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Determining How Balanced The Heavies Are

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Atiim NoGameNoLife 9487	Posted - 2014.06.16 00:26:00 - [1] - Quote Ever since the Uprising 1.8 patch was deployed, there has been a lot of players saying that the Heavy Class is overpowered. While I usually enjoy a good balance discussion, I've usually dismissed these claims due to a lack of merit, and my experience with using them before Uprising 1.8. However, there have been some intresting arguments that have been presented which could indicate an imbalance with the Sentinel suit. This however, is not meant to be me stating that I believe that the role is overpowered nor is it meant to be a confirmation that I believe that the role is balanced either. At the moment of this writing, I am impartial to the assertion. With that in mind, there are things that I will be taking note of in my testing. Strengths of the Heavy Weaknesses of the Heavy Skills (not in reference to SP) required to effectively use the Heavy Performance in comparison to other frames of corresponding race Performance of weapons designated to the Heavy Difficulty of defeating the Sentinel. (Inside and outside of it's niche). Some questions I will be asking: How difficult is it to use the Heavy? In comparison to it's counter(s)? How difficult is it to use the HMG when compared to similar weapons, such as conventional rifles? How many counters does it have? Are these counters viable? If so, How? How vital is support for the Sentinel to function? How well does the Heavy perform 'solo' compared to other classes? What is the probability of tactics utilized succeeding when compared to the tactics of other AP roles? I should also note that I will not include primaries other than the ones that fall under the Heavy Weapon category, and my research of the difficulty involved with killing the Heavy will mainly involve weapons designed to counter them, such as the Shotgun and Nova Knives. Along with that, I will also be sampling this data with Heavies who have quite a bit of experience with the role, as simply using my experience could prove to be anecdotal. I know I missed a few areas that I should be looking into, so please feel free to add any. that I've missed. -HAND Amarrians would prefer you be faithful... I'd rather you be logical. Proud defender of Ishukone Corporation. -HAMD
Atiim NoGameNoLife 9487	Posted - 2014.06.16 00:27:00 - [2] - Quote {Reserved] Amarrians would prefer you be faithful... I'd rather you be logical. Proud defender of Ishukone Corporation. -HAMD
Izlare Lenix Last VenDetta. Dark Taboo 696	Posted - 2014.06.16 00:36:00 - [3] - Quote I think a very small reduction to the hmg's ROF and a small decrease in heavy turning speed would better balance the heavies versus other classes. But these decreases need to be small, otherwise the point of using a heavy would be diminished. Gun control is not about guns...it's about control. The only way to ensure freedom is by having the means to defend it.
Rynoceros Rise Of Old Dudes 3918	Posted - 2014.06.16 00:39:00 - [4] - Quote What is the chief generalized complaint about Heavies? "They're OP." How many of these players primarily use Scouts? How many of these players primarily use Assaults? Do the Scouts feel balanced against Medium Frames? Do Medium Frames feel balanced against Heavies? Are these complaints coming from players attempting to play outside of a suit's designed role? Why? Who the ** is Ben Affleck, and what the ** is the internet? Please nerf the turn speed. It turns too fast for its purpose. I could be so much more effective with a slower rotation speed. Unless you lock it down completely, it's going to benefit us. Do it and see what I mean, all of you dumbasses that have no idea what the *** you're talking about. PSN: The_Rynoceros Destiny beta SoonGäó Console Master Race
Scheneighnay McBob The Last of DusT. General Tso's Alliance 5289	Posted - 2014.06.16 00:48:00 - [5] - Quote -How difficult is it to use the Heavy? In comparison to it's counter(s)? Very easy. Not saying that everything else is rocket science, but all you do is plod around and shoot. -How difficult is it to use the HMG when compared to similar weapons, such as conventional rifles? Really it's just a beefed-up version of a conventional rifle. Can overheat if you're a dumbass, but generally not an issue when it happens. -How many counters does it have? Are these counters viable? If so, How? Depends on what you mean by counter. In its niche, your only hope is a shotgun or knife scout taking them by surprise. Outside of its niche, it does have a few counters, albeit none of them are your traditional assault rifle. -How vital is support for the Sentinel to function? With the recent buffs to reps, they're almost completely independent now. They just need to come across a nanohive or supply depot every now and then. -How well does the Heavy perform 'solo' compared to other classes? About in the middle. Better than assaults and logis, worse than commandos and scouts. -What is the probability of tactics utilized succeeding when compared to the tactics of other AP roles? What? I'm not too familiar with heavy tactics as I don't use them too often. Seems to me like they don't even HAVE tactics besides move forward when the time is right, or sit in a safe spot. péñpâ¦pé+pâìpââpâêpü«tÄïµºÿpüïpéÅpüäpüä pé¦pâ+pé¦pâ½pâäpâ¬pâ¦pé¦pâ¼pâ+pâêpü»sñ¬S+ïpéè
Heimdallr69 Nyain San 2559	Posted - 2014.06.16 00:50:00 - [6] - Quote The hmg range is to much that is all. Removed inappropriate content - CCP Logibro
Greasepalms Ahrendee Mercenaries 591	Posted - 2014.06.16 00:56:00 - [7] - Quote too agile. I don't mean sprint/strafe speeds, those are fine. I find that their rotation speed should be slower and in/out of vehicle transitions should be a lot slower for heavy classes as well.
Lorhak Gannarsein Legio DXIV 3564	Posted - 2014.06.16 01:00:00 - [8] - Quote McBob's got it down. HMG is easy-mode. WARNING - anecdote inbound - WARNING A friend of mine came back to dust yesterday and I spent the whole time in squad chatting with him rather than supporting; I was in an LAV AVing and roadkilling (not in that order) and he was in a 'Dren' Sentinel and an HMG and pulling 30-2, 29-3, all the while talking about how he'd forgotten about the Sentinel's craziness. CCP Rattati Best Dev AmLogi 5 GÇó AmAss 5 GÇó AmSent 4 GÇó CalScout 4 (2 days left...)
Scheneighnay McBob The Last of DusT. General Tso's Alliance 5289	Posted - 2014.06.16 01:29:00 - [9] - Quote Heimdallr69 wrote: The hmg range is to much that is all. Range doesn't seem to be the problem as much as clip size. They only have about the range of a combat rifle. péñpâ¦pé+pâìpââpâêpü«tÄïµºÿpüïpéÅpüäpüä pé¦pâ+pé¦pâ½pâäpâ¬pâ¦pé¦pâ¼pâ+pâêpü»sñ¬S+ïpéè
Pvt Numnutz Watchdoge Explosives 1492	Posted - 2014.06.16 02:34:00 - [10] - Quote Will be interesting to see what you find. I hope heavies come in and comment on this. To me the hmg is a out of proportion and kills reds in droves. When I die and look in the kill feed I see the same heavy mowing down everyone that was around me. The kill feed stacks up until there aren't any more blues for the heavy to kill. I don't think the power of the hmg is at fault, I think its the ability to massacre entire groups without a drawback. This can be done with a std hmg, after a heavy friend of mine finished off a good 3-4 enemies with his hmg I raised the point with him. While the killing power is fine perhaps the hmg should have increased heat buildup with continuous fire. Making it so they can still dispatch other frame suits as easily, but the heavy will have to consider how many he can take at once without over heating. See how it fits into your findings.

