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Death taxis are a broken tactic

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Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 14591	Posted - 2014.06.17 22:16:00 - [1] - Quote By 'death taxis' I mean the practice of using an LAV to make a heavy highly mobile and difficult to kill until driving up to someone, where they can jump out at point blank range and get almost guaranteed kills. I see this as a problem because there's very little you can do about it. The weaknesses of the heavy are that it's not very quick, doesn't have equipment, and if using a HMG has little range. All of these can be compensated for by using an LAV. Using an LAV essentially guarantees you can get into range, and speed is most definitely not a concern as you can easily outrun scouts in an LAV. It also compensates for equipment - you can put a scanner on the LAV (which is more effective than the infantry active scanners) and it's not difficult to make a quick supply depot run in an LAV. So all of the normal heavy weaknesses are accounted for. What about the weaknesses of the LAV? In a quick drive-by situation, they're essentially non-existent. In order to kill a vehicle, you need an AV weapon. No AV weapon is able to kill the LAV before it reaches them and they get mowed down. Even a pre-charged breach forge gun wouldn't be able to do this. So killing the LAV is out. What about killing the heavy once it gets out? The heavy has the largest health pool of an infantry unit by a long way, naturally. It also has the most effective anti-infantry weapon. When you're presented with this in close quarters, there is very little you can do. The LAV heavy can force this engagement. Nothing other than -possibly- another heavy can survive it. What if you start to beat the heavy? Maybe you have a teammate or two shooting the heavy as well. They may not be able to save you (it's quite likely they won't - the HMG will kill most targets in under a second) but maybe they'll be able to avenge you? Except they can't. Because the heavy can instantly hop back into the LAV, where a large health pool immune to small arms fire and the highest land mobility in the game awaits it. Death taxis are a broken mechanic. How to fix? In/out animations can't be done, apparently. Possibly reduce the HP of LAVs, so AV weapons can kill feasibly kill them before it drops the heavy next to them? For reasons unknown they received a load of HP buffs over Uprising - getting a large base HP buff after the first vehicle base HP patch, and then in the case of the armour LAVs getting a lot more HP in 1.7. A Baloch has some 3000 total HP - far too much to be realistically killable before you get ganked by a heavy. AV grenades used to be protective against this, but unless you're using Lai Dai packed grenades you won't be able to kill a Baloch and chances are the heavy can still get out anyway. I'm at a loss for how to fix this. But I feel that this is a very, very broken tactic. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 10715	Posted - 2014.06.17 22:18:00 - [2] - Quote Then by that logic is it fair to say Jihad Jeeps are a broken tactic.....which they are. "You are weak Ouryon....weakness serves not the Empire. I shall teach you strength." -Yurius of the Brutor to Ouryon
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 14594	Posted - 2014.06.17 22:20:00 - [3] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Then by that logic is it fair to say Jihad Jeeps are a broken tactic.....which they are. I don't think they're quite as broken because they require a variety of things such as committing suicide and some significant preparation time, though. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 2032	Posted - 2014.06.17 22:28:00 - [4] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Then by that logic is it fair to say Jihad Jeeps are a broken tactic.....which they are. They are, but they are also a solution to the broken relationship between tanks and AV. And tanks can blow them up pretty quickly if they are aware of them. Even if a scout in the open knows its coming, and I have been there, there are no counters. Period. This is how a minja feels
Godin Thekiller The Corporate Raiders 2622	Posted - 2014.06.17 22:40:00 - [5] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: True Adamance wrote: Then by that logic is it fair to say Jihad Jeeps are a broken tactic.....which they are. They are, but they are also a solution to the broken relationship between tanks and AV. And tanks can blow them up pretty quickly if they are aware of them. Even if a scout in the open knows the heavy/lav is coming, and I have been there, there are no counters. Period. step 1: put a cheap nitro, or a cheap hardener on the fit. step 2: Put RE's inside of the HAV step 3: swap out the fit with the RE's on it. Now the fit costs like 16k, and the HAV can't kill you in time. I call bullshit. click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Alabastor 'TheBlaster' Alcar Silver Bullet Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 670	Posted - 2014.06.17 22:41:00 - [6] - Quote a heavy with a lav is just part of the game dude its not gamebreaking just annoying
