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Talon Paetznick II Gallente Federation Resistance 13	Posted - 2014.06.12 05:49:00 - [1] - Quote I suggest a function in matchmaker select the tiers of dropsuits and weapons usable in matches i.e you can check/ uncheck militia, basic, advanced, and prototype gear in matchmaker just like you select match type in public contracts or alliance in faction warfare note it is dropsuits, weapons, and tools NOT modules dust math: getting killed by ion pistol = dropping the soap,useful item= nerfhammer, protostomp= WHY GOD!!!
Michael Arck 4675	Posted - 2014.06.12 06:05:00 - [2] - Quote Protostomp prevention 101: You squad up and blob Archistrategos *Where the fear has gone there will be nothing....only I will remain*
Atiim Heaven's Lost Property 9371	Posted - 2014.06.12 06:57:00 - [3] - Quote A better idea would simply be matchmaking via Meta Level. Basically, the system would total all of the Meta Level values from all of the items in your suit. Once it reaches a certain threshold, it would make that dropsuit an invalid fitting for the duration of the battle. That way it would be easy for the system to determine whether or not a player is simply using a great fitting, or attempting to 'protostomp'; as well as giving Meta Level a significant purpose in DUST. This is also possible server side, as it doesn't require a UI change. Simply make the matchmaking tiers by security level, and have the player cancel deployment if they have a security level that they feel is too low. Though CCP Ratati said that he would be looking into having a gamemode where players aren't able to squad up, which should alleviate some of the 'protostomping'. Amarrians would prefer you be faithful... I'd rather you be logical. -HAND
HOWDIDHEKILLME Dying to Reload 216	Posted - 2014.06.12 07:44:00 - [4] - Quote Though CCP Ratati said that he would be looking into having a gamemode where players aren't able to squad up, which should alleviate some of the 'protostomping'.[/quote] I've suggested this... I also added ( so you can still squad ) a 1 min battle bridge time, and a timer once on the bridge or leaving battle (5-10) min so people don't just leave and rejoin till there on the "right" team, or just leaving when getting beaten. I don't think proto gear is as big of a problem as organized groups of vets stomping groups of new players. Leave PC and factional for those who only want to play with those they know, for a "higher tier" of competition. Possibly increasing payout of LP to make it attractive, since every time I try to do factional I wait 5-10 minutes ( vs 15-30 sec for public ) in search before giving up and going back to a public match search. Lonewolf till I die
Michael Arck 4681	Posted - 2014.06.12 08:35:00 - [5] - Quote The truth is, even if they removed squad play from Ambush, it would do nothing to change the alleged, "protostomping" that happens. People would still get stomped. It boggles me that with any other FPS games, teamwork and working with others can be accepted, but in Dust the pub playing community somehow thinks its OP. You are suggesting that pub match shouldn't be competitive or at least, a place for a competitive atmosphere. Which is funny in itself because pubs aren't competitive anyway. I disagree with taking away squad play. Let's just be real here, the pub matches are filled with poor players. This is no different than the Salem witch trials. If they removed squad play and you still get stomped, what would be your next suggestion? Taking away proto suits? And if they did, and you still get stomped...what will be your next suggestion? Because skill is at work here. Teamwork is at play as well. If you don't commit yourself to bettering those two, you will forever get stomped. You see, people are not adapting or at least taking the effort to adapt. They constantly seek to change the game because they don't know how to take a defeat and learn from it. Archistrategos *Where the fear has gone there will be nothing....only I will remain*
Gemini Cuspid 95	Posted - 2014.06.12 09:03:00 - [6] - Quote Michael Arck wrote: The truth is, even if they removed squad play from Ambush, it would do nothing to change the alleged, "protostomping" that happens. People would still get stomped. It boggles me that with any other FPS games, teamwork and working with others can be accepted, but in Dust the pub playing community somehow thinks its OP. You are suggesting that pub match shouldn't be competitive or at least, a place for a competitive atmosphere. Which is funny in itself because pubs aren't competitive anyway. I disagree with taking away squad play. Let's just be real here, the pub matches are filled with poor players. This is no different than the Salem witch trials. If they removed squad play and you still get stomped, what would be your next suggestion? Taking away proto suits? And if they did, and you still get stomped...what will be your next suggestion? Because skill is at work here. Teamwork is at play as well. If you don't commit yourself to bettering those two, you will forever get stomped. You see, people are not adapting or at least taking the effort to adapt. They constantly seek to change the game because they don't know how to take a defeat and learn from it. I think you actually don't know why it's different in Dust versus all other FPS titles: accumulation of skill points in contrast to a lack of a level limit. If you play any other FPS title you eventually reach a "capped" state which, at that point, you can legitimately toss the "it's your skills" insult because if all players have equal access to weapons, fittings, equipment, etc while subject to the same levels, then it really tends to be an issue with skills and overall experience in the game (like where to hide, ambush, snipe from, etc). With Dust there isn't a cap, someone whose played over a year can have a significant advantage in all areas versus someone who's played in just 4 months. Without this cap it also means that players who've played the longest can maintain this advantage in all situations; even if you swap everyone to use just militia gear they still get boosts from the native armor, shields buffs along with increases in shooting range, ammo capacity and the like. That's why said "protostomping" is a more prevalent issue because as an attempt at a FPS~MMO, the lack of an upper wall limits the ability of new players to really actually get a hold of the game without dying 20 times. And I can even say when they ambush me in a 3-1 it's not even a guarantee that they can still kill me. While a cap is the easiest way to prevent this stuff, it's not feasible in a game like Dust anymore and we'd need to either do match tiering where there would be or "veteran modes" where skill points are pretty much unchanged but offer significantly higher payouts on the ISK. LIkewise anything CCP does isn't guaranteed to work; players can also enjoy being plain a@@holes and would love easier pub matches just to inflate their bloated egos.
