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Hotfix Charlie Sidearms (spreadsheet inside)

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BL4CKST4R Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 2833	Posted - 2014.06.20 00:31:00 - [1] - Quote https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XLKQOSker6X38Flzxd8EzLcNIPKdi9E2xOO0xO8DM2c/edit?usp=sharing Sidearms are a pretty unbalanced aspect in Dust 514. Some sidearms are or were so powerful that they took the place of Light weapons, while others are so useless that you are better off running without a sidearm. Another imbalanced aspect of sidearms is pistols versus submachine guns. In my opinion a pistol should have a higher DPS than a submachine gun but be more specific in usage, while a submachine gun should be a bit more of a generalist weapon. Also range v DPS should also apply to side arms, meaning that the DPS scale should go Gallente (at highest) - Minmatar - Amarr - Caldari (at lowest) while the range scale would be the inverse. Spreadsheet v.1 suggested changes: >Equalized the range of the Bolt Pistol (45), Magsec SMG (40), and the Ion Pistol (24) >Bolt pistol received a 5% Damage increase >Magsec SMG received a 5% Damage reduction (recoil should be slightly decreased to compensate) >Ion Pistol received a 25% Damage increase >Ion Pistol received a +3 clip increase >Ion Pistol should overheat at around 80% or enough so 3-4 shots will overheat it after the charged shot. >Submachine gun received a 5% Damage increase (no changes to variants yet) >Equalized the blast radius of the flaylock pistol tiers to 1.50 meters Items required for spreadsheet v.2 are: feedback on v.1, optimal ranges for the Scrambler pistol and its variants, optimal ranges for the Submachine gun and its variants, and any ideas you have (that can be done server side) to help fix sidearms. supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 10868	Posted - 2014.06.20 00:36:00 - [2] - Quote NICE! " Those men died loving duty more than they feared death..... they died well." -Templar Ouryon after Iesa III
deezy dabest Sacred Initiative of Combat Killers 640	Posted - 2014.06.20 00:50:00 - [3] - Quote The basic scrambler pistol should go to 60 damage and 375 rounds per minute. That keeps the DPS very close to current, makes it more comfortable to fire, and nerfs the insane headshot bonus. The assault and burst variants can be scaled accordingly. Even after spending plenty of time with it after the nerf I feel useless with it against these strafers. Laser focused in a room full of mirrors. Everything you ever wanted coming SoonGäó just keep buying boosters.
BL4CKST4R Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 2833	Posted - 2014.06.20 00:56:00 - [4] - Quote deezy dabest wrote: The basic scrambler pistol should go to 60 damage and 375 rounds per minute. That keeps the DPS very close to current, makes it more comfortable to fire, and nerfs the insane headshot bonus. The assault and burst variants can be scaled accordingly. Even after spending plenty of time with it after the nerf I feel useless with it against these strafers. That also makes it more like my suggested Ion pistol and it nerfs scrambler DPS a little bit. Although this is a good idea for the Assault Scrambler pistol. I do think strafing should be fixed though, so refer to this post https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=165655&find=unread supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 5361	Posted - 2014.06.20 02:58:00 - [5] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XLKQOSker6X38Flzxd8EzLcNIPKdi9E2xOO0xO8DM2c/edit?usp=sharing Sidearms are a pretty unbalanced aspect in Dust 514. Some sidearms are or were so powerful that they took the place of Light weapons, while others are so useless that you are better off running without a sidearm. Another imbalanced aspect of sidearms is pistols versus submachine guns. In my opinion a pistol should have a higher DPS than a submachine gun but be more specific in usage, while a submachine gun should be a bit more of a generalist weapon. Also range v DPS should also apply to side arms, meaning that the DPS scale should go Gallente (at highest) - Minmatar - Amarr - Caldari (at lowest) while the range scale would be the inverse. Spreadsheet v.1 suggested changes: >Equalized the range of the Bolt Pistol (45), Magsec SMG (40), and the Ion Pistol (24) >Bolt pistol received a 5% Damage increase >Magsec SMG received a 5% Damage reduction (recoil should be slightly decreased to compensate) >Ion Pistol received a 25% Damage increase >Ion Pistol received a +3 clip increase >Ion Pistol should overheat at around 80% or enough so 3-4 shots will overheat it after the charged shot. >Submachine gun received a 5% Damage increase (no changes to variants yet) >Equalized the blast radius of the flaylock pistol tiers to 1.50 meters Items required for spreadsheet v.2 are: feedback on v.1, optimal ranges for the Scrambler pistol and its variants, optimal ranges for the Submachine gun and its variants, and any ideas you have (that can be done server side) to help fix sidearms. Flaylock needs a lot more than just blast radius increase. Problems: Damage. With a 3 round clip, you look at a damage of 462 per clip with splash (544 with direct) Also: Remember that every suit has shields. At least 150 in most cases. Sometimes more. You require 1 shot to get rid of shields (Direct). Heavies also have splash resistance, so splash damage doesn't work well against them. Solution: Increase direct damage. Direct damage needs to hit HARD. Make it 200, 250, 300 for the tiers. With direct shots to armor, you could take down a heavy if you had good aim. Leave splash damage where it's at. Splash is for finishing off targets quickly. Direct is for surprise take downs or for heavily tanked targets that move slow. Problems: Splash application. Flaylock is useless at Basic. Barely Useable at ADV and Decent at PRO. Splash is the reason. Make 1.5m splash universal (Which you already did) Max Skills buff it out to ~1.9m splash. Very good. The splash damage is low, so this should balance itself out a bit. You now have a powerful anti-armor sidearm, and a decent finisher. Direct Damage is necessary to get full effect out of the gun, and shield suits will still be a problem. NEVER TOUCH THE ROF. NEVER AGAIN. That is all. EDIT: Problem with the Ion Pistol. You can technically fire it indefinitely without charge. You only overheat if you hold down the trigger too long while firing (And the gun attempts to part charge each individual shot) If you make charge shots only heat up to 80%, you could fire the shot, and then empty the clip without problems. A less elegant solution would be to make the gun consume 8 shots to fire a charge, and then to remove overheat. That Crazy Minmatar Scout PSN: EVL_Elgost105 RIP Dust514 05/02/14 GG CCP
Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p 535	Posted - 2014.06.20 03:04:00 - [6] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: >Equalized the blast radius of the flaylock pistol tiers to 1.50 meters please tell me that thats a joke. The flay lock is the only sidearm that is worse than the ion pistol the blast radius should be like 3m for all tiers, not 1.5. Also, the ion pistol doesn't need a 25% damage increase if you reduce heat buildup, as it will do > damage than a shotgun before overheating. Other than that, I do like the changes, as they seem semi balanced (other than OP ion pistol) What all Minjas are thinking as they play... Yellow Heavy, Red Heavy...