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 10718	Posted - 2014.06.17 22:43:00 - [7] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: True Adamance wrote: Then by that logic is it fair to say Jihad Jeeps are a broken tactic.....which they are. They are, but they are also a solution to the broken relationship between tanks and AV. And tanks can blow them up pretty quickly if they are aware of them. Even if a scout in the open knows the heavy/lav is coming, and I have been there, there are no counters. Period. Oh don't I know how broken the Av vs HAV situation is. I'll be the first to admit that. But one broken relationship should not require another broken relationship to counter. Resolving that initial relationship is what should be of primary concern. HAV power should be broken down in SP sink skills, and AV should have a slight buff. At low SP investment AV regardless of tier would destroy easily MLT and poorly skilled HAV. At moderate investments like mine, it would be more difficult requiring higher tier AV, and at 25+ Million in HAV we get current tank efficiencies. Very difficult to destroy without the correct applicationof force or and OB...(because really all OB should blow up tanks....except Siege Mode Maruaders...yes I do want those). "You are weak Ouryon....weakness serves not the Empire. I shall teach you strength." -Yurius of the Brutor to Ouryon
Godin Thekiller The Corporate Raiders 2622	Posted - 2014.06.17 22:46:00 - [8] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: True Adamance wrote: Then by that logic is it fair to say Jihad Jeeps are a broken tactic.....which they are. I don't think they're quite as broken because they require a variety of things such as committing suicide and some significant preparation time, though. Well I don't think murder taxis are quite as broken as it's not hard to kill people that hops out of a vehicle. You see the vehicle coming, you can just get ready to take the person out as soon as he/she hops out. Also, While the person is fighting you, a HAV can easily **** up the LAV while is stopped, and then kill the heavy if you die. click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Godin Thekiller The Corporate Raiders 2622	Posted - 2014.06.17 22:49:00 - [9] - Quote True Adamance wrote: One Eyed King wrote: True Adamance wrote: Then by that logic is it fair to say Jihad Jeeps are a broken tactic.....which they are. They are, but they are also a solution to the broken relationship between tanks and AV. And tanks can blow them up pretty quickly if they are aware of them. Even if a scout in the open knows the heavy/lav is coming, and I have been there, there are no counters. Period. Oh don't I know how broken the Av vs HAV situation is. I'll be the first to admit that. But one broken relationship should not require another broken relationship to counter. Resolving that initial relationship is what should be of primary concern. HAV power should be broken down in SP sink skills, and AV should have a slight buff. At low SP investment AV regardless of tier would destroy easily MLT and poorly skilled HAV. At moderate investments like mine, it would be more difficult requiring higher tier AV, and at 25+ Million in HAV we get current tank efficiencies. Very difficult to destroy without the correct applicationof force or and OB...(because really all OB should blow up tanks....except Siege Mode Maruaders...yes I do want those). It was fun sitting under OB's before................ click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 10719	Posted - 2014.06.17 23:03:00 - [10] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: True Adamance wrote: One Eyed King wrote: True Adamance wrote: Then by that logic is it fair to say Jihad Jeeps are a broken tactic.....which they are. They are, but they are also a solution to the broken relationship between tanks and AV. And tanks can blow them up pretty quickly if they are aware of them. Even if a scout in the open knows the heavy/lav is coming, and I have been there, there are no counters. Period. Oh don't I know how broken the Av vs HAV situation is. I'll be the first to admit that. But one broken relationship should not require another broken relationship to counter. Resolving that initial relationship is what should be of primary concern. HAV power should be broken down in SP sink skills, and AV should have a slight buff. At low SP investment AV regardless of tier would destroy easily MLT and poorly skilled HAV. At moderate investments like mine, it would be more difficult requiring higher tier AV, and at 25+ Million in HAV we get current tank efficiencies. Very difficult to destroy without the correct applicationof force or and OB...(because really all OB should blow up tanks....except Siege Mode Maruaders...yes I do want those). It was fun sitting under OB's before................ Yeah but lets be real about this. A frigate on average is 50m across its longest axis, and its guns are probably the size of our HAV's with significantly more force and energy behind them. Even glancing OB's really should be destroying us, flipping us over, irrevocably damaging systems. "You are weak Ouryon....weakness serves not the Empire. I shall teach you strength." -Yurius of the Brutor to Ouryon

KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 1069	Posted - 2014.06.17 23:18:00 - [11] - Quote A request at first for everybody: PLEASE stop calling heavies-in-LAVs as 'Murder taxis' or variations like 'Death taxis'. That name means exclusively bright yellow virtually indestructable logistic LAVs or LLAVs of early 2013. Which were used driving over people as a smallest 15kmph bump instakilled infantry. Urgh. THAT was terrible. Nowadays LAVs actually can be killed. The issue OP is talking about has had a name: Drive-by-heavies. The murder taxis are not back, thank grudd. :-S
