DUST Search - Determining How Balanced The Heavies Are

Atiim wrote:

Ever since the Uprising 1.8 patch was deployed, there has been a lot of players saying that the Heavy Class is overpowered. While I usually enjoy a good balance discussion, I've usually dismissed these claims due to a lack of merit, and my experience with using them before Uprising 1.8. However, there have been some intresting arguments that have been presented which could indicate an imbalance with the Sentinel suit.

This however, is not meant to be me stating that I believe that the role is overpowered nor is it meant to be a confirmation that I believe that the role is balanced either. At the moment of this writing, I am impartial to the assertion.

With that in mind, there are things that I will be taking note of in my testing.

Strengths of the Heavy
Weaknesses of the Heavy
Skills (not in reference to SP) required to effectively use the Heavy
Performance in comparison to other frames of corresponding race
Performance of weapons designated to the Heavy
Difficulty of defeating the Sentinel. (Inside and outside of it's niche).

Some questions I will be asking:

How difficult is it to use the Heavy? In comparison to it's counter(s)?
How difficult is it to use the HMG when compared to similar weapons, such as conventional rifles?
How many counters does it have? Are these counters viable? If so, How?
How vital is support for the Sentinel to function?
How well does the Heavy perform 'solo' compared to other classes?
What is the probability of tactics utilized succeeding when compared to the tactics of other AP roles?

I should also note that I will not include primaries other than the ones that fall under the Heavy Weapon category, and my research of the difficulty involved with killing the Heavy will mainly involve weapons designed to counter them, such as the Shotgun and Nova Knives.

Along with that, I will also be sampling this data with Heavies who have quite a bit of experience with the role, as simply using my experience could prove to be anecdotal. I know I missed a few areas that I should be looking into, so please feel free to add any. that I've missed.

