DUST Search - [Hotfix Charlie] Suggested Assault suit buff

Argetlam Thorson wrote:

I think something that would make the Assault class more viable is giving them damage buff role bonus (flat % or level based) OR giving them a resistance to their tank, similar the Sentinel bonus but not as specific. For example, you have an Amarr Assault suit (which you have skilled to level 5), you get a 15 % damage resistance from all damage done to your armor. Alternately, they could get a 10% damage (2% per level) bonus to all light weapons, while retaining their current racial light weapon bonus, so that people are still encouraged to use a matching racial weapon. A third option would be to give Assaults a reduction to the penalties associated with adding Shield Extenders and Armor Plates, depending on your race (which may or may not work with the current penalties, its hard to tell). Example being, a Amarr or Gallente who has specced to 5 gets a 75% reduction to the movement penalty, while Minmitar or Caldari Assault gets a 75% reduction to the Shield Extender recharge delay penalty.

TL;DR
Ideas for additional Assault bonuses
-Damage bonus (flat % addition or level based)
-Damage resistance to their racial tank
-Shield Extender/Armor Plate penalty reduction

Unless Assaults are totally reworked, giving them more than one of these additional bonuses would almost certainly be OP. Therefore, I would be very hesitant to add multiple of them, but if some testing could be done, it could be very educational.

Edit: Changed wording for clarity.

