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Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui
Dimashq and Al-Shams Troops of Al-Fil
818
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Posted - 2014.06.01 21:41:00 -
[31] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Clone D wrote:Any time there are changes to the game, it is only fair to provide the players a full respec. When offensive and defensive attributes change, it may potentially alter how a player wishes to build a character. Not providing a respec leaves people playing catch up for the next many moons. Translation: * I went CalLogi until I went GalLogi. * Last Respec, I went GalScout. * Pretty good at Scouting when I stack plates and shields. * But now there's all this nerf talk that's what it sounds like too but , why care ?
The game is dying for real now and it's just a matter of time , if he believes that with a change ... he will be more effective , then why not give him that shot ?
I mean , how long do we have anyway ?
This should have happened during 1.8 .
That was just a bad decision not to when you had vehicles for 1.7 .
He thinks he will be better then bring it , a lot will feel that way and if he's smart then he wouldn't want this ... along with the greater community , wouldn't want another one anyway and it will put this to rest and on a good note .
Why wouldn't a community member back others for the good of competition and it's not something that will make people OP , in fact it will give a greater sense of equality to the game for those who are not at least four months new .
Stop Tact Striking and come and get this Null Cannon with your GUNS you scrubs .
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Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui
Dimashq and Al-Shams Troops of Al-Fil
818
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Posted - 2014.06.01 21:47:00 -
[32] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:
Considering that Dust 514 doesnt have Respecs as a push button thing, the amount of work required for it is similar to hotfix alpha.
Release it with Hot Fix Alpha then , CCP could even make a petition and see how many would sign it if they believe that people are nagging and being unfair ... something like a vote in a sense and I'm sure that the community will be willing to wait the extra time and you can make a post asking that and see how many would sign it , if that sounds unreasonable .
I'm sure that many will sign that and wouldn't mind the time before the change .
Stop Tact Striking and come and get this Null Cannon with your GUNS you scrubs .
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Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui
Dimashq and Al-Shams Troops of Al-Fil
818
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Posted - 2014.06.01 21:50:00 -
[33] - Quote
Dear sir CPM , did you ask that question or are you one of those in disagreement of such ?
That would have been a politically correct thing to do .
Stop Tact Striking and come and get this Null Cannon with your GUNS you scrubs .
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Clone D
409
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Posted - 2014.06.01 21:58:00 -
[34] - Quote
Egonz4 wrote:No...its just because if u made abad decision then you have to live with it
I don't get people who say this. If I made a good decision based on the skill/gear bonuses at the time, and then those bonuses are changed by a "tweak" then the conditions upon which my former decision was made have been changed and therefore I should have the right to change my mind. It's like taking a 2.5% mortgage on a house and then the next month the bank begins demanding 7% interest. You might say, "hey, that wasn't the original deal!"
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
15281
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Posted - 2014.06.01 22:08:00 -
[35] - Quote
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:
Considering that Dust 514 doesnt have Respecs as a push button thing, the amount of work required for it is similar to hotfix alpha.
Release it with Hot Fix Alpha then , CCP could even make a petition and see how many would sign it if they believe that people are nagging and being unfair ... something like a vote in a sense and I'm sure that the community will be willing to wait the extra time and you can make a post asking that and see how many would sign it , if that sounds unreasonable . I'm sure that many will sign that and wouldn't mind the time before the change . Edit : It's not like the extra time wouldn't help and might just do a greater good . There were other issues that were missing from the fix list that I'm sure players would appreciate seeing being addressed . You could check the forums to see most . A lot were posted after the announcement .
Then what about hotfix beta? another reset then? Beta is going to be right on the heels of alpha with more things down the list to fix including variants shields and more.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist
\\= Advanced Gallente Logistics =// Unlocked
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General John Ripper
22108
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Posted - 2014.06.01 22:15:00 -
[36] - Quote
The only respec I want is the one for legion. When they transfer our sp over we should get a respec being as it is a completely different game.