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 2035	Posted - 2014.06.17 23:25:00 - [12] - Quote True Adamance wrote: But one broken relationship should not require another broken relationship to counter. Resolving that initial relationship is what should be of primary concern. I agree. However, if there are two broken mechanics that balance one another, you can't simply remove one and not the other as well without creating even greater imbalance. Godin Thekiller wrote: Well I don't think murder taxis are quite as broken as it's not hard to kill people that hops out of a vehicle. You see the vehicle coming, you can just get ready to take the person out as soon as he/she hops out. Also, While the person is fighting you, a HAV can easily **** up the LAV while is stopped, and then kill the heavy if you die. Really? Heavies don't need to get within 10 m to kill a 200 ehpish scout, which is what I run, to kill me in a fraction of a second. Even if I am able to shoot back, what light weapon exists that can counter the 5x ehp difference between suits? And now that the cloak duration has decreased, a scout like me that likes to traverse lots of ground to get behind enemy lines and hack CRUs and objectives, especially when the team is on the ropes, runs out of cloak quickly, and is an easy target for a lazy heavy that wants an easy cheap kill. Unless the person is also stupid enough to pull up immediately next to me, give me time to play ring around the LAV while allowing me to place an RE on the driver side, THEN take off before he kills me, I have NO COUNTER! This is how a minja feels
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 10719	Posted - 2014.06.17 23:30:00 - [13] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: True Adamance wrote: But one broken relationship should not require another broken relationship to counter. Resolving that initial relationship is what should be of primary concern. I agree. However, if there are two broken mechanics that balance one another, you can't simply remove one and not the other as well without creating even greater imbalance. I see your point but we shouldn't accept that one broken relationship should exist let alone two, and consider the second any more or less fair than the first. "You are weak Ouryon....weakness serves not the Empire. I shall teach you strength." -Yurius of the Brutor to Ouryon
Boot Booter Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 585	Posted - 2014.06.17 23:41:00 - [14] - Quote I love how everyone uses this opportunity to not actually discuss or debate the topic the OP presented. Just sad. Heavies in LAVs is an issue with very little counter for infantry. It's a cheap tactic which provides high reward with little risk (granted this varies by map). If you were to show this tactic to someone outside of dust they'd think that it was incredibly unfair due to the unrealistic vehicle enter/exit mechanic and the incredible 1v1 CQC ability of heavies. Saying "dude its a part of the game, therefore it's fine" is just plain stupid and doesn't justify the use. For example, in the days of the murder taxi we had literally invisible cars which could instantly kill infantry at nearly any speed. Was the response from the community HTFU it's a part of the game? No. It was ***** remove this piece of cheap ass ***** stupid tactic that sucks complete balls. As for a fix for "drive by heavies" in the current dust hot fix iteration I am honestly at a loss of what to do. I have always suggested enter and exit animations but now that's out. AV grenades nerf hit hard on preventing this tactic. Swarms are still useless. I have tried peer pressuring losers who do this but obviously that never works. If there was a way of instigating a small time delay (1 second perhaps) before you could fire, after exiting a vehicle, it might go a long way towards a solution. SMG Specialist
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 10721	Posted - 2014.06.17 23:46:00 - [15] - Quote Boot Booter wrote: I love how everyone uses this opportunity to not actually discuss or debate the topic the OP presented. Just sad. Heavies in LAVs is an issue with very little counter for infantry. It's a cheap tactic which provides high reward with little risk (granted this varies by map). If you were to show this tactic to someone outside of dust they'd think that it was incredibly unfair due to the unrealistic vehicle enter/exit mechanic and the incredible 1v1 CQC ability of heavies. Saying "dude its a part of the game, therefore it's fine" is just plain stupid and doesn't justify the use. For example, in the days of the murder taxi we had literally invisible cars which could instantly kill infantry at nearly any speed. Was the response from the community HTFU it's a part of the game? No. It was ***** remove this piece of cheap ass ***** stupid tactic that sucks complete balls. As for a fix for "drive by heavies" in the current dust hot fix iteration I am honestly at a loss of what to do. I have always suggested enter and exit animations but now that's out. AV grenades nerf hit hard on preventing this tactic. Swarms are still useless. I have tried peer pressuring losers who do this but obviously that never works. If there was a way of instigating a small time delay (1 second perhaps) before you could fire, after exiting a vehicle, it might go a long way towards a solution. Actually was going to try out being a drive by heavy last night in squad to see what the fuss was all about. Ended up becoming a Confederate Soldier instead.....its rough out there when all those cowards use automatic weapons and tanks..... "You are weak Ouryon....weakness serves not the Empire. I shall teach you strength." -Yurius of the Brutor to Ouryon
