Certain wrote:Seymour KrelbornX wrote:I think reactives are in a good place....
you get a slight decrease to movement with a small amount of rep and the trade is a bit of armor hp. stacking them gives you a decent buff to your armor while not diminishing your speed to badly and if your smart and use cover you can keep yourself near full health during a fire fight...
i think those who benefit the most from them are medium suits and i think that's who they were meant for. they serve my minmitar proto logi pretty well.
You are better off fitting normal plates and a repair mod. I really wanted to like them but I don't use them often. On one suit with tight fitting they work , and on a scout I use one because I only had one low slot for armor and wanted some repping, but ferroscale gives you more armor with no speed penalty, reppers give you a lot more HP/s, and plates give you much more armor so instead of the best of each the liabilities of each are what come through.
And that's exactly why I said move them to High Slots.
They are fine in most attributes. They just have no spot in being competitive against the other plates but they are still good.
But like we've reached in the conclusion. Trade Damage mods for Reactives
This Federation is now at war. We have no time for dissenters
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Sgt Kirk
Fatal Absolution
6138
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Posted - 2014.06.22 23:30:00 -
[14] - Quote
Seymour KrelbornX wrote:Sgt Kirk wrote:Alright everybody, made a major mistake.
I meant to say move Reactives to High slots. so you make a mistake... but I'm stupid.... I cant take you seriously....
Me neither, HTFU.
This Federation is now at war. We have no time for dissenters
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Sgt Kirk
Fatal Absolution
6138
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Posted - 2014.06.22 23:31:00 -
[15] - Quote
Alabastor 'TheBlaster' Alcar wrote:Sgt Kirk wrote:Alright everybody, made a major mistake.
I meant to say move Reactives to High slots. i dont like this
Any reasons why?
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Sgt Kirk
Fatal Absolution
6147
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Posted - 2014.06.23 02:32:00 -
[16] - Quote
Alabastor 'TheBlaster' Alcar wrote:i dont like the idea of armor modules in the high slots, because it changes the way u could stack armor on suits and if reactive plates had a incremental increase in the repair rate aswel as changed to fit in high slots it wkuld lead to suprrepping suits stacking enhanced reactive plates in their highs and maby 2 reps with a complex plate, now i liked the idea before you said u left out moving them to high slots but i think that little change would ruin an otherwise great idea. moving them to high slots would quickly be deemed op i can almost bet isk on it.
Ahhh.
Well then if this was to go about we could see if the changes affected them enough to be worthy in the lows and then move them to highs if they seem to not work out well but honestly the greater problem of all of this is that the suits stats and modules in this game are not balanced around suits having their unique identities.
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Sgt Kirk
Fatal Absolution
6150
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Posted - 2014.06.23 16:13:00 -
[17] - Quote
I agree I'm coming around to the idea of having 2/3/4 myself.
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Sgt Kirk
Fatal Absolution
6151
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Posted - 2014.06.23 17:04:00 -
[18] - Quote
I was under the assumption that reduced HP for more hp/s was already agreed.
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Sgt Kirk
Fatal Absolution
6152
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Posted - 2014.06.23 18:14:00 -
[19] - Quote
Viktor Hadah Jr wrote:i'd the armor plate and armor rep bonus to apply to them that would be nice
It applies to the armor plate skill but not the armor repair.
But to Texas, The Reactive plate I'd wish it to be more repair focused but maybe that's a different module entirely matching more with my Gallente Playstyle. The Reactive is more Minmatar geared isn't it? Pretty sure it's found in the Minmatar LP store and if that's the case then a armor over reps would be the case.
Either way, I'd be happy with a module that was:
A: 2/3/4 with 21/32/43
B: 1/2/3 with current armor amount.
Although, I think an easy compromise would be that the Reactive plates get a bonus from the repair skill as well, as small as it would be, it would still be something.
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Sgt Kirk
Fatal Absolution
6154
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Posted - 2014.06.24 00:26:00 -
[20] - Quote
The Faction Packs do.
The Gallente come with one of the plates
while the minmatar come with another.
I'm not at home to check
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Sgt Kirk
Fatal Absolution
6157
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Posted - 2014.06.24 04:50:00 -
[21] - Quote
JP Acuna wrote:As you guessed, they seem to be for shield or "dual" tankers. armor tankers can fit reppers and plates separately without sacrificing significant hp, cause they have the slots for that. We always have to choose between better regen or better tank. As a dual module, reactive plates are ok just giving you a little bit of reps and hp in one single slot.
That's the problem. I want this game to be as far away from dual tanking as possible. The only ones I'd be okay with in this game having primary dual tank is Minmatar.
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