DUST Search - protostomp prevention suggestion

Atiim wrote:

LAVALLOIS Nash wrote:

And its been hobbling along since. Its got to the point where CCP is ready to toss the entire thing out and start over under a new name on a new platform.

Right now all 3 modes (Public, Faction, Planetary) allow for squads. Whats the big deal if that number is reduced to 2/3 so that Public matches can remain the casual, quick matches they are supposed to be?

A proto guy vs a new player is already incredibly unbalanced. Putting 6 of those proto guys together against a bunch of random new players is a sure way to make sure the community growth gets choked off before it can really plant down some roots.

If Public had no squads and everyone had to queue solo and got sorted solo, matches would be far more balanced, because those 6 proto player would now be divided into 3 on one side and 3 on the other side. People have all sorts of solutions to matchmaking, but they ignore the balance fact that you cannot evenly match groups of 6 super players with "everyone else".

The only people who could possibly oppose this are those who need a squad to have any kind of success, or those who need a squad to have instant friends. Neither is worth ruining the game to appease.

The problem with removing the ability to squad up with others in public contracts is that you remove the social aspect from the game, which is what keeps the vast majority of the playerbase playing.

If you could only squad up in Factional Warfare, it would cause a separation among friends simply because not everyone fights for the same Faction(s). Not to mention that it would ruin a corporation's chance to get into PC, as your players wouldn't have the 'Synergy' needed to perform well in it. as they wouldn't have as much experience playing with each-other to know their strengths and weaknesses.

Not to mention, that removing the ability to squad up in public contracts doesn't change the fact that the 'proto stompers' will still be inside the public contracts, and they'd continue to do what they did while in their squad, which is 'stomp'. You seem to be under the assumption that the 6 players using PRO gear would be divided to each side, while there is actually no system which would allow that to be the case. It would be equally probable to have the 6 PRO players on the same side as it would be to have them divided evenly among teams.

Taking a second look at the social aspect of DUST 514, I encourage you to visit the Rookie Training Grounds. You'll find several instructors and tutors who squad up with new players to teach them the basics of DUST 514. This, is one of the key (if not only) components in the New Player Experience. Should the ability to tutor new players be removed, you'll quickly find players who are not learning how to play DUST, and simply stagnating in terms of skill level.

On a final note, what would the point of a corporation be if you cannot squad and play with your friends, and why would we even bother with communicating with one another? Your suggestion is not only based on an assumed premise, but it only serves to remove the key aspects that separate this game from other FPS titles...