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 2038	Posted - 2014.06.17 23:47:00 - [16] - Quote True Adamance wrote: One Eyed King wrote: True Adamance wrote: But one broken relationship should not require another broken relationship to counter. Resolving that initial relationship is what should be of primary concern. I agree. However, if there are two broken mechanics that balance one another, you can't simply remove one and not the other as well without creating even greater imbalance. I see your point but we shouldn't accept that one broken relationship should exist let alone two, and consider the second any more or less fair than the first. I agree that we shouldn't accept them, but I find the Jihad Jeeps less often than the tank spam. I wouldn't say its truly fair, but I am not terribly upset when a small unfairness takes out a bigger unfairness. I think its a different story if used against infantry. This is how a minja feels
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 10723	Posted - 2014.06.17 23:56:00 - [17] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: True Adamance wrote: One Eyed King wrote: True Adamance wrote: But one broken relationship should not require another broken relationship to counter. Resolving that initial relationship is what should be of primary concern. I agree. However, if there are two broken mechanics that balance one another, you can't simply remove one and not the other as well without creating even greater imbalance. I see your point but we shouldn't accept that one broken relationship should exist let alone two, and consider the second any more or less fair than the first. I agree that we shouldn't accept them, but I find the Jihad Jeeps less often than the tank spam. I wouldn't say its truly fair, but I am not terribly upset when a small unfairness takes out a bigger unfairness. I think its a different story if used against infantry. Unfairness that no only affects infantry and Jihad Jeepists.....but also skilled tankers. When you are in an environment where ADS can skill stack, Jihads can OHKO you, and every jackass and their mother can invalidate millions of your SP through MLT modules you really see Jihad Jeeps for what they are. Tank Seeking Missiles that can be incredibly hard to destroy. I mean lets be honest...Jihading isn't hard, spent last night driving in circles armour a Gunlogi with no remotes on before driving head first into him to prove my point. But back on topic...... "You are weak Ouryon....weakness serves not the Empire. I shall teach you strength." -Yurius of the Brutor to Ouryon
Appia Vibbia Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2947	Posted - 2014.06.18 00:05:00 - [18] - Quote I'm surprised someone hasn't jumped in here yet defending his use of them "because it's the only way for a heavy to play solo" Appia Vibbia for CPM1 AppiaVibbia(at)gmail(dot)com AKA Nappia, AKA Mathppia
Joe Macro Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 12	Posted - 2014.06.18 00:07:00 - [19] - Quote Gotta chime in on this. I remember back when everyone had a BPO LAV. I learned quick to fit AV grenades. It worked on 90% of the murder taxi's or Drive by Heavies. Then they nerfed AV grenades. Its pretty simple really, standard AV grenades should destroy MLT LAV and put a good dent in MLT tanks. That way if you really want to be a murder taxier or Drive by Heavy, or pretend to be a tanker, then you need to skill into it. Jihad Jeeps are not in this category, because it is about RE's not the vehicle and not so much about the fit the person driving it is in. Im no pro at this game but I have seen enough to know how things work and I know the OP is not a typical QQ'er.
Joe Macro Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 12	Posted - 2014.06.18 00:09:00 - [20] - Quote Appia Vibbia wrote: I'm surprised someone hasn't jumped in here yet defending his use of them "because it's the only way for a heavy to play solo" Thanks, it is that. A lame heavy with no other game plan.

Michael Arck 4700	Posted - 2014.06.18 00:11:00 - [21] - Quote Really don't care. It's annoying, yes....when I roll solo. With a squad, I never had problem with heavies in a LAV. I don't think we should impact the way some people creatively find ways to kill. I like natural manifestations of tactics like that. Archistrategos *Where the fear has gone there will be nothing....only I will remain*
Godin Thekiller The Corporate Raiders 2623	Posted - 2014.06.18 00:11:00 - [22] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: Really? Heavies don't need to get within 10 m to kill a 200 ehpish scout, which is what I run, to kill me in a fraction of a second. Even if I am able to shoot back, what light weapon exists that can counter the 5x ehp difference between suits? And now that the cloak duration has decreased, a scout like me that likes to traverse lots of ground to get behind enemy lines and hack CRUs and objectives, especially when the team is on the ropes, runs out of cloak quickly, and is an easy target for a lazy heavy that wants an easy cheap kill. Unless the person is also stupid enough to pull up immediately next to me, give me time to play ring around the LAV while allowing me to place an RE on the driver side, THEN take off before he kills me, I have NO COUNTER! True Adamance wrote: One Eyed