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Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 3747	Posted - 2014.06.18 17:06:00 - [1] - Quote I think the Assault suit role should be High DPS, Medium Health, Medium Speed/Agility. For more detail on how the Assault Role should fit in see my Rock, Paper, Scissors discussion. I would suggest a 10% per level bonus to Damage Modules. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
ResistanceGTA D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1324	Posted - 2014.06.18 17:10:00 - [2] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: I think the Assault suit role should be High DPS, Medium Health, Medium Speed/Agility. For more detail on how the Assault Role should fit in see my Rock, Paper, Scissors discussion. I would suggest a 10% per level bonus to Damage Modules. What about giving them the Commando Damage bonus, as other's have said? A 50% increase on 5% isn't that impressive really. If you find an issue and I stumble upon your thread, I will do my darnedest to get the issue known. Also, Raptors...
Harpyja Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1870	Posted - 2014.06.18 18:40:00 - [3] - Quote ResistanceGTA wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: I think the Assault suit role should be High DPS, Medium Health, Medium Speed/Agility. For more detail on how the Assault Role should fit in see my Rock, Paper, Scissors discussion. I would suggest a 10% per level bonus to Damage Modules. What about giving them the Commando Damage bonus, as other's have said? A 50% increase on 5% isn't that impressive really. And unusable on some suits. Makes as much sense as did the +1 armor/sec on the Caldari logi way back when. And yes, 50% on 5% is useless, considering there's better things to fit than damage amplifiers. I think the current bonuses should remain, but instead give each assault a defensive bonus as well. Then it will have a utility bonus (fitting reduction on weapons), offensive bonus for racial rifles, and then a racial defensive bonus. I think that makes sense. In my opinion, greater survivability brings more damage potential, and that's probably what it needs. I benefitted a lot today with having 82 extra armor on my Amarr assault by being able to fit an extra complex ferroscale plate now that I have one more low slot, and I believe that the assaults only need greater survivability. "By His light, and His will" - The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 3751	Posted - 2014.06.18 19:15:00 - [4] - Quote ResistanceGTA wrote: A 50% increase on 5% isn't that impressive really. It is equivalent to the buff to Armour Repair Modules, and what a difference that made! Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Harpyja Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1870	Posted - 2014.06.18 19:22:00 - [5] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: ResistanceGTA wrote: A 50% increase on 5% isn't that impressive really. It is equivalent to the buff to Armour Repair Modules, and what a difference that made! A 50% buff to complex armor reps meant that you got 50% more armor per second and you could get into battle with full armor 33% faster. A 50% buff to damage mods, however, would mean you can kill someone at a whopping 2.5% faster. If it took 1 second to kill someone, it'd take you 0.975 seconds with a 50% buff. Useless bonus in my opinion. "By His light, and His will" - The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 3752	Posted - 2014.06.18 19:32:00 - [6] - Quote Harpyja wrote: ResistanceGTA wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: I think the Assault suit role should be High DPS, Medium Health, Medium Speed/Agility. For more detail on how the Assault Role should fit in see my Rock, Paper, Scissors discussion. I would suggest a 10% per level bonus to Damage Modules. What about giving them the Commando Damage bonus, as other's have said? A 50% increase on 5% isn't that impressive really. And unusable on some suits. Makes as much sense as did the +1 armor/sec on the Caldari logi way back when. And yes, 50% on 5% is useless, considering there's better things to fit than damage amplifiers. I think the current bonuses should remain, but instead give each assault a defensive bonus as well. Then it will have a utility bonus (fitting reduction on weapons), offensive bonus for racial rifles, and then a racial defensive bonus. I think that makes sense. In my opinion, greater survivability brings more damage potential, and that's probably what it needs. I benefitted a lot today with having 82 extra armor on my Amarr assault by being able to fit an extra complex ferroscale plate now that I have one more low slot, and I believe that the assaults only need greater survivability. 1) You make a good point about the slot layout. Does the Gallente only have one high slot? That would be a good argument for not attaching the bonus to a module. It would also reduce fitting variety. 