-HAND

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Atiim NoGameNoLife 9487	Posted - 2014.06.16 00:26:00 - [1] - Quote Ever since the Uprising 1.8 patch was deployed, there has been a lot of players saying that the Heavy Class is overpowered. While I usually enjoy a good balance discussion, I've usually dismissed these claims due to a lack of merit, and my experience with using them before Uprising 1.8. However, there have been some intresting arguments that have been presented which could indicate an imbalance with the Sentinel suit. This however, is not meant to be me stating that I believe that the role is overpowered nor is it meant to be a confirmation that I believe that the role is balanced either. At the moment of this writing, I am impartial to the assertion. With that in mind, there are things that I will be taking note of in my testing. Strengths of the Heavy Weaknesses of the Heavy Skills (not in reference to SP) required to effectively use the Heavy Performance in comparison to other frames of corresponding race Performance of weapons designated to the Heavy Difficulty of defeating the Sentinel. (Inside and outside of it's niche). Some questions I will be asking: How difficult is it to use the Heavy? In comparison to it's counter(s)? How difficult is it to use the HMG when compared to similar weapons, such as conventional rifles? How many counters does it have? Are these counters viable? If so, How? How vital is support for the Sentinel to function? How well does the Heavy perform 'solo' compared to other classes? What is the probability of tactics utilized succeeding when compared to the tactics of other AP roles? I should also note that I will not include primaries other than the ones that fall under the Heavy Weapon category, and my research of the difficulty involved with killing the Heavy will mainly involve weapons designed to counter them, such as the Shotgun and Nova Knives. Along with that, I will also be sampling this data with Heavies who have quite a bit of experience with the role, as simply using my experience could prove to be anecdotal. I know I missed a few areas that I should be looking into, so please feel free to add any. that I've missed. -HAND Amarrians would prefer you be faithful... I'd rather you be logical. Proud defender of Ishukone Corporation. -HAMD
Atiim NoGameNoLife 9487	Posted - 2014.06.16 00:27:00 - [2] - Quote {Reserved] Amarrians would prefer you be faithful... I'd rather you be logical. Proud defender of Ishukone Corporation. -HAMD
Izlare Lenix Last VenDetta. Dark Taboo 696	Posted - 2014.06.16 00:36:00 - [3] - Quote I think a very small reduction to the hmg's ROF and a small decrease in heavy turning speed would better balance the heavies versus other classes. But these decreases need to be small, otherwise the point of using a heavy would be diminished. Gun control is not about guns...it's about control. The only way to ensure freedom is by having the means to defend it.
Rynoceros Rise Of Old Dudes 3918	Posted - 2014.06.16 00:39:00 - [4] - Quote What is the chief generalized complaint about Heavies? "They're OP." How many of these players primarily use Scouts? How many of these players primarily use Assaults? Do the Scouts feel balanced against Medium Frames? Do Medium Frames feel balanced against Heavies? Are these complaints coming from players attempting to play outside of a suit's designed role? Why? Who the ** is Ben Affleck, and what the ** is the internet? Please nerf the turn speed. It turns too fast for its purpose. I could be so much more effective with a slower rotation speed. Unless you lock it down completely, it's going to benefit us. Do it and see what I mean, all of you dumbasses that have no idea what the *** you're talking about. PSN: The_Rynoceros Destiny beta SoonGäó Console Master Race