King wrote: True Adamance wrote: But one broken relationship should not require another broken relationship to counter. Resolving that initial relationship is what should be of primary concern. I agree. However, if there are two broken mechanics that balance one another, you can't simply remove one and not the other as well without creating even greater imbalance. I see your point but we shouldn't accept that one broken relationship should exist let alone two, and consider the second any more or less fair than the first. My logic behind making that post. click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Bojo The Mighty Spaceman Drug Cartel-Uno 3850	Posted - 2014.06.18 00:18:00 - [23] - Quote The Murder taxi is a ridiculous tactic and sometimes it's overbearing but I am a true-LAV user and the last thing it needs is Murder taxis ruining it for everyone. It's a hard tactic to counter you've pointed that out but I have a solid RE counter strategy that rarely fails but it does require RE's. Again at the heart the Murder Taxi is only as effective as the HMG and the heavy. It's true that LAV removes the mobility loss from the equation which seems unfair but hell I don't want people to pin the crime on the LAV. It's not the LAV's fault that it can be used by anyone and everyone. Certain villains paint it ugly which is the true crime here. The criminal is purely the Heavy-HMG- LAV relationship not the Heavy-Pistol-LAV, not the Heavy Anything Else LAV. Heavies and HMG's are also a common issue on the ground in terms of balance. The Murder Taxi is just a volunteer from the same root. I'm not resting in peace but rather wandering as a zombie in vengeance of no good reason
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2407	Posted - 2014.06.18 00:20:00 - [24] - Quote I'm not proposing this as a "magic bullet" solution. Indeed I'm confident other tweaks would be called for but part of the solution should be the much needed look at Proxies. They're not useless in their current state but they are deeply underwhelming and in need of some love. Even in their current beleaguered state they can be effective at countering this LAV o' death tactic. Thoughts on types and degrees of buff to the Proxy, as well as what else might be called for to create something of a resolution? (Also a side note, while I'm not a big fan of the death-mobile I don't think that someone who's proto'ed out LAVs should lose the ability to use them for hit and run tactics, because there's very little else for a LAV to do and we don't want to completely remove their role. More level based scaling of LAV durability and cost?) 0.02 ISK Cross Cross Atu for CPM1- An emergent candidate
Bojo The Mighty Spaceman Drug Cartel-Uno 3850	Posted - 2014.06.18 00:25:00 - [25] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: I'm not proposing this as a "magic bullet" solution. Indeed I'm confident other tweaks would be called for but part of the solution should be the much needed look at Proxies. They're not useless in their current state but they are deeply underwhelming and in need of some love. Even in their current beleaguered state they can be effective at countering this LAV o' death tactic. Thoughts on types and degrees of buff to the Proxy, as well as what else might be called for to create something of a resolution? (Also a side note, while I'm not a big fan of the death-mobile I don't think that someone who's proto'ed out LAVs should lose the ability to use them for hit and run tactics, because there's very little else for a LAV to do and we don't want to completely remove their role. More level based scaling of LAV durability and cost?) 0.02 ISK Cross Proxies actually in quantity are a solid counter because most LAVs drive too fast to acknowledge the tell-tale beep If proxies must be buffed buff quantity carried and deployed. In my opinion buffing damage over quantity will lead to harder detection thus they are even more potent. I just use RE's though because currently like you said a little underwhelming and it never seems like a whole field of them will detonate only some....so maybe a blast radius buff too? I'm not resting in peace but rather wandering as a zombie in vengeance of no good reason
Appia Vibbia Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2947	Posted - 2014.06.18 00:25:00 - [26] - Quote The only time Proximity Mines are useful is when Friendly Fire is on. They need that stupid beeping removed at the very least. Appia Vibbia for CPM1 AppiaVibbia(at)gmail(dot)com AKA Nappia, AKA Mathppia
Bojo The Mighty Spaceman Drug Cartel-Uno 3850	Posted - 2014.06.18 00:34:00 - [27] - Quote Appia Vibbia wrote: The only time Proximity Mines are useful is when Friendly Fire is on. They need that stupid beeping removed at the very least. To be fair it needs to be there because I know where I place mine and where I place mine you will never see them to begin with I'm not resting in peace but rather wandering as a zombie in vengeance of no good reason
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 1070	Posted - 2014.06.18 00:53:00 - [28] - Quote On the topic: The basic idea of Drive-by-heavies ARE part of the game BUT there lies a problem with instant embark-disembarking mechanic. The fact that with a single click it's possible to teleport away from threat makes it a bit broken. I say a bit because the issue is not that big; Drive-by-heavying works in ambushes and in limited areas of the map. So it DOES have limitations. It's not universal tactic therefore it's not one of those totally OP things of the past. At the moment the drive-by-heavying is not at it's strongest as AV nades just got buffed and there are no invu-mode LLAVs. That being said, at one time playing on one of my chars which had no way whatsoever to deal certain rhyming-with-fish dust player's habit I had one of my biggest frustrations... :-S
