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[Feedback] Rifle Changes Too Small To Be Effective (with math)

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 12 post(s)

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 2119	Posted - 2014.06.05 09:39:00 - [1] - Quote I inadvertently replied to a feedback thread in GD, didn't mean to. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=164438&find=unread "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 2208	Posted - 2014.06.07 11:38:00 - [2] - Quote A little chart I made. Hypothetical Max dps of Rifles Discuss. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 2209	Posted - 2014.06.07 12:52:00 - [3] - Quote It's an IQ test as well x-axis is obviously range, and y-axis is pretty obviously just the grouping I described in my earlier post "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 2209	Posted - 2014.06.07 13:00:00 - [4] - Quote Oxskull Duncarino wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: A little chart I made. Hypothetical Max dps of Rifles Discuss. What are the axes? They lack titles On the Y axis number 1 is all the high RPM full auto rifles, 2 is all the lower RPM full auto rifles(breach), 3 is all the burst fire rifles, and 4 is all the semi auto rifles. On the X axis the numbers mean gibberish to me aside from just being used to help space the circles Rattati used. Maybe Rattati can elaborate! Circle colour is explained. Circle size from what I can see is just to differentiate between racial variants, which the colour already does. You've been very active with the community to say the least Rattati, which is excellent, but I expected alot more than what you put since you've stated before that graphs are more your bread and butter than text data. What you've put up is exactly what I've seen first year college students hand up in reports before they've properly got to grasp with what they're doing, and I'm sure that's not your intention. My apologies in advance if I'm just interpreting the graph wrong. Smart college students, as this is the perfect representation of the status of rifles in DUST 514 and contains all the necessary information to fix them. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 2210	Posted - 2014.06.07 13:48:00 - [5] - Quote Exactly, I am just trolling on a saturday evening. Forgive me. This allows us to identify and rectify the damage versus range curves, as well as normalize each path, IE strongly buff TAR's, somewhet BRAR's and BAR's, and play a little with the Assault variants. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 2210	Posted - 2014.06.07 13:50:00 - [6] - Quote Harpyja wrote: Why can't there just be a linear relationship between range and DPS? More range = less DPS. A rifle that outranges another rifle should not deal more or a comparable amount of DPS. Another solution would be to just add falloff for close ranges as well, like the laser rifle. That will push players to use the rifles as intended (rails at long range instead of CQC for example) while keeping their DPS, as they'll suffer outside of their intended uses. I'm just surprised that these rifles have even made it into the game when they can outrange other rifles and have comparable or more DPS. That's just a big no-no. We can't just assume that DPS is king, the SR has overheat and charge mechanics etc. But some variants are clearly in need of a buff and we have all known that for too long. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 2210	Posted - 2014.06.07 13:50:00 - [7] - Quote Oxskull Duncarino wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Oxskull Duncarino wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: A little chart I made. Hypothetical Max dps of Rifles Discuss. What are the axes? They lack titles On the Y axis number 1 is all the high RPM full auto rifles, 2 is all the lower RPM full auto rifles(breach), 3 is all the burst fire rifles, and 4 is all the semi auto rifles. On the X axis the numbers mean gibberish to me aside from just being used to help space the circles Rattati used. Maybe Rattati can elaborate! Circle colour is explained. Circle size from what I can see is just to differentiate between racial variants, which the colour already does. You've been very active with the community to say the least Rattati, which is excellent, but I expected alot more than what you put since you've stated before that graphs are more your bread and butter than text data. What you've put up is exactly what I've seen first year college students hand up in reports before they've properly got to grasp with what they're doing, and I'm sure that's not your intention. My apologies in advance if I'm just interpreting the graph wrong. Smart college students, as this is the perfect representation of the status of rifles in DUST 514 and contains all the necessary information to fix them. Edit - Apologies for coming across as a douche. If the X-axis is range, the graph makes sense even if the reality of the damage ingame doesn't. As Harpyja said below, and many others before him, range and damage should work in inverse with each other. Shorter range more damage verses longer range less damage. And the size of the bubbles is the dps, large bubbles high dps. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 2215	Posted - 2014.06.07 15:36:00 - [8] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Exactly, I am just trolling on a saturday evening. Forgive me. This allows us to identify and rectify the damage versus range curves, as well as normalize each path, IE strongly buff TAR's, somewhet BRAR's and BAR's, and play a little with the Assault variants. Might want to tone it down just a tad. Not trying to tell you how to live your life but the average player isn't going to derive values from 6,000 - 11,000 as range. Just saying, I'm smart enough to derive that 6,000 is (what I assume to be) 60 meters after you tell me that it's range... but at first glance it's not quite so obvious to a guy who spends his time creating and admiring graphical design more than programming and coding. EDIT: Or perhaps it's just my being used to the way things are in America. Less about the numbers than the pattern, AR short range and RR long range, left to right, that sort of thing. How are things different in America? "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 2215	Posted - 2014.06.07 15:49:00 - [9] - Quote The Unreal 3 engine is not in yards "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Logibro C C P C C P Alliance 7960	Posted - 2014.06.07 16:31:00 - [10] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: The Unreal 3 engine is not in yards So is the UE3 engine in centimeters? Because the confusion was about why you weren't using meters. 100 unreal units = 1 meter in DUST, so practically yes. The reason this graph is in unreal units rather than meters is that the effective range is stored in the DB as unreal units, and this is pulling straight from there. CCP Logibro // Patron Saint of Logistics // Distributor of Nanites (a¦á_a¦á)



CCP Logibro C C P C C P Alliance 7997	Posted - 2014.06.08 21:13:00 - [11] - Quote Another thing I want to add that we're considering with the rifles is normalising the range across all the tiers. What this would mean is the standard and advanced versions of each rifle (Scrambler, Assault/Plasma, Combat, Rail) would get the same range as the prototype version. CCP Logibro // Patron Saint of Logistics // Distributor of Nanites (a¦á_a¦á)


CCP Logibro C C P C C P Alliance 8012	Posted - 2014.06.08 22:44:00 - [12] - Quote Mobius Kaethis wrote: I assume that your not saying you will normalize all 'assault' type weapons only that all GAR will have the same range as the Duvolle. In that case I am all in favor of the change. No comments on my little graphs? Yes, all the Assault/Plasma Rifles will have the same range as the Duvolle and all the Tactical Assault/Plasma Rifles will have the same range as the Duvolle Tactical No comments yet as it's still the weekend. I'll take a look next week when I'm back in the office. SponkSponkSponk wrote: Floyd20 Azizora wrote: that would be fun. also, when is the ar being renamed plasma rifle? In legion. CCP devs have already stated that they won't be changing the name of the AR in Dust. That was the initial plan, but it's not off the table. No guarantees though. CCP Logibro // Patron Saint of Logistics // Distributor of Nanites (a¦á_a¦á)