2) When Complex Damage Mods gave 10% damage bonus there was nothing else worth fitting in high slots. Having a 7.5% damage bonus would make damage Mods appealing. But there are still the points in point 1 to consider. 3) I feel the Assault suit should be a high damage medium health suit. I prefer to buff damage output rather than health. If you buff Assault survivability then what would be the difference between the Assault and the Commando? That is not to say you canGÇÖt use modules to add survivability. I am just saying I donGÇÖt think that a survival bonus is appropriate. So, given point 1, I am wondering if it would be better to have a direct 2% bonus to damage per level instead? Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2414	Posted - 2014.06.18 19:47:00 - [7] - Quote Fully in support of Assault buffs, the role needs some love and some specialization/definition. I support an on board bonus over a module bonus because of the fittings implications. Ideally it would be an on board bonus broken down by race so that each Assault has it's own unique niche and can be fine tuned more easily/dynamically if further polish is needed. I am opposed to giving the Assault on board eHP buffs, leave that to the realm of specific fittings otherwise we're diluting the role niche and opening the door for more "it's either OP or UP because it does to many things". To create balance we have to keep an eye on role, frame (in this case med), race, and inert-frame (e.g. light vs med vs heavy) balance. Assaults need love but we don't want to make one race better than the rest, one med frame better than the other, or the med/assault better than their light/heavy counterparts (niche specializations notwithstanding of course). A solid first step in this is to use frame attributes - stats, slots, fitting resources - for our racial baseline pallet. Med frames in mid range, lights fast, heavy tanked (you get the point). Apply racial specificity (Cal gets more Highs and CPU than Gal, for example) then use skill buffs to hone niche value and specificity (e.g. the Amarr Assault being better at optimizing LR or SR fits than the other frames). Run this way we can ensure that one frame size doesn't start to eclipse another, that Logi are survivable enough to be tactically viable, any Assault with it's racial LWs will be better than that brick tanked Sentinel with a LW, etc. and we'll be playing a game where there's a reason to field any frame, and thus much more diversity (read: enjoyment) in playing any given match because you won't be faced with the same vanishingly small number of fits repeated over and over again. Cheers, Cross Cross Atu for CPM1- An emergent candidate
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 3753	Posted - 2014.06.18 19:55:00 - [8] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: I support an on board bonus over a module bonus because of the fittings implications. Ideally it would be an on board bonus broken down by race so that each Assault has it's own unique niche and can be fine tuned more easily/dynamically if further polish is needed. I have been convinced of that as well, and have updated my original post. Also I would see this as an additional class bonus, allowing them to keep their current racial bonus. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 10353	Posted - 2014.06.18 20:01:00 - [9] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: ResistanceGTA wrote: A 50% increase on 5% isn't that impressive really. It is equivalent to the buff to Armour Repair Modules, and what a difference that made! Edit: Oops. I was forgetting about the multiplying effect of the Armor Repair module skill bonus. Actually, speaking as a Gallente Assault, it made all the difference in the world. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
Harpyja Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1871	Posted - 2014.06.18 20:33:00 - [10] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: I think the Assault suit role should be High DPS, Medium Health, Medium Speed/Agility. For more detail on how the Assault Role should fit in see my Rock, Paper, Scissors discussion. ~~I would suggest a 10% per level bonus to Damage Modules.~~ I would suggest a 2% per level bonus to damage. Yes the Commando has a more restrictive 2% damage buff as well, but the Commando is a variant on the Assault role, and having two Light Weapon slots makes a more restrictive damage bonus make sense. I recommend this as an additional bonus on top of the bonuses the Assault already get. They are slightly underpowered right now and their role is not well defined. This would give them a boost and more clearly define their role. Fully support. I don't think that changing the existing bonuses is the way to go because some of them are pretty decent, especially the CPU/PG reduction to light weapons and sidearms and Amarr's reduction to heat buildup. A second weapon role bonus seems appropriate. "By His light, and His will" - The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32