BL4CKST4R Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 2834	Posted - 2014.06.20 03:14:00 - [7] - Quote Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p wrote: BL4CKST4R wrote: >Equalized the blast radius of the flaylock pistol tiers to 1.50 meters please tell me that thats a joke. The flay lock is the only sidearm that is worse than the ion pistol the blast radius should be like 3m for all tiers, not 1.5. Also, the ion pistol doesn't need a 25% damage increase if you reduce heat buildup, as it will do > damage than a shotgun before overheating. Other than that, I do like the changes, as they seem semi balanced (other than OP ion pistol) Ion pistol has 24M range and the DPS is just a tad bit higher than a scrambler pistol... as for the heat build up the problem with that is that the DPS of the ion pistol is actually lower if you use the charge function rather than the single shot function. Thus using the gun as is, even if it didn't overheat itself to death would lead to lower DPS values. So the gun requires its DPS increased. As for the flaylock pistol 1.5 splash radius is just a start would love some feedback on how to fix it but I faintly remember the flaylock when it was godly and its blast radius was just shy of 1.8 for the core and that was pretty OP. EDIT: Damage of the flaylock was increased... starting at 297.61 on basic. supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
BL4CKST4R Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 2834	Posted - 2014.06.20 03:21:00 - [8] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: BL4CKST4R wrote: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XLKQOSker6X38Flzxd8EzLcNIPKdi9E2xOO0xO8DM2c/edit?usp=sharing Sidearms are a pretty unbalanced aspect in Dust 514. Some sidearms are or were so powerful that they took the place of Light weapons, while others are so useless that you are better off running without a sidearm. Another imbalanced aspect of sidearms is pistols versus submachine guns. In my opinion a pistol should have a higher DPS than a submachine gun but be more specific in usage, while a submachine gun should be a bit more of a generalist weapon. Also range v DPS should also apply to side arms, meaning that the DPS scale should go Gallente (at highest) - Minmatar - Amarr - Caldari (at lowest) while the range scale would be the inverse. Spreadsheet v.1 suggested changes: >Equalized the range of the Bolt Pistol (45), Magsec SMG (40), and the Ion Pistol (24) >Bolt pistol received a 5% Damage increase >Magsec SMG received a 5% Damage reduction (recoil should be slightly decreased to compensate) >Ion Pistol received a 25% Damage increase >Ion Pistol received a +3 clip increase >Ion Pistol should overheat at around 80% or enough so 3-4 shots will overheat it after the charged shot. >Submachine gun received a 5% Damage increase (no changes to variants yet) >Equalized the blast radius of the flaylock pistol tiers to 1.50 meters Items required for spreadsheet v.2 are: feedback on v.1, optimal ranges for the Scrambler pistol and its variants, optimal ranges for the Submachine gun and its variants, and any ideas you have (that can be done server side) to help fix sidearms. Flaylock needs a lot more than just blast radius increase. Problems: Damage. With a 3 round clip, you look at a damage of 462 per clip with splash (544 with direct) Also: Remember that every suit has shields. At least 150 in most cases. Sometimes more. You require 1 shot to get rid of shields (Direct). Heavies also have splash resistance, so splash damage doesn't work well against them. Solution: Increase direct damage. Direct damage needs to hit HARD. Make it 200, 250, 300 for the tiers. With direct shots to armor, you could take down a heavy if you had good aim. Leave splash damage where it's at. Splash is for finishing off targets quickly. Direct is for surprise take downs or for heavily tanked targets that move slow. Problems: Splash application. Flaylock is useless at Basic. Barely Useable at ADV and Decent at PRO. Splash is the reason. Make 1.5m splash universal (Which you already did) Max Skills buff it out to ~1.9m splash. Very good. The splash damage is low, so this should balance itself out a bit. You now have a powerful anti-armor sidearm, and a decent finisher. Direct Damage is necessary to get full effect out of the gun, and shield suits will still be a problem. NEVER TOUCH THE ROF. NEVER AGAIN. That is all. EDIT: Problem with the Ion Pistol. You can technically fire it indefinitely without charge. You only overheat if you hold down the trigger too long while firing (And the gun attempts to part charge each individual shot) If you make charge shots only heat up to 80%, you could fire the shot, and then empty the clip without problems. A less elegant solution would be to make the gun consume 8 shots to fire a charge, and then to remove overheat. What I was thinking is increasing the Ion pistol heat cost to (assuming 100%) 6% per single shot and 80% for a charged shot. Without a charged shot (+ the cool down and reload) the gun will never overheat by normal firing it nor carry over a charge, but using one charged shot and a follow up of 4 shots will overheat the gun. supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
BL4CKST4R Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 2837	Posted - 2014.06.20 13:35:00 - [9] - Quote Bump, spreadsheet has more numbers now :) supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 103	Posted - 2014.06.20 14:45:00 - [10] - Quote leave the SMG as it is as i sometimes have to use it as a replacement light weapon with lower range and lower pg/cpu cost because I AM A LOGI and some load-outs are just IMPOSSIBRU with out the Assault SMG for personal defense. and yes all weapons may seem like sidearms but there is a big difference between the PISTOL types and SMG types the ion pistol needs lower thermal exhausting after firing a charged shot or else its time to die waiting that 3+ seconds the scrambler.. seems in line with the scrambler rifle tho maybe slightly less Damage per shot Bolt pistol cannot comment as i have not used it yet but have died to it.. ONCE.. as it seems no one uses it hardly ever flaylock need some buffing and love in many areas magsec.. due to being the slightly higher dps smg type weapon and longer range it could do with a scope instead of iron sights, and maybe less kick and slightly less dispersal since its a rail type weapon where if you use RR you know you get hardly any kick/dispersal at all which is also the drawback at close range. SMG.. fine as it is and also requires alot more SP to keep up with the magsec (ie to lower dispersal), breach SMG needs a slight dmg or ROF buff as i don't think any one uses that type at all due to its lacking in dps/stopping power Minmatar Logibro in training. Rusty needles anyone? No Mic and no time for "Squeekers" Nerf scout cloak+shotgun

Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 103	Posted - 2014.06.20 14:47:00 - [11] - Quote why not give the scrambler and Ion a burst fire variant ( a bit like their light weapon counterparts) think M93R or burst fire GLock17/18 normal varient scrambler pistol should have a version where it can do a charged shot too like its daddy the ScR Minmatar Logibro in training. Rusty needles anyone? No Mic and no time for "Squeekers" Nerf scout cloak+shotgun
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 103	Posted - 2014.06.20 14:50:00 - [12] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1XLKQOSker6X38Flzxd8EzLcNIPKdi9E2xOO0xO8DM2c/edit?usp=sharing Sidearms are a pretty unbalanced aspect in Dust 514. Some sidearms are or were so powerful that they took the place of Light weapons, while others are so useless that you are better off running without a sidearm. Going by my spreadsheet pistols have higher DPS than SMGs but SMGs have a higher damage per clip. Another imbalanced aspect of sidearms is pistols versus submachine guns. In my opinion a pistol should have a higher DPS than a submachine gun but be more specific in usage, while a submachine gun should be a bit more of a generalist weapon. Also range v DPS should also apply to side arms, meaning that the DPS scale should go Gallente (at highest) - Minmatar - Amarr - Caldari (at lowest) while the range scale would be the inverse. Spreadsheet v.1 suggested changes: >Equalized the range of the Bolt Pistol (45M), Magsec SMG (40M), and the Ion Pistol (24M) >Bolt pistol received a 5% Damage increase >Magsec SMG received a 5% Damage reduction (recoil should be slightly decreased to compensate) >Ion Pistol received a 25% Damage increase >Ion Pistol received a +4 clip increase >Ion Pistol should overheat at around 80% or enough so 3-4 shots will overheat it after the charged shot. >~~Submachine gun received a 5% Damage increase (no changes to variants yet)~~ >Equalized the blast radius of the flaylock pistol tiers to 1.50 meters Spreadsheet v.2 suggested changes: >Increased direct damage of the Flaylock pistol by ~~~40% (272, 285, 300)~~ ~32% (245, 257, 270) >Some changes to the Assault Scrambler pistol (not final need range values) ROF set to 350 but damage lowered. >Increased Magsec SMG so its DPS is only 2% lower not 5% lower. Spreadsheet v.3 suggested changes: >Removed the SMG damage buff of 5% because the SMG is pretty awesome as it is >Gave the Scrambler pistols equal range values >Buffed the Breach scrambler pistol by around 20% and gave it a range of 40 so its more of a long range pistol not short range >Gave the Assault scrambler pistol a range of 28M and a small DPS reduction (5%), but the ROF is increased to 350. >Increased ROF of the Scrambler pistol to 300, damage reduced accordingly NO DPS CHANGE. >Increased ROF of the Breach SMG to 720 range set at 32M. >Increased and equalized Range of SMG to 28M >Reduced and equalized Range of Assault SMG to 24M. >Increased clip of the Bolt pistol by +2. >Reduced the clip of the Breach SMG to 54. Feedback greatly appreciated along with range values for M209 Assault submachine gun, Boundless Breach SMG, Ishukone Assault SMG, TT-3 Assault Scrambler, TY-5 Breach Scrambler, and the Carthum Assault Scrambler. you claim gallente should have highest dps and yet scrambler Rifle vastly out-dps's AR by like 2x at standard level Minmatar Logibro in training. Rusty needles anyone? No Mic and no time for "Squeekers" Nerf scout cloak+shotgun
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 3788	Posted - 2014.06.20 15:13:00 - [13] - Quote The SMG and the Scrambler Pistol are balanced with each other. The SMG is more popular because the Scrambler Pistol requires you to be a good shot to realize its potential. Pistols are meant to be Skill Shot weapons. The MagSec SMG is balanced. It does a lot of damage and has a long range, but this is balanced by a significant amount of kick, even when fully skilled. While it is less user friendly than the SMG, it is a good choice when combined with short range weapons such as the HMG. It has its place and does its job. The Ion Pistol and Flaylock pistol are underpowered. They should be buffed to be closer in effectiveness to the Scrambler Pistol. (Personally I think the Ion Pistol should be a pocket Shotgun.) I have not used the Bolt Pistol. How does it compare to the Scrambler Pistol? Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
BL4CKST4R Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 2837	Posted - 2014.06.20 15:21:00 - [14] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: The SMG and the Scrambler Pistol are balanced with each other. The SMG is more popular because the Scrambler Pistol requires you to be a good shot to realize its potential. Pistols are meant to be Skill Shot weapons. The MagSec SMG is balanced. It does a lot of damage and has a long range, but this is balanced by a significant amount of kick, even when fully skilled. While it is less user friendly than the SMG, it is a good choice when combined with short range weapons such as the HMG. It has its place and does its job. The Ion Pistol and Flaylock pistol are underpowered. They should be buffed to be closer in effectiveness to the Scrambler Pistol. (Personally I think the Ion Pistol should be a pocket Shotgun.) I have not used the Bolt Pistol. How does it compare to the Scrambler Pistol? The bolt pistol is pretty bad specially since it is a charged weapon you really have to aim very well between those charges or it will miss all the time. I increased the damage in the spreadsheet so it's dps doesn't suck but the above still remains true. As for the magsec I did reduce the damage slightly so it's easier to balance it in the short range- long range aspect but I did add that it's recoil should be slightly reduced to counteract this. As for the smg and scrambler I made no changes except a rof increase to the scrambler and some changes to the terrible variants but I do like how they perform now vanilla. Do appreciate the feedback supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