Rynoceros Rise Of Old Dudes 3921	Posted - 2014.06.16 02:54:00 - [11] - Quote Pvt Numnutz wrote: I think its the ability to massacre entire groups without a drawback. If a HMG takes out an entire squad, it's most likely because: 1) the HMG is a notorious Kill stealer. 2) the squad was firing at the wrong person. 3) the squad was too focused on a singular objective without watching their flanks. 4) it was probably 2 Heavies with a single Logi able to support both, which I myself admit is a ** mechanic. 5) you got Scotty'd with the team. It happens to ALL of us. 6) your team is just bad and should feel bad. Quit FPSing and grab a knitting needle. 7) ** happens. PSN: The_Rynoceros Destiny beta SoonGäó Console Master Race
Tectonic Fusion 1693	Posted - 2014.06.16 04:58:00 - [12] - Quote Rynoceros wrote: Pvt Numnutz wrote: I think its the ability to massacre entire groups without a drawback. If a HMG takes out an entire squad, it's most likely because: 1) the HMG is a notorious Kill stealer. 2) the squad was firing at the wrong person. 3) the squad was too focused on a singular objective without watching their flanks. 4) it was probably 2 Heavies with a single Logi able to support both, which I myself admit is a ** mechanic. 5) you got Scotty'd with the team. It happens to ALL of us. 6) your team is just bad and should feel bad. Quit FPSing and grab a knitting needle. 7) ** happens. These^
Pvt Numnutz Watchdoge Explosives 1492	Posted - 2014.06.16 05:09:00 - [13] - Quote Rynoceros wrote: Pvt Numnutz wrote: I think its the ability to massacre entire groups without a drawback. If a HMG takes out an entire squad, it's most likely because: 1) the HMG is a notorious Kill stealer. 2) the squad was firing at the wrong person. 3) the squad was too focused on a singular objective without watching their flanks. 4) it was probably 2 Heavies with a single Logi able to support both, which I myself admit is a ** mechanic. 5) you got Scotty'd with the team. It happens to ALL of us. 6) your team is just bad and should feel bad. Quit FPSing and grab a knitting needle. 7) ** happens. Actually it's just the heavy, shows up and decimates anything around it. I've watched my minmatar heavy friend do this with his basic hmg time and time again, even when drawing fire from multiple mercs. The kill feed looks like this in these situations, Heavy hmg blueberry Heavy hmg blueberry Heavy hmg blueberry Red combat rifle blueberry Heavy hmg blueberry I see this in just about every game I play. Sure sometimes its something off your list but more often then not its the entire group focusing fire on the heavy.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 1908	Posted - 2014.06.16 05:13:00 - [14] - Quote The thing that burns me up most ... We CQC Scouts used to be a viable counter to the Heavy. If we got caught, we got smashed. Still do. Totally OK with that. But if we managed to get behind a Heavy, the takedown was swift and quiet. That's the way it should be. Today, its a fcking crapshoot of chaos. Our knives only hit so hard and our shotguns only fire so fast. And that 1,500 HP / 900 DPS behemoth can pirouette in an instant. I'm not sure how best to fix the problem. But I'm sure as sht that there is a problem. Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
Xocoyol Zaraoul Superior Genetics 1993	Posted - 2014.06.16 05:15:00 - [15] - Quote Rail Rifles are also a "Hard Counter" to armor heavies at range, and Scrambler Rifles for the shield nutters. Shrugs I'll stop playing my heavy for a while and prot-bear it up in my pure 100% Caldari Suit and show random people how to kill heavies for the next few weeks (To no avail...), RE's not needed All seriousness though I'm interested in seeing how yet another heavy discussion thread goes... My question is though... What is "Balanced" to people? Do we want heavies to have a 50/50 chance against Assault and Scout suits in a standard engagement? Are heavies supposed to be equal 'Slayers" despite being grossly inferior for hacking, detection, dodging, and changing objectives, or should they be better Slayers due to their drawbacks, if so then how much is an acceptable "Edge" for the Slayer Role? Should HMGs have comparable DPS to light weapons, or more? Do we want shorter clip sizes, if so then how much, and then should we reduce the 8 second reload on them if we do? Already I'm seeing ridiculous statements in this thread such as "All heavies do is plod forward and shoot and don't use tactics" which sounds like me saying something equally absurd such as "All scouts do is uncloak and shotgun people in the back" or "All assaults do is bunnyhop and strafe." What are you balancing the heavies for, exactly? What do you want them to do, mission statement wise, compared to other suits? "You see those red dots over there? Go and shoot them until you see a +50 on the screen" - Arkena Wyrnspire
Long Evity 1590	Posted - 2014.06.16 05:33:00 - [16] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: -How difficult is it to use the Heavy? In comparison to it's counter(s)? Very easy. Not saying that everything else is rocket science, but all you do is plod around and shoot. -How difficult is it to use the HMG when compared to similar weapons, such as conventional rifles? Really it's just a beefed-up version of a conventional rifle. Can overheat if you're a dumbass, but generally not an issue when it happens. -How many counters does it have? Are these counters viable? If so, How? Depends on what you mean by counter. In its niche, your only hope is a shotgun or knife scout taking them by surprise. Outside of its niche, it does have a few counters, albeit none of them are your traditional assault rifle. -How vital is support for the Sentinel to function? With the recent buffs to reps, they're almost completely independent now. They just need to come across a nanohive or supply depot every now and then. -How well does the Heavy perform 'solo' compared to other classes? About in the middle. Better than assaults and logis, worse than commandos and scouts. -What is the probability of tactics utilized succeeding when compared to the tactics of other AP roles? What? I'm not too familiar with heavy tactics as I don't use them too often. Seems to me like they don't even HAVE tactics besides move forward when the time is right, or sit in a safe spot. I'll list these as 5 points: 1) HMG is the easiest by far, and also the most frustrating. With low range, long reload times, and over-heating that renders you useless for up to 6-8 seconds, running wild with the HMG is the easiest recipe for a free kill for your enemies. 2) Counters are as follows for weapons that enter HMG optimal: Tanks, ADS, Shotgun, RE, Nova Knife, and CR. As far as how many weapons can counter heavy - each and every single one can. Just stand 35m away. 3) Independence? Heavies could always be independent, 4 complex reps even before buffs was insane. With it - it's just more insane. But what do Reps actually do for heavies? Unless your a smart heavy who uses corners to avoid your large hitbox making you easy fodder, reps won't come into play until you've secured your spot. Stacking Reps is never a good idea with a heavy, must balance reps with plates to be effective. Only run full reps with murder taxi. 4) It's the hardest to solo in. You would think it the other way around, but with no ability to adapt to situations, the heavy is doomed in any confrontation he didn't approach into himself or was prepared for by sitting in a forced CQC position. It is not an adaptable suit to handle solo play. You must make up for the suits weaknesses and use vehicles. 5) Heavy tactics pretty much trump all others in 1v1 confrontation. If you get into HMG optimal, then all the heavy has to do is just be self-aware. No heavy should lose a 1v1 confrontation if he's where he should be. No tactic the other side can deploy (without being caught doing it by the heavy first) can honestly over-come a smart heavy without overwhelming his position. Do I think heavies are OP? ** NO. Is the HMG OP? NO!!!!!!! Anyone who thinks HMG is OP isn't playing PC much. Until I get a heavy weapon that can counter all the range weapons ***** me up - you can get used to our only real weapon being dominate in it's effective range. Also, don't forget to calculate price, Heavies cost more ISK and SP. I am not who you think I am, only but just a dream.