Social Integration

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LAVALLOIS Nash QcGOLD 192	Posted - 2014.06.13 04:20:00 - [31] - Quote jaksol JAK darnson wrote: n the squad has been around since there where only 2 game modes mby longer thou it use to only have 4 And its been hobbling along since. Its got to the point where CCP is ready to toss the entire thing out and start over under a new name on a new platform. Right now all 3 modes (Public, Faction, Planetary) allow for squads. Whats the big deal if that number is reduced to 2/3 so that Public matches can remain the casual, quick matches they are supposed to be? A proto guy vs a new player is already incredibly unbalanced. Putting 6 of those proto guys together against a bunch of random new players is a sure way to make sure the community growth gets choked off before it can really plant down some roots. If Public had no squads and everyone had to queue solo and got sorted solo, matches would be far more balanced, because those 6 proto player would now be divided into 3 on one side and 3 on the other side. People have all sorts of solutions to matchmaking, but they ignore the balance fact that you cannot evenly match groups of 6 super players with "everyone else". The only people who could possibly oppose this are those who need a squad to have any kind of success, or those who need a squad to have instant friends. Neither is worth ruining the game to appease.
LAVALLOIS Nash QcGOLD 192	Posted - 2014.06.13 04:23:00 - [32] - Quote Schecter 666 wrote: not gonna happen, n00bs being slaughtered promotes micro-transaction sales. anybody doing badly at the game is a good opportunity to monetize them. hey kid, tired of being stomped on by proto bears? don't have the SP to compete? here's something for ya. I disagree completely. When I first started playing this game, I simply though it was a big learning curve. But then when I learned that people use squads to get massive advantages, and corps were using PC welfare payments to afford constant proto in Pubs, i vowed to never spend a cent until they balanced things. And i still haven't.
Talon Paetznick II Gallente Federation Resistance 15	Posted - 2014.06.13 04:41:00 - [33] - Quote Schecter 666 wrote: Talon Paetznick II wrote: I suggest a function in matchmaker select the tiers of dropsuits and weapons usable in matches i.e you can check/ uncheck militia, basic, advanced, and prototype gear in matchmaker just like you select match type in public contracts or alliance in faction warfare note it is dropsuits, weapons, and tools NOT modules not gonna happen, n00bs being slaughtered promotes micro-transaction sales. anybody doing badly at the game is a good opportunity to monetize them. hey kid, tired of being stomped on by proto bears? don't have the SP to compete? here's something for ya. sadly you are right dust math: getting killed by ion pistol = dropping the soap,useful item= nerfhammer, protostomp= WHY GOD!!!
Atiim Heaven's Lost Property 9392	Posted - 2014.06.13 05:01:00 - [34] - Quote LAVALLOIS Nash wrote: And its been hobbling along since. Its got to the point where CCP is ready to toss the entire thing out and start over under a new name on a new platform. Right now all 3 modes (Public, Faction, Planetary) allow for squads. Whats the big deal if that number is reduced to 2/3 so that Public matches can remain the casual, quick matches they are supposed to be? A proto guy vs a new player is already incredibly unbalanced. Putting 6 of those proto guys together against a bunch of random new players is a sure way to make sure the community growth gets choked off before it can really plant down some roots. If Public had no squads and everyone had to queue solo and got sorted solo, matches would be far more balanced, because those 6 proto player would now be divided into 3 on one side and 3 on the other side. People have all sorts of solutions to matchmaking, but they ignore the balance fact that you cannot evenly match groups of 6 super players with "everyone else". The only people who could possibly oppose this are those who need a squad to have any kind of success, or those who need a squad to have instant friends. Neither is worth ruining the game to appease. The problem with removing the ability to squad up with others in public contracts is that you remove the social aspect from the game, which is what keeps the vast majority of the playerbase playing. If you could only squad up in Factional Warfare, it would cause a separation among friends simply because not everyone fights for the same Faction(s). Not to mention that it would ruin a corporation's chance to get into PC, as your players wouldn't have the 'Synergy' needed to perform well in it. as they wouldn't have as much experience playing with each-other to know their strengths and weaknesses. Not to mention, that removing the ability to squad up in public contracts doesn't change the fact that the 'proto stompers' will still be inside the public contracts, and they'd continue to do what they did while in their squad, which is 'stomp'. You seem to be under the assumption that the 6 players using PRO gear would be divided to each side, while there is actually no system which would allow that to be the case. It would be equally probable to have the 6 PRO players on the same side as it would be to have them divided evenly among teams. Taking a second look at the social aspect of DUST 514, I encourage you to visit the Rookie Training Grounds. You'll find several instructors and tutors who squad up with new players to teach them the basics of DUST 514. This, is one of the key (if not only) components in the New Player Experience. Should the ability to tutor new players be removed, you'll quickly find players who are not learning how to play DUST, and simply stagnating in terms of skill level. On a final note, what would the point of a corporation be if you cannot squad and play with your friends, and why would we even bother with communicating with one another? Your suggestion is not only based on an assumed premise, but it only serves to remove the key aspects that separate this game from other FPS titles... Social Integration Amarrians would prefer you be faithful... I'd rather you be logical. Proud defender of Ishukone Corporation. -HAMD