Killar-12 The Exemplars Top Men. 2864	Posted - 2014.06.18 02:48:00 - [29] - Quote Appia Vibbia wrote: I'm surprised someone hasn't jumped in here yet defending his use of them "because it's the only way for a heavy to play solo" Because it isn't and only an Idiot would say so... Number 1 Consumer of Warp Core Stabilizers in EVE Online Orbital Pilot (FW and PC) if you're interested just mail me
Mauren NOON The Exemplars Top Men. 323	Posted - 2014.06.18 02:56:00 - [30] - Quote I think scouts with REs are a broken tactic. But no one fix's that..oh...you run 10 meters a second and have an equipment that can insta kill anyone? Why even carry weapons. Just carry hives and continue chucking them like frisbees Scr and commando enthusiast. A commando is not just a suit, but a way of life... "The only thing to fear is fear itself"

Bojo The Mighty Spaceman Drug Cartel-Uno 3856	Posted - 2014.06.18 04:49:00 - [31] - Quote Mauren NOON wrote: I think scouts with REs are a broken tactic. But no one fix's that..oh...you run 10 meters a second and have an equipment that can insta kill anyone? Why even carry weapons. Just carry hives and continue chucking them like frisbees What is your point commandos can throw death frisbees too nothing special bout that I'm not resting in peace but rather wandering as a zombie in vengeance of no good reason
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 14602	Posted - 2014.06.18 05:56:00 - [32] - Quote Mauren NOON wrote: I think scouts with REs are a broken tactic. But no one fix's that..oh...you run 10 meters a second and have an equipment that can insta kill anyone? Why even carry weapons. Just carry hives and continue chucking them like frisbees Guess what? They're being nerfed. Now there is no excuse for even a heavy to not get well out of the way of the blast zone before they're primed. Frisbee REs are no longer a thing. I'm rather disappointed at the number of people in here who haven't even tried to present an argument for drive-by heavies, they've just gone 'no but THIS is OP!!11!' referring to a completely different thing. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 14604	Posted - 2014.06.18 06:09:00 - [33] - Quote Joe Macro wrote: Gotta chime in on this. I remember back when everyone had a BPO LAV. I learned quick to fit AV grenades. It worked on 90% of the murder taxi's or Drive by Heavies. Then they nerfed AV grenades. Its pretty simple really, standard AV grenades should destroy MLT LAV and put a good dent in MLT tanks. That way if you really want to be a murder taxier or Drive by Heavy, or pretend to be a tanker, then you need to skill into it. Jihad Jeeps are not in this category, because it is about RE's not the vehicle and not so much about the fit the person driving it is in. Im no pro at this game but I have seen enough to know how things work and I know the OP is not a typical QQ'er. Unfortunately, since the base HP of all LAVs was buffed in 1.7 and the number of AV grenades you can carry was reduced in 1.8, that's no longer a viable way of dealing with them. Two Lai Dai packed AV grenades (which is all you can carry, and are the most powerful AV grenade option available) will not kill an LAV with any tank modules added at all. They won't 1 hit any LAVs - which prevents them from being that effective, because to land a hit with an AV grenade the LAV is going to be within the HMG's optimal. Perhaps if you're using Lai Dai packeds you'll be able to kill the LAV if it's an Onikuma, but it won't save you. If you're not using the proto packed grenades, then most LAVs are unkillable. The sleek grenades won't even kill the weakest LAV at the proto tier, they can be discounted. Wiyrkomis won't kill a Baloch either. At EX-0 and below, you won't be able to even kill an Onikuma. Of the very few things you can do against these, AV grenades are one of the best picks. Unfortunately, to use them means that you'll be in the firing line immediately as the heavy bails, if you're using some powerful enough to take out the LAV. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
Baal Omniscient Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 1721	Posted - 2014.06.18 10:16:00 - [34] - Quote I suggest taking LAV health down and allowing skill sinks to buff them back up. Right now 2 Lai Dai packed's can't kill an Onikuma if he's fitted it with militia mods. 2 basic packed AV grenades should kill an unspecced, unfitted Militia LAV. Any skilled and fitted militia LAV should die to 2 packed EXO's. And any fully fitted, fully specced & fitted basic LAV should die to 2 packed Lai Dai grenades. This would allow tankers to defend against jihad jeeps easier, would give people a defense against Fat Taxi's (what I call them), and would force people who use this tactic to have to spend SP and a decent amount of ISK to make it viable. Right now I could fit an all BPO LAV and throw a basic HMG on an all BPO Skinweave heavy suit for right around 30k a pop. On a side note, the AV biff should coincide with this change. PSN ID: AlbelNox2569 Cross Atu for CPM1