Lunatic Kota TeamPlayers Dirt Nap Squad. 175	Posted - 2014.06.12 09:04:00 - [7] - Quote Blame proto for lack of gungame and strategy. GG If you find yourself in a fair fight, you didn't plan your mission properly. -David Hackworth
Gemini Cuspid 95	Posted - 2014.06.12 10:21:00 - [8] - Quote Lunatic Kota wrote: Blame proto for lack of gungame and strategy. GG Has very little to do with it; a lot of players running full frame proto were here since the game launched and running proto to them simply means more kills & more pots. It's basically grouping new players with the vets that leads to the protostomping and some of the fixes that CCP needs to address with how they've made changes and adjustments quickly that are coming back to bite them due to their not actually thinking about the consequences. Sure a 4 month player can run up a proto suit or a weapon and some adv. equipment. A player with 40M skill points can rack up every slot as a proto. But when you place both of them face to face, if all things are equal then it's really going to be the vet who always wins these battles. Stack them up via corps being in the same matches then it's a "stomp". That's the basic fundamental of why this game has so many problems retaining players: it's free, a new player who keeps hitting double digit deaths and very little chances of catching up even in a 8 months time frame gives them little incentive to really sit down and play the game. IF someone told me "but in 1 year you can be as good as that player" and I never played Dust or knew anything about it, I'd say "f**k that Destiny alpha is here I'll wait for Destiny'. Add on top of that "even if you catch up to that player in one year", you're comparing yourself one year later versus them now and they just may have more stuff to have fun with since that year. That's what CCP has on their place and it's going to take a massive brainstorm and effort to get a better matchmaking system in place. Also with how updates work they can do minor updates, hotfixes and additions easy. If something is a massive overhaul however they need to submit it for code issues with Sony to ensure it's compatible with everything. I don't know or have doubts on their ability to really get a matchmaking system that at least minimizes this to a more contained part of the game.
Michael Arck 4681	Posted - 2014.06.12 10:51:00 - [9] - Quote Gemini Cuspid wrote: Michael Arck wrote: The truth is, even if they removed squad play from Ambush, it would do nothing to change the alleged, "protostomping" that happens. People would still get stomped. It boggles me that with any other FPS games, teamwork and working with others can be accepted, but in Dust the pub playing community somehow thinks its OP. You are suggesting that pub match shouldn't be competitive or at least, a place for a competitive atmosphere. Which is funny in itself because pubs aren't competitive anyway. I disagree with taking away squad play. Let's just be real here, the pub matches are filled with poor players. This is no different than the Salem witch trials. If they removed squad play and you still get stomped, what would be your next suggestion? Taking away proto suits? And if they did, and you still get stomped...what will be your next suggestion? Because skill is at work here. Teamwork is at play as well. If you don't commit yourself to bettering those two, you will forever get stomped. You see, people are not adapting or at least taking the effort to adapt. They constantly seek to change the game because they don't know how to take a defeat and learn from it. I think you actually don't know why it's different in Dust versus all other FPS titles: accumulation of skill points in contrast to a lack of a level limit. If you play any other FPS title you eventually reach a "capped" state which, at that point, you can legitimately toss the "it's your skills" insult because if all players have equal access to weapons, fittings, equipment, etc while subject to the same levels, then it really tends to be an issue with skills and overall experience in the game (like where to hide, ambush, snipe from, etc). With Dust there isn't a cap, someone whose played over a year can have a significant advantage in all areas versus someone who's played in just 4 months. Without this cap it also means that players who've played the longest can maintain this advantage in all situations; even if you swap everyone to use just militia gear they still get boosts from the native armor, shields buffs along with increases in shooting range, ammo capacity and the like. That's why said "protostomping" is a more prevalent issue because as an attempt at a FPS~MMO, the lack of an upper wall limits the ability of new players to really actually get a hold of the game without dying 20 times. And I can even say when they ambush me in a 3-1 it's not even a guarantee that they can still kill me. While a cap is the easiest way to prevent this stuff, it's not feasible in a game like Dust anymore and we'd need to either do match tiering where there would be or "veteran modes" where skill points are pretty much unchanged but offer significantly higher payouts on the ISK. LIkewise anything CCP does isn't guaranteed to work; players can also enjoy being plain a@@holes and would love easier pub matches just to inflate their bloated egos. I think you just don't like my opinions and take them offensively so whatever I say, you take it as gibberish or some arrogant guy just talking out of his ass. I can tell how you respond to me. Especially since you foolishly think that the skills comment is some insult to your person. That's interesting in itself, but not worth the discussion. All that you said is good for somebody who doesn't know how to take a licking and keep on ticking. No offense, but when you say stuff like "someone who has played over a year has a significant advantage", I find it amusing that you suspect most who has played this game didn't come into this game and get protostomped. I have said this countless times on the forums. I have gotten my butt handed to me in this game when I first arrived in New Eden. I got whooped on by lasers on Manus Peak, chewing my suits to oblivion. I was frustrated for a week but I decided I didn't want the game to beat me. I enjoyed what was offered and I sought to get better. Just so happen a corporation saw my potential and took me in to teach me the ropes. That road was long and difficult but I'm a much better player now than I was then. Seems like a very long time ago when I was wet behind the ears. The many differences of Dust could take an entire discussion to elaborate on. But know this. Console gamers have not had this level of gaming in a FPS quite like Dust. This isn't about my ego for I am really a chill, nice guy who is humble. Ask anybody who has played with me and they know. So when you say crap like, ego and insult, it pisses me off because really you don't know ** about me. You just read my post and generalize about me. And honestly, I'm tired of your bullshit. The reason I say the things that I do, is to encourage players to keep on fighting. Because I've been there before and I've made it. If I can, they too. And let me say this also, the tier, IMO doesn't mean crap. A beatdown is a beatdown no matter how you spin it. If you can't learn how to fight tougher, more challenging opponents, then how can you ever get better at this game by fighting people who you can easily take advantage of? Is that a fair fight? What will you say when you realize skill defeated you and not the suit? Archistrategos Where the fear has gone there will be nothing....only I will remain**
Onesimus Tarsus Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 2086	Posted - 2014.06.12 10:55:00 - [10] - Quote Matchmaking by K/D(r) / WP/D(r). Almost every problem with the game stops. Amarr. Scout. Stop laughing!