Lorhak Gannarsein Legio DXIV 3648	Posted - 2014.06.20 15:26:00 - [15] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: The SMG and the Scrambler Pistol are balanced with each other. The SMG is more popular because the Scrambler Pistol requires you to be a good shot to realize its potential. Pistols are meant to be Skill Shot weapons. The MagSec SMG is balanced. It does a lot of damage and has a long range, but this is balanced by a significant amount of kick, even when fully skilled. While it is less user friendly than the SMG, it is a good choice when combined with short range weapons such as the HMG. It has its place and does its job. The Ion Pistol and Flaylock pistol are underpowered. They should be buffed to be closer in effectiveness to the Scrambler Pistol. (Personally I think the Ion Pistol should be a pocket Shotgun.) I have not used the Bolt Pistol. How does it compare to the Scrambler Pistol? It's comparable, but inferior in my opinion. It does have longer range and higher damage, but it's got pathetic DPS. It's very difficult to make a kill solely with the bolt pistol compared to the Scrambler Pistol. Its biggest drawback though I think would have to be its obscene PG consumption; it takes more PG than most light weapons do at any given tier, from memory, and this isn't justified by its power (or lack thereof). I was considering taking it to proto, but I can't justify 14 PG on my sidearm. I can barely justify 10. ScP is in a pretty good place at the moment; it and the SMG are pretty comparable. ScP is technically more powerful, but the SMG is far more reliable; this is the same reason we don't see so many Magsec SMGs compared to traditional SMGs. I think the MSMG could use a small (VERY SMALL) recoil reduction; otherwise I think it's fine. I didn't bother taking IoP even to ADV. It needs some serious reworking. Possibly just a totally clean slate. CCP Rattati Best Dev AmLogi 5 GÇó AmAss 5 GÇó AmSent 4 GÇó CalScout 5 CalLogi, you're next!
XxGhazbaranxX Eternal Beings Proficiency V. 1562	Posted - 2014.06.20 15:37:00 - [16] - Quote There is no reason to reduce the range of the bolt pistol down to the standard level on all three tiers. It should be homogenous with proto level since its the defining aspect of the weapon and the subpar dps. Range over power. With some of the range buffs proposed in the sheet, to maintain balance there should be a clear cut winner in range. Plasma Cannon Advocate Dust 514 Survivor
BL4CKST4R Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 2837	Posted - 2014.06.20 16:00:00 - [17] - Quote XxGhazbaranxX wrote: There is no reason to reduce the range of the bolt pistol down to the standard level on all three tiers. It should be homogenous with proto level since its the defining aspect of the weapon and the subpar dps. Range over power. With some of the range buffs proposed in the sheet, to maintain balance there should be a clear cut winner in range. Increased the range a little bit, the problem is the more the range goes up the harder it is so find a good balance between range and DPS. supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
Bojo The Mighty Spaceman Drug Cartel-Uno 3882	Posted - 2014.06.20 20:42:00 - [18] - Quote On Scrambler Pistols Right now, they are good, do not touch. The RoF nerf was a shocker when it landed but I have gotten used to it and it is better that the RoF got nerfed rather than damage and here is why. As of now pistols can run out of ammo very quickly (not as quickly as before thanks RoF nerf) in relation to their RoF and nerfing damage over RoF also nerfs your total ammunition x damage. And really the range buff on ScP's was kind of glorious and the Breach ScP did not experience any nerf what so ever in RoF/damage so the breach is a very viable Scrambler Pistol. If you try and mess with Scrambler Pistols past current point they'd never feel right. We don't want ScSMG's (well we do but...) we want brain splatting, heat bringing, kung pow chicken roasting pistols that hit hard. Lastly has anyone tried the IA5 recently? I might have to investigate it again see what it feels like nowadays. I'm not resting in peace but rather wandering as a zombie in vengeance of no good reason
Boot Booter Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 591	Posted - 2014.06.21 04:26:00 - [19] - Quote Nice work on this. I made some suggestions for the flaylock with a bit of a different philosophy than what you have. Check out my thread if you want. Dont worry there's a spreadsheet... Thread SMG Specialist
Ralden Caster KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 64	Posted - 2014.07.18 21:05:00 - [20] - Quote I think the ion pistol should work as a trishot pistol, firing 3 bullets at once and having spread to make it a bad choice at a range, but more reliable at close quarters due to the spread and quantity of bullets. Shots should be capable of being charged to fire a single, large projectile for more accuracy at ranges. Overheating should be removed from the gun and make charging shots use up more ammo, I.E. 3 bullets per charge as opposed to 1 per shot. Team Fortress 2


CCP Logibro C C P C C P Alliance 8612	Posted - 2014.07.18 21:08:00 - [21] - Quote You should hang onto your numbers, but put them away for now. We'll be looking at Sidearms in Delta. CCP Logibro // Patron Saint of Logistics // Distributor of Nanites (a¦á_a¦á)

Zindorak CaUsE-4-CoNcErN 148	Posted - 2014.07.18 21:11:00 - [22] - Quote Nooooooo my beautiful Scrambler pistooooooool
Fizzer94 Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2976	Posted - 2014.07.19 00:17:00 - [23] - Quote No more ScP nerfs plz. My soul can't take it. For the love of all that is Holy, just buff it back to its prenerf stats... My best match on Dust, 23/6/4 Placon. Please unnerf ScPs and fix IoPs...
