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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
1946
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Posted - 2014.06.17 04:13:00 -
[1] - Quote
That everyone's Max Rotation Speeds are exactly the same (heavy or light, plates or no plates).
I wouldn't pop the champagne until he weighs in on this point; I'm beginning to think its a bug.
But while we're on the point, do you guys think that the arse of an 1800HP Gal Sentinel should be his "soft spot" or "weak point"? Or do you think he should be able respond to threats from behind as readily as anyone else?
You guys already know what I think ... what do you think?
Shoot scout with yes...
- Ripley Riley
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Vitharr Foebane
Terminal Courtesy
1423
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Posted - 2014.06.17 04:18:00 -
[2] - Quote
We've been telling you what we think YOU just couldn't hear us over your wailing
CCP Rattati wrote:I like the deadliness of a heavy hmg as it is right now. If we were to reduce its efficiency in a future hotfix, it would most likely be to heat since that rewards skill and not spray and pray.
Improving the assault is then my preferred counter to heavies, not nerfing heavies, most likely through racial tanking improvements, pure damage output and regen. Just my general thoughts on the subject.
Amarr: Sentinel V Scout V Assault IV Commando IV Logistics IV
I place my faith in my God, my Empress, and my Laz0r
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CCP Rattati
C C P
C C P Alliance
2687
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Posted - 2014.06.17 04:20:00 -
[3] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:That everyone's Max Rotation Speeds are exactly the same (heavy or light, plates or no plates).
I wouldn't pop the champagne until he weighs in on this point; I'm beginning to think its a bug.
But while we're on the point, do you guys think that the arse of an 1800HP Gal Sentinel should be his "soft spot" or "weak point"? Or do you think he should be able respond to threats from behind as readily as anyone else?
You guys already know what I think ... what do you think?
We know and it sucked to be a heavy when turning speed was lower, I don't remember when that was.
I might be coerced into saying maybe turning speed could be affected by plates.
"As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"
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Vitharr Foebane
Terminal Courtesy
1424
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Posted - 2014.06.17 04:21:00 -
[4] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:That everyone's Max Rotation Speeds are exactly the same (heavy or light, plates or no plates).
I wouldn't pop the champagne until he weighs in on this point; I'm beginning to think its a bug.
But while we're on the point, do you guys think that the arse of an 1800HP Gal Sentinel should be his "soft spot" or "weak point"? Or do you think he should be able respond to threats from behind as readily as anyone else?
You guys already know what I think ... what do you think? We know and it sucked to be a heavy when turning speed was lower, I don't remember when that was. I might be coerced into saying maybe turning speed could be affected by plates.
I was under the Impression that they did.
Amarr: Sentinel V Scout V Assault IV Commando IV Logistics IV
I place my faith in my God, my Empress, and my Laz0r
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
1946
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Posted - 2014.06.17 04:22:00 -
[5] - Quote
Vitharr Foebane wrote:
I was under the Impression that they did.
They don't. We tested it again today. I wasn't lying to you, Vitharr.
Shoot scout with yes...
- Ripley Riley
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Vitharr Foebane
Terminal Courtesy
1424
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Posted - 2014.06.17 04:25:00 -
[6] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Vitharr Foebane wrote:
I was under the Impression that they did.
They don't. We tested it again today. I wasn't lying to you, Vitharr.
Then I will admit defeat on the ONE point they SHOULD affect turning as that is considered movement.
My other points stand though...
Amarr: Sentinel V Scout V Assault IV Commando IV Logistics IV
I place my faith in my God, my Empress, and my Laz0r
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XxWarlordxX97
BurgezzE.T.F
4323
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Posted - 2014.06.17 04:26:00 -
[7] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:That everyone's Max Rotation Speeds are exactly the same (heavy or light, plates or no plates).
I wouldn't pop the champagne until he weighs in on this point; I'm beginning to think its a bug.
But while we're on the point, do you guys think that the arse of an 1800HP Gal Sentinel should be his "soft spot" or "weak point"? Or do you think he should be able respond to threats from behind as readily as anyone else?
You guys already know what I think ... what do you think? We know and it sucked to be a heavy when turning speed was lower, I don't remember when that was. I might be coerced into saying maybe turning speed could be affected by plates.