HOWDIDHEKILLME Dying to Reload 217	Posted - 2014.06.12 10:57:00 - [11] - Quote Michael Arck wrote: Protostomp prevention 101: You squad up and blob I would love to see this proved... As a veteran during your next 10 PC battles against multiple simalarly skilled groups, convince your corp to run nothing but starter suits with only basic or milita gear, please use your best players, while encouraging opposing team to do the same and post the results. Btw this is not a troll it's a challenge. Imagine the bragging rights. Lonewolf till I die
Lorhak Gannarsein Legio DXIV 3474	Posted - 2014.06.12 11:06:00 - [12] - Quote Gemini Cuspid wrote: Michael Arck wrote: The truth is, even if they removed squad play from Ambush, it would do nothing to change the alleged, "protostomping" that happens. People would still get stomped. It boggles me that with any other FPS games, teamwork and working with others can be accepted, but in Dust the pub playing community somehow thinks its OP. You are suggesting that pub match shouldn't be competitive or at least, a place for a competitive atmosphere. Which is funny in itself because pubs aren't competitive anyway. I disagree with taking away squad play. Let's just be real here, the pub matches are filled with poor players. This is no different than the Salem witch trials. If they removed squad play and you still get stomped, what would be your next suggestion? Taking away proto suits? And if they did, and you still get stomped...what will be your next suggestion? Because skill is at work here. Teamwork is at play as well. If you don't commit yourself to bettering those two, you will forever get stomped. You see, people are not adapting or at least taking the effort to adapt. They constantly seek to change the game because they don't know how to take a defeat and learn from it. I think you actually don't know why it's different in Dust versus all other FPS titles: accumulation of skill points in contrast to a lack of a level limit. If you play any other FPS title you eventually reach a "capped" state which, at that point, you can legitimately toss the "it's your skills" insult because if all players have equal access to weapons, fittings, equipment, etc while subject to the same levels, then it really tends to be an issue with skills and overall experience in the game (like where to hide, ambush, snipe from, etc). With Dust there isn't a cap, someone whose played over a year can have a significant advantage in all areas versus someone who's played in just 4 months. Without this cap it also means that players who've played the longest can maintain this advantage in all situations; even if you swap everyone to use just militia gear they still get boosts from the native armor, shields buffs along with increases in shooting range, ammo capacity and the like. That's why said "protostomping" is a more prevalent issue because as an attempt at a FPS~MMO, the lack of an upper wall limits the ability of new players to really actually get a hold of the game without dying 20 times. And I can even say when they ambush me in a 3-1 it's not even a guarantee that they can still kill me. While a cap is the easiest way to prevent this stuff, it's not feasible in a game like Dust anymore and we'd need to either do match tiering where there would be or "veteran modes" where skill points are pretty much unchanged but offer significantly higher payouts on the ISK. LIkewise anything CCP does isn't guaranteed to work; players can also enjoy being plain a@@holes and would love easier pub matches just to inflate their bloated egos. Sometimes I disagree with Michael. This is not one of those times. An organised squad of halfway competent players nearly always beats randoms. SP gap is kind of meaningless after about 20kk; after that you should have a single role pretty well maxed. People beating you in that role is not a result of SP gap. If I am in my proto Assault, and someone with 60M SP comes up in a proto assault and bests me 1v1 there is only one reason. And it isn't the 20M SP gap. CCP Rattati Best Dev Sorry, Blowout...
TechMechMeds Inner.Hell 3559	Posted - 2014.06.12 11:08:00 - [13] - Quote There's also the fence I'm on. I CBA to be an mlt hero so I proto. Its just easier and gives me the HP to logi with less worry and I get an extra equipment slot. Not everyone can be bothered with every game they play to be a try hard, its OK to make it easier for yourself. Not everyone in proto is doing it just to be an ******** and I think you'll find that most run it so they can actually react before dying and want to chill out a bit. Iv been here a year and a half and I can tell you that today's protostompees are tomorrows protostompers. Its the circle of life in dust. I don't hear anyone whining in bf4 when I one shot them easily because my gun has Max upgrades yet there's doesn't even have a reflex sight yet. I'm not saying its ok but its not as black and white as 'they are just farming' or 'ruining our fun'. A longer academy time with opt in mentor programmes would be good. We don't have enough players to split into tiers etc. If you stop moving You die Dance with me
TechMechMeds Inner.Hell 3559	Posted - 2014.06.12 11:09:00 - [14] - Quote HOWDIDHEKILLME wrote: Michael Arck wrote: Protostomp prevention 101: You squad up and blob I would love to see this proved... As a veteran during your next 10 PC battles against multiple simalarly skilled groups, convince your corp to run nothing but starter suits with only basic or milita gear, please use your best players, while encouraging opposing team to do the same and post the results. Btw this is not a troll it's a challenge. Imagine the bragging rights. No need. Confirming now that people who want to cheap out in PC get farmed except for when they are facing newbs/noobs. You can get away with std weapons though, I run a toxin ar. If you stop moving You die Dance with me
HOWDIDHEKILLME Dying to Reload 218	Posted - 2014.06.12 11:18:00 - [15] - Quote HOWDIDHEKILLME wrote: Michael Arck wrote: Protostomp prevention 101: You squad up and blob I would love to see this proved... As a veteran during your next 10 PC battles against multiple simalarly skilled groups, convince your corp to run nothing but starter suits with only basic or milita gear, please use your best players, while encouraging opposing team to do the same and post the results. Btw this is not a troll it's a challenge. Imagine the bragging rights. I think the problem is not actually proto stomping. It's q-syncing groups of vets. It's like 16 navy seals vs. 16 high school cheerleaders...tho I bet the seals will have a blast. Lonewolf till I die
