DUST Search - The locus grenade changes baffle me

All Channels

General Discussions

The locus grenade changes baffle me

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 2 :: [one page]

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
Thang Bausch Pierrot Le Fou Industries 141	Posted - 2014.05.26 03:40:00 - [1] - Quote CCP: what was the rationale for the changes to the locus grenades? I can't make sense of them. You are planning on making damage almost double between advanced and prototype and nerfing basic grenades by around 40%.
deezy dabest Warpoint Sharx 564	Posted - 2014.05.26 04:00:00 - [2] - Quote Thang Bausch wrote: CCP: what was the rationale for the changes to the locus grenades? I can't make sense of them. You are planning on making damage almost double between advanced and prototype and nerfing basic grenades by around 40%. I guess they feel like flux grenades are not used enough so they need to stop all use of locus grenades. Laser focused in a room full of mirrors. Everything you ever wanted coming SoonGäó just keep buying boosters.
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1553	Posted - 2014.05.26 04:25:00 - [3] - Quote I'm thinking it's to encourage people to make room on their fittings for higher level grenades (thereby reducing EHP and/or DPS) by making the higher level grenades far more appealing than the basic ones. PSN ID: AlbelNox2569 MAG Vet ~ Raven R.I.P.~ Dust, R.I.P.~ MAG
Tectonic Fusion 1675	Posted - 2014.05.26 04:57:00 - [4] - Quote Baal Omniscient wrote: I'm thinking it's to encourage people to make room on their fittings for higher level grenades (thereby reducing EHP and/or DPS) by making the higher level grenades far more appealing than the basic ones. But still, isn't 100 damage for each level enough? They should change it back and make the SP requirements the same as all the other weapons, like REs and ARs.
Michael Arck 4536	Posted - 2014.05.26 05:01:00 - [5] - Quote I'm not speaking for myself but the GD community (not all) loathes grenade spam. CCP has even considered removing grenade restock from nanohives. God bless the community of GD. Always hating what kills them in a FPS. Archistrategos *Where the fear has gone there will be nothing....only I will remain*
Joseph Ridgeson WarRavens Final Resolution. 1914	Posted - 2014.05.26 08:56:00 - [6] - Quote I can kind of see why. Basic Locus grenades are pretty much all you need. By lowering the damage and buffing the higher level variants, it gives people a reason to fit them. With all the changes being made, including Plates being more difficult to fit, I am guessing that CCP wants to see more hard choices in dropsuits like there is for vehicles. Instead of limiting slots, they are making it harder to fit things you want to do. "Want to be the super scan Scout? Gotta have the extenders and precision enhancers." "Want to be the super stealth Scout? Gotta use lots of profile dampeners." "Want to actually have dangerous grenades? Gotta use higher level grenades." Don't know how to feel but I almost think that this is a beta test for how it will work in Legion. Probably not as slots and suits will be different but I have never done the tinfoil hat thing before so I guess it is my turn. "This is B.S! This is B.S! I paid money! Cash money, dollars money, cash money!"

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 1833	Posted - 2014.05.26 09:10:00 - [7] - Quote https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2175239#post2175239 https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2175232#post2175232 As a few have responded, it's to encourage the use of other grenades than locus, as well as provide a reason to specialize. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Krixus Flux Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 326	Posted - 2014.05.26 09:21:00 - [8] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2175239#post2175239 https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2175232#post2175232 As a few have responded, it's to encourage the use of other grenades than locus, as well as provide a reason to specialize. Chaff grenade? Sure bro. Other than that, I prefer my explosive nades. So that kinda sucks dude. Saying what's on people's minds

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 1836	Posted - 2014.05.26 10:24:00 - [9] - Quote Krixus Flux wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2175239#post2175239 https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2175232#post2175232 As a few have responded, it's to encourage the use of other grenades than locus, as well as provide a reason to specialize. Chaff grenade? Sure bro. Other than that, I prefer my explosive nades. So that kinda sucks dude. Keep using the proto, it's unchanged. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4260	Posted - 2014.05.26 11:01:00 - [10] - Quote You... increased the damage on proto. When I cook that thing and it explodes over somebody's head, it's doing 1300 damage. How is this discouraging me from grenade spam exactly?