But if this happens then it goes to the Scouts
I'm a Elite heavy
"I don't rage.I get even"
Please donate isk if you want me to pub stomp you
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
10694
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Posted - 2014.06.17 04:28:00 -
[8] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:That everyone's Max Rotation Speeds are exactly the same (heavy or light, plates or no plates).
I wouldn't pop the champagne until he weighs in on this point; I'm beginning to think its a bug.
But while we're on the point, do you guys think that the arse of an 1800HP Gal Sentinel should be his "soft spot" or "weak point"? Or do you think he should be able respond to threats from behind as readily as anyone else?
You guys already know what I think ... what do you think? We know and it sucked to be a heavy when turning speed was lower, I don't remember when that was. I might be coerced into saying maybe turning speed could be affected by plates.
If that's the case then it will affect more than just Sentinel suits and Shield modules would equally require a penalty.
Perhaps if you applied a universal turning speed penalty there could be a complimentary armour skill/ SP sink to alleviate that penalty somewhat.
E.G- If turning speed penalty was 5% per plate stacked, perhaps the skill would
Reduce the Penalty of Armour Plate weight penalties by 10% per level.
Reducing the penalty per plate to 2.5% per plate at LvL 5.
"You are weak Ouryon....weakness serves not the Empire. I shall teach you strength."
-Yurius of the Brutor to Ouryon
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
1948
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Posted - 2014.06.17 04:47:00 -
[9] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:
1. We know and it sucked to be a heavy when turning speed was lower, I don't remember when that was.
2. I might be coerced into saying maybe turning speed could be affected by plates.
1. Roger that. The Rotation Speed Cap was lifted in Uprising 1.4. We'd theorized that restoring it may adversely impact Commandos as well (not good); they'll be glad to hear you won't be changing it.
2. Good to know that it is technically possible (plates penalizing rotation speed). I will say that the uparmored Gallente Sentinel has proven quite good at resisting assassination attempts from behind involving Shotguns or Nova Knives. Perhaps too good, but that's not my call to make.
Thanks again. o7
Shoot scout with yes...
- Ripley Riley
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DeathwindRising
ROGUE RELICS
359
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Posted - 2014.06.17 04:59:00 -
[10] - Quote
XxWarlordxX97 wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:That everyone's Max Rotation Speeds are exactly the same (heavy or light, plates or no plates).
I wouldn't pop the champagne until he weighs in on this point; I'm beginning to think its a bug.
But while we're on the point, do you guys think that the arse of an 1800HP Gal Sentinel should be his "soft spot" or "weak point"? Or do you think he should be able respond to threats from behind as readily as anyone else?
You guys already know what I think ... what do you think? We know and it sucked to be a heavy when turning speed was lower, I don't remember when that was. I might be coerced into saying maybe turning speed could be affected by plates. But if this happens then it goes to the Scouts
yes... yes it would  |
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Bojo The Mighty
Spaceman Drug Cartel-Uno
3840
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Posted - 2014.06.17 05:01:00 -
[11] - Quote
DeathwindRising wrote:XxWarlordxX97 wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:That everyone's Max Rotation Speeds are exactly the same (heavy or light, plates or no plates).
I wouldn't pop the champagne until he weighs in on this point; I'm beginning to think its a bug.
But while we're on the point, do you guys think that the arse of an 1800HP Gal Sentinel should be his "soft spot" or "weak point"? Or do you think he should be able respond to threats from behind as readily as anyone else?
You guys already know what I think ... what do you think? We know and it sucked to be a heavy when turning speed was lower, I don't remember when that was. I might be coerced into saying maybe turning speed could be affected by plates. But if this happens then it goes to the Scouts yes... yes it would
LOL such a threat
I'm not resting in peace but rather wandering as a zombie in vengeance of no good reason
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Vicious Minotaur
Tronhadar Free Guard
Minmatar Republic
900
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Posted - 2014.06.17 05:08:00 -
[12] - Quote
Base rotation should be the same for all frame sizes, and modules (armour, maybe others?) should negatively impact rotation speed.
---signed: a chromosome heavy vet (who also happens to be a Minotaur)
I am a minotaur.
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The Eristic
Dust 90210
479
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Posted - 2014.06.17 05:09:00 -
[13] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:I might be coerced into saying maybe turning speed could be affected by plates.
Nice solution to both fatspins and bricked scouts, but might bone Assaults (even more). Thinking percentage or flat?
Reality is the original Rorschach.
Verily! So much for all that.