The legend never dies.
Appia Vibbia is paying me 100m isk to tell you "Vote for appia"
Message her if u want isk too.
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Immortal John Ripper
22108
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Posted - 2014.06.01 22:15:00 -
[37] - Quote
The only respec I want is the one for legion. When they transfer our sp over we should get a respec being as it is a completely different game.
The legend never dies.
Appia Vibbia is paying me 100m isk to tell you "Vote for appia"
Message her if u want isk too.
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Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui
Dimashq and Al-Shams Troops of Al-Fil
818
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Posted - 2014.06.01 22:21:00 -
[38] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:
Then what about hotfix beta? another reset then? Beta is going to be right on the heels of alpha with more things down the list to fix including variants shields and more.
Come on IWS , your the statesman here ... work some magic , are you telling me that they couldn't use the extra time for refinement and making beta's transition easier ?
You understand the system better than your leading on and you know better .
Business works with business to make business , so get busy .
Pull this off and don't tell me that you can't because I know better .
No matter what people say about you , make this happen .
I know you could , you and the rest of the CPM's if you were all together because you know a lot in the community want this .
I'm sure something could be worked out between the CPM , Community and CCP .
It might help business .
Stop Tact Striking and come and get this Null Cannon with your GUNS you scrubs .
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Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui
Dimashq and Al-Shams Troops of Al-Fil
818
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Posted - 2014.06.01 22:27:00 -
[39] - Quote
Immortal John Ripper wrote:The only respec I want is the one for legion. When they transfer our sp over we should get a respec being as it is a completely different game. Welcome back .
Stop Tact Striking and come and get this Null Cannon with your GUNS you scrubs .
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Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui
Dimashq and Al-Shams Troops of Al-Fil
818
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Posted - 2014.06.01 22:38:00 -
[40] - Quote
Allow me to make something clear , I would just like a infantry because that's what should have happened during 1.8 .
I don't need or really want a full , I knew what I did when I reinvested back into vehicles so I can live with that .
I'm sure you know IWS , that if they gave a skill point refund then most wouldn't want another and those who do will be in the minority .
This would also serve as a reminder as well .
On the record .
Stop Tact Striking and come and get this Null Cannon with your GUNS you scrubs .
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Asha Starwind
897
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Posted - 2014.06.01 23:12:00 -
[41] - Quote
No, it's more like you purchase a supercar, and before you sign any paperwork they warn you the thing is not fully tested may not meet future Gov't regulations, purchase at your own risk. New laws are passed and the car is made street illegal and needs to be brought in and detuned.
[center][/center]
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medomai grey
WarRavens Final Resolution.
797
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Posted - 2014.06.01 23:16:00 -
[42] - Quote
Clone D wrote:Any time there are changes to the game, it is only fair to provide the players a full respec. When offensive and defensive attributes change, it may potentially alter how a player wishes to build a character. Not providing a respec leaves people playing catch up for the next many moons. ^ That's what you said, this is what I heard: "I spec'd into FotM, which is getting nerfed, and I want a re-spec so that I can spec into the next FotM without grinding for SP."
I've had my gear altered on several different occasions, most of which I did not receive a re-spec. I didn't demand re-spec, I adapted and changed to make what I had work. You'll be fine.
Medium frame EHP is not medium
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Clone D
411
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Posted - 2014.06.01 23:41:00 -
[43] - Quote
medomai grey wrote:I've had my gear altered on several different occasions, most of which I did not receive a re-spec. I didn't demand re-spec, I adapted and changed to make what I had work. You'll be fine.
I am an exceedingly versatile player with limited SP and dropsuits < 10k. I can adapt and change with the best of them, and I don't FOTM. I don't even have the cloak skill.
If you take the time to read my posts you will discover that the driving argument behind my proposal is that peeps work hard to earn their SP and skill upgrades. Those can take many months to earn. Changing those bonuses that were so tediously attained without acknowledging the effort and patience that was put into it is bunk.