iKILLu osborne Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 9	Posted - 2014.06.18 10:40:00 - [35] - Quote Mauren NOON wrote: I think scouts with REs are a broken tactic. But no one fix's that..oh...you run 10 meters a second and have an equipment that can insta kill anyone? Why even carry weapons. Just carry hives and continue chucking them like frisbees lol you know i use this tactic i can honestly say it separates dumb players from smart ones if you pay attention you can hear equipment drop (including remotes) so learn the sound and when hacking listen for it. and fyi throwing them like frisbees is a huge exaggeration , when i full sprint jump then toss them, they go about 7 to 10m then the sec it takes for me too land and then the 1.5s animation of me detonating gives you almost 3s to move so if you hear the sound move duh, and before you say heavies can't move in time (i run a heavy also) you do two hops back like jumping away from a grenade hey you liar! i didn't sneak up on you, i was following you for 5 minutes , waiting for you to hack that cru for a camp
Velociraptor antirrhopus Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 261	Posted - 2014.06.18 10:42:00 - [36] - Quote Remember the good old days? When heavies with LAVs were the ones rage killing Snipers? Now it's tanks and Caldari scouts... My thoughts on Hotfix Alpha: First I noticed a scout running from my AR. Then a heavy. Then a COMBAT RIFLE USER. CCP +1
iKILLu osborne Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 9	Posted - 2014.06.18 10:46:00 - [37] - Quote simple make it 10 secs to re-enter a vehicle after exiting thusly making them vunerable if just for a brief moment that way it don't destroy the tactic completely but makes it more fair(and to prevent them from running from my viziam after they realize they picked on the wrong scout) hey you liar! i didn't sneak up on you, i was following you for 5 minutes , waiting for you to hack that cru for a camp
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 363	Posted - 2014.06.18 11:25:00 - [38] - Quote Joe Macro wrote: Gotta chime in on this. I remember back when everyone had a BPO LAV. I learned quick to fit AV grenades. It worked on 90% of the murder taxi's or Drive by Heavies. Then they nerfed AV grenades. Its pretty simple really, standard AV grenades should destroy MLT LAV and put a good dent in MLT tanks. That way if you really want to be a murder taxier or Drive by Heavy, or pretend to be a tanker, then you need to skill into it. Jihad Jeeps are not in this category, because it is about RE's not the vehicle and not so much about the fit the person driving it is in. Im no pro at this game but I have seen enough to know how things work and I know the OP is not a typical QQ'er. yea but that lead to the av nade spam plague tanks. everyone on the map had av nades to counter the lavs. problem was that also meant everyone was able to counter tanks en mass. nanohives made it worse as they replenished your nades faster than you could throw them. combined with the logistics lav most tanks couldnt stay on field since an lav with swarms, av nades or even a forge gun could roll up to you before you could kill the lav. imagine how crap this game would be if the murder taxis returned in our new age of jihad jeeps. id ask ccp to simply paint a troll face on it and call it a day.
Baal Omniscient Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 1723	Posted - 2014.06.18 11:46:00 - [39] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: Joe Macro wrote: Gotta chime in on this. I remember back when everyone had a BPO LAV. I learned quick to fit AV grenades. It worked on 90% of the murder taxi's or Drive by Heavies. Then they nerfed AV grenades. Its pretty simple really, standard AV grenades should destroy MLT LAV and put a good dent in MLT tanks. That way if you really want to be a murder taxier or Drive by Heavy, or pretend to be a tanker, then you need to skill into it. Jihad Jeeps are not in this category, because it is about RE's not the vehicle and not so much about the fit the person driving it is in. Im no pro at this game but I have seen enough to know how things work and I know the OP is not a typical QQ'er. yea but that lead to the av nade spam plague tanks. everyone on the map had av nades to counter the lavs. problem was that also meant everyone was able to counter tanks en mass. nanohives made it worse as they replenished your nades faster than you could throw them. combined with the logistics lav most tanks couldnt stay on field since an lav with swarms, av nades or even a forge gun could roll up to you before you could kill the lav. imagine how crap this game would be if the murder taxis returned in our new age of jihad jeeps. id ask ccp to simply paint a troll face on it and call it a day. Currently the resupply rate for grenades is greatly reduced when compared to when you are referring to and you only have 2 (as opposed to the previous 3) to begin with, not to mention grenades DRAIN hives. I use the hell out of locust grenades, and my X-3 hives only yield 4 grenades before disappearing due to grenade's increased nanite cost compared to before. In addition, hive fitting costs have been greatly increased so fitting a better hive for more grenades means wearing a much weaker suit than before. Lastly, tanks are FAR faster than they used to be and are typically stacking reps and/or hardners which work far better than they used to. TL;DR: The issue you refer to shouldn't be an issue these days. PSN ID: AlbelNox2569 Cross Atu for CPM1
