DUST Search - [Feedback] Rifle Changes Too Small To Be Effective (with math)

Oxskull Duncarino wrote:

CCP Rattati wrote:

Oxskull Duncarino wrote:

Aeon Amadi wrote:

CCP Rattati wrote:

A little chart I made.

Hypothetical Max dps of Rifles

Discuss.

What are the axes? They lack titles

On the Y axis number 1 is all the high RPM full auto rifles, 2 is all the lower RPM full auto rifles(breach), 3 is all the burst fire rifles, and 4 is all the semi auto rifles.

On the X axis the numbers mean gibberish to me aside from just being used to help space the circles Rattati used. Maybe Rattati can elaborate!

Circle colour is explained. Circle size from what I can see is just to differentiate between racial variants, which the colour already does.

You've been very active with the community to say the least Rattati, which is excellent, but I expected alot more than what you put since you've stated before that graphs are more your bread and butter than text data. What you've put up is exactly what I've seen first year college students hand up in reports before they've properly got to grasp with what they're doing, and I'm sure that's not your intention. My apologies in advance if I'm just interpreting the graph wrong.

Smart college students, as this is the perfect representation of the status of rifles in DUST 514 and contains all the necessary information to fix them.

Edit - Apologies for coming across as a douche. If the X-axis is range, the graph makes sense even if the reality of the damage ingame doesn't. As Harpyja said below, and many others before him, range and damage should work in inverse with each other. Shorter range more damage verses longer range less damage.

"As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 12 post(s)