jaksol JAK darnson Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 21	Posted - 2014.06.13 05:49:00 - [35] - Quote Atiim wrote: LAVALLOIS Nash wrote: And its been hobbling along since. Its got to the point where CCP is ready to toss the entire thing out and start over under a new name on a new platform. Right now all 3 modes (Public, Faction, Planetary) allow for squads. Whats the big deal if that number is reduced to 2/3 so that Public matches can remain the casual, quick matches they are supposed to be? A proto guy vs a new player is already incredibly unbalanced. Putting 6 of those proto guys together against a bunch of random new players is a sure way to make sure the community growth gets choked off before it can really plant down some roots. If Public had no squads and everyone had to queue solo and got sorted solo, matches would be far more balanced, because those 6 proto player would now be divided into 3 on one side and 3 on the other side. People have all sorts of solutions to matchmaking, but they ignore the balance fact that you cannot evenly match groups of 6 super players with "everyone else". The only people who could possibly oppose this are those who need a squad to have any kind of success, or those who need a squad to have instant friends. Neither is worth ruining the game to appease. The problem with removing the ability to squad up with others in public contracts is that you remove the social aspect from the game, which is what keeps the vast majority of the playerbase playing. If you could only squad up in Factional Warfare, it would cause a separation among friends simply because not everyone fights for the same Faction(s). Not to mention that it would ruin a corporation's chance to get into PC, as your players wouldn't have the 'Synergy' needed to perform well in it. as they wouldn't have as much experience playing with each-other to know their strengths and weaknesses. Not to mention, that removing the ability to squad up in public contracts doesn't change the fact that the 'proto stompers' will still be inside the public contracts, and they'd continue to do what they did while in their squad, which is 'stomp'. You seem to be under the assumption that the 6 players using PRO gear would be divided to each side, while there is actually no system which would allow that to be the case. It would be equally probable to have the 6 PRO players on the same side as it would be to have them divided evenly among teams. Taking a second look at the social aspect of DUST 514, I encourage you to visit the Rookie Training Grounds. You'll find several instructors and tutors who squad up with new players to teach them the basics of DUST 514. This, is one of the key (if not only) components in the New Player Experience. Should the ability to tutor new players be removed, you'll quickly find players who are not learning how to play DUST, and simply stagnating in terms of skill level. On a final note, what would the point of a corporation be if you cannot squad and play with your friends, and why would we even bother with communicating with one another? Your suggestion is not only based on an assumed premise, but it only serves to remove the key aspects that separate this game from other FPS titles... Social Integration when i first joined dust the resoin i stayed is becoue i had a squad that helped me out "Sacrifice is a choice you make. Loss is a choice made for you."
Glyd Path Nec Tributis 117	Posted - 2014.06.13 12:23:00 - [36] - Quote There is no matchmaking in dust. There never has been nor will there ever be any. There is no work planned on the client. EVE Online has matchmaking in name only. In that end of new eden it is expected that everyone is going to stab you in the back anyway so what is the difference? You can choose what level of security you are willing to play in, from low security to high security. Nothing will guarantee that you are safe from eve players however. They have always been the worst in gaming history. The not approved project legion will inherite the legion of bugs from dust as dust is the basis for legion. Hit detection, map errors, crashing through the bottom of the map, heavies shooting through walls and fences, snipers sitting behind terrain that gives an orange pip but are actually not target-able ... all of this will be in project legion. The only real change will be using the star map to select low to high security for PvE play. Considering that this is the same crowd that generated the code for RDV pilots, Scottie the brain-dead AI, the 100% accurate and insanely fast auto-turrets and all the other super stellar code examples ... well, NPC bots ought to be a hoot. TL;DR: Give it a rest. There is no matchmaking in dust, there is none in EVE Online and there will not be any in project legion. Nobody at CCP cares because we ain't Legionnaires.
LAVALLOIS Nash QcGOLD 192	Posted - 2014.06.13 14:28:00 - [37] - Quote Atiim wrote: The problem with removing the ability to squad up with others in public contracts is that you remove the social aspect from the game, which is what keeps the vast majority of the playerbase playing. If you could only squad up in Factional Warfare, it would cause a separation among friends simply because not everyone fights for the same Faction(s). Not to mention that it would ruin a corporation's chance to get into PC, as your players wouldn't have the 'Synergy' needed to perform well in it. as they wouldn't have as much experience playing with each-other to know their strengths and weaknesses. I understand what you are saying, but I think its more of a theory than practical. If someone comes here for the "social aspect" (aka friends), then are they really going to put loyalty to a EVE empire on a higher priority than "social aspects"? Somehow I just dont see people saying "I cant be friends with you because you're Amarr". However, i will concede that you bring up an angle i did not consider in my original suggestion. Atiim wrote: Not to mention, that removing the ability to squad up in public contracts doesn't change the fact that the 'proto stompers' will still be inside the public contracts, and they'd continue to do what they did while in their squad, which is 'stomp'. You seem to be under the assumption that the 6 players using PRO gear would be divided to each side, while there is actually no system which would allow that to be the case. It would be equally probable to have the 6 PRO players on