Scheneighnay McBob The Last of DusT. General Tso's Alliance 5289	Posted - 2014.06.16 00:48:00 - [5] - Quote -How difficult is it to use the Heavy? In comparison to it's counter(s)? Very easy. Not saying that everything else is rocket science, but all you do is plod around and shoot. -How difficult is it to use the HMG when compared to similar weapons, such as conventional rifles? Really it's just a beefed-up version of a conventional rifle. Can overheat if you're a dumbass, but generally not an issue when it happens. -How many counters does it have? Are these counters viable? If so, How? Depends on what you mean by counter. In its niche, your only hope is a shotgun or knife scout taking them by surprise. Outside of its niche, it does have a few counters, albeit none of them are your traditional assault rifle. -How vital is support for the Sentinel to function? With the recent buffs to reps, they're almost completely independent now. They just need to come across a nanohive or supply depot every now and then. -How well does the Heavy perform 'solo' compared to other classes? About in the middle. Better than assaults and logis, worse than commandos and scouts. -What is the probability of tactics utilized succeeding when compared to the tactics of other AP roles? What? I'm not too familiar with heavy tactics as I don't use them too often. Seems to me like they don't even HAVE tactics besides move forward when the time is right, or sit in a safe spot. péñpâ¦pé+pâìpââpâêpü«tÄïµºÿpüïpéÅpüäpüä pé¦pâ+pé¦pâ½pâäpâ¬pâ¦pé¦pâ¼pâ+pâêpü»sñ¬S+ïpéè
Heimdallr69 Nyain San 2559	Posted - 2014.06.16 00:50:00 - [6] - Quote The hmg range is to much that is all. Removed inappropriate content - CCP Logibro
Greasepalms Ahrendee Mercenaries 591	Posted - 2014.06.16 00:56:00 - [7] - Quote too agile. I don't mean sprint/strafe speeds, those are fine. I find that their rotation speed should be slower and in/out of vehicle transitions should be a lot slower for heavy classes as well.
Lorhak Gannarsein Legio DXIV 3564	Posted - 2014.06.16 01:00:00 - [8] - Quote McBob's got it down. HMG is easy-mode. WARNING - anecdote inbound - WARNING A friend of mine came back to dust yesterday and I spent the whole time in squad chatting with him rather than supporting; I was in an LAV AVing and roadkilling (not in that order) and he was in a 'Dren' Sentinel and an HMG and pulling 30-2, 29-3, all the while talking about how he'd forgotten about the Sentinel's craziness. CCP Rattati Best Dev AmLogi 5 GÇó AmAss 5 GÇó AmSent 4 GÇó CalScout 4 (2 days left...)
Scheneighnay McBob The Last of DusT. General Tso's Alliance 5289	Posted - 2014.06.16 01:29:00 - [9] - Quote Heimdallr69 wrote: The hmg range is to much that is all. Range doesn't seem to be the problem as much as clip size. They only have about the range of a combat rifle. péñpâ¦pé+pâìpââpâêpü«tÄïµºÿpüïpéÅpüäpüä pé¦pâ+pé¦pâ½pâäpâ¬pâ¦pé¦pâ¼pâ+pâêpü»sñ¬S+ïpéè
Pvt Numnutz Watchdoge Explosives 1492	Posted - 2014.06.16 02:34:00 - [10] - Quote Will be interesting to see what you find. I hope heavies come in and comment on this. To me the hmg is a out of proportion and kills reds in droves. When I die and look in the kill feed I see the same heavy mowing down everyone that was around me. The kill feed stacks up until there aren't any more blues for the heavy to kill. I don't think the power of the hmg is at fault, I think its the ability to massacre entire groups without a drawback. This can be done with a std hmg, after a heavy friend of mine finished off a good 3-4 enemies with his hmg I raised the point with him. While the killing power is fine perhaps the hmg should have increased heat buildup with continuous fire. Making it so they can still dispatch other frame suits as easily, but the heavy will have to consider how many he can take at once without over heating. See how it fits into your findings.