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Velociraptor antirrhopus
Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation
128
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Posted - 2014.06.01 23:51:00 -
[44] - Quote
don't you bastards use this thread to try and spread your false ideal that the 1.8 respec was uncalled for
they completely reshaped all the medium suits and drastically changed the way everyone except vehicles, Gal Scouts and Amarr Sentinels play the game.
people like me who built the Min Logi around the hack speed would've been completely hung out to dry without that respec
dinosaurs for legion, oh wait i won't be playing it
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John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy
3472
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Posted - 2014.06.01 23:59:00 -
[45] - Quote
See, respecs are only warranted....
Meh, screw it. I no longer care enough to be bothered with the idiotic never ending debate on respecs.
In this case I personally prefer they use the 2 guys in a closet with a hamster wheel for power that CCP has left working on this game to give us officer LRs and (dare to dream) an Amarr map socket or AV weapon.
(The godfather of tactical logistics)
Quitting cold turkey was impossible. The forum patch is helping me kick the habit
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
15281
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Posted - 2014.06.02 00:38:00 -
[46] - Quote
Just saying Alpha is not changing the entire world neither is beta; I don't see the need for constant respecs especially with the constant hotfixes coming our way.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist
\\= Advanced Gallente Logistics =// Unlocked
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Thurak1
Psygod9
768
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Posted - 2014.06.02 00:57:00 -
[47] - Quote
The only people that even give a dam about respecs are bitter old players that dont want newbs to own them and new players that dont have millions of spare sp laying around allocated. If CCP had a dam clue respecs wouldnt mean anything in this game because there wouldnt be a FOTM but CCP releases and tweaks things without play testing so we are left in this state where there is always a FOTM and players are always aggrivated with it.
The game is in a bug fix and hotfix mode and no new content is ever expected. Heck we have no idea when or if several long standing issues will ever be corrected. The bi-weekly updates are a joke and dont even happen regularly.
I say the heck with it give us all a re-allocate button on each different skill tree and let players chase the FOTM if they want to. It doesnt matter any more. |
Arcturis Vanguard
Red Star. EoN.
125
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Posted - 2014.06.02 01:08:00 -
[48] - Quote
The scouts are not getting nerfed, they are being balanced. The tac ar was nerfed. The flaylock was nerfed. The contact grenades were nerfed.
Everything that's being hotfixed looks like they will still be viable. Players will have to tweak their suits a bit to find what will work best for their own play style. Nothing warrants a respec.
Amarr Heavy_
Amarr Assault_
Caldari Scout
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Thurak1
Psygod9
768
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Posted - 2014.06.02 01:14:00 -
[49] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Just saying Alpha is not changing the entire world neither is beta; I don't see the need for constant respecs especially with the constant hotfixes coming our way. Lol which is why we know when beta is coming out right? constant hotfixes. Prove it show me a timeline. |
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui
Dimashq and Al-Shams Troops of Al-Fil
818
|
Posted - 2014.06.02 01:53:00 -
[50] - Quote
You have two sets of mods , vehicle and drop suit .
1.7. vehicles made changes , mods were changed and vehicles were reworked so there was a refund.
1.8 infantry mods were changed , suits now race based bonus and you have full racial so there's a selection . Weapons added , equipment changed , equipment added , light suits changed with the talk of medium suit changes as well ( which we have yet to see along with incorrect stats for some suits since the patch ) and all that was given was a drop suit refund .
More scouts meant more people skilling into their core faster in an attempt to compete so that shifted the game play along with the fact that you seen more heavy activity . Along with the compartmentalization of Logi's going from role base to race base that changed the already changing effects of equipment , along with the decrease in the use of assaults due to poor role bonuses for the class and an increase in commando usage .
The whole game changed but the players have not had a true change to go along with the sudden direction of the game because just the drop suits were refunded and not full infantry , which would have eased and assisted the sudden shift .