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 79	Posted - 2014.06.18 12:07:00 - [40] - Quote after reading all the nerf heavy and nerf HMG comming from scouts and non heavy users it makes sence to use death taxi's cause at range heavys are at a severe disadvantage. with the plasma cannon changes and such it shouldnt be hard to keep popping death taxi's Minmatar Logibro in training. Rusty needles anyone? No Mic and no time for "Squeekers" Nerf scout cloak+shotgun

Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 14610	Posted - 2014.06.18 12:45:00 - [41] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: after reading all the nerf heavy and nerf HMG comming from scouts and non heavy users it makes sence to use death taxi's cause at range heavys are at a severe disadvantage. with the plasma cannon changes and such it shouldnt be hard to keep popping death taxi's Did... Did you seriously just suggest using a plasma cannon? Have you ever used a plasma cannon? You can't kill an LAV before it reaches you by using a plasma cannon. Also, it doesn't 'make sense' because people are complaining about heavies being overpowered. It makes sense because it renders the weaknesses of the class irrelevant. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
Baal Omniscient Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 1725	Posted - 2014.06.18 12:48:00 - [42] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Apothecary Za'ki wrote: after reading all the nerf heavy and nerf HMG comming from scouts and non heavy users it makes sence to use death taxi's cause at range heavys are at a severe disadvantage. with the plasma cannon changes and such it shouldnt be hard to keep popping death taxi's Did... Did you seriously just suggest using a plasma cannon? Have you ever used a plasma cannon? You can't kill an LAV before it reaches you by using a plasma cannon. Also, it doesn't 'make sense' because people are complaining about heavies being overpowered. It makes sense because it renders the weaknesses of the class irrelevant. I was just gonna quote and put "lolololololol", but I suppose a reasoned argument is better for the soul.... PSN ID: AlbelNox2569 Cross Atu for CPM1
Tebu Gan Dem Durrty Boyz General Tso's Alliance 1009	Posted - 2014.06.18 13:17:00 - [43] - Quote Bojo The Mighty wrote: The Murder taxi is a ridiculous tactic and sometimes it's overbearing but I am a true-LAV user and the last thing it needs is Murder taxis ruining it for everyone. It's a hard tactic to counter you've pointed that out but I have a solid RE counter strategy that rarely fails but it does require RE's. Again at the heart the Murder Taxi is only as effective as the HMG and the heavy. It's true that LAV removes the mobility loss from the equation which seems unfair but hell I don't want people to pin the crime on the LAV. It's not the LAV's fault that it can be used by anyone and everyone. Certain villains paint it ugly which is the true crime here. The criminal is purely the Heavy-HMG- LAV relationship not the Heavy-Pistol-LAV, not the Heavy Anything Else LAV. Heavies and HMG's are also a common issue on the ground in terms of balance. The Murder Taxi is just a volunteer from the same root. I'm in the same boat as this guy. I don't see the LAV as the problem. It's a tool just like any other, there if you are willing to gamble the ISK. I predominately use mine to hunt other tanks, and have tried this tactic you described to much success and a few failures thrown in. Hell I'll even slide that thing sideways and use it as cover. That HMG is deadly, most other heavies setup differently wouldn't be as annoying. But throw an HMG on there with an LAV and you can murder some bluedots. But even with that said, it's not 100% fool proof, and generally works best on someone running around by themselves! And I disagree with the notion that AV nades are useless against LAV's. I've been using them on my forge setup at STD level of all things, and generally use those to kill LAV. Unfit LAV's crumble to 2 packed STD AV nades. No, you won't kill an LAV that has a half decent fit, with just 2 nades, but I know for a fact that you will severely damage that thing, leaving it open for others to finish the job. My favorite though as been watching LAV's zoom up to me, single forge shot to em, get them weak and angry like a charging bull. I've had several LAV's that would have turned me into roadkill, but drop a single AV nade after a forge shot and boom, dead LAV. Then I calmly jump back in my LAV as the burning wreckage flies past. Tanks - Balancing Turrets
Atiim NoGameNoLife 9570	Posted - 2014.06.18 13:33:00 - [44] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Then by that logic is it fair to say Jihad Jeeps are a broken tactic.....which they are. No, and they don't correlate. Unlike the 'Death Taxi' the 'Jihad Jeep' can easily be countered by a shot to the front by literally every weapon in the game, and can be killed near instantaneously by a 20/80GJ Blaster. Unlike the 'Death Taxi', the Jihad jeep requires you to terminate at least 1 clone, which while it may seem insignificant, it is crucuial in competitive matches and is usually the deciding factor in whether or not you win the match (assuming your using a Clone Pack, of course). It should also be noted that (after sampling 15 heavies for 24 matches, over a span of 3 days); the success rate of the 'Death Taxi' rests at about 94%, and that 6% is only because of the Large CA Railgun Installation AI killing them before they reached their target. Director of NoGameNoLife "The Snack That Smiles Back; Amarr Suits" -HAND


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