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Vitharr Foebane
Terminal Courtesy
1426
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Posted - 2014.06.17 05:18:00 -
[14] - Quote
The Eristic wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:I might be coerced into saying maybe turning speed could be affected by plates. Nice solution to both fatspins and bricked scouts, but might bone Assaults (even more). Thinking percentage or flat?
All turn speeds are the same so it wouldnt matter. Also my Amarr assault would love the turn speed reduction as it would help keep my LR on target
Amarr: Sentinel V Scout V Assault IV Commando IV Logistics IV
I place my faith in my God, my Empress, and my Laz0r
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
1948
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Posted - 2014.06.17 05:23:00 -
[15] - Quote
Vitharr Foebane wrote:The Eristic wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:I might be coerced into saying maybe turning speed could be affected by plates. Nice solution to both fatspins and bricked scouts, but might bone Assaults (even more). Thinking percentage or flat? All turn speeds are the same so it wouldnt matter. Also my Amarr assault would love the turn speed reduction as it would help keep my LR on target
While "max turn speeds" are the same, individual turn speeds are defined by X/Y sensitivity. You can reduce yours anytime using in-game Options.
Shoot scout with yes...
- Ripley Riley
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Vitharr Foebane
Terminal Courtesy
1426
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Posted - 2014.06.17 05:27:00 -
[16] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Vitharr Foebane wrote:The Eristic wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:I might be coerced into saying maybe turning speed could be affected by plates. Nice solution to both fatspins and bricked scouts, but might bone Assaults (even more). Thinking percentage or flat? All turn speeds are the same so it wouldnt matter. Also my Amarr assault would love the turn speed reduction as it would help keep my LR on target FYI: You could reduce it yourself using in-game sensitivity settings.
I've tried and the amount you need to tone it down screws every other fit. Like i said I'm an Amarr omni soldier it is very rare that I use one suit for a whole game. I love all my suits, even the scout suit with its useless racial xD
Amarr: Sentinel V Scout V Assault IV Commando IV Logistics IV
I place my faith in my God, my Empress, and my Laz0r
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Sgt Kirk
Fatal Absolution
6060
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Posted - 2014.06.17 05:35:00 -
[17] - Quote
As Rattai said the HMG only needs more heat buildup to reduce that spray and pray crap for scrubs.
I also think that along with that it needs a slight spool up time but that would only come if the heatbuild up didnt work as well as we would wish.
If my assault could just do more damage then Assaults would have a better time in general.
Also I think it stupid for the Gallente Light to have 3 hp/s and mediums 2hp/s. It should be the other way around.
A moment of silence is not enough. For their crimes, we must make the Caldari silence permanent.
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Right-wing Extremist
Nos Nothi
148
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Posted - 2014.06.17 05:40:00 -
[18] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:That everyone's Max Rotation Speeds are exactly the same (heavy or light, plates or no plates).
I wouldn't pop the champagne until he weighs in on this point; I'm beginning to think its a bug.
But while we're on the point, do you guys think that the arse of an 1800HP Gal Sentinel should be his "soft spot" or "weak point"? Or do you think he should be able respond to threats from behind as readily as anyone else?
You guys already know what I think ... what do you think? We know and it sucked to be a heavy when turning speed was lower, I don't remember when that was. I might be coerced into saying maybe turning speed could be affected by plates.
For everybody! YES!
For immersion's sake, okay. So evvery class of suit has the same base rotation speed, because even on heavier suits the servomotors located in the suit's legs' joints are designed to handle the load of that suit. But then you start stacking hundreds of kilograms more of armor on top of the standard weight. Those servomotors start to strain under the load.
Makes sense.
And the servomotors on scout suits are quite light...
Jaceon Pale-eye.
Soon to be the deadliest prick in OSG.
Unless Mal says no :(
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Garth Mandra
The Southern Legion
Final Resolution.
408
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Posted - 2014.06.17 06:06:00 -
[19] - Quote
One of the problems with messing with turning speed is that it affects aiming. At least I think it probably does.
If I'm correct then It'd be really annoying to switch from a heavy frame to a light frame and have to relearn how to aim.
If you could decouple aiming from turning then it could work but that sounds difficult. |
Vitharr Foebane
Terminal Courtesy
1429
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Posted - 2014.06.17 06:15:00 -
[20] - Quote
Garth Mandra wrote:One of the problems with messing with turning speed is that it affects aiming. At least I think it probably does.