Xocoyol Zaraoul Superior Genetics 1994	Posted - 2014.06.16 05:35:00 - [17] - Quote Long Evity wrote: Heavies cost more ISK and SP. Actually Logies cost the most, for both. "You see those red dots over there? Go and shoot them until you see a +50 on the screen" - Arkena Wyrnspire
Miokai Zahou The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 300	Posted - 2014.06.16 05:36:00 - [18] - Quote Heavy suits and the HMG are the most balanced items of the whole damn lot and should be left alone. What is need is a look at are assault suits, shield mods, weapon tweaks (not HMG), ADS hit detection issues etc. We should be looking at the heavy suits and HMG as the base of what can be fixed for other items not looking to nerfing the heavy suits and HMG.... Although I would like them to only carry heavy weapons and a side arm and let the commandos do there job and be the ones that can carry light weapons.... Noob isn't really a status, it's the online equivalent of a 5-year old calling you a poopy fart head.
Long Evity 1590	Posted - 2014.06.16 05:40:00 - [19] - Quote Xocoyol Zaraoul wrote: Long Evity wrote: Heavies cost more ISK and SP. Actually Logies cost the most, for both. logi's also get a bigger payout thanks to all that war points. Heavy without a forge will likely not break 1k WP, where a scrub mlt logi can hit 3k just using mlt crap that may be hurting his team more then helping. I am not who you think I am, only but just a dream.
Bojo The Mighty Spaceman Drug Cartel-Uno 3826	Posted - 2014.06.16 05:43:00 - [20] - Quote I would say that Gallente and Amarr heavies are too strong of a force to be used alone. The high ceiling of Armor and the resistances of heavies in general put Gallente and Amarr far ahead of their Minmatar/Caldari brothers. But my main ***** about heavies is dat HMG I'm not resting in peace but rather wandering as a zombie in vengeance of no good reason

Vitharr Foebane Terminal Courtesy 1395	Posted - 2014.06.16 05:55:00 - [21] - Quote Bojo The Mighty wrote: I would say that Gallente and Amarr heavies are too strong of a force to be used alone. The high ceiling of Armor and the resistances of heavies in general put Gallente and Amarr far ahead of their Minmatar/Caldari brothers. But my main ***** about heavies is dat HMG You mean the fact that the 3rd lowest ranged weapon in the game is really good in its pathetic optimal.... Amarr: Sentinel V Scout V Assault IV Commando IV Logistics IV I place my faith in my God, my Empress, and my Laz0r
1st Lieutenant Tiberius 0uter.Heaven 1899	Posted - 2014.06.16 06:00:00 - [22] - Quote Less freedom of movement, they need to be Kite-able for the amount of sheer defensive and offensive capabilities they have. Everything else is fine IMO The Sinwarden of 0uter.Heaven
Lynn Beck NoGameNoLife 1830	Posted - 2014.06.16 06:00:00 - [23] - Quote I don't appreciate being downed by a Mlt heavy with a basic HMG while i'm in a Proto Minmando with a Enhanced plate and a Six Kin Cr(yea yea i deserve to die bc CR is a crutch) That 1 point makes it a little bit annoying, that my Prototype is instagibbed by the 700DPS warmachine. Yes, i want Heavy gear to be better than a rifle. No, i don't like an HMG singlehandedly winning a fight against 10 people. Yes i want the HMG to have its' niche. No i don't want the HMG to be 'grab a Basic HMG and kill all but other heavies' I shouldn't have to get my Basic sentinel with Mh-82 to kill a a-1 sentinel that has a mlt rep tool on him. That should be what my Md/Cr combo is there for to counter. Heavies shouldn't be able to just waddle into a room and -while under fire from multiple protosuits- just kill them. General John Ripper Like ALL the things!!!
1st Lieutenant Tiberius 0uter.Heaven 1899	Posted - 2014.06.16 06:03:00 - [24] - Quote Lynn Beck wrote: I don't appreciate being downed by a Mlt heavy with a basic HMG while i'm in a Proto Minmando with a Enhanced plate and a Six Kin Cr(yea yea i deserve to die bc CR is a crutch) If the heavy has to turn less than 135 degrees to fire at you then you're doing it wrong. Flank, Flux and have an exit strategy, you don't have to kill him in the first engagement. The Sinwarden of 0uter.Heaven
Appia Vibbia Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2931	Posted - 2014.06.16 06:05:00 - [25] - Quote Atiim wrote: Ever since the Uprising 1.8 patch was deployed, there has been a lot of players saying that the Heavy Class is overpowered. While I usually enjoy a good balance discussion, I've usually dismissed these claims due to a lack of merit, and my experience with using them before Uprising 1.8. However, there have been some intresting arguments that have been presented which could indicate an imbalance with the Sentinel suit. This however, is not meant to be me stating that I believe that the role is overpowered nor is it meant to be a confirmation that I believe that the role is balanced either. At the moment of this writing, I am impartial to the assertion. With that in mind, there are things that I will be taking note of in my testing. Strengths of the Heavy Weaknesses of the Heavy Skills (not in reference to SP) required to effectively use the Heavy Performance in comparison to other frames of corresponding race Performance of weapons designated to the Heavy Difficulty of defeating the Sentinel. (Inside and outside of it's niche). Some questions I will be asking: How difficult is it to use the Heavy? In comparison to it's counter(s)? How difficult is it to use the HMG when compared to similar weapons, such as conventional rifles? How many counters does it have? Are these counters viable? If so, How? How vital is support for the Sentinel to function? How well does the Heavy perform 'solo' compared to other classes? What is the probability of tactics utilized succeeding when compared to the tactics of other AP roles? I should also note that I will not include primaries other than the ones that fall under the Heavy Weapon category, and my research of the difficulty involved with killing the Heavy will mainly involve weapons designed to counter them, such as the Shotgun and Nova Knives. Along with that, I will also be sampling this data with Heavies who have quite a bit of experience with the role, as simply using my experience could prove to be anecdotal. I know I missed a few areas that I should be looking into, so please feel free to add any. that I've missed. -HAND Strengths lie in long-wide hallways like inside Fracture Road's [B] or the Research facility near [A] or [B] and in tight quarters like Orbital Artillery or inside the Communications Outpost. Weakness of the heavy are the wide open maps in between objectives. They either need transport or a Logi to accompany them or are sitting ducks. Heavy has Low entry level skill. Anyone can do fairly well with it. However it takes a good amount of skill to choose your targets when it is you vs multiple opponents and you need to be accustomed to dealing with people shooting you in the back. I'd say it shows the least difference between STD and PRO compared to the other suits because it has such ease to fit proto weapons and proto mods on the STD suit. The HMG is the only Anti-Infantry Heavy Weapon. Its got some good dispersion on it and because of that it would not do well on a Medium frame, if that were somehow possible to fit. IMO it is too unique to propperly evaluate, other than does it do better than a light weapon from within the same range. It's doing its job right now as I see it. As a stand alone suit. There's no real issue with kill it. It's a fun challenge when the Sentinel has a LogiBro. But it is extremely powerful and hard to counter when there are 2 Sentinels and a Logi working together Appia Vibbia for CPM1 AppiaVibbia(at)gmail(dot)com AKA Nappia, AKA Mathppia