Bormir1r Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 546	Posted - 2014.07.19 00:40:00 - [24] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: The SMG and the Scrambler Pistol are balanced with each other. The SMG is more popular because the Scrambler Pistol requires you to be a good shot to realize its potential. Pistols are meant to be Skill Shot weapons. The MagSec SMG is balanced. It does a lot of damage and has a long range, but this is balanced by a significant amount of kick, even when fully skilled. While it is less user friendly than the SMG, it is a good choice when combined with short range weapons such as the HMG. It has its place and does its job. The Ion Pistol and Flaylock pistol are underpowered. They should be buffed to be closer in effectiveness to the Scrambler Pistol. (Personally I think the Ion Pistol should be a pocket Shotgun.) I have not used the Bolt Pistol. How does it compare to the Scrambler Pistol? The bolt pistol is pretty bad specially since it is a charged weapon you really have to aim very well between those charges or it will miss all the time. I increased the damage in the spreadsheet so it's dps doesn't suck but the above still remains true. As for the magsec I did reduce the damage slightly so it's easier to balance it in the short range- long range aspect but I did add that it's recoil should be slightly reduced to counteract this. As for the smg and scrambler I made no changes except a rof increase to the scrambler and some changes to the terrible variants but I do like how they perform now vanilla. Do appreciate the feedback I would think the RoF of the Scrambler pistol should be a bit more, and the Ion pistol should get more damage, with the charge shot having a shorter freeze time (after charge shot) 2 seconds perhaps? "One does not simply" run like a Raptor. Only Mk.0 Scouts will do that. NK are my Teeth, Kin Cats are my Legs.
iKILLu osborne Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 82	Posted - 2014.07.19 00:45:00 - [25] - Quote Fizzer94 wrote: No more ScP nerfs plz. My soul can't take it. For the love of all that is Holy, just buff it back to its prenerf stats... for gods sake listen to the man and what the heck is up with the rof issue sometimes i can quickdraw magraw pewpewpewpewpewpew other times it sputters pewpew...pew..pew...pewpewpew yes pewpews is the best way to explain it here is a joke, so an amarr scout walks in lol after charlie it will be"oh shlt a amarr scout walked in"
Fizzer94 Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2977	Posted - 2014.07.19 00:50:00 - [26] - Quote iKILLu osborne wrote: Fizzer94 wrote: No more ScP nerfs plz. My soul can't take it. For the love of all that is Holy, just buff it back to its prenerf stats... for gods sake listen to the man and what the heck is up with the rof issue sometimes i can quickdraw magraw pewpewpewpewpewpew other times it sputters pewpew...pew..pew...pewpewpew yes pewpews is the best way to explain it That is called oversampling. The RoF nerf is the cause. It happens when you pull the trigger before the weapon can fire again. It causes you to waste time on pulling the trigger, and effectively slows down the RoF. My best match on Dust, 23/6/4 Placon. Please unnerf ScPs and fix IoPs...
Bojo The Mighty Spaceman Drug Cartel-Uno 4209	Posted - 2014.07.19 00:54:00 - [27] - Quote Fizzer94 wrote: iKILLu osborne wrote: Fizzer94 wrote: No more ScP nerfs plz. My soul can't take it. For the love of all that is Holy, just buff it back to its prenerf stats... for gods sake listen to the man and what the heck is up with the rof issue sometimes i can quickdraw magraw pewpewpewpewpewpew other times it sputters pewpew...pew..pew...pewpewpew yes pewpews is the best way to explain it That is called oversampling. The RoF nerf is the cause. It happens when you pull the trigger before the weapon can fire again. It causes you to waste time on pulling the trigger, and effectively slows down the RoF. I'm going to be completely honest, Assault ScP's were secretly OP and we all knew it. That thing had no disadvantage. The RoF nerf honestly didn't do too much. I do get far less kills with my KLO-1 but that's because I'm not pray & sprayin' like we used to do. I think that we need to undo the nerf by 50%. Something that doesn't put it back to where it was because I think trigger spam was a little too prevalent thus people are oversampling it nowadays because they're still thinking like old ScPs, but at the same time something that makes the KLO-1 tie the TY-5. Primarily my ScP kills come from the TY-5 which was untouched. Perhaps a little RoF buff and a little precision buff hmm? EDIT: CAR-9 needs buff badly. That thing sprays everywhere, it's only really good if you're rubbing noses with the enemy and manage to land 2-3 shots in the head. Smell the burning flesh. Taste the tangy sulfur air. Volcano Season - Moltar's Haiku : SGC2C
iKILLu osborne Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 82	Posted - 2014.07.19 00:59:00 - [28] - Quote Fizzer94 wrote: iKILLu osborne wrote: Fizzer94 wrote: No more ScP nerfs plz. My soul can't take it. For the love of all that is Holy, just buff it back to its prenerf stats... for gods sake listen to the man and what the heck is up with the rof issue sometimes i can quickdraw magraw pewpewpewpewpewpew other times it sputters pewpew...pew..pew...pewpewpew yes pewpews is the best way to explain it That is called oversampling. The RoF nerf is the cause. It happens when you pull the trigger before the weapon can fire again. It causes you to waste time on pulling the trigger, and effectively slows down the RoF. thanks for the info so assuming i don't spam my trigger like a madman no more sputters here is a joke, so an amarr scout walks in lol after charlie it will be"oh shlt a amarr scout walked in"
Fizzer94 Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2977	Posted - 2014.07.19 00:59:00 - [29] - Quote Bojo The Mighty wrote: Fizzer94 wrote: iKILLu osborne wrote: Fizzer94 wrote: No more ScP nerfs plz. My soul can't take it. For the love of all that is Holy, just buff it back to its prenerf stats... for gods sake listen to the man and what the heck is up with the rof issue sometimes i can quickdraw magraw pewpewpewpewpewpew other times it sputters pewpew...pew..pew...pewpewpew yes pewpews is the best way to explain it That is called oversampling. The RoF nerf is the cause. It happens when you pull the trigger before the weapon can fire again. It causes you to waste time on pulling the trigger, and effectively slows down the RoF. I'm going to be completely honest, Assault ScP's were secretly OP and we all knew it. That thing had no disadvantage. The RoF nerf honestly didn't do too much. I do get far less kills with my KLO-1 but that's because I'm not pray & sprayin' like we used to do. I think that we need to undo the nerf by 50%. Something that doesn't put it back to where it was because I think trigger spam was a little too prevalent thus people are oversampling it nowadays because they're still thinking like old ScPs, but at the same time something that makes the KLO-1 tie the TY-5. Primarily my ScP kills come from the TY-5 which was untouched. Perhaps a little RoF buff and a little precision buff hmm? Part of the reason the AScPs were so good was because their RoF increase as the theirs went up as well. I think they should have just standardized the RoF across the tiers. 400 for Standard and Tactical 425 for Assault ??? for Breach (can't remember what it was) ??? for Burst (can't remember what it was) My best match on Dust, 23/6/4 Placon. Please unnerf ScPs and fix IoPs...