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 2209	Posted - 2014.06.07 13:00:00 - [31] - Quote Oxskull Duncarino wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: A little chart I made. Hypothetical Max dps of Rifles Discuss. What are the axes? They lack titles On the Y axis number 1 is all the high RPM full auto rifles, 2 is all the lower RPM full auto rifles(breach), 3 is all the burst fire rifles, and 4 is all the semi auto rifles. On the X axis the numbers mean gibberish to me aside from just being used to help space the circles Rattati used. Maybe Rattati can elaborate! Circle colour is explained. Circle size from what I can see is just to differentiate between racial variants, which the colour already does. You've been very active with the community to say the least Rattati, which is excellent, but I expected alot more than what you put since you've stated before that graphs are more your bread and butter than text data. What you've put up is exactly what I've seen first year college students hand up in reports before they've properly got to grasp with what they're doing, and I'm sure that's not your intention. My apologies in advance if I'm just interpreting the graph wrong. Smart college students, as this is the perfect representation of the status of rifles in DUST 514 and contains all the necessary information to fix them. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Oxskull Duncarino ACME SPECIAL FORCES RISE of LEGION 574	Posted - 2014.06.07 13:11:00 - [32] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Oxskull Duncarino wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: A little chart I made. Hypothetical Max dps of Rifles Discuss. What are the axes? They lack titles On the Y axis number 1 is all the high RPM full auto rifles, 2 is all the lower RPM full auto rifles(breach), 3 is all the burst fire rifles, and 4 is all the semi auto rifles. On the X axis the numbers mean gibberish to me aside from just being used to help space the circles Rattati used. Maybe Rattati can elaborate! Circle colour is explained. Circle size from what I can see is just to differentiate between racial variants, which the colour already does. You've been very active with the community to say the least Rattati, which is excellent, but I expected alot more than what you put since you've stated before that graphs are more your bread and butter than text data. What you've put up is exactly what I've seen first year college students hand up in reports before they've properly got to grasp with what they're doing, and I'm sure that's not your intention. My apologies in advance if I'm just interpreting the graph wrong. Smart college students, as this is the perfect representation of the status of rifles in DUST 514 and contains all the necessary information to fix them. Sorry I tend to nitpick You've totally separated out the breach weapons due to the fact that the proto breach plasma rifle does less damage than the basic rail rifle so therefore your placing makes sense. But then you have the burst varient of the plasma rifle ahead of the combat rifle on the X-Axis even though it does less damage than its counterpart combat rifle. And then you have the single fire rifles overlapping even though they're in the same position as the breach, ie. the plasma variants proto does less damage than the basic scrambler. I agree that the data needed is there but is to me laid out in a very confusing manner. I'll put it down to my area of work utilising graphs differently to yours "Science has not yet taught us if madness is or is not the sublimity of the intelligence." -- Edgar Allan Poe
Harpyja Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1830	Posted - 2014.06.07 13:18:00 - [33] - Quote Why can't there just be a linear relationship between range and DPS? More range = less DPS. A rifle that outranges another rifle should not deal more or a comparable amount of DPS. Another solution would be to just add falloff for close ranges as well, like the laser rifle. That will push players to use the rifles as intended (rails at long range instead of CQC for example) while keeping their DPS, as they'll suffer outside of their intended uses. I'm just surprised that these rifles have even made it into the game when they can outrange other rifles and have comparable or more DPS. That's just a big no-no. "By His light, and His will" - The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 2210	Posted - 2014.06.07 13:48:00 - [34] - Quote Exactly, I am just trolling on a saturday evening. Forgive me. This allows us to identify and rectify the damage versus range curves, as well as normalize each path, IE strongly buff TAR's, somewhet BRAR's and BAR's, and play a little with the Assault variants. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 2210	Posted - 2014.06.07 13:50:00 - [35] - Quote Harpyja wrote: Why can't there just be a linear relationship between range and DPS? More range = less DPS. A rifle that outranges another rifle should not deal more or a comparable amount of DPS. Another solution would be to just add falloff for close ranges as well, like the laser rifle. That will push players to use the rifles as intended (rails at long range instead of CQC for example) while keeping their DPS, as they'll suffer outside of their intended uses. I'm just surprised that these rifles have even made it into the game when they can outrange other rifles and have comparable or more DPS. That's just a big no-no. We can't just assume that DPS is king, the SR has overheat and charge mechanics etc. But some variants are clearly in need of a buff and we have all known that for too long. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 2210	Posted - 2014.06.07 13:50:00 - [36] - Quote Oxskull Duncarino wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Oxskull Duncarino wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: A little chart I made. Hypothetical Max dps of Rifles Discuss. What are the axes? They lack titles On the Y axis number 1 is all the high RPM full auto rifles, 2 is all the lower RPM full auto rifles(breach), 3 is all the burst fire rifles, and 4 is all the semi auto rifles. On the X axis the numbers mean gibberish to me aside from just being used to help space the circles Rattati used. Maybe Rattati can elaborate! Circle colour is explained. Circle size from what I can see is just to differentiate between racial variants, which the colour already does. You've been very active with the community to say the least Rattati, which is excellent, but I expected alot more than what you put since you've stated before that graphs are more your bread and butter than text data. What you've put up is exactly what I've seen first year college students hand up in reports before they've properly got to grasp with what they're doing, and I'm sure that's not your intention. My apologies in advance if I'm just interpreting the graph wrong. Smart college students, as this is the perfect representation of the status of rifles in DUST 514 and contains all the necessary information to fix them. Edit - Apologies for coming across as a douche. If the X-axis is range, the graph makes sense even if the reality of the damage ingame doesn't. As Harpyja said below, and many others before him, range and damage should work in inverse with each other. Shorter range more damage verses longer range less damage. And the size of the bubbles is the dps, large bubbles high dps. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 5976	Posted - 2014.06.07 14:13:00 - [37] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Exactly, I am just trolling on a saturday evening. Forgive me. This allows us to identify and rectify the damage versus range curves, as well as normalize each path, IE strongly buff TAR's, somewhet BRAR's and BAR's, and play a little with the Assault variants. Might want to tone it down just a tad. Not trying to tell you how to live your life but the average player isn't going to derive values from 6,000 - 11,000 as range. Just saying, I'm smart enough to derive that 6,000 is (what I assume to be) 60 meters after you tell me that it's range... but at first glance it's not quite so obvious to a guy who spends his time creating and admiring graphical design more than programming and coding. EDIT: Or perhaps it's just my being used to the way things are in America. Useful Links Aeon Amadi for CPM1
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 14179	Posted - 2014.06.07 14:26:00 - [38] - Quote It seems painfully apparent along the various rows of that table that there is no DPS tradeoff for range. Also, 'theoretical maximum DPS'? I notice the burst weapons (CR and burst AR) are both treated as if there's no burst delay. I'm pretty sure there's a burst delay - looking at the SDE: Burst assault rifle: m_fBurstInterval0.08 Combat rifle: m_fBurstInterval0.06 This is also noticeable whilst using the weapons - they have a 'rhythm' to them as a result. The top row on first glance shows horrendous skew, but it's not like normal humans tap the trigger fast enough for the SCR to max out on DPS. That said, the overheat isn't really much more of a drawback than the clip size on the TAR. I'd argue that the clip size is actually more restrictive as you need to reload while the SCR can cool down for short moment before finishing off a target. The overheat allows a similar number of shots off before overheating to the TAR clip - but overheating doesn't necessarily happen if you're smart about it. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 5976	Posted - 2014.06.07 14:42:00 - [39] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: It seems painfully apparent along the various rows of that table that there is no DPS tradeoff for range. Also, 'theoretical maximum DPS'? I notice the burst weapons (CR and burst AR) are both treated as if there's no burst delay. I'm pretty sure there's a burst delay - looking at the SDE: Burst assault rifle: m_fBurstInterval0.08 Combat rifle: m_fBurstInterval0.06 This is also noticeable whilst using the weapons - they have a 'rhythm' to them as a result. The top row on first glance shows horrendous skew, but it's not like normal humans tap the trigger fast enough for the SCR to max out on DPS. That said, the overheat isn't really much more of a drawback than the clip size on the TAR. I'd argue that the clip size is actually more restrictive as you need to reload while the SCR can cool down for short moment before finishing off a target. The overheat allows a similar number of shots off before overheating to the TAR clip - but overheating doesn't necessarily happen if you're smart about it. Been preaching about this since last year. Although a more recent post sums up my thoughts: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2194365#post2194365 Useful Links Aeon Amadi for CPM1
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 14182	Posted - 2014.06.07 14:48:00 - [40] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Been preaching about this since last year. Although a more recent post sums up my thoughts: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2194365#post2194365 I'm not really a fan of the TAR and breach being the ones 'euthanised' though. If some variants have to go, I think it should be the ones that don't really have as much of a unique role. The breach is just another full-auto rifle with a different RoF:damage per shot balance. The burst isn't much different from the combat rifle other than just having worse damage/RoF - and a tweaked balance of them. The TAR, though, could actually serve a role as an ease-of-use semi-automatic. The SCR performs admirably well in the semi-automatic category but with the overheat it's a little different from what I would say is a 'normal' semi-auto. Of course, the overheat barely counts as a drawback when being compared to the TAR on account of the pitiful clip size that the TAR has, but the point still stands - if the TAR wasn't in a position where it was flat out worse than the SCR then of all the variants it has the most potential to fill its own role. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.

Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 5976	Posted - 2014.06.07 15:06:00 - [41] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Been preaching about this since last year. Although a more recent post sums up my thoughts: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2194365#post2194365 I'm not really a fan of the TAR and breach being the ones 'euthanised' though. If some variants have to go, I think it should be the ones that don't really have as much of a unique role. The breach is just another full-auto rifle with a different RoF:damage per shot balance. The burst isn't much different from the combat rifle other than just having worse damage/RoF - and a tweaked balance of them. The TAR, though, could actually serve a role as an ease-of-use semi-automatic. The SCR performs admirably well in the semi-automatic category but with the overheat it's a little different from what I would say is a 'normal' semi-auto. Of course, the overheat barely counts as a drawback when being compared to the TAR on account of the pitiful clip size that the TAR has, but the point still stands - if the TAR wasn't in a position where it was flat out worse than the SCR then of all the variants it has the most potential to fill its own role. The 'euthanized' bit was addressed later on in the thread but I'll elaborate my position a bit better so there's no further confusion. The reason I said they should be euthanized is because if we buff them, it's a long-shot that we get all three of the variants right on the first roll. It's probably going to take a few hotfixes to get them to where they're both viable and well-balanced. If there's a strong desire to keep them and people are comfortable knowing that there's a likely chance it's not going to be perfect on the first iteration, then sure - be my guest. Useful Links Aeon Amadi for CPM1