Vitharr Foebane Terminal Courtesy 1395	Posted - 2014.06.16 06:05:00 - [26] - Quote 1st Lieutenant Tiberius wrote: Less freedom of movement, they need to be Kite-able for the amount of sheer defensive and offensive capabilities they have. Everything else is fine IMO 3rd lowest ranged weapon not kiteable enough? Amarr: Sentinel V Scout V Assault IV Commando IV Logistics IV I place my faith in my God, my Empress, and my Laz0r
Bojo The Mighty Spaceman Drug Cartel-Uno 3828	Posted - 2014.06.16 06:12:00 - [27] - Quote Vitharr Foebane wrote: Bojo The Mighty wrote: I would say that Gallente and Amarr heavies are too strong of a force to be used alone. The high ceiling of Armor and the resistances of heavies in general put Gallente and Amarr far ahead of their Minmatar/Caldari brothers. But my main *** about heavies is dat HMG You mean the fact that the 3rd lowest ranged weapon in the game is really good in its pathetic optimal.... Bullshit it can out DPS my AR in it's own range you don't even have time to react you are just dead if you are even at 40 meters and at 50 you gotta hustle and at 60 it's like an AR that does **** shield damage I'm not resting in peace but rather wandering as a zombie in vengeance of no good reason
Vitharr Foebane Terminal Courtesy 1396	Posted - 2014.06.16 06:17:00 - [28] - Quote Bojo The Mighty wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: Bojo The Mighty wrote: I would say that Gallente and Amarr heavies are too strong of a force to be used alone. The high ceiling of Armor and the resistances of heavies in general put Gallente and Amarr far ahead of their Minmatar/Caldari brothers. But my main *** about heavies is dat HMG You mean the fact that the 3rd lowest ranged weapon in the game is really good in its pathetic optimal.... Bullshit it can out DPS my AR in it's own range you don't even have time to react you are just dead if you are even at 40 meters and at 50 you gotta hustle and at 60 it's like an AR that does **** shield damage In order to even try to hit at that range the heavy has to ADS and crouch opening his terra sized head to be violated by any weapon but a SG... Amarr: Sentinel V Scout V Assault IV Commando IV Logistics IV I place my faith in my God, my Empress, and my Laz0r
Long Evity 1593	Posted - 2014.06.16 06:23:00 - [29] - Quote Bojo The Mighty wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: Bojo The Mighty wrote: I would say that Gallente and Amarr heavies are too strong of a force to be used alone. The high ceiling of Armor and the resistances of heavies in general put Gallente and Amarr far ahead of their Minmatar/Caldari brothers. But my main *** about heavies is dat HMG You mean the fact that the 3rd lowest ranged weapon in the game is really good in its pathetic optimal.... Bullshit it can out DPS my AR in it's own range you don't even have time to react you are just dead if you are even at 40 meters and at 50 you gotta hustle and at 60 it's like an AR that does **** shield damage Can I have whatever your having? I wish my HMG could kill at 40m. It only seems to kill people with 200EHP I am not who you think I am, only but just a dream.
Rizlax Yazzax Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 299	Posted - 2014.06.16 06:56:00 - [30] - Quote Long Evity wrote: Bojo The Mighty wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: Bojo The Mighty wrote: I would say that Gallente and Amarr heavies are too strong of a force to be used alone. The high ceiling of Armor and the resistances of heavies in general put Gallente and Amarr far ahead of their Minmatar/Caldari brothers. But my main *** about heavies is dat HMG You mean the fact that the 3rd lowest ranged weapon in the game is really good in its pathetic optimal.... Bullshit it can out DPS my AR in it's own range you don't even have time to react you are just dead if you are even at 40 meters and at 50 you gotta hustle and at 60 it's like an AR that does **** shield damage Can I have whatever your having? I wish my HMG could kill at 40m. It only seems to kill people with 200EHP This. Whenever I'm using my heavy and get kills at 30m+ it's either because there are people firing with me, or I have to empty a large portion of my ammo due to the drop-off/dispersion. Speaking as a Heavy/HMG user and a victim of it, I honestly think It's balanced. Heavies are meant to be pure powerhouses designed for slaying and taking a beating. If you try to take one on within their short range or optimal environment (corridors/enclosed spaces), then yes you will die horribly. As for the "pirouette" issue when attacking from behind, if you aren't flanking as they turn to defend themselves of course you're going to go down. They are meant to take punishment and as such sometimes require more effort than "stand and shoot in face".

Vitharr Foebane Terminal Courtesy 1396	Posted - 2014.06.16 07:00:00 - [31] - Quote Rizlax Yazzax wrote: Long Evity wrote: Bojo The Mighty wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: Bojo The Mighty wrote: I would say that Gallente and Amarr heavies are too strong of a force to be used alone. The high ceiling of Armor and the resistances of heavies in general put Gallente and Amarr far ahead of their Minmatar/Caldari brothers. But my main *** about heavies is dat HMG You mean the fact that the 3rd lowest ranged weapon in the game is really good in its pathetic optimal.... Bullshit it can out DPS my AR in it's own range you don't even have time to react you are just dead if you are even at 40 meters and at 50 you gotta hustle and at 60 it's like an AR that does **** shield damage Can I have whatever your having? I wish my HMG could kill at 40m. It only seems to kill people with 200EHP This. Whenever I'm using my heavy and get kills at 30m+ it's either because there are people firing with me, or I have to empty a large portion of my ammo due to the drop-off/dispersion. Speaking as a Heavy/HMG user and a victim of it, I honestly think It's balanced. Heavies are meant to be pure powerhouses designed for slaying and taking a beating. If you try to take one on within their short range or optimal environment (corridors/enclosed spaces), then yes you will die horribly. As for the "pirouette" issue when attacking from behind, if you aren't flanking as they turn to defend themselves of course you're going to go down. They are meant to take punishment and as such sometimes require more effort than "stand and shoot in face". Shush that is way too much logic for the scrub brain you might make them god forbid.... think o.O Amarr: Sentinel V Scout V Assault IV Commando IV Logistics IV I place my faith in my God, my Empress, and my Laz0r
I-Shayz-I I-----I 3684	Posted - 2014.06.16 08:26:00 - [32] - Quote I think people forget... Sentinels get 2 types of points: -Kills -Kill asssists That's it. They can't do anything else unless they are geared for AV So when you see a standard heavy get 20 kills in a match, with only about 1000 wp, know that it's what the sentinel is designed for, and what they are supposed to do. 7162 wp with a Repair Tool! List of Legion Feedback Threads!