the same side as it would be to have them divided evenly among teams. i would rather take my chances with a system that sorts people on a 1-1 basis rather than what we have now, where you have 6 man corp squads with vast ISK backing and vehicle replacement programs, or cherry picked squads of A players from various alliances and such. The "Public Matches" description says its for "Small squads or lone mercs". Lone mercs have a tough time competing in a setting like that, and its the only mode geared for them. Atiim wrote: Taking a second look at the social aspect of DUST 514, I encourage you to visit the Rookie Training Grounds. You'll find several instructors and tutors who squad up with new players to teach them the basics of DUST 514. This, is one of the key (if not only) components in the New Player Experience. Should the ability to tutor new players be removed, you'll quickly find players who are not learning how to play DUST, and simply stagnating in terms of skill level. When i first joined, this corp im in, the leader tried to recruit me for a week. At first i really wasn't interested in the "social apsect", but he seemed sincere so I said what the heck and i joined the corp and tried squads. In the end though, i had even less fun. Squads have such an advantage on the battlefield. Im doing sniper, someone in my squad runs a scan. Boom Boom boom easy kills. Before I had to sight and lead my targets, and if they eluded me they lived. If a squad is running a scan for me, forget it, I know where you are. Or even just going around slaying. Youre walking around with 4 people, come across one and everyone unloads on him. Its not that fun. The times where we ran into 4 equally capable players who gave us a fight was really rare. The only thing my corp squads feared at the time was tanks. I dont mind winning, i dont mind losing. But winning when they odds are vastly stacked in your favor is not really playing. The math is doing the fight and you are just fulfilling a predetermined outcome. Atiim wrote: On a final note, what would the point of a corporation be if you cannot squad and play with your friends, and why would we even bother with communicating with one another? Your suggestion is not only based on an assumed premise, but it only serves to remove the key aspects that separate this game from other FPS titles... Social Integration But at what cost Atiim? Yeah, this game has a bigger "social aspect" and it pays for it with a fraction of the playerbase everyone else has. There are FPS games out there that are considered "dead", and they can still get 15,000 people online on the weekends. PS3 is a popular, ubiquitous platform, and we can only get max 5,000 on a weekend in mid June? Something is keeping people away. I get that corps have to have a purpose, but what is the point of being a merc if you cant decide your own fate? If the game forces you to be in a corp or a squad, then we aren't really mercs, were just a bunch of militia soldiers. Or at best, glorified privateers. Im also not the standard player. I dont play this game full time. I go to nightschool and when i get home at midnight, I dont feel like putting on a headset and waking everyone up with me talking to a TV. When I play on the weekends, most of the time Im just trying to kill a few hours until i go out and party. Im just playing....oh i get a few texts, so I gotta afk here and there to answer up until I get the text that says im out of here and then i just log off and go. I dont have the time and dedication to build up a social aspect. Im just saying, there should be a mode that caters to people like me who just want to have a few games and sign off. I have 11 million SP, and at any given time i have 2.5million to 3.5million unallocated. Im happy with the ADV equipment i got, im happy with the profit margins, Im happy with the level im at. I dont see why I should have to dedicate vast amounts of time, and go out of my way to talk to people all around the world, just so that I can have a balanced game.
deezy dabest Sacred Initiative of Combat Killers 605	Posted - 2014.06.13 14:41:00 - [38] - Quote Talon Paetznick II wrote: I suggest a function in matchmaker select the tiers of dropsuits and weapons usable in matches i.e you can check/ uncheck militia, basic, advanced, and prototype gear in matchmaker just like you select match type in public contracts or alliance in faction warfare note it is dropsuits, weapons, and tools NOT modules This is a terrible idea. Further dividing the player base is BAD. Also the entire concept of the game is to be able to run what you want as long as you have the SP and ISK to purchase it. Get in a squad and kill the protos, I can assure you the resulting payouts from destroying that much ISK in battle will make you happy. Laser focused in a room full of mirrors. Everything you ever wanted coming SoonGäó just keep buying boosters.
Gelhad Thremyr Quebec United 315	Posted - 2014.06.13 15:43:00 - [39] - Quote One guy I know went back to the academy last week and stayed in a blaster turrent and went 39/0. There is a slightly higher level of consciousness in pub from noobs, but not that much, most ppl, play the lone hero, dont check the status of the shield/armor in skirmishes or domination, and lastly dont check the clone count also. I lost so many games cause, all the blue had to do was retreat and let the last few bars drop on the MCC its a shame. In any cases, all those things are a lack of understanding of the game. Hell, when you check a gun, you dont even know its damage profile against armor or shield, this is how ******** the game design and ui design of this game is. Cant understand those small things like weapon ranges where not listed in the UI. I mean didnt CCP was doing games for the last 10 years ? with MMORPG stats.... With that being said, CCP did an error when they did not put LOWSEC/HIGHSEC choice and limit suit in matches, if you know your going in high threat games, you know your up against high gear with proper payout. PC is like that (by default), but pub matches are not. I dont see this happening in Dust unfortunately, because it would require coding I guess, and coding means a patch and it means extra costs for QA to release a new binary.
The Fogwoggler Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2014.06.13 15:54:00 - [40] - Quote The struggle is real.