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 2215	Posted - 2014.06.07 15:36:00 - [42] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Exactly, I am just trolling on a saturday evening. Forgive me. This allows us to identify and rectify the damage versus range curves, as well as normalize each path, IE strongly buff TAR's, somewhet BRAR's and BAR's, and play a little with the Assault variants. Might want to tone it down just a tad. Not trying to tell you how to live your life but the average player isn't going to derive values from 6,000 - 11,000 as range. Just saying, I'm smart enough to derive that 6,000 is (what I assume to be) 60 meters after you tell me that it's range... but at first glance it's not quite so obvious to a guy who spends his time creating and admiring graphical design more than programming and coding. EDIT: Or perhaps it's just my being used to the way things are in America. Less about the numbers than the pattern, AR short range and RR long range, left to right, that sort of thing. How are things different in America? "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 5976	Posted - 2014.06.07 15:42:00 - [43] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Exactly, I am just trolling on a saturday evening. Forgive me. This allows us to identify and rectify the damage versus range curves, as well as normalize each path, IE strongly buff TAR's, somewhet BRAR's and BAR's, and play a little with the Assault variants. Might want to tone it down just a tad. Not trying to tell you how to live your life but the average player isn't going to derive values from 6,000 - 11,000 as range. Just saying, I'm smart enough to derive that 6,000 is (what I assume to be) 60 meters after you tell me that it's range... but at first glance it's not quite so obvious to a guy who spends his time creating and admiring graphical design more than programming and coding. EDIT: Or perhaps it's just my being used to the way things are in America. Less about the numbers than the pattern, AR short range and RR long range, left to right, that sort of thing. How are things different in America? Well, there's only a completely different system of measurement for starters, lol. Average American, at least here in the south, still measure rifle ranges in Yards. What I was trying to convey is that, at first glance, I'm not going to think of rifle ranges being measured in units of centimeters. Given the amount of confusion that was being conveyed by others in the thread, I'd say it's a pretty common trait among the player-base thus far Might not be quite as obvious as you'd think. At first it just looked like a bunch of numbers scaled from 6000-11000. Useful Links Aeon Amadi for CPM1