Long Evity 1594	Posted - 2014.06.16 08:28:00 - [33] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: I think people forget... Sentinels get 2 types of points: -Kills -Kill asssists That's it. They can't do anything else unless they are geared for AV So when you see a standard heavy get 20 kills in a match, with only about 1000 wp, know that it's what the sentinel is designed for, and what they are supposed to do. Long Evity wrote: Xocoyol Zaraoul wrote: Long Evity wrote: Heavies cost more ISK and SP. Actually Logies cost the most, for both. logi's also get a bigger payout thanks to all that war points. Heavy without a forge will likely not break 1k WP, where a scrub mlt logi can hit 3k just using mlt crap that may be hurting his team more then helping. Heavies have it hard and no one cares to notice :( I am not who you think I am, only but just a dream.
Velociraptor antirrhopus Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 199	Posted - 2014.06.16 08:39:00 - [34] - Quote Bullshit. Shotgunners tear us apart. And pretty soon you're just going to need a boundless remote instead of a basic. Rail rifles, mass drivers, even laser rifles blow us to smitherines. Pretty much any rifle at range. My thoughts on Hotfix Alpha: First I noticed a scout running from my AR. Then a heavy. Then a COMBAT RIFLE USER. CCP +1
Velociraptor antirrhopus Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 199	Posted - 2014.06.16 08:46:00 - [35] - Quote Appia Vibbia wrote: I'd say it shows the least difference between STD and PRO compared to the other suits because it has such ease to fit proto weapons and proto mods on the STD suit. You couldn't be more wrong. First of all, at the proto level you resist 15% of some type of damage and 10% of another, as well as a small explosive resistance: Amarr 15% projectile to armor 10% rail to shields Gallente 15% rail to armor, 10% projectile to armor Caldari 15% laser to shield, 10% plasma to shield (if I remember correctly) Minmatar 15% laser to armor, 10% plasma to armor (if I remember correctly) Secondly I would argue there is even a more drastic difference between PRO and STD heavy weapons than there is for light weapons. I seriously melt through anything including some heavies instantly with my Six Kin Burst, and I annihilate in Pubs with my Basic HMG, all because of HMG proficiency 5. You don't get those kinds of results on shield proficiency weapons. My thoughts on Hotfix Alpha: First I noticed a scout running from my AR. Then a heavy. Then a COMBAT RIFLE USER. CCP +1
Appia Vibbia Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2933	Posted - 2014.06.16 13:43:00 - [36] - Quote I think you're confusing Operation skill and the actual suits and weapons Appia Vibbia for CPM1 AppiaVibbia(at)gmail(dot)com AKA Nappia, AKA Mathppia
Powerh8er Ganking Jugend 440	Posted - 2014.06.16 14:32:00 - [37] - Quote The heavies only role on the battlefield is to kill and destroy stuff. Get good or play cod if you wanna "balance" that.
Gelan Corbaine Gladiators Vanguard 463	Posted - 2014.06.16 14:50:00 - [38] - Quote Lynn Beck wrote: I don't appreciate being downed by a Mlt heavy with a basic HMG while i'm in a Proto Minmando with a Enhanced plate and a Six Kin Cr(yea yea i deserve to die bc CR is a crutch) That 1 point makes it a little bit annoying, that my Prototype is instagibbed by the 700DPS warmachine. Yes, i want Heavy gear to be better than a rifle. No, i don't like an HMG singlehandedly winning a fight against 10 people. Yes i want the HMG to have its' niche. No i don't want the HMG to be 'grab a Basic HMG and kill all but other heavies' I shouldn't have to get my Basic sentinel with Mh-82 to kill a a-1 sentinel that has a mlt rep tool on him. That should be what my Md/Cr combo is there for to counter. Heavies shouldn't be able to just waddle into a room and -while under fire from multiple protosuits- just kill them. Hmmm ...... I've little problem with heavies in a minmando .... but I go with a Com kin and a rep instead of a plate. Speed is always best when dealing with a Heavy Sen...........unless it's a Minmatar Speed Heavy Sen .....but come on ! We need that speed ! No job is worth doing if you don't get paid in the end .
Vitharr Foebane Terminal Courtesy 1405	Posted - 2014.06.16 14:56:00 - [39] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: I think people forget... Sentinels get 2 types of points: -Kills -Kill asssists That's it. They can't do anything else unless they are geared for AV So when you see a standard heavy get 20 kills in a match, with only about 1000 wp, know that it's what the sentinel is designed for, and what they are supposed to do. Even when geared for AV it's still Kills and Assists with the occasional damage points that is all a heavy can do excluding commandos of course. Amarr: Sentinel V Scout V Assault IV Commando IV Logistics IV I place my faith in my God, my Empress, and my Laz0r
Atiim NoGameNoLife 9509	Posted - 2014.06.16 15:47:00 - [40] - Quote Appia Vibbia wrote: I think you're confusing Operation skill and the actual suits and weapons Is this a reply to me? Because if so, I used the term Heavy because I'm assessing both the Sentinel and Basic Frames in my study. Amarrians would prefer you be faithful... I'd rather you be logical. Proud defender of Ishukone Corporation. -HAND

Atiim NoGameNoLife 9512	Posted - 2014.06.16 15:49:00 - [41] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: I think people forget... Sentinels get 2 types of points: -Kills -Kill asssists That's it. They can't do anything else unless they are geared for AV So when you see a standard heavy get 20 kills in a match, with only about 1000 wp, know that it's what the sentinel is designed for, and what they are supposed to do. Being designed to do something does not warrant a possible imbalance. It would be easy for HAV Pilots to say the same thing (actually they have in the past), and for reasons I hope we already know that is not a valid argument. Amarrians would prefer you be faithful... I'd rather you be logical. Proud defender of Ishukone Corporation. -HAND
Bojo The Mighty Spaceman Drug Cartel-Uno 3832	Posted - 2014.06.16 17:19:00 - [42] - Quote Long Evity wrote: Bojo The Mighty wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: Bojo The Mighty wrote: I would say that Gallente and Amarr heavies are too strong of a force to be used alone. The high ceiling of Armor and the resistances of heavies in general put Gallente and Amarr far ahead of their Minmatar/Caldari brothers. But my main *** about heavies is dat HMG You mean the fact that the 3rd lowest ranged weapon in the game is really good in its pathetic optimal.... Bullshit it can out DPS my AR in it's own range you don't even have time to react you are just dead if you are even at 40 meters and at 50 you gotta hustle and at 60 it's like an AR that does ** shield damage Can I have whatever your having? I wish my HMG could kill at 40m. It only seems to kill people with 200EHP But I do only have 200 HP (near) and it's all majority in armor and if I tank people *** that I shouldn't (?) and until Hotfix bravo my all my AR is getting out DPS'd considering that armor to shield ratio of the common merc is heavily weighed on armor..... Apparently I can either have cake or eat someone else's....... Maybe it's hard for me to realize my actual DPS because when I'm sitting at 50 meters trying to pummel a heavy with an AR and they whip around like they don't weigh a metric ton and start spitting and draining my health faster than I can bite their armor it gets a little hard to judge how hard (lack there of) hitting my AR is compared to the Bullet Hose. I'm not resting in peace but rather wandering as a zombie in vengeance of no good reason