Rynoceros Rise Of Old Dudes 3921	Posted - 2014.06.16 02:54:00 - [11] - Quote Pvt Numnutz wrote: I think its the ability to massacre entire groups without a drawback. If a HMG takes out an entire squad, it's most likely because: 1) the HMG is a notorious Kill stealer. 2) the squad was firing at the wrong person. 3) the squad was too focused on a singular objective without watching their flanks. 4) it was probably 2 Heavies with a single Logi able to support both, which I myself admit is a ** mechanic. 5) you got Scotty'd with the team. It happens to ALL of us. 6) your team is just bad and should feel bad. Quit FPSing and grab a knitting needle. 7) ** happens. PSN: The_Rynoceros Destiny beta SoonGäó Console Master Race
Tectonic Fusion 1693	Posted - 2014.06.16 04:58:00 - [12] - Quote Rynoceros wrote: Pvt Numnutz wrote: I think its the ability to massacre entire groups without a drawback. If a HMG takes out an entire squad, it's most likely because: 1) the HMG is a notorious Kill stealer. 2) the squad was firing at the wrong person. 3) the squad was too focused on a singular objective without watching their flanks. 4) it was probably 2 Heavies with a single Logi able to support both, which I myself admit is a ** mechanic. 5) you got Scotty'd with the team. It happens to ALL of us. 6) your team is just bad and should feel bad. Quit FPSing and grab a knitting needle. 7) ** happens. These^
Pvt Numnutz Watchdoge Explosives 1492	Posted - 2014.06.16 05:09:00 - [13] - Quote Rynoceros wrote: Pvt Numnutz wrote: I think its the ability to massacre entire groups without a drawback. If a HMG takes out an entire squad, it's most likely because: 1) the HMG is a notorious Kill stealer. 2) the squad was firing at the wrong person. 3) the squad was too focused on a singular objective without watching their flanks. 4) it was probably 2 Heavies with a single Logi able to support both, which I myself admit is a ** mechanic. 5) you got Scotty'd with the team. It happens to ALL of us. 6) your team is just bad and should feel bad. Quit FPSing and grab a knitting needle. 7) ** happens. Actually it's just the heavy, shows up and decimates anything around it. I've watched my minmatar heavy friend do this with his basic hmg time and time again, even when drawing fire from multiple mercs. The kill feed looks like this in these situations, Heavy hmg blueberry Heavy hmg blueberry Heavy hmg blueberry Red combat rifle blueberry Heavy hmg blueberry I see this in just about every game I play. Sure sometimes its something off your list but more often then not its the entire group focusing fire on the heavy.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 1908	Posted - 2014.06.16 05:13:00 - [14] - Quote The thing that burns me up most ... We CQC Scouts used to be a viable counter to the Heavy. If we got caught, we got smashed. Still do. Totally OK with that. But if we managed to get behind a Heavy, the takedown was swift and quiet. That's the way it should be. Today, its a fcking crapshoot of chaos. Our knives only hit so hard and our shotguns only fire so fast. And that 1,500 HP / 900 DPS behemoth can pirouette in an instant. I'm not sure how best to fix the problem. But I'm sure as sht that there is a problem. Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
Xocoyol Zaraoul Superior Genetics 1993	Posted - 2014.06.16 05:15:00 - [15] - Quote Rail Rifles are also a "Hard Counter" to armor heavies at range, and Scrambler Rifles for the shield nutters. Shrugs I'll stop playing my heavy for a while and prot-bear it up in my pure 100% Caldari Suit and show random people how to kill heavies for the next few weeks (To no avail...), RE's not needed All seriousness though I'm interested in seeing how yet another heavy discussion thread goes... My question is though... What is "Balanced" to people? Do we want heavies to have a 50/50 chance against Assault and Scout suits in a standard engagement? Are heavies supposed to be equal 'Slayers" despite being grossly inferior for hacking, detection, dodging, and changing objectives, or should they be better Slayers due to their drawbacks, if so then how much is an acceptable "Edge" for the Slayer Role? Should HMGs have comparable DPS to light weapons, or more? Do we want shorter clip sizes, if so then how much, and then should we reduce the 8 second reload on them if we do? Already I'm seeing ridiculous statements in this thread such as "All heavies do is plod forward and shoot and don't use tactics" which sounds like me saying something equally absurd such as "All scouts do is uncloak and shotgun people in the back" or "All assaults do is bunnyhop and strafe." What are you balancing the heavies for, exactly? What do you want them to do, mission statement wise, compared to other suits? "You see those red dots over there? Go and shoot them until you see a +50 on the screen" - Arkena Wyrnspire