Much more than drop suits were effected in 1.8 and what was done was partial and not even that because it was just the suits , which is like 30 percent of infantry .
Core - Biotic , shield , armor , cloak , electronics , engineering , nano's , uplinks , repair tool , hacking and scanners all effected by the changes in role to race based bonuses as well as the equipment changes .
Weapons - reduced damage ( supposedly ) , damage mod changes and weapons sidearm add on .
Equipment - reduced effectiveness , race based bonuses .. instead of role based so now all equipment is now less effective for all logi's and calls for one to play a particular race and use a particular equipment item for that item to perform .
Suits - racial additions along with changes and proposed changes .
Seems like a lot more than drop suits were effected by the 1.8 patch .
Stop Tact Striking and come and get this Null Cannon with your GUNS you scrubs .
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akira 1999
the unholy legion of darkstar DARKSTAR ARMY
77
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Posted - 2014.06.02 02:13:00 -
[51] - Quote
still no,
sorry having constant respecs does not help the game...
it jast makes fit of the month remain that.. a month.. then respec and hop the new band wagon to easy win.
no more respecs because the constant use would completely wreck what time we have with dust.
if people got them for any little fix then we would be worse then when they changed tanks, a massive use of respec of SP popped into the fit of the month.
it would finally break whats left of the idea.. this is dust, a part of the eve unuiverse... and choices have consequences.
what makes dust and eve so unique consequences for actions/decisions. |
Bethhy
Ancient Exiles. General Tso's Alliance
1946
|
Posted - 2014.06.02 02:19:00 -
[52] - Quote
Clone D wrote:Bethhy wrote:Welcome to DUST where the choices you make have weight... They just simply can't be reset because of balance tweaks or you don't like them anymore. It's like purchasing a porche and then you walk out into your garage in a week and find a Toyota Corolla. The decisions we make are based on a concept of permanence. The "tweaks" are debilitating to the point of making all prior decisions completely moot. You must not understand decision trees, causality, chaos and other related topics. Tampering even slightly with initial conditions can have a huge impact on the outcome of a match. A respec is in order when ANY tweak is applied.
It's like Purchasing a Porche for the same price as a Toyota Specifically because it's better then the toyota's everyone has, Then complaining when everyone gets their toyota upgraded for free. |
Clone D
411
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Posted - 2014.06.02 02:52:00 -
[53] - Quote
Bethhy wrote:It's like Purchasing a Porche for the same price as a Toyota Specifically because it's better then the toyota's everyone has, Then complaining when everyone gets their toyota upgraded for free and trying to explain why your Porche is worthless now that everyone has one..
Perhaps a better analogy would be purchasing the Porsche and then a week later a mechanic visits your house and installs a governor with a 45 mph limit, and he spuriously says "Enjoy!" as he departs. I wouldn't want that car any more.
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Arcturis Vanguard
Red Star. EoN.
125
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Posted - 2014.06.02 03:20:00 -
[54] - Quote
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote:You have two sets of mods , vehicle and drop suit .
1.7. vehicles made changes , mods were changed and vehicles were reworked so there was a refund.
1.8 infantry mods were changed , suits now race based bonus and you have full racial so there's a selection . Weapons added , equipment changed , equipment added , light suits changed with the talk of medium suit changes as well ( which we have yet to see along with incorrect stats for some suits since the patch ) and all that was given was a drop suit refund .
More scouts meant more people skilling into their core faster in an attempt to compete so that shifted the game play along with the fact that you seen more heavy activity . Along with the compartmentalization of Logi's going from role base to race base that changed the already changing effects of equipment , along with the decrease in the use of assaults due to poor role bonuses for the class and an increase in commando usage .
The whole game changed but the players have not had a true change to go along with the sudden direction of the game because just the drop suits were refunded and not full infantry , which would have eased and assisted the sudden shift .
Much more than drop suits were effected in 1.8 and what was done was partial and not even that because it was just the suits , which is like 30 percent of infantry .