Miokai Zahou The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 270	Posted - 2014.05.26 11:24:00 - [11] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: You... increased the damage on proto. When I cook that thing and it explodes over somebody's head, it's doing 1300 damage. How is this discouraging me from grenade spam exactly? They ....what!? Holy sh... ok maybe i should spec into nades as well just for the lolz.... Noob isn't really a status, it's the online equivalent of a 5-year old calling you a poopy fart head.
Thang Bausch Pierrot Le Fou Industries 142	Posted - 2014.05.26 12:55:00 - [12] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2175239#post2175239 https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2175232#post2175232 As a few have responded, it's to encourage the use of other grenades than locus, as well as provide a reason to specialize. There is no need to encourage the use of other grenades. Flux grenades are already very widely used and AV grenades will be used again after you increase the damage to the point where 2 grenades can take out most LAVs. Nerfing basic and advanced grenades will only encourage 2 things: the effectiveness of proto stomping (can only afford basic grenades? too bad noob because that squad of 6 guys with 30+ mill sp and proto suits is going to clean you up even more than before now that only they can have uber grenades) and fits with no grenades. The current +100 HP and blast radius increase for each is already good incentive to fit better grenade modules. I personally run Adv locus grenades on all my Adv Min Logi fits (min commando suits sadly and very oddly don't have grenade slots and that is the only other suit I run regularly) because 100 extra dmg and a wider radius is worth the extra fitting cost. I don't run proto because I don't run proto weapons on any of my logi fits because the suit is primarily about equipment and staying alive so I can keep others alive. The tier progression is unlike almost all the other weapons (the SL is the one light weapon I can think of that deviates from this) and many of modules (armor plates are a great example) where the basic level gives a strong showing and then the adv and proto add more modestly to the base stat(s). The tier progression you are proposing for grenades is similar to shield extenders where the basic and adv are almost useless, and then there is a huge jump to the proto, which results in just about everyone only using shield extenders if they can fit complex ones. To put this in perspective, why don't you tier weapons to encourage specialization? To take one weapon as example, CRs can start at 15 HP dmg, with 17 HP at Adv and 24 HP at Proto. Sound stupid? Exactly. Finally, excluding AV grenades, grenades aren't significantly unbalanced. There are so many things that desperately need rebalancing (e.g. SL effectiveness, race car tanks with godlike armor repairing, cloakless scouts being the new assault suit) and you are breaking something that wasn't really broken?!?
Thang Bausch Pierrot Le Fou Industries 142	Posted - 2014.05.26 12:58:00 - [13] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: You... increased the damage on proto. When I cook that thing and it explodes over somebody's head, it's doing 1300 damage. How is this discouraging me from grenade spam exactly? What did discourage grenade spam was reducing the number carried to 2. If they increase the nanohive cost, that would go further. But, I don't understand why grenade spam is considered a problem. I die to grenades very rarely compared to hand held weapons or tank/DS guns.
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 819	Posted - 2014.05.26 13:28:00 - [14] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: As a few have responded, it's to encourage the use of other grenades than locus, as well as provide a reason to specialize. Rattati, I disagree that this will do what you expect it to, and I'll try to show my reasoning. First, you're attempting to encourage the use of other grenades than locus, but it's the tail wagging the dog, from a game design perspective. Players use grenades to fill roles. Flux grenades are for anti-equipment spam, as a prep move before an assault, and to take out shield tanked suits (heavies, mostly). Oh, and to drop the shields of tanks after you planted remotes. AV grenades are for attempting to kill heavies in LAVs before they jump out and murder you, attempting to suppress dropships piloted by bads, and for fending off tanks for the 15 seconds it takes to regen the damage. Flux grenades are for finishing off suits after you've winged them, or in enclosed spaces if you have friends to spam with you, or to cook against heavies, or basically any anti-infantry role because you can actually