Bojo The Mighty Spaceman Drug Cartel-Uno 4210	Posted - 2014.07.19 01:03:00 - [30] - Quote Fizzer94 wrote: Part of the reason the AScPs were so good was because their RoF increase as the theirs went up as well. I think they should have just standardized the RoF across the tiers. 400 for Standard and Tactical 425 for Assault ??? for Breach (can't remember what it was) ??? for Burst (can't remember what it was) Breach was never touched, that's why I get most of my kills with it. Also Tactical should be 425, they share RoF with the Assaults but lower damage. Smell the burning flesh. Taste the tangy sulfur air. Volcano Season - Moltar's Haiku : SGC2C

BL4CKST4R La Muerte Eterna Dark Taboo 2921	Posted - 2014.08.17 16:58:00 - [31] - Quote Edited and bumped for hotfix delta. supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
Pseudogenesis Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 291	Posted - 2014.08.17 19:14:00 - [32] - Quote I'm really hesitant to nerf things like the ScP or SMG. In my opinion both are at the level that sidearms should be at, and the other sidearms simply need to be brought up to the same level of effectiveness. SMG probably needs a nerf. I think ScP is at the level of balance that all other sidearms should be. Just DO NOT TOUCH THE NOVA KNIVES. They are perfect. I'd kill for a backpedal penalty, but even without one they're still a complete blast. Stabby-stabber extraordinaire
Ghost Steps G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 2	Posted - 2014.08.17 19:49:00 - [33] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Bh-nAFbrVqS_v6SE0J5Oauub8D4NLanH4Qp4vmsZaiU/edit?usp=sharing Sidearms are a pretty unbalanced aspect in Dust 514. Some sidearms are or were so powerful that they took the place of Light weapons, while others are so useless that you are better off running without a sidearm. In my opinion a pistol should have a higher DPS than a submachine gun but be more specific in usage, while a submachine gun should be a bit more of a generalist weapon. *Ion Pistol and Bolt pistol:* For the Ion pistol have a proposed a new overheat calculation, which is written in the spreadsheet. Basically a Ion pistol should get one charged shot and 2-3 single shots before overheat, this means that the initial heat increase per shot needs to be increased considerably and the charged shot overheat reduced. It also needs a hipfire reduction. There should also be a mechanic implemented that a held Charge shot while automatically fire itself after X amount of time held, this would include the Scrambler rifle as holding a charge after buffing the Ion pistol would make it extremely OP. The bolt pistol requires a slight DPS increase but the firing mechanic should be looked at, it is understandable that as a Caldari weapon is requires a charge between shots but being automatic and requiring a very long charge between automatic shots it makes it difficult to use. I suggest that it be made semi-automatic and a very small but noticeable charge between each single shot. The charge does not have to be held as taping it while cycle both the charge AND the shot. Or applying a charged burst mechanic would make this gun extremely unique (aside from the Burst scrambler). Although damage and ROF would need to be changed. Magsec SMG: It requires a slight recoil reduction. Being a long range side arm it is difficult to use due to its extreme recoil. *CQC Weapons:* There should also be an overall increase in the Hip fire spread (the reticle) to long range side arms, while short range side arms maintaining a smaller reticle. This should also apply to light weapons, although a side arm would be better than a light weapon at hip firing. The reason being is that to many long range weapons are to good at CQC. About the Magsec... it needs better sights even better that Min SMG cus it has longer range.
BL4CKST4R La Muerte Eterna Dark Taboo 2922	Posted - 2014.08.17 20:02:00 - [34] - Quote Pseudogenesis wrote: I'm really hesitant to nerf things like the ScP or SMG. In my opinion both are at the level that sidearms should be at, and the other sidearms simply need to be brought up to the same level of effectiveness. SMG probably needs a nerf. I think ScP is at the level of balance that all other sidearms should be. Just DO NOT TOUCH THE NOVA KNIVES. They are perfect. I'd kill for a backpedal penalty, but even without one they're still a complete blast. Didnt nerf any side arms except the Assault SCP and the Magsec got a very tiny DPS reduction so its DPS is slightly under the SMG. supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1737	Posted - 2014.08.17 21:58:00 - [35] - Quote Having put together my own pistol proposal and spreadsheet a couple of weeks ago I'm going to drop it off here for more comments. We really do need to get rid of one of the three threads running on this topic right now though so we can consolidate the conversation. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1y11ucsP7Rz710nL8iYQxGljxHtdspHiHyVdIFFNOdDc/edit?usp=sharing Fun > Realism
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1737	Posted - 2014.08.17 21:59:00 - [36] - Quote Pseudogenesis wrote: I'm really hesitant to nerf things like the ScP or SMG. In my opinion both are at the level that sidearms should be at, and the other sidearms simply need to be brought up to the same level of effectiveness. complete blast. I totally agree with you. Fun > Realism
BL4CKST4R La Muerte Eterna Dark Taboo 2922	Posted - 2014.08.17 22:37:00 - [37] - Quote Mobius Kaethis wrote: Having put together my own pistol proposal and spreadsheet a couple of weeks ago I'm going to drop it off here for more comments. We really do need to get rid of one of the three threads running on this topic right now though so we can consolidate the conversation. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1y11ucsP7Rz710nL8iYQxGljxHtdspHiHyVdIFFNOdDc/edit?usp=sharing I've seen it, although one thing is that the DPS of pistols is pretty much the same all around which means the one with the longest range will obviously be the better one (the bolt or scrambler), something I am trying to avoid. supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1738	Posted - 2014.08.18 00:13:00 - [38] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: Mobius Kaethis wrote: Having put together my own pistol proposal and spreadsheet a couple of weeks ago I'm going to drop it off here for more comments. We really do need to get rid of one of the three threads running on this topic right now though so we can consolidate the conversation. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1y11ucsP7Rz710nL8iYQxGljxHtdspHiHyVdIFFNOdDc/edit?usp=sharing I've seen it, although one thing is that the DPS of pistols is pretty much the same all around which means the one with the longest range will obviously be the better one (the bolt or scrambler), something I am trying to avoid. I totally agree that pistols need to have the same inverse relationship between damage and range which I put in but kept the difference rather small. I agree that this is something that could be made more dramatic. Fun > Realism