Onesimus Tarsus Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 2095	Posted - 2014.06.13 16:52:00 - [41] - Quote The Fogwoggler wrote: The struggle is real. Nope. I'm sorry if my signature no longer matches my earlier posts. K/Dr WP/Dr matchmaking fixes the whole game. Period.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 2120	Posted - 2014.06.13 17:00:00 - [42] - Quote Talon Paetznick II wrote: I suggest a function in matchmaker select the tiers of dropsuits and weapons usable in matches i.e you can check/ uncheck militia, basic, advanced, and prototype gear in matchmaker just like you select match type in public contracts or alliance in faction warfare note it is dropsuits, weapons, and tools NOT modules Been suggested, nobody wanted it. PRO stomp prevention? Blaster tanks Oh wait, those are getting nerfed again. Nevermind, infantry wins the days. Not allowed to have effective vehicles. I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Onesimus Tarsus Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 2095	Posted - 2014.06.13 18:09:00 - [43] - Quote Onesimus Tarsus wrote: Matchmaking by K/D(r) / WP/D(r). Almost every problem with the game stops. You're kidding, right? It can't be that easy. I'm sorry if my signature no longer matches my earlier posts. K/Dr WP/Dr matchmaking fixes the whole game. Period.
Onesimus Tarsus Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 2095	Posted - 2014.06.13 18:10:00 - [44] - Quote Onesimus Tarsus wrote: Onesimus Tarsus wrote: Matchmaking by K/D(r) / WP/D(r). Almost every problem with the game stops. You're kidding, right? It can't be that easy. Just think about it. Two stats taken and people broken up into groups accordingly. I'm sorry if my signature no longer matches my earlier posts. K/Dr WP/Dr matchmaking fixes the whole game. Period.


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