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 2215	Posted - 2014.06.07 15:49:00 - [44] - Quote The Unreal 3 engine is not in yards "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Oxskull Duncarino ACME SPECIAL FORCES RISE of LEGION 576	Posted - 2014.06.07 15:49:00 - [45] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Exactly, I am just trolling on a saturday evening. Forgive me. This allows us to identify and rectify the damage versus range curves, as well as normalize each path, IE strongly buff TAR's, somewhet BRAR's and BAR's, and play a little with the Assault variants. Lol, a little trolling is always good Much as it wasn't long after midday for me when I posted, my brain was still asleep when looking at the graph. My bad for jumping in both feet first While there are individual balancing characteristics of each racial weapon variant outside of their DPS, and I saw you mentioned that in one of the above posts, your graph shows the disparity that's been around for too long between each weapon path. I love running my adv. Gal. commando with a Gek38 as primary, but much as I've tried, none of the other plasma rifle variants have been of good enough use to support it in a secondary role, with non Gal. weapons becoming the better secondary even without them able to take advantage of the 10% damage bonus. The Tac and the burst would be the two that I would really like to have in a position that they would join the shotgun and plasma cannon as viable choices. Just increasing the damage of the Tac close to its equivalent scrambler rifle could be the perfect balance. The Scrambler rifle would have the very high potential DPS, large magazine, and charged shot, balanced out by its overheat function and large difference in damage multipliers for armour/shield damage. The Tac would probably need a few other tweaks after the damage increase, but should be close to being balanced with its high damage balanced by its low potential RPM, high recoil, low magazine size, shorter range, and the most view restricting scope in the game. The breach would have a total revamp though from its present state. Since it is supposed to be the Gal. attempt at copying the Cal. rail rifle, I'd give it increased damage, bad hipfire accuracy, and the same range as the Tac. I'd give it a scope too, but I know you're trying to keep the changes simple so that'd be a no go. "Science has not yet taught us if madness is or is not the sublimity of the intelligence." -- Edgar Allan Poe
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 10178	Posted - 2014.06.07 15:55:00 - [46] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: The Unreal 3 engine is not in yards So is the UE3 engine in centimeters? Because the confusion was about why you weren't using meters. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 5977	Posted - 2014.06.07 15:59:00 - [47] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: The Unreal 3 engine is not in yards Just... Nevermind, lol. Going to request that we label the axes in the future as to not cause unnecessary confusion. Still have people asking me what the axes are. Useful Links Aeon Amadi for CPM1
Oxskull Duncarino ACME SPECIAL FORCES RISE of LEGION 576	Posted - 2014.06.07 16:06:00 - [48] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Exactly, I am just trolling on a saturday evening. Forgive me. This allows us to identify and rectify the damage versus range curves, as well as normalize each path, IE strongly buff TAR's, somewhet BRAR's and BAR's, and play a little with the Assault variants. Might want to tone it down just a tad. Not trying to tell you how to live your life but the average player isn't going to derive values from 6,000 - 11,000 as range. Just saying, I'm smart enough to derive that 6,000 is (what I assume to be) 60 meters after you tell me that it's range... but at first glance it's not quite so obvious to a guy who spends his time creating and admiring graphical design more than programming and coding. EDIT: Or perhaps it's just my being used to the way things are in America. Less about the numbers than the pattern, AR short range and RR long range, left to right, that sort of thing. How are things different in America? Try this for a graph of the difference http://tinypic.com/r/4q3qfk/8 "Science has not yet taught us if madness is or is not the sublimity of the intelligence." -- Edgar Allan Poe

CCP Logibro C C P C C P Alliance 7960	Posted - 2014.06.07 16:31:00 - [49] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: The Unreal 3 engine is not in yards So is the UE3 engine in centimeters? Because the confusion was about why you weren't using meters. 100 unreal units = 1 meter in DUST, so practically yes. The reason this graph is in unreal units rather than meters is that the effective range is stored in the DB as unreal units, and this is pulling straight from there. CCP Logibro // Patron Saint of Logistics // Distributor of Nanites (a¦á_a¦á)

Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 14194	Posted - 2014.06.07 16:39:00 - [50] - Quote So the confusing graph aside, have you blues gotten any new ideas from this thread so far? You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.