If I'm correct then It'd be really annoying to switch from a heavy frame to a light frame and have to relearn how to aim.
If you could decouple aiming from turning then it could work but that sounds difficult.
Id be fine then as a pure Amarr merc then as almost all my suits rock plates xD
Amarr: Sentinel V Scout V Assault IV Commando IV Logistics IV
I place my faith in my God, my Empress, and my Laz0r
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Fatal Absolution
14580
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Posted - 2014.06.17 06:17:00 -
[21] - Quote
Vitharr Foebane wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Vitharr Foebane wrote:
I was under the Impression that they did.
They don't. We tested it again today. I wasn't lying to you, Vitharr. Then I will admit defeat on the ONE point they SHOULD affect turning as that is considered movement. My other points stand though...
A little surprised you didn't wail "but i tested it!11!" like you did in the other thread.
You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
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Aeon Amadi
Edimmu Warfighters
Gallente Federation
6078
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Posted - 2014.06.17 06:20:00 -
[22] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:That everyone's Max Rotation Speeds are exactly the same (heavy or light, plates or no plates).
I wouldn't pop the champagne until he weighs in on this point; I'm beginning to think its a bug.
But while we're on the point, do you guys think that the arse of an 1800HP Gal Sentinel should be his "soft spot" or "weak point"? Or do you think he should be able respond to threats from behind as readily as anyone else?
You guys already know what I think ... what do you think? We know and it sucked to be a heavy when turning speed was lower, I don't remember when that was. I might be coerced into saying maybe turning speed could be affected by plates.
Maybe. Might set off a power imbalance among the racial heavies though. Gotta be kinda careful about that.
Useful Links
Aeon Amadi for CPM1
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Dj grammer
Red Star.
EoN.
258
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Posted - 2014.06.17 06:22:00 -
[23] - Quote
Sgt Kirk wrote:As Rattai said the HMG only needs more heat buildup to reduce that spray and pray crap for scrubs.
I also think that along with that it needs a slight spool up time but that would only come if the heatbuild up didnt work as well as we would wish.
If my assault could just do more damage then Assaults would have a better time in general.
Also I think it stupid for the Gallente Light to have 3 hp/s and mediums 2hp/s. It should be the other way around.
Good point I noticed this today
Gallente Heavy 1hp/s (why?)
Gallente Medium 2 hp/s (decent)
Gallente Light 3hp/s (again why? this should have went to the heavy class or the medium class)
why ccp?
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deezy dabest
Sacred Initiative of Combat Killers
608
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Posted - 2014.06.17 06:38:00 -
[24] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:That everyone's Max Rotation Speeds are exactly the same (heavy or light, plates or no plates).
I wouldn't pop the champagne until he weighs in on this point; I'm beginning to think its a bug.
But while we're on the point, do you guys think that the arse of an 1800HP Gal Sentinel should be his "soft spot" or "weak point"? Or do you think he should be able respond to threats from behind as readily as anyone else?
You guys already know what I think ... what do you think? We know and it sucked to be a heavy when turning speed was lower, I don't remember when that was. I might be coerced into saying maybe turning speed could be affected by plates.
I would be impartial to turn speed being affected by movement penalties as it would have some goods and bads but it would suck even worse to be a heavy with the old restriction and the amount of scouts out there now. Drastically messing with the turn speed would probably be the one thing to make sure everyone went to tanked assaults/logis over a heavy.
Laser focused in a room full of mirrors. Everything you ever wanted coming SoonGäó just keep buying boosters.
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Vitharr Foebane
Terminal Courtesy
1429
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Posted - 2014.06.17 06:41:00 -
[25] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Vitharr Foebane wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Vitharr Foebane wrote:
I was under the Impression that they did.
They don't. We tested it again today. I wasn't lying to you, Vitharr. Then I will admit defeat on the ONE point they SHOULD affect turning as that is considered movement. My other points stand though... A little surprised you didn't wail "but i tested it!11!" like you did in the other thread.