HOWDIDHEKILLME Dying to Reload 223	Posted - 2014.06.12 11:20:00 - [16] - Quote TechMechMeds wrote: HOWDIDHEKILLME wrote: Michael Arck wrote: Protostomp prevention 101: You squad up and blob I would love to see this proved... As a veteran during your next 10 PC battles against multiple simalarly skilled groups, convince your corp to run nothing but starter suits with only basic or milita gear, please use your best players, while encouraging opposing team to do the same and post the results. Btw this is not a troll it's a challenge. Imagine the bragging rights. No need. Confirming now that people who want to cheap out in PC get farmed except for when they are facing newbs/noobs. You can get away with std weapons though, I run a toxin ar. I mean full officer/proto vs. starter suits only. Vets vs. vets Lonewolf till I die
TechMechMeds Inner.Hell 3559	Posted - 2014.06.12 11:21:00 - [17] - Quote HOWDIDHEKILLME wrote: TechMechMeds wrote: HOWDIDHEKILLME wrote: Michael Arck wrote: Protostomp prevention 101: You squad up and blob I would love to see this proved... As a veteran during your next 10 PC battles against multiple simalarly skilled groups, convince your corp to run nothing but starter suits with only basic or milita gear, please use your best players, while encouraging opposing team to do the same and post the results. Btw this is not a troll it's a challenge. Imagine the bragging rights. No need. Confirming now that people who want to cheap out in PC get farmed except for when they are facing newbs/noobs. You can get away with std weapons though, I run a toxin ar. I mean full officer/proto vs. starter suits only. Vets vs. vets Yeah, done that lol. Edit: ah wait, not starter fits no. If you stop moving You die Dance with me
TechMechMeds Inner.Hell 3559	Posted - 2014.06.12 11:23:00 - [18] - Quote The proto guys would win though as HP and DPS matter more when everyone in the match is decent. If you stop moving You die Dance with me
HOWDIDHEKILLME Dying to Reload 223	Posted - 2014.06.12 11:35:00 - [19] - Quote TechMechMeds wrote: The proto guys would win though as HP and DPS matter more when everyone in the match is decent. Thats why I think it's not squading or gear that's the problem it's vets q-syncing, almost guaranteeing an imbalance. That's not competition. That's NFL vs. high school football players. Mix the teams up. Lonewolf till I die
m621 zma Seraphim Initiative.. 138	Posted - 2014.06.12 11:49:00 - [20] - Quote Talon Paetznick II wrote: I suggest a function in matchmaker select the tiers of dropsuits and weapons usable in matches i.e you can check/ uncheck militia, basic, advanced, and prototype gear in matchmaker just like you select match type in public contracts or alliance in faction warfare note it is dropsuits, weapons, and tools NOT modules At this stage it would probably be easier to just remove all proto gear/suits/modules/weapons from the game, then advanced, then standard. Then we can all run around in Militia gear. And people will still whine about being stomped

THUNDERGROOVE Fatal Absolution 913	Posted - 2014.06.12 12:30:00 - [21] - Quote Enjoy your 7v7 games if they were to split the playerbase up. This would have worked months ago when there actually was a playerbase. The Amarr scout bonus is like the old Amarr sentinel bonus. No one needed 25% reduction to overheat damage on a heavy;_;
Harpyja Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1863	Posted - 2014.06.12 14:13:00 - [22] - Quote Talon Paetznick II wrote: I suggest a function in matchmaker select the tiers of dropsuits and weapons usable in matches i.e you can check/ uncheck militia, basic, advanced, and prototype gear in matchmaker just like you select match type in public contracts or alliance in faction warfare note it is dropsuits, weapons, and tools NOT modules No, because then they will still stomp you with the same level of gear. The best matchmaking system in my opinion should involve KDR. A protostomper would have a higher KDR than someone that gets stomped, so the system can either put protostomper against protostomper or protostomper+protostompee against average players, the idea being that average KDR on both teams is almost the same. Typically someone with a higher KDR is a better player/slayer, so balancing KDRs on both teams should naturally give both teams a balanced fight. "By His light, and His will" - The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
Talon Paetznick II Gallente Federation Resistance 15	Posted - 2014.06.12 14:48:00 - [23] - Quote Atiim wrote: A better idea would simply be matchmaking via Meta Level. Basically, the system would total all of the Meta Level values from all of the items in your suit. Once it reaches a certain threshold, it would make that dropsuit an invalid fitting for the duration of the battle That way it would be easy for the system to determine whether or not a player is simply using a great fitting, or attempting to 'protostomp'; as well as giving Meta Level a significant purpose in DUST. This is also possible server side, as it doesn't require a UI change. Simply make the matchmaking tiers by security level, and have the player cancel deployment if they have a security level that they feel is too low. Though CCP Ratati said that he would be looking into having a gamemode where players aren't able to squad up, which should alleviate some of the 'protostomping'. you know what this might just work if it was that the meta level of the total equip of one team exceeded that of the other by a certain value then the team members of team in high value threshold would be given a warning and the suits exceeding meta allowed would be unusable this would improve game-play by making teams more balanced by stats rather than pre selecting players for small games based on equipment tier You might just be onto something huge for balancing dust gameplay dust math: getting killed by ion pistol = dropping the soap,useful item= nerfhammer, protostomp= WHY GOD!!!