Argetlam Thorson Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 63	Posted - 2014.06.18 21:41:00 - [11] - Quote I think something that would make the Assault class more viable is giving them damage buff role bonus (flat % or level based) OR giving them a resistance to their tank, similar the Sentinel bonus but not as specific. For example, you have an Amarr Assault suit (which you have skilled to level 5), you get a 15 % damage resistance from all damage done to your armor. Alternately, they could get a 10% damage (2% per level) bonus to all light weapons, while retaining their current racial light weapon bonus, so that people are still encouraged to use a matching racial weapon. A third option would be to give Assaults a reduction to the penalties associated with adding Shield Extenders and Armor Plates, depending on your race (which may or may not work with the current penalties, its hard to tell). Example being, a Amarr or Gallente who has specced to 5 gets a 75% reduction to the movement penalty, while Minmitar or Caldari Assault gets a 75% reduction to the Shield Extender recharge delay penalty. TL;DR Ideas for additional Assault bonuses -Damage bonus (flat % addition or level based) -Damage resistance to their racial tank -Shield Extender/Armor Plate penalty reduction Unless Assaults are totally reworked, giving them more than one of these additional bonuses would almost certainly be OP. Therefore, I would be very hesitant to add multiple of them, but if some testing could be done, it could be very educational. Edit: Changed wording for clarity.
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2415	Posted - 2014.06.18 23:21:00 - [12] - Quote Argetlam Thorson wrote: I think something that would make the Assault class more viable is giving them damage buff role bonus (flat % or level based) OR giving them a resistance to their tank, similar the Sentinel bonus but not as specific. For example, you have an Amarr Assault suit (which you have skilled to level 5), you get a 15 % damage resistance from all damage done to your armor. Alternately, they could get a 10% damage (2% per level) bonus to all light weapons, while retaining their current racial light weapon bonus, so that people are still encouraged to use a matching racial weapon. A third option would be to give Assaults a reduction to the penalties associated with adding Shield Extenders and Armor Plates, depending on your race (which may or may not work with the current penalties, its hard to tell). Example being, a Amarr or Gallente who has specced to 5 gets a 75% reduction to the movement penalty, while Minmitar or Caldari Assault gets a 75% reduction to the Shield Extender recharge delay penalty. TL;DR Ideas for additional Assault bonuses -Damage bonus (flat % addition or level based) -Damage resistance to their racial tank -Shield Extender/Armor Plate penalty reduction Unless Assaults are totally reworked, giving them more than one of these additional bonuses would almost certainly be OP. Therefore, I would be very hesitant to add multiple of them, but if some testing could be done, it could be very educational. Edit: Changed wording for clarity. Highly support the first proposed idea, in fact have been supportive of similar concepts since at least day one of live launch. Am pretty deeply opposed to the other conceptions in light of how they'd effect role specificity and intra-frame balance. Assaults need love, but giving them love in a way that promotes their uniqueness rather than overlaps them more with other roles is important. Also giving the Assaults a unique bonus which makes them innately better slayers than Logi, while not requiring support logi be super fragile or non-combat viable is called for to attain game wide balance. 0.02 ISK Cross Cross Atu for CPM1- An emergent candidate
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 86	Posted - 2014.06.19 01:17:00 - [13] - Quote assaults should get passive scan buff for precision and range/duration Minmatar Logibro in training. Rusty needles anyone? No Mic and no time for "Squeekers" Nerf scout cloak+shotgun
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 3793	Posted - 2014.06.20 20:40:00 - [14] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: assaults should get passive scan buff for precision and range/duration No. That is a Scout's role. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Grimmiers 595	Posted - 2014.06.20 21:25:00 - [15] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: Apothecary Za'ki wrote: assaults should get passive scan buff for precision and range/duration No. That is a Scout's role. I like the idea have a gradual increase between frames. There's no reason why a medium frame can't have a lower precision/profile than a heavy. I think someone suggested 45 instead of 50 in another thread.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 3797	Posted - 2014.06.20 21:55:00 - [16] - Quote Grimmiers wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: Apothecary Za'ki wrote: assaults should get passive scan buff for precision and range/duration No. That is a Scout's role. I like the idea have a gradual increase between frames. There's no reason why a medium frame can't have a lower precision/profile than a heavy. I think someone suggested 45 instead of 50 in another thread. I believe a Sentinel's Precision is 65 and their Profile is 60. So Medium frames are already lower on both precision and profile than heavyGÇÖs. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Thokk Nightshade KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND 396	Posted - 2014.06.21 00:53:00 - [17] - Quote I thought of a different way to make them more attack based; Duel wielding. You can fit 2 sidearms (or one light weapon and one sidearm, if people don't think that is enough of a bonus) simultaneously and just map the 2nd weapon to the L2. Both hands are in use so the fighter can't throw grenades, so there is no use for that button in regards to nades. If one weapon is "put away", then the individual can throw grenades as well as equipment like nanohives, uplinks. In regards to weapon usage, The individual can fire both simultaneously but there is a 50% reduction in accuracy. If one or the other is fired by itself, no reduction to accuracy of sidearms but a 10% reduction to accuracy of light weapons (you will simply not be as accurate with a CR, AR, RR with one hand). Up close, however, this will give the user massive firepower (which is what an Assault should be, High DPS/Damage) but at a cost, so there are choices to be made by the user. The user will only have to reload 1/2 as often so they can sustain fire on a target for longer periods of time. To offset this, the one downside to this is reload needs should be bumped by 25% (so 4 second reload becomes 5 second, etc) since one weapon will have to be "holstered" in essence to reload the weapon. This will make the Assault suit what it should be; a medium armor, high Damage/DPS suit with maximum flexibility for killing and mayhem. Again, just throwing out a different idea to help the assault class since they need something to offset themselves and make it worthwhile to use one. Thokk Kill. Thokk Crush. Thokk Smash.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 3825	Posted - 2014.06.23 19:58:00 - [18] - Quote After thinking about this further I realize that a 1% per level buff gives them the equivalent of a Complex Damage mod at level 5, with no stacking penalty. Thinking on it further I now feel it would be best to give the 1% bonus, and if it is not enough, then up it to 2% in a later patch. Keep in mind that I am recommending they keep all their current bonuses as well. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Seymour KrelbornX Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 166	Posted - 2014.06.23 20:14:00 - [19] - Quote I really think that in addition to a dmg bonus, with should cover both weapon slots, they should also have a second grenade slot. what does the fox say?
Harpyja Legio DXIV 1919	Posted - 2014.06.23 23:30:00 - [20] - Quote Seymour KrelbornX wrote: I really think that in addition to a dmg bonus, with should cover both weapon slots, they should also have a second grenade slot. what does the fox say? It was Rattati or Logibro or someone that said that they quickly ran into a problem as there'd need to be a client update for a UI change for grenade selection. "By His light, and His will"- The Scriptures, 12:32 -- "Scouts should fart repeatedly while cloaked"- TechMechMeds