CJ Martino The dyst0pian Corporation Zero-Day 0	Posted - 2014.06.07 19:08:00 - [51] - Quote Try this for a graph of the difference http://tinypic.com/r/4q3qfk/8 I don't see whats so confusing about the left side. It looks logical to me. P.S. Sorry for not posting correctly. I have lurked for months, but this is my first time saying anything.
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1466	Posted - 2014.06.07 20:31:00 - [52] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: A little chart I made. Hypothetical Max dps of Rifles Discuss. Thank you for the graph. Here is the problem with the way the rilfes currently work, which your graph perfectly illustrates. While weapons of the same type (assault, breach, tac, etc...) all have approximately the same DPS (the SCR is the exception here and it is pretty far out of whack) they do not have the same range. Sure, my proto AR has almost the same DPS as a proto ACR but the ACR has much longer effective and optimal range making it much more usuable. The same can be said when comparing the AR to the ARR or the ASCR. Why did you try to make all the weapons of one fire type have the same DPS regardless of the range they could apply that damage at? Given my druthers weapons with lower range would have a higher DPS. Fun > Realism
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1467	Posted - 2014.06.08 09:06:00 - [53] - Quote Devs, I've been digging into this a bit deeper and was wondering what range the majority of kills occur at? Fun > Realism
Velociraptor antirrhopus Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 154	Posted - 2014.06.08 09:31:00 - [54] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: How are things different in America? You don't want to know. However from an aesthetic perspective some parts are still untouched by human beings and some cities aren't that bad. Just got back from seeing the worlds biggest and most complete tyrannosaurus rex skeleton in Chicago. Anywho, rifles. I have used the Assault Rifle for my entire 9 month Dust career. Hotfix Alpha's changes have lessened the pain from when 1.8 completely obsoleted it, however... It's not enough to warrant skilling into over the CR. I've already wasted over 2 million SP on it, and if it continues to be unable to compete I will switch to another light weapon. The hotfix has encouraged me to MAYBE raise my sharpshooter from 3 to 4, but I don't think I should if I want to stay a competitive Dust player at the Planetary Conquest level. It's a weapon for Pub matches, and if you don't have anything else it's reliable on a Logi. But it's garbage for everything else still. The numbers in the OP prove that to me. My thoughts on Hotfix Alpha: First I noticed a scout running from my AR. Then a heavy. Then a COMBAT RIFLE USER. CCP +1
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1467	Posted - 2014.06.08 16:15:00 - [55] - Quote I've really been thinking about the rifle balance issue and the total lack of diversity it is causing so I've started making a spreadsheet to help visualize the problem and possible solutions. 1.8 hotfix alpha weapons stats link Take a look at the assault rifle proposal tab. I think the top graph pretty clearly shows that there is an issue with the assault type weapons, though it isn't entirely clear why the AR is so underwhelming compared to the other assault type weapons. The lower graph is my attempt at a more reasonable set of stats but I fear that it won't do enough for the AR so suggestions are very much welcome. Once we get some numbers the community is in general consensus about I'll change the OP. Fun > Realism

CCP Logibro C C P C C P Alliance 7997	Posted - 2014.06.08 21:13:00 - [56] - Quote Another thing I want to add that we're considering with the rifles is normalising the range across all the tiers. What this would mean is the standard and advanced versions of each rifle (Scrambler, Assault/Plasma, Combat, Rail) would get the same range as the prototype version. CCP Logibro // Patron Saint of Logistics // Distributor of Nanites (a¦á_a¦á)

Funkmaster Whale Whale Farm 2300	Posted - 2014.06.08 21:14:00 - [57] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: Another thing I want to add that we're considering with the rifles is normalising the range across all the tiers. What this would mean is the standard and advanced versions of each rifle (Scrambler, Assault/Plasma, Combat, Rail) would get the same range as the prototype version. Yes please. Follow me on Twitch.tv!
Grimmiers 578	Posted - 2014.06.08 21:36:00 - [58] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: Another thing I want to add that we're considering with the rifles is normalising the range across all the tiers. What this would mean is the standard and advanced versions of each rifle (Scrambler, Assault/Plasma, Combat, Rail) would get the same range as the prototype version. My exile would love that.
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1467	Posted - 2014.06.08 21:50:00 - [59] - Quote I assume that your not saying you will normalize all 'assault' type weapons only that all GAR will have the same range as the Duvolle. In that case I am all in favor of the change. No comments on my little graphs? Fun > Realism
Floyd20 Azizora L.O.T.I.S. 48	Posted - 2014.06.08 21:54:00 - [60] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: Another thing I want to add that we're considering with the rifles is normalising the range across all the tiers. What this would mean is the standard and advanced versions of each rifle (Scrambler, Assault/Plasma, Combat, Rail) would get the same range as the prototype version. that would be fun. also, when is the ar being renamed plasma rifle?



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