Long Evity 1590	Posted - 2014.06.16 05:33:00 - [16] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: -How difficult is it to use the Heavy? In comparison to it's counter(s)? Very easy. Not saying that everything else is rocket science, but all you do is plod around and shoot. -How difficult is it to use the HMG when compared to similar weapons, such as conventional rifles? Really it's just a beefed-up version of a conventional rifle. Can overheat if you're a dumbass, but generally not an issue when it happens. -How many counters does it have? Are these counters viable? If so, How? Depends on what you mean by counter. In its niche, your only hope is a shotgun or knife scout taking them by surprise. Outside of its niche, it does have a few counters, albeit none of them are your traditional assault rifle. -How vital is support for the Sentinel to function? With the recent buffs to reps, they're almost completely independent now. They just need to come across a nanohive or supply depot every now and then. -How well does the Heavy perform 'solo' compared to other classes? About in the middle. Better than assaults and logis, worse than commandos and scouts. -What is the probability of tactics utilized succeeding when compared to the tactics of other AP roles? What? I'm not too familiar with heavy tactics as I don't use them too often. Seems to me like they don't even HAVE tactics besides move forward when the time is right, or sit in a safe spot. I'll list these as 5 points: 1) HMG is the easiest by far, and also the most frustrating. With low range, long reload times, and over-heating that renders you useless for up to 6-8 seconds, running wild with the HMG is the easiest recipe for a free kill for your enemies. 2) Counters are as follows for weapons that enter HMG optimal: Tanks, ADS, Shotgun, RE, Nova Knife, and CR. As far as how many weapons can counter heavy - each and every single one can. Just stand 35m away. 3) Independence? Heavies could always be independent, 4 complex reps even before buffs was insane. With it - it's just more insane. But what do Reps actually do for heavies? Unless your a smart heavy who uses corners to avoid your large hitbox making you easy fodder, reps won't come into play until you've secured your spot. Stacking Reps is never a good idea with a heavy, must balance reps with plates to be effective. Only run full reps with murder taxi. 4) It's the hardest to solo in. You would think it the other way around, but with no ability to adapt to situations, the heavy is doomed in any confrontation he didn't approach into himself or was prepared for by sitting in a forced CQC position. It is not an adaptable suit to handle solo play. You must make up for the suits weaknesses and use vehicles. 5) Heavy tactics pretty much trump all others in 1v1 confrontation. If you get into HMG optimal, then all the heavy has to do is just be self-aware. No heavy should lose a 1v1 confrontation if he's where he should be. No tactic the other side can deploy (without being caught doing it by the heavy first) can honestly over-come a smart heavy without overwhelming his position. Do I think heavies are OP? ** NO. Is the HMG OP? NO!!!!!!! Anyone who thinks HMG is OP isn't playing PC much. Until I get a heavy weapon that can counter all the range weapons ***** me up - you can get used to our only real weapon being dominate in it's effective range. Also, don't forget to calculate price, Heavies cost more ISK and SP. I am not who you think I am, only but just a dream.
Xocoyol Zaraoul Superior Genetics 1994	Posted - 2014.06.16 05:35:00 - [17] - Quote Long Evity wrote: Heavies cost more ISK and SP. Actually Logies cost the most, for both. "You see those red dots over there? Go and shoot them until you see a +50 on the screen" - Arkena Wyrnspire
Miokai Zahou The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 300	Posted - 2014.06.16 05:36:00 - [18] - Quote Heavy suits and the HMG are the most balanced items of the whole damn lot and should be left alone. What is need is a look at are assault suits, shield mods, weapon tweaks (not HMG), ADS hit detection issues etc. We should be looking at the heavy suits and HMG as the base of what can be fixed for other items not looking to nerfing the heavy suits and HMG.... Although I would like them to only carry heavy weapons and a side arm and let the commandos do there job and be the ones that can carry light weapons.... Noob isn't really a status, it's the online equivalent of a 5-year old calling you a poopy fart head.
Long Evity 1590	Posted - 2014.06.16 05:40:00 - [19] - Quote Xocoyol Zaraoul wrote: Long Evity wrote: Heavies cost more ISK and SP. Actually Logies cost the most, for both. logi's also get a bigger payout thanks to all that war points. Heavy without a forge will likely not break 1k WP, where a scrub mlt logi can hit 3k just using mlt crap that may be hurting his team more then helping. I am not who you think I am, only but just a dream.
Bojo The Mighty Spaceman Drug Cartel-Uno 3826	Posted - 2014.06.16 05:43:00 - [20] - Quote I would say that Gallente and Amarr heavies are too strong of a force to be used alone. The high ceiling of Armor and the resistances of heavies in general put Gallente and Amarr far ahead of their Minmatar/Caldari brothers. But my main ***** about heavies is dat HMG I'm not resting in peace but rather wandering as a zombie in vengeance of no good reason