Lorhak Gannarsein Legio DXIV 3576	Posted - 2014.06.16 17:53:00 - [43] - Quote Velociraptor antirrhopus wrote: Appia Vibbia wrote: I'd say it shows the least difference between STD and PRO compared to the other suits because it has such ease to fit proto weapons and proto mods on the STD suit. You couldn't be more wrong. First of all, at the proto level you resist 15% of some type of damage and 10% of another, as well as a small explosive resistance: Amarr 15% projectile to armor 10% rail to shields Gallente 15% rail to armor, 10% projectile to armor Caldari 15% laser to shield, 10% plasma to shield (if I remember correctly) Minmatar 15% laser to armor, 10% plasma to armor (if I remember correctly) Secondly I would argue there is even a more drastic difference between PRO and STD heavy weapons than there is for light weapons. I seriously melt through anything including some heavies instantly with my Six Kin Burst, and I annihilate in Pubs with my Basic HMG, all because of HMG proficiency 5. You don't get those kinds of results on shield proficiency weapons. Atiim wrote: Appia Vibbia wrote: I think you're confusing Operation skill and the actual suits and weapons Is this a reply to me? Because if so, I used the term Heavy because I'm assessing both the Sentinel and Basic Frames in my study. CCP Rattati Best Dev AmLogi 5 GÇó AmAss 5 GÇó AmSent 4 GÇó CalScout 5
CHANCEtheChAn 0uter.Heaven 415	Posted - 2014.06.16 19:08:00 - [44] - Quote After being a Caldari Heavy for quite some time (Since it was released) And Also being a Cal Scout (Since it was released) and a Cal Assault (Since Chrome) I have seen the ins and outs of the Small/Medium/Heavy frames And through this I have done extensive PC and pub testing for years BASICALLY what it boils down to is this... 1. A sentinel with an HMG is situational, just like the commando, it should probably not be your primary suit because if your running ambush or PC and all you have is a sentinel suit, you are going to waste A LOT of time running if you say, got a bad spawn or are moving from point to point 2. The HMG DPS is staggering (not as much without stun lock) but with a basic sentinel suit and HMG I can easily obtain a 4-10/1 kdr and kill 5-6 people with 1 clip and almost never overheat, and that was back in the first days I first got the suit/weapon simply because I was a good player 3. The suit is a "solo" as you want it to be. Cal sentinel is a self repping suit and is prided in doing so. Min sentinel is as solo as it gets, its high speed and ability to stack reppers in the lows with kincats makes it one of the most dangerous suits in the game (literally having a heavy running as fast as my scout with an HMG scares me in my sleep) but prepare to take dover in sustained fire, but I've also seen good min sentinels out strafe my scout suit. Both of these suits need occasional trips to the supply depot and they are fine solo. The Gal and Amarr heavies need constant supervision from their squadmates and without a logi they are near useless after a 1 vs 1. Because of their good resistances and high armor values they are very slow and cumbersome but take clips upon clips to kill and provide a squad with invaluable WP whoring (Honestly people won't use my heavy in PC JUST BECAUSE they can't WP farm me in a Cal heavy, and yes I've been told this numerous times). 4. For newer players, the HMG and Sentinel combo is the easiest in the game to use to annihilate your enemy. Case in point back when I used my cloak, I ran up on a cal heavy basic frame in pubs one time on surface research lab and cloaked up. Theidiot then proceeded to empty this entire clip (until he eventually overheated) into the air in all directions. And once he was done simply waddled away in the opposite direction of the city objectives. After the game, I noticed he had gone 25-3. I messaged him how long he had been playing DUST and he reacted with a "Oh I've only been playing for about 4 days now." THIS IS COMPLETELY UNNACEPTABLE THAT A NEW PLAYER COULD WIELD THIS MUCH POWER IN HIS HANDS WITH BASIC GEAR. It is also unnacceptable that this noob could walk up to 5 other noobs at his skill level and simply annihilate all 5 just by holding down the R1 button. The HMG barely has any skill needed with it, just point and click and the target really dies quicker than your kick can go high enough over him to be a factor. 5. If your a sentinel without an HMG or forge, your doing it wrong Solutions The sentinel is fine where its at The commando is okay where its at (Could really use an A/V buff) The HMG is the problem basically (I mean geez people I did SO much DPS it LITERALLY warranted a bug fix because it was locking people into place, and yes so did the combat rifle but 9/10 if there is ANY AMOUNT of lag, the combat Rifle loses up to 60% of its effectiveness and reliability in combat unlike the HMG). I warrant 3 Solutions 1.The price for HMGs And/Or sentinel suits to be appropriately skyrocketed back like the old days (Honestly your telling me that the real life cost of a 1,000 pound heavy suit is the same as a 50 pound scout suit for EvE lore sakes) 2. The range of the HMG is increased (To slience all you heavies whining about having no range for a primary or secondary even though the Magsec optimal is what? 55 frieken meters and is viable) with Debuff on damage and maybe 50 extra bullets in the clip (change the basic HMG values to that close to the assault Variant? I figure this might be too much of a jump and instead of 33% of each value of range and damage, maybe a 25% increase/decrease) 3. Drastically increase the difference in damage between all tiers of HMG. Honestly in PC the HMG is still overbearing in power a little but all the players are smart enough to be able to outmenouver and flank boundless HMGs, so the Boundless stats is where you start your DPS decline from.. In pubs however, many people do not possess these skills to even know how to flank a basic HMG and just get annihilated over and over over again without even having a chance to run. This would allow pub players who skill is not on par to still use a basic HMG and successfully kill, but also give militia and basic gear players a chance to retaliate. (Maybe a 35-40% drop off in damage for basic HMG and a 25-15% drop off for Advanced from proto HMG) TL&DR OH ******* WELL, YOU WANTED A DISCUSSION SO YOUR GONNA GET A DAMN DISCUSSION Hmmm. The Meta is strong with this one...