LAVALLOIS Nash QcGOLD 190	Posted - 2014.06.12 15:37:00 - [24] - Quote Atiim wrote: Though CCP Ratati said that he would be looking into having a gamemode where players aren't able to squad up, which should alleviate some of the 'protostomping'. If thats true, then that is the best god damn thing Ive ever heard about this game. Nothing has done more damage to this game than having the squad system in Public Matches. When i want to play at a more competitive, coordinated level, ill join a Factional. if they get rid of squads for Public Matches, i guarantee that the numbers of online players is going to hit 5 digits on weekends. Not to mention people who "Well I need to be in a squad to hang out with friends" will still have Factional Warfare or PC to play.
Scheneighnay McBob The Last of DusT. General Tso's Alliance 5233	Posted - 2014.06.12 15:46:00 - [25] - Quote Tiericide is still doable with server side updates. péñpâ¦pé+pâìpââpâêpü«tÄïµºÿpüïpéÅpüäpüä pé¦pâ+pé¦pâ½pâäpâ¬pâ¦pé¦pâ¼pâ+pâêpü»sñ¬S+ïpéè
jaksol JAK darnson Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 20	Posted - 2014.06.12 19:31:00 - [26] - Quote Talon Paetznick II wrote: I suggest a function in matchmaker select the tiers of dropsuits and weapons usable in matches i.e you can check/ uncheck militia, basic, advanced, and prototype gear in matchmaker just like you select match type in public contracts or alliance in faction warfare note it is dropsuits, weapons, and tools NOT modules why tools? "Sacrifice is a choice you make. Loss is a choice made for you."
jaksol JAK darnson Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 20	Posted - 2014.06.12 19:34:00 - [27] - Quote LAVALLOIS Nash wrote: Atiim wrote: Though CCP Ratati said that he would be looking into having a gamemode where players aren't able to squad up, which should alleviate some of the 'protostomping'. If thats true, then that is the best god damn thing Ive ever heard about this game. Nothing has done more damage to this game than having the squad system in Public Matches. When i want to play at a more competitive, coordinated level, ill join a Factional. if they get rid of squads for Public Matches, i guarantee that the numbers of online players is going to hit 5 digits on weekends. Not to mention people who "Well I need to be in a squad to hang out with friends" will still have Factional Warfare or PC to play. n the squad has been around since there where only 2 game modes mby longer thou it use to only have 4 "Sacrifice is a choice you make. Loss is a choice made for you."
Onesimus Tarsus Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 2091	Posted - 2014.06.12 19:37:00 - [28] - Quote Harpyja wrote: Talon Paetznick II wrote: I suggest a function in matchmaker select the tiers of dropsuits and weapons usable in matches i.e you can check/ uncheck militia, basic, advanced, and prototype gear in matchmaker just like you select match type in public contracts or alliance in faction warfare note it is dropsuits, weapons, and tools NOT modules No, because then they will still stomp you with the same level of gear. The best matchmaking system in my opinion should involve KDR. A protostomper would have a higher KDR than someone that gets stomped, so the system can either put protostomper against protostomper or protostomper+protostompee against average players, the idea being that average KDR on both teams is almost the same. Typically someone with a higher KDR is a better player/slayer, so balancing KDRs on both teams should naturally give both teams a balanced fight. What. A. Good. Idea. I'm sorry if my signature no longer matches my earlier posts. K/Dr WP/Dr matchmaking fixes the whole game. Period.
J4yne C0bb Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 368	Posted - 2014.06.12 21:23:00 - [29] - Quote The only viable solution for protostomping from the beginning was meta-level capped matches. We have Squad Finder, we have Battle Finder, and what we needed was "Room Finder" -- a place where you could setup your own public room (or private), and set your own requirements for meta-level gear, suits, weapons, game mode, etc. Tiercide, while viable, was always going to take too long to implement the speed at CCP does things, and pure matchmaking (based on lifetime SP or WP or whatever other options were floated around) was never going to work because it's only viable when you have a big enough player base to draw matches from, and Dust never did, even in it's heyday. Meta-level capped matches were the only true solution to protostomping, which -- and this is just my personal opinion -- is what really killed Dust. Why? What I think CCP and some of our playerbase fail to realize is that the kind of gamer Dust attracts is generally older, more mature, and competitive -- and our temperament is such that we don't mind losing or getting killed consistently, so long as the playing field is equal to some extent. As a mature, reasonable adult, I don't mind getting my ass handed to me on a consistent basis if it's due to player skill, not gear. If I'm getting killed consistently because I'm getting outplayed, then I can accept that -- I try to perform better, which keeps me playing. If I'm getting killed all the time because I'm getting outgeared, and the gear/skills I need is months away from unlocking, then what was enjoyable turns into a miserable f'ing grind, and I have better things to do with my time -- and it seems like most of the noobs that tried Dust and dropped it agreed, cause our playerbase was always slowly tanking ever since 5/14, even before Legion. Most players expect to die alot during the first month or so of starting any new game, especially a competitive one -- it's expected that you're going to suck for a certain period of time until you learn the maps and unlock skills/weapons/gear. But with Dust, the gap is just too wide between noob and vet. No noob gets to be truly competitive until about 10 mil SP, which is months of playing, and very few players, even reasonable, mature ones, have the patience to stuck it out for that long. Meta-level gear capped matches were the only real way to narrow the gap between those with a limited amount of SP in core skills, and vets with 30-40 mil. IMO It was the only true solution. Dust 514... another leaf on the wind. PSN ID: B16D4mnHer0
Schecter 666 Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 43	Posted - 2014.06.12 21:27:00 - [30] - Quote Talon Paetznick II wrote: I suggest a function in matchmaker select the tiers of dropsuits and weapons usable in matches i.e you can check/ uncheck militia, basic, advanced, and prototype gear in matchmaker just like you select match type in public contracts or alliance in faction warfare note it is dropsuits, weapons, and tools NOT modules not gonna happen, n00bs being slaughtered promotes micro-transaction sales. anybody doing badly at the game is a good opportunity to monetize them. hey kid, tired of being stomped on by proto bears? don't have the SP to compete? here's something for ya.