Human mind is quite capable giving a false positive hence why placebos are a thing but i dont have the ability to record and playback on a frame by frame basis(which I hope you did =.=) and unlike others i'm man enough to admit MY mistakes
Amarr: Sentinel V Scout V Assault IV Commando IV Logistics IV
I place my faith in my God, my Empress, and my Laz0r
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The-Errorist
SVER True Blood
769
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Posted - 2014.06.17 08:05:00 -
[26] - Quote
If the penalty was very small and only barely noticeable when stacking more than 2 regular plates, I would be ok with it. Also to those saying that shields should get a penalty, they already have two: High PG/CPU costs and depleted shield recharge delays.
MAG + Dust cb vet, an alt of Velvet Overkill & Agent Overkill. http://vimeo.com/93181621
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duster 35000
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
44
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Posted - 2014.06.17 10:46:00 -
[27] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:That everyone's Max Rotation Speeds are exactly the same (heavy or light, plates or no plates).
I wouldn't pop the champagne until he weighs in on this point; I'm beginning to think its a bug.
But while we're on the point, do you guys think that the arse of an 1800HP Gal Sentinel should be his "soft spot" or "weak point"? Or do you think he should be able respond to threats from behind as readily as anyone else?
You guys already know what I think ... what do you think? We know and it sucked to be a heavy when turning speed was lower, I don't remember when that was. I might be coerced into saying maybe turning speed could be affected by plates.
Use a minmatar scout with a smg, the turn speed is increased...
Choo Choo
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voidfaction
Void of Faction
270
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Posted - 2014.06.17 10:53:00 -
[28] - Quote
Dj grammer wrote:Sgt Kirk wrote:As Rattai said the HMG only needs more heat buildup to reduce that spray and pray crap for scrubs.
I also think that along with that it needs a slight spool up time but that would only come if the heatbuild up didnt work as well as we would wish.
If my assault could just do more damage then Assaults would have a better time in general.
Also I think it stupid for the Gallente Light to have 3 hp/s and mediums 2hp/s. It should be the other way around. Good point I noticed this today Gallente Heavy 1hp/s (why?) Gallente Medium 2 hp/s (decent) Gallente Light 3hp/s (again why? this should have went to the heavy class or the medium class)
If you play your chess pieces for the role they are intended it makes perfect sense.
Heavy squad offense/defense with logi support. heavy armor low self healing
Medium squad offense/defense/support. medium armor mid self healing
light solo offense/defense with no support. light armor high self healing |
Gavr1Io Pr1nc1p
493
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Posted - 2014.06.17 11:12:00 -
[29] - Quote
Vitharr Foebane wrote:We've been telling you what we think YOU just couldn't hear us over your wailing CCP Rattati wrote:I like the deadliness of a heavy hmg as it is right now. If we were to reduce its efficiency in a future hotfix, it would most likely be to heat since that rewards skill and not spray and pray.
Improving the assault is then my preferred counter to heavies, not nerfing heavies, most likely through racial tanking improvements, pure damage output and regen. Just my general thoughts on the subject.
No, you've been telling everyone what you think, and everyone else has disagreed 
What all Minjas are thinking as they play...
Yellow Heavy, Red Heavy...
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Rynoceros
Rise Of Old Dudes
3938
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Posted - 2014.06.17 12:06:00 -
[30] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:That everyone's Max Rotation Speeds are exactly the same (heavy or light, plates or no plates).
I wouldn't pop the champagne until he weighs in on this point; I'm beginning to think its a bug.
But while we're on the point, do you guys think that the arse of an 1800HP Gal Sentinel should be his "soft spot" or "weak point"? Or do you think he should be able respond to threats from behind as readily as anyone else?
You guys already know what I think ... what do you think? We know and it sucked to be a heavy when turning speed was lower, I don't remember when that was. I might be coerced into saying maybe turning speed could be affected by plates.
If you wanted to do it right, there would be a scaled restriction from tier to tier.
Example: 5% Penalty to Heavy Turn Speed, 7% to Mediums, 10% to Lights
Why?
A Heavy Frame should be able to carry the burdensome plates more effectively than a lighter frame.
It's like hauling an anvil. A truck would carry the weight with less effort, whereas a VW Rabbit would bottom out and drag its exhaust.
If you guys wanna gimp us, that's fine. I'll do just the same, because Heavies aren't the problem.
Assaults are.
After a week of your posts, I'm beginning to think that maybe you just focus on trying to get good instead of having everyone molded into something a proper scrub can win against.
I have know, OP: What setup are you running that's getting you wrecked so much and so badly?
PSN: The_Rynoceros
Destiny beta SoonGäó
Console Master Race
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