Mortedeamor Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1540	Posted - 2014.06.16 19:16:00 - [45] - Quote personally i think the heavy has to high dps its not a matter of hp as i look as the heavy like a tank in an rpg. your supposed to draw agro take dmg for the team you are a shield not a sword....but of course dust does not technically have any attack suit. (nerfed out of the equation) i would prefer a nerf to the hmg and retain high health lvls. every rpg has the same essential roles the low hp really high dps high speed high recovery rogue or scout low attack high support abilities of a healer or logi's generally have low hp tiers with high recovery high hp lower attack the role of tank draws the agro and focus's the enemies attack low speed average recovery and assault is a general all around average speed average attack average hp
Lynn Beck NoGameNoLife 1834	Posted - 2014.06.16 19:42:00 - [46] - Quote 1st Lieutenant Tiberius wrote: Lynn Beck wrote: I don't appreciate being downed by a Mlt heavy with a basic HMG while i'm in a Proto Minmando with a Enhanced plate and a Six Kin Cr(yea yea i deserve to die bc CR is a crutch) If the heavy has to turn less than 135 degrees to fire at you then you're doing it wrong. Flank, Flux and have an exit strategy, you don't have to kill him in the first engagement. I'm a commando. I don't have the freedom to just 'run away' nor do i have the capability to 'fight him later' as my rgen abilities are nearly identical. Yes, i fit a Complex Kincat, that doesn't mean i can magically cover the 35m necessary to combat a sentinel when he just spawns in directly in front of me. I'm fine with a proto sentinel, or even a tanked Adv sentinel, kiling m prototype commando. When a Mlt heavy that has a Mh-82 or Hmg just instagibs me while still having shields left after killing me, there's something to be questioned. General John Ripper Like ALL the things!!!
Bronx Blackheart NoGameNoLife 0	Posted - 2014.06.16 19:48:00 - [47] - Quote maybe its me but the heavy is mostly fine. I run commandos and sentinels mostly. the sentinel class will mostly win in 1v1 combat. the only way they get taken down is by ambushing them or fighting in squads. the range is no where near as op as everyone says. yes scouts are screwed if a heavy catches them however I can't tell you how many suits were lost to nova knives and shot guns. I played a match where the same guy was looking all the heavies with nova knive/shotgun scouts. also, if I have to put more skill points into getting heavy suits unlocked, I would expect them to be harder to kill minmatars are macguyvers of new eden... and very intimidating to look at
Powerh8er Ganking Jugend 441	Posted - 2014.06.16 20:10:00 - [48] - Quote Your grandma can throw a bag of bananas further than the hmgs range, just ask her.
xSivartx D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 79	Posted - 2014.06.17 12:11:00 - [49] - Quote I've said this before. Heavies are fine stat wise, not price. My proto heavy used to cost 400k. Now it's a mere 175k. Put the prices back and heavies will be leveled out imo.
Reign Omega BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance 449	Posted - 2014.06.17 15:43:00 - [50] - Quote Mortedeamor wrote: personally i think the heavy has to high dps its not a matter of hp as i look as the heavy like a tank in an rpg. your supposed to draw agro take dmg for the team you are a shield not a sword....but of course dust does not technically have any attack suit. (nerfed out of the equation) i would prefer a nerf to the hmg and retain high health lvls. every rpg has the same essential roles the low hp really high dps high speed high recovery rogue or scout low attack high support abilities of a healer or logi's generally have low hp tiers with high recovery high hp lower attack the role of tank draws the agro and focus's the enemies attack low speed average recovery and assault is a general all around average speed average attack average hp Unless heavies start getting "suppression assist" and "distraction bonus" for standing around taking it on the chin, I think I'd like my hmg to still kill people rather than spraying confetti in their general direction. Ppl need to toss that rpg crap right out the window. This is an fps, and the sentinel is the only stand and fight suit in the game. Would you be any more surprised that Mike Tyson knocked you out in a straight up fight? It's what he is trained to do and if you're not built for the conflict you'd better think of a handful of clever ways to trick him into making a mistake. Too many people want to rush engagements that aren't meant to be rushed. Observe the public trust. Protect the innocent. Uphold the law.

boba's fetta Dead Man's Game 687	Posted - 2014.06.17 17:46:00 - [51] - Quote Reign Omega wrote: Mortedeamor wrote: personally i think the heavy has to high dps its not a matter of hp as i look as the heavy like a tank in an rpg. your supposed to draw agro take dmg for the team you are a shield not a sword....but of course dust does not technically have any attack suit. (nerfed out of the equation) i would prefer a nerf to the hmg and retain high health lvls. every rpg has the same essential roles the low hp really high dps high speed high recovery rogue or scout low attack high support abilities of a healer or logi's generally have low hp tiers with high recovery high hp lower attack the role of tank draws the agro and focus's the enemies attack low speed average recovery and assault is a general all around average speed average attack average hp Unless heavies start getting "suppression assist" and "distraction bonus" for standing around taking it on the chin, I think I'd like my hmg to still kill people rather than spraying confetti in their general direction. Ppl need to toss that rpg crap right out the window. This is an fps, and the sentinel is the only stand and fight suit in the game. Would you be any more surprised that Mike Tyson knocked you out in a straight up fight? It's what he is trained to do and if you're not built for the conflict you'd better think of a handful of clever ways to trick him into making a mistake. Too many people want to rush engagements that aren't meant to be rushed. Edit: also in terms of drawing "aggro" pvp isn't the same as pve, I have literally no reason to focus on something that can't outright kill me. It'd be all the more reason for me to kill the logi or scout first even more so than now. as an amarr heavy i understand that the logi must die first. screw the heavy thats covering him once the logi is dead he's easy meat.
CHANCEtheChAn 0uter.Heaven 420	Posted - 2014.06.17 18:41:00 - [52] - Quote To further extend the point of sentinels with HMG being overbearing Why do you think 50% or more of the tankers left in dust are specced into sentinel with an HMG? SURELY its not to hop out before you die and kill the tank that just demolished your vehicle No, that's what swarms or a forge is for No tankers use the heavy suit just so they can survive their vehicle being blown up, now down 4-6 guys with a clip of boundless easy mode, and then call down a another triple rep madrugar This is fine if the price of said suit or HMG was set severely higher But its not I've learned to save one last bullet in my particle accelerator gunloggis just for players like milkman and duna (Who only use their heavies when in a tank from what I've seen)(no offense to Milkman, he's a great guy and all) just so when the heavies start jumping out I can blast their face off and continue on my way. But if their is more tanks on the field or I am on reload I have to move on, and when I do these players typically begin reaping my team of pub scrubs. This could easily be fixed by the pilot suit being released like it has been teased for freiken 2 years now And would still be able to be released Maybe get on it CCP? Hmm? Maybe? Maybe not? Oh yeah and also, I have profieceincy 3 HMG and about 25% of my kills come from kill stealing at 45m+ with the HMG. My longest kill with a boundless was 87m. Just because something isn't in your optimal doesn't make it any less effective at scaring away your enemy at 40m+. And yes, I do think heavies should have gotten a "suppression" assist bonus a long time ago. Hmmm. The Meta is strong with this one...