LAVALLOIS Nash QcGOLD 192	Posted - 2014.06.13 04:20:00 - [31] - Quote jaksol JAK darnson wrote: n the squad has been around since there where only 2 game modes mby longer thou it use to only have 4 And its been hobbling along since. Its got to the point where CCP is ready to toss the entire thing out and start over under a new name on a new platform. Right now all 3 modes (Public, Faction, Planetary) allow for squads. Whats the big deal if that number is reduced to 2/3 so that Public matches can remain the casual, quick matches they are supposed to be? A proto guy vs a new player is already incredibly unbalanced. Putting 6 of those proto guys together against a bunch of random new players is a sure way to make sure the community growth gets choked off before it can really plant down some roots. If Public had no squads and everyone had to queue solo and got sorted solo, matches would be far more balanced, because those 6 proto player would now be divided into 3 on one side and 3 on the other side. People have all sorts of solutions to matchmaking, but they ignore the balance fact that you cannot evenly match groups of 6 super players with "everyone else". The only people who could possibly oppose this are those who need a squad to have any kind of success, or those who need a squad to have instant friends. Neither is worth ruining the game to appease.
LAVALLOIS Nash QcGOLD 192	Posted - 2014.06.13 04:23:00 - [32] - Quote Schecter 666 wrote: not gonna happen, n00bs being slaughtered promotes micro-transaction sales. anybody doing badly at the game is a good opportunity to monetize them. hey kid, tired of being stomped on by proto bears? don't have the SP to compete? here's something for ya. I disagree completely. When I first started playing this game, I simply though it was a big learning curve. But then when I learned that people use squads to get massive advantages, and corps were using PC welfare payments to afford constant proto in Pubs, i vowed to never spend a cent until they balanced things. And i still haven't.
Talon Paetznick II Gallente Federation Resistance 15	Posted - 2014.06.13 04:41:00 - [33] - Quote Schecter 666 wrote: Talon Paetznick II wrote: I suggest a function in matchmaker select the tiers of dropsuits and weapons usable in matches i.e you can check/ uncheck militia, basic, advanced, and prototype gear in matchmaker just like you select match type in public contracts or alliance in faction warfare note it is dropsuits, weapons, and tools NOT modules not gonna happen, n00bs being slaughtered promotes micro-transaction sales. anybody doing badly at the game is a good opportunity to monetize them. hey kid, tired of being stomped on by proto bears? don't have the SP to compete? here's something for ya. sadly you are right dust math: getting killed by ion pistol = dropping the soap,useful item= nerfhammer, protostomp= WHY GOD!!!
Atiim Heaven's Lost Property 9392	Posted - 2014.06.13 05:01:00 - [34] - Quote LAVALLOIS Nash wrote: And its been hobbling along since. Its got to the point where CCP is ready to toss the entire thing out and start over under a new name on a new platform. Right now all 3 modes (Public, Faction, Planetary) allow for squads. Whats the big deal if that number is reduced to 2/3 so that Public matches can remain the casual, quick matches they are supposed to be? A proto guy vs a new player is already incredibly unbalanced. Putting 6 of those proto guys together against a bunch of random new players is a sure way to make sure the community growth gets choked off before it can really plant down some roots. If Public had no squads and everyone had to queue solo and got sorted solo, matches would be far more balanced, because those 6 proto player would now be divided into 3 on one side and 3 on the other side. People have all sorts of solutions to matchmaking, but they ignore the balance fact that you cannot evenly match groups of 6 super players with "everyone else". The only people who could possibly oppose this are those who need a squad to have any kind of success, or those who need a squad to have instant friends. Neither is worth ruining the game to appease. The problem with removing the ability to squad up with others in public contracts is that you remove the social aspect from the game, which is what keeps the vast majority of the playerbase playing. If you could only squad up in Factional Warfare, it would cause a separation among friends simply because not everyone fights for the same Faction(s). Not to mention that it would ruin a corporation's chance to get into PC, as your players wouldn't have the 'Synergy' needed to perform well in it. as they wouldn't have as much experience playing with each-other to know their strengths and weaknesses. Not to mention, that removing the ability to squad up in public contracts doesn't change the fact that the 'proto stompers' will still be inside the public contracts, and they'd continue to do what they did while in their squad, which is 'stomp'. You seem to be under the assumption that the 6 players using PRO gear would be divided to each side, while there is actually no system which would allow that to be the case. It would be equally probable to have the 6 PRO players on the same side as it would be to have them divided evenly among teams. Taking a second look at the social aspect of DUST 514, I encourage you to visit the Rookie Training Grounds. You'll find several instructors and tutors who squad up with new players to teach them the basics of DUST 514. This, is one of the key (if not only) components in the New Player Experience. Should the ability to tutor new players be removed, you'll quickly find players who are not learning how to play DUST, and simply stagnating in terms of skill level. On a final note, what would the point of a corporation be if you cannot squad and play with your friends, and why would we even bother with communicating with one another? Your suggestion is not only based on an assumed premise, but it only serves to remove the key aspects that separate this game from other FPS titles... Social Integration Amarrians would prefer you be faithful... I'd rather you be logical. Proud defender of Ishukone Corporation. -HAMD