BL4CKST4R La Muerte Eterna Dark Taboo 2924	Posted - 2014.08.18 02:21:00 - [39] - Quote Mobius Kaethis wrote: BL4CKST4R wrote: Mobius Kaethis wrote: Having put together my own pistol proposal and spreadsheet a couple of weeks ago I'm going to drop it off here for more comments. We really do need to get rid of one of the three threads running on this topic right now though so we can consolidate the conversation. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1y11ucsP7Rz710nL8iYQxGljxHtdspHiHyVdIFFNOdDc/edit?usp=sharing I've seen it, although one thing is that the DPS of pistols is pretty much the same all around which means the one with the longest range will obviously be the better one (the bolt or scrambler), something I am trying to avoid. I totally agree that pistols need to have the same inverse relationship between damage and range which I put in but kept the difference rather small. I agree that this is something that could be made more dramatic. I will extend the same invite to you that I extended to Kagehoshi. In the interest of presenting a single unified proposal to the Dev's from the community would you like to comine forces and spreadsheets? Message me in game if you are interested with your gmail account and I'll set you up with editing access on my spreadsheet. Perhaps we can combine this thread into Kagehoshi's thread too or vice versa. Sure just make a copy of my spreadsheet and edit as you please or just copy what you like to your spreadsheet as long as the Dev's find use for our work idc what happens I just want to have something powerful on my hip ;) supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
ACT1ON BASTARD Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 65	Posted - 2014.08.18 22:05:00 - [40] - Quote Can you guys fix bugs instead. Sidearms are fine.

Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1744	Posted - 2014.08.19 00:26:00 - [41] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: Mobius Kaethis wrote: BL4CKST4R wrote: Mobius Kaethis wrote: Having put together my own pistol proposal and spreadsheet a couple of weeks ago I'm going to drop it off here for more comments. We really do need to get rid of one of the three threads running on this topic right now though so we can consolidate the conversation. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1y11ucsP7Rz710nL8iYQxGljxHtdspHiHyVdIFFNOdDc/edit?usp=sharing I've seen it, although one thing is that the DPS of pistols is pretty much the same all around which means the one with the longest range will obviously be the better one (the bolt or scrambler), something I am trying to avoid. I totally agree that pistols need to have the same inverse relationship between damage and range which I put in but kept the difference rather small. I agree that this is something that could be made more dramatic. I will extend the same invite to you that I extended to Kagehoshi. In the interest of presenting a single unified proposal to the Dev's from the community would you like to comine forces and spreadsheets? Message me in game if you are interested with your gmail account and I'll set you up with editing access on my spreadsheet. Perhaps we can combine this thread into Kagehoshi's thread too or vice versa. Sure just make a copy of my spreadsheet and edit as you please or just copy what you like to your spreadsheet as long as the Dev's find use for our work idc what happens I just want to have something powerful on my hip ;) I will definitely include your spreadsheet and I totally agree. Fun > Realism
Zindorak 1.U.P 632	Posted - 2014.08.19 03:35:00 - [42] - Quote Bojo The Mighty wrote: Fizzer94 wrote: iKILLu osborne wrote: Fizzer94 wrote: No more ScP nerfs plz. My soul can't take it. For the love of all that is Holy, just buff it back to its prenerf stats... for gods sake listen to the man and what the heck is up with the rof issue sometimes i can quickdraw magraw pewpewpewpewpewpew other times it sputters pewpew...pew..pew...pewpewpew yes pewpews is the best way to explain it That is called oversampling. The RoF nerf is the cause. It happens when you pull the trigger before the weapon can fire again. It causes you to waste time on pulling the trigger, and effectively slows down the RoF. I'm going to be completely honest, Assault ScP's were secretly UP and we all knew it. That thing had no advantage. The RoF nerf honestly didn't do too much. I do get far less kills with my KLO-1 but that's because I'm not pray & sprayin' like we used to do. I think that we need to undo the nerf by 50%. Something that doesn't put it back to where it was because I think trigger spam was a little too prevalent thus people are oversampling it nowadays because they're still thinking like old ScPs, but at the same time something that makes the KLO-1 tie the TY-5. Primarily my ScP kills come from the TY-5 which was untouched. Perhaps a little RoF buff and a little precision buff hmm? EDIT: CAR-9 needs buff badly. That thing sprays everywhere, it's only really good if you're rubbing noses with the enemy and manage to land 2-3 shots in the head. fixed Pokemon master
Gelan Corbaine Gladiators Vanguard 477	Posted - 2014.08.19 09:08:00 - [43] - Quote ACT1ON BASTARD wrote: Can you guys fix bugs instead. Sidearms are fine. looks at his Flaylock. Whacks AB over the head with it . No job is worth doing if you don't get paid in the end .
ACT1ON BASTARD Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 69	Posted - 2014.08.19 21:40:00 - [44] - Quote Gelan Corbaine wrote: ACT1ON BASTARD wrote: Can you guys fix bugs instead. Sidearms are fine. looks at his Flaylock. Whacks AB over the head with it . Im a bastard with the flaylok i dont know whats wrong with you.
ladwar HEARTS OF PHOENIX 2055	Posted - 2014.08.19 23:59:00 - [45] - Quote Smg= fine Scambler ;switch charge with ion. Add more heat to single shots less to charge but cost more ammo and doesnt overheat with one charge. Flaylock; drop bonus to area and make it direct damage, normalize area to 1.75m for non breach reduce splash add direct damage . Ion pistol ; remove charge and heat , make mag size 24. Done Nk; fine, vehicle damage should go to 20% but not a priority Bolt pistol ; add range and damage , lower dps with lower rof. increase headshoot to 250% -400%, somewhere in that range. And this will probably go on deaf ears but thats how they should be balanced. Level 2 Forum Warrior, bitter vet. I shall smite Thy Trolls with numbers and truth doing reviews in free time, want 1?