Core - Biotic , shield , armor , cloak , electronics , engineering , nano's , uplinks , repair tool , hacking and scanners all effected by the changes in role to race based bonuses as well as the equipment changes .
Weapons - reduced damage ( supposedly ) , damage mod changes and weapons sidearm add on .
Equipment - reduced effectiveness , race based bonuses .. instead of role based so now all equipment is now less effective for all logi's and calls for one to play a particular race and use a particular equipment item for that item to perform .
Suits - racial additions along with changes and proposed changes .
Seems like a lot more than drop suits were effected by the 1.8 patch .
I am in an agreement with you that everything was directly effected with the new bonus to racial suits in 1.8.
But I am still going to disagree with a respec even a full respec. An individual, with the dropsuit command respec, could have either specced into a suit to match their equipment/weapons of preference or a suit of choice and then work on tailoring everything else to the suit while making use of previous investments.
Also, just to inform those that are unaware, there were multiple events prior to the release of 1.8 to rack up millions of sp. An individual could have saved all the accumulated sp and used that to tailor a new play style.
For those that want to discuss the new players and how much that will set them back etc, well it's their turn to experience ccps game developing philosophy. If they don't like it they can quit and they will. For the more experienced players that have been around for a few patches, well guess what. Ccp is always changing things. You invest your sp knowing that at some point it may change for better or worse.
The only thing that does suck for new players if the lack on ccps part to emphasize the importance of core skill investments before luxury items. Core skills are cpu/pg increase, armor and shield passive increases, and biotic passive. Everything else is to tailor build aka full specialization.
Amarr Heavy_
Amarr Assault_
Caldari Scout
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Sgt Kirk
Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance
5802
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Posted - 2014.06.02 18:02:00 -
[55] - Quote
Bethhy wrote:Clone D wrote:Bethhy wrote:Welcome to DUST where the choices you make have weight... They just simply can't be reset because of balance tweaks or you don't like them anymore. It's like purchasing a porche and then you walk out into your garage in a week and find a Toyota Corolla. The decisions we make are based on a concept of permanence. The "tweaks" are debilitating to the point of making all prior decisions completely moot. You must not understand decision trees, causality, chaos and other related topics. Tampering even slightly with initial conditions can have a huge impact on the outcome of a match. A respec is in order when ANY tweak is applied. It's like Purchasing a Porche for the same price as a Toyota Specifically beca Then use it's better then the toyota's everyone has, Then complaining when everyone gets their toyota upgraded for free and trying to explain why your Porche is worthless now that everyone has one.. Let me tell you what it's really like.
It's like specing into a weapon that wasn't overpowered to begin with then CCP releases two more weapons that completely overshadow it while also nerfing the old weapon.
Then you have to decide whether to stick with this ****** weapon that does no good and even scrubs can kill you because they use the OP FoTM and you're stuck with this **** weapon. You think, at the most a month you have to put up with this, but no. The weapon remains to be **** for months and months, leaving you with the choice of hating this game because you're stuck with the weapons you want to play and are **** or spec into the FoTM that will in turn get nerfed and waste your SP and then Spend it on the Next FoTM and so on with the response of, "your choices matter hur der". That's exactly what it's like.
This game has no room for permanent choices when the devs themselves decided to respec into the PC.
It was nice knowing you guys.
But I'm done with DUST. So long guys, it's been an interesting Journey.
Sgt Kirk, out.
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Piraten Hovnoret
Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance
604
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Posted - 2014.06.02 18:09:00 -
[56] - Quote
LOL news flash GAME IS DEAD
so get over it
War never changes
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Lloyd Orfay
Fantom Company
11
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Posted - 2014.06.02 18:36:00 -
[57] - Quote
Piraten Hovnoret wrote:LOL news flash GAME IS DEAD
so get over it
But why does the game have to be dead? It can still go as it is very potentialous, though it needs a proper updating more generally affected by the community.