jaksol JAK darnson Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 21	Posted - 2014.06.13 05:49:00 - [35] - Quote Atiim wrote: LAVALLOIS Nash wrote: And its been hobbling along since. Its got to the point where CCP is ready to toss the entire thing out and start over under a new name on a new platform. Right now all 3 modes (Public, Faction, Planetary) allow for squads. Whats the big deal if that number is reduced to 2/3 so that Public matches can remain the casual, quick matches they are supposed to be? A proto guy vs a new player is already incredibly unbalanced. Putting 6 of those proto guys together against a bunch of random new players is a sure way to make sure the community growth gets choked off before it can really plant down some roots. If Public had no squads and everyone had to queue solo and got sorted solo, matches would be far more balanced, because those 6 proto player would now be divided into 3 on one side and 3 on the other side. People have all sorts of solutions to matchmaking, but they ignore the balance fact that you cannot evenly match groups of 6 super players with "everyone else". The only people who could possibly oppose this are those who need a squad to have any kind of success, or those who need a squad to have instant friends. Neither is worth ruining the game to appease. The problem with removing the ability to squad up with others in public contracts is that you remove the social aspect from the game, which is what keeps the vast majority of the playerbase playing. If you could only squad up in Factional Warfare, it would cause a separation among friends simply because not everyone fights for the same Faction(s). Not to mention that it would ruin a corporation's chance to get into PC, as your players wouldn't have the 'Synergy' needed to perform well in it. as they wouldn't have as much experience playing with each-other to know their strengths and weaknesses. Not to mention, that removing the ability to squad up in public contracts doesn't change the fact that the 'proto stompers' will still be inside the public contracts, and they'd continue to do what they did while in their squad, which is 'stomp'. You seem to be under the assumption that the 6 players using PRO gear would be divided to each side, while there is actually no system which would allow that to be the case. It would be equally probable to have the 6 PRO players on the same side as it would be to have them divided evenly among teams. Taking a second look at the social aspect of DUST 514, I encourage you to visit the Rookie Training Grounds. You'll find several instructors and tutors who squad up with new players to teach them the basics of DUST 514. This, is one of the key (if not only) components in the New Player Experience. Should the ability to tutor new players be removed, you'll quickly find players who are not learning how to play DUST, and simply stagnating in terms of skill level. On a final note, what would the point of a corporation be if you cannot squad and play with your friends, and why would we even bother with communicating with one another? Your suggestion is not only based on an assumed premise, but it only serves to remove the key aspects that separate this game from other FPS titles... Social Integration when i first joined dust the resoin i stayed is becoue i had a squad that helped me out "Sacrifice is a choice you make. Loss is a choice made for you."
Glyd Path Nec Tributis 117	Posted - 2014.06.13 12:23:00 - [36] - Quote There is no matchmaking in dust. There never has been nor will there ever be any. There is no work planned on the client. EVE Online has matchmaking in name only. In that end of new eden it is expected that everyone is going to stab you in the back anyway so what is the difference? You can choose what level of security you are willing to play in, from low security to high security. Nothing will guarantee that you are safe from eve players however. They have always been the worst in gaming history. The not approved project legion will inherite the legion of bugs from dust as dust is the basis for legion. Hit detection, map errors, crashing through the bottom of the map, heavies shooting through walls and fences, snipers sitting behind terrain that gives an orange pip but are actually not target-able ... all of this will be in project legion. The only real change will be using the star map to select low to high security for PvE play. Considering that this is the same crowd that generated the code for RDV pilots, Scottie the brain-dead AI, the 100% accurate and insanely fast auto-turrets and all the other super stellar code examples ... well, NPC bots ought to be a hoot. TL;DR: Give it a rest. There is no matchmaking in dust, there is none in EVE Online and there will not be any in project legion. Nobody at CCP cares because we ain't Legionnaires.
LAVALLOIS Nash QcGOLD 192	Posted - 2014.06.13 14:28:00 - [37] - Quote Atiim wrote: The problem with removing the ability to squad up with others in public contracts is that you remove the social aspect from the game, which is what keeps the vast majority of the playerbase playing. If you could only squad up in Factional Warfare, it would cause a separation among friends simply because not everyone fights for the same Faction(s). Not to mention that it would ruin a corporation's chance to get into PC, as your players wouldn't have the 'Synergy' needed to perform well in it. as they wouldn't have as much experience playing with each-other to know their strengths and weaknesses. I understand what you are saying, but I think its more of a theory than practical. If someone comes here for the "social aspect" (aka friends), then are they really going to put loyalty to a EVE empire on a higher priority than "social aspects"? Somehow I just dont see people saying "I cant be friends with you because you're Amarr". However, i will concede that you bring up an angle i did not consider in my original suggestion. Atiim wrote: Not to mention, that removing the ability to squad up in public contracts doesn't change the fact that the 'proto stompers' will still be inside the public contracts, and they'd continue to do what they did while in their squad, which is 'stomp'. You seem to be under the assumption that the 6 players using PRO gear would be divided to each side, while there is actually no system which would allow that to be the case. It would be equally probable to have the 6 PRO players on the same side as it would be to have them divided evenly among teams. i would rather take my chances with a system that sorts people on a 1-1 basis rather than what we have now, where you have 6 man corp squads with vast ISK backing and vehicle replacement programs, or cherry picked squads of A players from various alliances and such. The "Public Matches" description says its for "Small squads or lone mercs". Lone mercs have a tough time competing in a setting like that, and its the only mode geared for them. Atiim wrote: Taking a second look at the social aspect of DUST 514, I encourage you to visit the Rookie Training Grounds. You'll find several instructors and tutors who squad up with new players to teach them the basics of DUST 514. This, is one of the key (if not only) components in the New Player Experience. Should the ability to tutor new players be removed, you'll quickly find players who are not learning how to play DUST, and simply stagnating in terms of skill level. When i first joined, this corp im in, the leader tried to recruit me for a week. At first i really wasn't interested in the "social apsect", but he seemed sincere so I said what the heck and i joined the corp and tried squads. In the end though, i had even less fun. Squads have such an