Vitharr Foebane Terminal Courtesy 1395	Posted - 2014.06.16 05:55:00 - [21] - Quote Bojo The Mighty wrote: I would say that Gallente and Amarr heavies are too strong of a force to be used alone. The high ceiling of Armor and the resistances of heavies in general put Gallente and Amarr far ahead of their Minmatar/Caldari brothers. But my main ***** about heavies is dat HMG You mean the fact that the 3rd lowest ranged weapon in the game is really good in its pathetic optimal.... Amarr: Sentinel V Scout V Assault IV Commando IV Logistics IV I place my faith in my God, my Empress, and my Laz0r
1st Lieutenant Tiberius 0uter.Heaven 1899	Posted - 2014.06.16 06:00:00 - [22] - Quote Less freedom of movement, they need to be Kite-able for the amount of sheer defensive and offensive capabilities they have. Everything else is fine IMO The Sinwarden of 0uter.Heaven
Lynn Beck NoGameNoLife 1830	Posted - 2014.06.16 06:00:00 - [23] - Quote I don't appreciate being downed by a Mlt heavy with a basic HMG while i'm in a Proto Minmando with a Enhanced plate and a Six Kin Cr(yea yea i deserve to die bc CR is a crutch) That 1 point makes it a little bit annoying, that my Prototype is instagibbed by the 700DPS warmachine. Yes, i want Heavy gear to be better than a rifle. No, i don't like an HMG singlehandedly winning a fight against 10 people. Yes i want the HMG to have its' niche. No i don't want the HMG to be 'grab a Basic HMG and kill all but other heavies' I shouldn't have to get my Basic sentinel with Mh-82 to kill a a-1 sentinel that has a mlt rep tool on him. That should be what my Md/Cr combo is there for to counter. Heavies shouldn't be able to just waddle into a room and -while under fire from multiple protosuits- just kill them. General John Ripper Like ALL the things!!!
1st Lieutenant Tiberius 0uter.Heaven 1899	Posted - 2014.06.16 06:03:00 - [24] - Quote Lynn Beck wrote: I don't appreciate being downed by a Mlt heavy with a basic HMG while i'm in a Proto Minmando with a Enhanced plate and a Six Kin Cr(yea yea i deserve to die bc CR is a crutch) If the heavy has to turn less than 135 degrees to fire at you then you're doing it wrong. Flank, Flux and have an exit strategy, you don't have to kill him in the first engagement. The Sinwarden of 0uter.Heaven
Appia Vibbia Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2931	Posted - 2014.06.16 06:05:00 - [25] - Quote Atiim wrote: Ever since the Uprising 1.8 patch was deployed, there has been a lot of players saying that the Heavy Class is overpowered. While I usually enjoy a good balance discussion, I've usually dismissed these claims due to a lack of merit, and my experience with using them before Uprising 1.8. However, there have been some intresting arguments that have been presented which could indicate an imbalance with the Sentinel suit. This however, is not meant to be me stating that I believe that the role is overpowered nor is it meant to be a confirmation that I believe that the role is balanced either. At the moment of this writing, I am impartial to the assertion. With that in mind, there are things that I will be taking note of in my testing. Strengths of the Heavy Weaknesses of the Heavy Skills (not in reference to SP) required to effectively use the Heavy Performance in comparison to other frames of corresponding race Performance of weapons designated to the Heavy Difficulty of defeating the Sentinel. (Inside and outside of it's niche). Some questions I will be asking: How difficult is it to use the Heavy? In comparison to it's counter(s)? How difficult is it to use the HMG when compared to similar weapons, such as conventional rifles? How many counters does it have? Are these counters viable? If so, How? How vital is support for the Sentinel to function? How well does the Heavy perform 'solo' compared to other classes? What is the probability of tactics utilized succeeding when compared to the tactics of other AP roles? I should also note that I will not include primaries other than the ones that fall under the Heavy Weapon category, and my research of the difficulty involved with killing the Heavy will mainly involve weapons designed to counter them, such as the Shotgun and Nova Knives. Along with that, I will also be sampling this data with Heavies who have quite a bit of experience with the role, as simply using my experience could prove to be anecdotal. I know I missed a few areas that I should be looking into, so please feel free to add any. that I've missed. -HAND Strengths lie in long-wide hallways like inside Fracture Road's [B] or the Research facility near [A] or [B] and in tight quarters like Orbital Artillery or inside the Communications Outpost. Weakness of the heavy are the wide open maps in between objectives. They either need transport or a Logi to accompany them or are sitting ducks. Heavy has Low entry level skill. Anyone can do fairly well with it. However it takes a good amount of skill to choose your targets when it is you vs multiple opponents and you need to be accustomed to dealing with people shooting you in the back. I'd say it shows the least difference between STD and PRO compared to the other suits because it has such ease to fit proto weapons and proto mods on the STD suit. The HMG is the only Anti-Infantry Heavy Weapon. Its got some good dispersion on it and because of that it would not do well on a Medium frame, if that were somehow possible to fit. IMO it is too unique to propperly evaluate, other than does it do better than a light weapon from within the same range. It's doing its job right now as I see it. As a stand alone suit. There's no real issue with kill it. It's a fun challenge when the Sentinel has a LogiBro. But it is extremely powerful and hard to counter when there are 2 Sentinels and a Logi working together Appia Vibbia for CPM1 AppiaVibbia(at)gmail(dot)com AKA Nappia, AKA Mathppia