BL4CKST4R La Muerte Eterna Dark Taboo 2929	Posted - 2014.08.20 00:51:00 - [46] - Quote ladwar wrote: Smg= fine Scambler ;switch charge with ion. Add more heat to single shots less to charge but cost more ammo and doesnt overheat with one charge. Flaylock; drop bonus to area and make it direct damage, normalize area to 1.75m for non breach reduce splash add direct damage . Ion pistol ; remove charge and heat , make mag size 24. Done Nk; fine, vehicle damage should go to 20% but not a priority Bolt pistol ; add range and damage , lower dps with lower rof. increase headshoot to 250% -400%, somewhere in that range. And this will probably go on deaf ears but thats how they should be balanced. >Ion pistol ; remove charge and heat , make mag size 24. Done >DPS will still suck on it. >Bolt pistol ; add range and damage , lower dps with lower rof. increase headshoot to 250% -400%, somewhere in that range. >Headshot damage should remain exactly how it is with the scrambler. 400% damage of a bolt pistol shot is close to 600 or more damage. That would be extremely OP, specially with longer range and damage as you suggest. All in all I would rather not change the mechanics of any of the weapons, i.e making the scrambler pistol charged etc. supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
ladwar HEARTS OF PHOENIX 2057	Posted - 2014.08.20 11:02:00 - [47] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: ladwar wrote: Smg= fine Scambler ;switch charge with ion. Add more heat to single shots less to charge but cost more ammo and doesnt overheat with one charge. Flaylock; drop bonus to area and make it direct damage, normalize area to 1.75m for non breach reduce splash add direct damage . Ion pistol ; remove charge and heat , make mag size 24. Done Nk; fine, vehicle damage should go to 20% but not a priority Bolt pistol ; add range and damage , lower dps with lower rof. increase headshoot to 250% -400%, somewhere in that range. And this will probably go on deaf ears but thats how they should be balanced. >Ion pistol ; remove charge and heat , make mag size 24. Done >DPS will still suck on it. >Bolt pistol ; add range and damage , lower dps with lower rof. increase headshoot to 250% -400%, somewhere in that range. >Headshot damage should remain exactly how it is with the scrambler. 400% damage of a bolt pistol shot is close to 600 or more damage. That would be extremely OP, specially with longer range and damage as you suggest. All in all I would rather not change the mechanics of any of the weapons, i.e making the scrambler pistol charged etc. Ion pistol could a slight up in rof or damage to place near the smgs dps, Bolt pistol with a slow rof to make hard in close range and making each shoot count ie rewarding aiming. Its balanced Level 2 Forum Warrior, bitter vet. I shall smite Thy Trolls with numbers and truth doing reviews in free time, want 1?
ladwar HEARTS OF PHOENIX 2057	Posted - 2014.08.20 22:32:00 - [48] - Quote Edited my above post, added mag sec smg which i had left out. Level 2 Forum Warrior, bitter vet. I shall smite Thy Trolls with numbers and truth doing reviews in free time, want 1?
ladwar HEARTS OF PHOENIX 2069	Posted - 2014.08.22 01:03:00 - [49] - Quote Not only a bumb but to revist the ion pistol dps was brought up to me and i went to actually look at its dps. As it stands now its less then the smg so with an added 12 damage across the board w/ minor scaling on teirs above this would be all that is needed. This even acounts 4 its semi auto fire. 62 base damage 4 standard from 50 with rof remaining the same. Level 2 Forum Warrior, bitter vet. I shall smite Thy Trolls with numbers and truth doing reviews in free time, want 1?
BL4CKST4R La Muerte Eterna Dark Taboo 2934	Posted - 2014.08.22 01:45:00 - [50] - Quote ladwar wrote: Not only a bumb but to revist the ion pistol dps was brought up to me and i went to actually look at its dps. As it stands now its less then the smg so with an added 12 damage across the board w/ minor scaling on teirs above this would be all that is needed. This even acounts 4 its semi auto fire. 62 base damage 4 standard from 50 with rof remaining the same. Buffing the damage is a good start but I would also like the ccharge shot mechanic also get looked it because as of right now and even if single shots gets buffed it is relatively useless. supercalifragilisticexpialidocious

ladwar HEARTS OF PHOENIX 2072	Posted - 2014.08.22 09:31:00 - [51] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: ladwar wrote: Not only a bumb but to revist the ion pistol dps was brought up to me and i went to actually look at its dps. As it stands now its less then the smg so with an added 12 damage across the board w/ minor scaling on teirs above this would be all that is needed. This even acounts 4 its semi auto fire. 62 base damage 4 standard from 50 with rof remaining the same. Buffing the damage is a good start but I would also like the ccharge shot mechanic also get looked it because as of right now and even if single shots gets buffed it is relatively useless. All the charge shot needs is heat =90 rather then 100. The damage plus ammo is the only change thats really needed. Level 2 Forum Warrior, bitter vet. I shall smite Thy Trolls with numbers and truth doing reviews in free time, want 1?
Lloyd Orfay Commando Perkone Caldari State 37	Posted - 2014.08.22 14:00:00 - [52] - Quote Pretty solid changes. I've been telling people for quite a while that the best balancing update for handheld weaponry is an addition of basic physics (The weapons having complementing recoil and dispersion based on the damage they're capable of) Yet there is another change that would benefit the weapons, More scope or iron sight zoom. I find certain weapons to have less zoom than would truly benefit their range. Combat rifles shoot quite far, yes have zoom on par with a reflex site, and laser rifles and rail rifles on par with acog scopes. They need more than that..... The only suits functional for good gameplay are logistics and sentinels, so rent your meat shield today!
Bojo The Mighty Spaceman Drug Cartel-Uno 5098	Posted - 2014.08.23 20:00:00 - [53] - Quote Zindorak wrote: fixed If you couldn't find the clear cut advantage the assault had/has then you were obviously blinded by the light. AScP was hands down better choice. Bojo For CPM


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