advantage on the battlefield. Im doing sniper, someone in my squad runs a scan. Boom Boom boom easy kills. Before I had to sight and lead my targets, and if they eluded me they lived. If a squad is running a scan for me, forget it, I know where you are. Or even just going around slaying. Youre walking around with 4 people, come across one and everyone unloads on him. Its not that fun. The times where we ran into 4 equally capable players who gave us a fight was really rare. The only thing my corp squads feared at the time was tanks. I dont mind winning, i dont mind losing. But winning when they odds are vastly stacked in your favor is not really playing. The math is doing the fight and you are just fulfilling a predetermined outcome. Atiim wrote: On a final note, what would the point of a corporation be if you cannot squad and play with your friends, and why would we even bother with communicating with one another? Your suggestion is not only based on an assumed premise, but it only serves to remove the key aspects that separate this game from other FPS titles... Social Integration But at what cost Atiim? Yeah, this game has a bigger "social aspect" and it pays for it with a fraction of the playerbase everyone else has. There are FPS games out there that are considered "dead", and they can still get 15,000 people online on the weekends. PS3 is a popular, ubiquitous platform, and we can only get max 5,000 on a weekend in mid June? Something is keeping people away. I get that corps have to have a purpose, but what is the point of being a merc if you cant decide your own fate? If the game forces you to be in a corp or a squad, then we aren't really mercs, were just a bunch of militia soldiers. Or at best, glorified privateers. Im also not the standard player. I dont play this game full time. I go to nightschool and when i get home at midnight, I dont feel like putting on a headset and waking everyone up with me talking to a TV. When I play on the weekends, most of the time Im just trying to kill a few hours until i go out and party. Im just playing....oh i get a few texts, so I gotta afk here and there to answer up until I get the text that says im out of here and then i just log off and go. I dont have the time and dedication to build up a social aspect. Im just saying, there should be a mode that caters to people like me who just want to have a few games and sign off. I have 11 million SP, and at any given time i have 2.5million to 3.5million unallocated. Im happy with the ADV equipment i got, im happy with the profit margins, Im happy with the level im at. I dont see why I should have to dedicate vast amounts of time, and go out of my way to talk to people all around the world, just so that I can have a balanced game.
deezy dabest Sacred Initiative of Combat Killers 605	Posted - 2014.06.13 14:41:00 - [38] - Quote Talon Paetznick II wrote: I suggest a function in matchmaker select the tiers of dropsuits and weapons usable in matches i.e you can check/ uncheck militia, basic, advanced, and prototype gear in matchmaker just like you select match type in public contracts or alliance in faction warfare note it is dropsuits, weapons, and tools NOT modules This is a terrible idea. Further dividing the player base is BAD. Also the entire concept of the game is to be able to run what you want as long as you have the SP and ISK to purchase it. Get in a squad and kill the protos, I can assure you the resulting payouts from destroying that much ISK in battle will make you happy. Laser focused in a room full of mirrors. Everything you ever wanted coming SoonGäó just keep buying boosters.
Gelhad Thremyr Quebec United 315	Posted - 2014.06.13 15:43:00 - [39] - Quote One guy I know went back to the academy last week and stayed in a blaster turrent and went 39/0. There is a slightly higher level of consciousness in pub from noobs, but not that much, most ppl, play the lone hero, dont check the status of the shield/armor in skirmishes or domination, and lastly dont check the clone count also. I lost so many games cause, all the blue had to do was retreat and let the last few bars drop on the MCC its a shame. In any cases, all those things are a lack of understanding of the game. Hell, when you check a gun, you dont even know its damage profile against armor or shield, this is how ******** the game design and ui design of this game is. Cant understand those small things like weapon ranges where not listed in the UI. I mean didnt CCP was doing games for the last 10 years ? with MMORPG stats.... With that being said, CCP did an error when they did not put LOWSEC/HIGHSEC choice and limit suit in matches, if you know your going in high threat games, you know your up against high gear with proper payout. PC is like that (by default), but pub matches are not. I dont see this happening in Dust unfortunately, because it would require coding I guess, and coding means a patch and it means extra costs for QA to release a new binary.
The Fogwoggler Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2014.06.13 15:54:00 - [40] - Quote The struggle is real.

Onesimus Tarsus Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 2095	Posted - 2014.06.13 16:52:00 - [41] - Quote The Fogwoggler wrote: The struggle is real. Nope. I'm sorry if my signature no longer matches my earlier posts. K/Dr WP/Dr matchmaking fixes the whole game. Period.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 2120	Posted - 2014.06.13 17:00:00 - [42] - Quote Talon Paetznick II wrote: I suggest a function in matchmaker select the tiers of dropsuits and weapons usable in matches i.e you can check/ uncheck militia, basic, advanced, and prototype gear in matchmaker just like you select match type in public contracts or alliance in faction warfare note it is dropsuits, weapons, and tools NOT modules Been suggested, nobody wanted it. PRO stomp prevention? Blaster tanks Oh wait, those are getting nerfed again. Nevermind, infantry wins the days. Not allowed to have effective vehicles. I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Onesimus Tarsus Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 2095	Posted - 2014.06.13 18:09:00 - [43] - Quote Onesimus Tarsus wrote: Matchmaking by K/D(r) / WP/D(r). Almost every problem with the game stops. You're kidding, right? It can't be that easy. I'm sorry if my signature no longer matches my earlier posts. K/Dr WP/Dr matchmaking fixes the whole game. Period.
Onesimus Tarsus Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 2095	Posted - 2014.06.13 18:10:00 - [44] - Quote Onesimus Tarsus wrote: Onesimus Tarsus wrote: Matchmaking by K/D(r) / WP/D(r). Almost every problem with the game stops. You're kidding, right? It can't be that easy. Just think about it. Two stats taken and people broken up into groups accordingly. I'm sorry if my signature no longer matches my earlier posts. K/Dr WP/Dr matchmaking fixes the whole game. Period.


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