Alena Ventrallis The Neutral Zone Psychotic Alliance 1380	Posted - 2014.06.24 02:08:00 - [21] - Quote Assaults should deal lots of damage, and be slightly tanky. Their DPs should come from high damage, but they have to land that damage accurately. Commandos should deal damage through volume of fire, spraying an area with rounds to keep mercs heads down. Therefore, give assaults the current commando damage buff, and give commandos a 20% increase in mag size per level, doubling mag size at level 5. Now assaults deal more damage, like they should. And commandos can just keep shooting and shooting and shooting, like the suppression role they are supposed to fill. Calmanndo user with nova knives: Because someone has to do it.
Thokk Nightshade KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND 399	Posted - 2014.06.24 02:22:00 - [22] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: Assaults should deal lots of damage, and be slightly tanky. Their DPs should come from high damage, but they have to land that damage accurately. Commandos should deal damage through volume of fire, spraying an area with rounds to keep mercs heads down. Therefore, give assaults the current commando damage buff, and give commandos a 20% increase in mag size per level, doubling mag size at level 5. Now assaults deal more damage, like they should. And commandos can just keep shooting and shooting and shooting, like the suppression role they are supposed to fill. ^ = Rational thinking. And justification as to WHY on top of it. Bravo to you. Thokk Kill. Thokk Crush. Thokk Smash.
Auris Lionesse Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 910	Posted - 2014.06.24 02:55:00 - [23] - Quote give caldari assaults a regulator bonus so they can achieve 0 recharge delay because shields are supposed to be passive anyway. since we cant have active armor modules that rep 300-400 armor on gallente let them get a bonus to repairers, 7.5-10with skills is a joke, gallente should be able to eat direct fire and rep it to survive the fight, this ***** "down time" concept out of battle is one of the dumbest things ive heard of. give amarr damage resistances per level like the sacrilege has in eve. 4% a level now we just need a damage bonus, amarr have the overheat, add in a small range bonus. give caldari a rangebonus, give gallente a small damage or rof bonus. i dont play minmatar so someone else can suggest what they need. ideally all specialized suits (scouts, logi, assaults, commandos, and sentinels) should have 4 bonuses. 2 based on the skill pertaining to that suit. (scout skill for corresponding scout suit) and 2 bonues for the prerequisite skill (light suit operation) then a role bonus. scouts have the cloak bonus. for a role bonus kinetic catalyzers would be a possible option for assaults since thats the bonus the heavy assault cruisers get in eve. Gallente Heavy Ninja Turtles! Gallente Heavy Ninja Turtles! Heroes in a half Gank! *TURTLE POWER!!!*
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 3825	Posted - 2014.06.24 12:10:00 - [24] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: Assaults should deal lots of damage, and be slightly tanky. Their DPs should come from high damage, but they have to land that damage accurately. Commandos should deal damage through volume of fire, spraying an area with rounds to keep mercs heads down. Therefore, give assaults the current commando damage buff, and give commandos a 20% increase in mag size per level, doubling mag size at level 5. Now assaults deal more damage, like they should. And commandos can just keep shooting and shooting and shooting, like the suppression role they are supposed to fill. I fully support that suggestion. I think IWS made the same suggestion in the last Biomassed episode. The only change I would make is to remover the restriction on the damage bonus, as Assaults donGÇÖt have two light weapon slots, and already have a racial bonus. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.


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