1st Lieutenant Tiberius 0uter.Heaven 1914	Posted - 2014.06.17 18:45:00 - [53] - Quote CHANCEtheChAn wrote: kills come from kill stealing at 45m+ with the HMG. My longest kill with a boundless was 87m. Any chrome heavies will know that crouching is where its at. Pretty sure I'm the only heavy in corp right now that still crouches in most of my medium range engagements. The Sinwarden of 0uter.Heaven
CHANCEtheChAn 0uter.Heaven 420	Posted - 2014.06.17 18:59:00 - [54] - Quote 1st Lieutenant Tiberius wrote: CHANCEtheChAn wrote: kills come from kill stealing at 45m+ with the HMG. My longest kill with a boundless was 87m. Any chrome heavies will know that crouching is where its at. Pretty sure I'm the only heavy in corp right now that still crouches in most of my medium range engagements. That's the thing though bro, I didn't even crouch I had a full spin up going and wasted half a clip but I wasted that starter fit strawberry Im starting to think that the HMG should be high impossible to beat cqc (1-10meters) And then its damage should start dropping off from there but the HMG have a much longer range to damage and scare people away Idk man I just hate the HMG Both using it and going against it I hate it Its too powerful to use within 45 meters for me, I just basically run through a corridor and slaughter anything without an HMG that doesn't jump over a railing And too powerful for militia and basic newbies who just started playing yesterday to just be able to mow down every person on the field in proto gear except another heavy But also I understand that heavies don't get many opportunities to get WP from equipment and such either So reducing a heavies kill power diminishes their WP takeout Bleh, so hard to decide Hmmm. The Meta is strong with this one...
Atiim NoGameNoLife 9555	Posted - 2014.06.17 19:02:00 - [55] - Quote xSivartx wrote: I've said this before. Heavies are fine stat wise, not price. My proto heavy used to cost 400k. Now it's a mere 175k. Put the prices back and heavies will be leveled out imo. The problem with balancing using an increased ISK cost is that you don't fix the actual problem (assuming there is one), you simply make it to where only a few people use them. There still wouldn't be anything stopping players with a decent amount of ISK from using (or abusing) said item. Amarrians would prefer you be faithful... I'd rather you be logical. Proud defender of Ishukone Corporation. -HAND
Baal Omniscient Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 1719	Posted - 2014.06.17 19:17:00 - [56] - Quote Pvt Numnutz wrote: Rynoceros wrote: Pvt Numnutz wrote: I think its the ability to massacre entire groups without a drawback. If a HMG takes out an entire squad, it's most likely because: 1) the HMG is a notorious Kill stealer. 2) the squad was firing at the wrong person. 3) the squad was too focused on a singular objective without watching their flanks. 4) it was probably 2 Heavies with a single Logi able to support both, which I myself admit is a ** mechanic. 5) you got Scotty'd with the team. It happens to ALL of us. 6) your team is just bad and should feel bad. Quit FPSing and grab a knitting needle. 7) happens. Actually it's just the heavy, shows up and decimates anything around it. I've watched my minmatar heavy friend do this with his basic hmg time and time again, even when drawing fire from multiple mercs. The kill feed looks like this in these situations, Heavy hmg blueberry Heavy hmg blueberry Heavy hmg blueberry Red combat rifle blueberry Heavy hmg blueberry I see this in just about every game I play. Sure sometimes its something off your list but more often then not its the entire group focusing fire on the heavy. I can typically 1v1 a Minmatar heavy within his optimum range. I have a lot of trouble with Gallente and Amarr when they run full proto or have proficiency. Caldari is kinda in the middle, it depends on the situation. This is using the ACR on my Minassault. The biggest problems I have with heavies are the fact that my ACR feels like it has the same optimum as the HMG (with half the RoF) and the fact that they can mow down 3 blues, turn to me and keep on firing. Clip size or overheat needs adjustment (only one, not both), and the optimum (perhaps effective a bit as well, but not absolute) should be pulled back a bit. The weapon needs to be reigned in on range for a weapon that does so well in CQC. TL;DR: Clip size or overheat needs adjustment, optimum and possibly effective range needs to be pulled back just a bit (5-10m). PSN ID: AlbelNox2569** Cross Atu for CPM1
CLONE117 True Pros Forever 817	Posted - 2014.06.17 19:17:00 - [57] - Quote if u stacked nothing but plates. good chance at killing quite a few. but after?. next engagement and your done for. stacked nothing but reps?. handle all the little guys and the next few pretty will. they come at u from range. or any bigger engagement. same thing. ur dead. a combo of both. better independence overall. still requires support from others. can take out a rep stacker hevy. but would most likely lose to a straight fight to a plate stacked hmg. if u have ever been required to reload your hmg during a firefight and your the only one there your screwed. unless your opponents are too scared to go near. also the short range has to be the hmg heavies greatest weakness. slow. short range dead in open areas heavy reliance on other players to survive.. arent the counters clear enough to use already?. dust 514 shall be eternal. pve for dust 514. dont worry my logis. i will protect u. unless its a scout. itd be too late
waistr DEAD-MEN-WALKING 190	Posted - 2014.06.17 20:19:00 - [58] - Quote IGÇÖd just like to voice a my perspective I run a heavy suit most of the time IGÇÖm fully skilled in both logie and heavy, but at this time I run heavy because itGÇÖs a lot more fun I rarely run proto suits, my favorite is the Dren basic or, an advanced if imp up against some good players I run a forge gun at least as much as a HMG these days much depends on the map. In close quarters IGÇÖll go hmg usually advanced, In open maps probably will use logi 1st drop uplinks in strategic places, then switch to a forge gun, trying to chase a battle around in a heavy suit is an exercise in futility, scouts and snipers will rip you to shreds If you know the map a forge gunner can have his way till he runs out of ammo, and at 75 WP per BLAP on a tank or drop ship, plus an occasional snipe on a squad that thinks they are untouchable up on the roof. you should be near the top of the leaderboard. HeavyGÇÖs are far from invincible, Scouts, nova knives, snipers, tankers with a grudge, good drop ship pilots, will all exact revenge, so tactics are everything. Game modes affect heavyGÇÖs ambush: I will usually come in forge gun 1st, anyone that brings in a tank, in that game mode deserves to get it shot out of the sky before it even hits the ground, (a pet peeve of mine), After that it is difficult to play heavy unless you have someone putting (well placed) uplinks down, the battle front ebbs and flows, and there is very good chance of spawning too far away from the battle to be anything more than a spectator as you waddle around chasing the battle. Domination: is a heavyGÇÖs forte, vehicles and close quarters, we have our options.
Reign Omega BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance 450	Posted - 2014.06.18 08:47:00 - [59] - Quote CLONE117 wrote: if u have ever been required to reload your hmg during a firefight and your the only one there your screwed. unless your opponents are too scared to go near. also the short range has to be the hmg heavies greatest weakness. slow. short range dead in open areas heavy reliance on other players to survive.. arent the counters clear enough to use already?. 4 words. Ishukone assault submachine gun. I have at least 3 or 4 kills left during a period where I should have to reload. More if I haven't had to toss my grenades out. Observe the public trust. Protect the innocent. Uphold the law.


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