Why make a game and just up and quit when you've already gotten started and could do much, much better? "LELGAM'SDEED" Doesn't make games, work does. Even if a game doesn't meet a developer's expectation it can still be worked around for people to enjoy it, which making profit and entertainment.
If I can't kill an enemy, I'll just use my heaps of dead clones!
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Dexter307
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
1588
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Posted - 2014.06.02 18:39:00 -
[58] - Quote
Clone D wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:No. Before 1.8, I had completely speced into SCP. It was the only weapon I cared about and liked using. The SCP nerf in 1.8 ruined the game for me to the point that I quit playing for a while. I am still catching up on that nerf, and have barely started specing into the next weapon. It will take me many many months to catch up. When CCP arbitrarily tweaks things it causes players to lose a LOT of time that they had spent EARNING a skill. Then when all of that effort is wasted, people get pissed off. The least courtesy would be to acknowledge the neutering and grant a respec, so I reject your terse "No." WTF? The SCP is still the best sidearm. L2P
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Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui
Dimashq and Al-Shams Troops of Al-Fil
818
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Posted - 2014.06.02 18:41:00 -
[59] - Quote
Sgt Kirk wrote:
This game has no room for permanent choices when the devs themselves decided to respec into the PC.
It's not even that but the fact that you have community members still stuck in the ignorance of bias from not having the chance in their EVE careers so they hate the fact that this is even a discussion in a Dust Community ,
you have dust players who have massive amounts of ISK's and SP 's who don't want to redistribute their skill points back into the same skills ( which I'm sure that some changes will be made by most ) and have the games base more balanced so their competition will become harder and they just don't like the idea of a better and more diverse competitive field .
You have management that really don't see how this will help and increase business during the final moments of this game and perhaps convert some console gamers into PC gamers from the management and handling of the final moments .This is the saddest part of all of this is the fact that a business , who in actions that were snide and disrespectful can care less about the same people who they offer sales and events ... still until the eventual end of the game but choose to do any and everything to continue to handcuff and demoralize that same community .
Money and players time which keep stock options steady is alright but their opinions mean nothing .
I just can not understand why Dust members of the community and not those of you who favor EVE because most of you could care less about this game and are the majority of those who applauded CCP's decision on legion and continued to demoralizing the console community ... I can't understand how these same people could not back the efforts of those who are attempting to get the " Community " something that should have happened for the " Community " during the drop of the 1.8 patch .
How would this , if done ... would harm the game and the community more than help it ..???... and save that lame @$$ FOTM conversation because if that's the case then nothing will stop these same players from acquiring that and more than likely , it's those with a pool of unallocated skill points that will speck into the " next FOTM " to begin with anyway .
If anything this would increase the level of competition and the playing field .
Hell , no one would be able to cry about FOTM because more would be able to obtain it .
I don't and could care less , I just would like to have done what should have been done to begin with and not something partial , regardless of the fact that they had events before and still do now , that's to make up for a bad decision and they know and knew that there were more in the community who feel slighted for not having a full infantry refund .
It was to keep players like such ... still interested in the game .
Can't keep using CCP not caring about the game as an excuse if as a community you can do something about it .
If they see it's important to you .. most of you and not a few , then they would see how important it is .
I would like my last moments of playing this game to be enjoyable and ( decisions that helped to compete in a much more limited gaming environment ) regret free .
Stop Tact Striking and come and get this Null Cannon with your GUNS you scrubs .
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Dexter307
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
1588
|
Posted - 2014.06.02 18:44:00 -
[60] - Quote
Clone D wrote:Egonz4 wrote:No...its just because if u made abad decision then you have to live with it I don't get people who say this. If I made a good decision based on the skill/gear bonuses at the time, and then those bonuses are changed by a "tweak" then the conditions upon which my former decision was made have been changed and therefore I should have the right to change my mind. It's like taking a 2.5% mortgage on a house and then the next month the bank begins demanding 7% interest. You might say, "hey, that wasn't the original deal!" Not even close
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