Vitharr Foebane Terminal Courtesy 1395	Posted - 2014.06.16 06:05:00 - [26] - Quote 1st Lieutenant Tiberius wrote: Less freedom of movement, they need to be Kite-able for the amount of sheer defensive and offensive capabilities they have. Everything else is fine IMO 3rd lowest ranged weapon not kiteable enough? Amarr: Sentinel V Scout V Assault IV Commando IV Logistics IV I place my faith in my God, my Empress, and my Laz0r
Bojo The Mighty Spaceman Drug Cartel-Uno 3828	Posted - 2014.06.16 06:12:00 - [27] - Quote Vitharr Foebane wrote: Bojo The Mighty wrote: I would say that Gallente and Amarr heavies are too strong of a force to be used alone. The high ceiling of Armor and the resistances of heavies in general put Gallente and Amarr far ahead of their Minmatar/Caldari brothers. But my main *** about heavies is dat HMG You mean the fact that the 3rd lowest ranged weapon in the game is really good in its pathetic optimal.... Bullshit it can out DPS my AR in it's own range you don't even have time to react you are just dead if you are even at 40 meters and at 50 you gotta hustle and at 60 it's like an AR that does **** shield damage I'm not resting in peace but rather wandering as a zombie in vengeance of no good reason
Vitharr Foebane Terminal Courtesy 1396	Posted - 2014.06.16 06:17:00 - [28] - Quote Bojo The Mighty wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: Bojo The Mighty wrote: I would say that Gallente and Amarr heavies are too strong of a force to be used alone. The high ceiling of Armor and the resistances of heavies in general put Gallente and Amarr far ahead of their Minmatar/Caldari brothers. But my main *** about heavies is dat HMG You mean the fact that the 3rd lowest ranged weapon in the game is really good in its pathetic optimal.... Bullshit it can out DPS my AR in it's own range you don't even have time to react you are just dead if you are even at 40 meters and at 50 you gotta hustle and at 60 it's like an AR that does **** shield damage In order to even try to hit at that range the heavy has to ADS and crouch opening his terra sized head to be violated by any weapon but a SG... Amarr: Sentinel V Scout V Assault IV Commando IV Logistics IV I place my faith in my God, my Empress, and my Laz0r
Long Evity 1593	Posted - 2014.06.16 06:23:00 - [29] - Quote Bojo The Mighty wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: Bojo The Mighty wrote: I would say that Gallente and Amarr heavies are too strong of a force to be used alone. The high ceiling of Armor and the resistances of heavies in general put Gallente and Amarr far ahead of their Minmatar/Caldari brothers. But my main *** about heavies is dat HMG You mean the fact that the 3rd lowest ranged weapon in the game is really good in its pathetic optimal.... Bullshit it can out DPS my AR in it's own range you don't even have time to react you are just dead if you are even at 40 meters and at 50 you gotta hustle and at 60 it's like an AR that does **** shield damage Can I have whatever your having? I wish my HMG could kill at 40m. It only seems to kill people with 200EHP I am not who you think I am, only but just a dream.
Rizlax Yazzax Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 299	Posted - 2014.06.16 06:56:00 - [30] - Quote Long Evity wrote: Bojo The Mighty wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: Bojo The Mighty wrote: I would say that Gallente and Amarr heavies are too strong of a force to be used alone. The high ceiling of Armor and the resistances of heavies in general put Gallente and Amarr far ahead of their Minmatar/Caldari brothers. But my main *** about heavies is dat HMG You mean the fact that the 3rd lowest ranged weapon in the game is really good in its pathetic optimal.... Bullshit it can out DPS my AR in it's own range you don't even have time to react you are just dead if you are even at 40 meters and at 50 you gotta hustle and at 60 it's like an AR that does **** shield damage Can I have whatever your having? I wish my HMG could kill at 40m. It only seems to kill people with 200EHP This. Whenever I'm using my heavy and get kills at 30m+ it's either because there are people firing with me, or I have to empty a large portion of my ammo due to the drop-off/dispersion. Speaking as a Heavy/HMG user and a victim of it, I honestly think It's balanced. Heavies are meant to be pure powerhouses designed for slaying and taking a beating. If you try to take one on within their short range or optimal environment (corridors/enclosed spaces), then yes you will die horribly. As for the "pirouette" issue when attacking from behind, if you aren't flanking as they turn to defend themselves of course you're going to go down. They are meant to take punishment and as such sometimes require more effort than "stand and shoot in face".



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