kill people with them (this is important for logi suits that don't have sidearms as finishers) If you want locus grenades to be used more, then you need to discover why players prefer the other types and think about that, rather than blindly buff locus grenades until they're the optimal choice in so many situations that they break out of their role by pure OPness. So, if fluxes get used more than you want, it's probably because they are useful in more roles, especially in an AV and anti-equipment role. Perhaps looking at it from a role-based perspective will make other changes obvious (e.g. maybe the AV grenade buff will reduce the reliance on fluxes, or maybe people would use locus grenades to take out equipment if they worked as well as fluxes) Secondly, you're pushing the 'reason to specialise' bonus onto the grenades themselves rather than having a skill that's applicable to all grenade types. Frankly, this goes against Dust's design philosophy, which is "defensive items get better in large steps as you go up tiers, offensive items go up in small steps". Compare the boost that any module gets as it goes from std to adv to pro, vs the tiny 5% and 10% boosts for weapons. It's for a few good reasons; here's a few 1. It's a lot easier for a squad to apply multiple offensive weapons on a single enemy, but that enemy only has their own defensive modules to help them. Having defensive modules scale faster tries to ameliorate this 'n+1' effect, as does having diminishing returns for weapons 2. Psychologically, players do not like dying to expensive weapons that they see in their kill screen, but never get told about the prototype modules on their suit So, you have to ask yourself from a game design perspective, what are you hoping to encourage here, and how does it fit into the game? If you want people to specialise in the skill (which you'll note has prohibitive SP rank) then make each level of the skill do something awesome, like the Mass Driver skill does. I guarantee a lot of people will skill to V because it will be applicable for so, so many of their fits (unlike a small CPU bonus that doesn't affect much unless you're running core locus) If you want people to run more prototype grenades, then you'll probably be pleased with the results, but I question whether it is the correct approach to take. My suggestion would be to lower the damage gap between standard and pro grenades, rather than increase it, and look to other ways to balance them (blast radius is one thing, delay before detonation is another) Thirdly, I haven't done the numbers but I suspect that AV grenades may still not be good enough, because of the nature of their usage. AV grenades aren't thrown singly like other grenades; you use them much more rarely, but when you need them, you throw all of them at once as fast as you can. And more often than not, you find that two grenades isn't enough to kill anything. So, in this regard, buffing grenade alpha may work, but it might be better to let players carry three of them instead, which improves the total amount of damage that they can output by a minimum 50%, hopefully high enough to actually kill stuff. forthly, thanks for asking. Dust/Eve transfers
The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect 3146	Posted - 2014.05.26 13:30:00 - [15] - Quote lol nice heavys take then allmost no damage at all from grenades. 1 locus grenade will do like 150HP damage vs a caldari sentinel. Just you wait till every 1 grabs remote explosives instead of grenades.
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 759	Posted - 2014.05.26 13:36:00 - [16] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Krixus Flux wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2175239#post2175239 https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2175232#post2175232 As a few have responded, it's to encourage the use of other grenades than locus, as well as provide a reason to specialize. Chaff grenade? Sure bro. Other than that, I prefer my explosive nades. So that kinda sucks dude. Keep using the proto, it's unchanged. But when you increase proto and nerf lower tiers you just exacerbate proto stomping and lopsided matches and THAT is the biggest problem in Dust. Because, that's why.
Harpyja Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1772	Posted - 2014.05.26 13:59:00 - [17] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Krixus Flux wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2175239#post2175239 https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2175232#post2175232 As a few have responded, it's to encourage the use of other grenades than locus, as well as provide a reason to specialize. Chaff grenade? Sure bro. Other than that, I prefer my explosive nades. So that kinda sucks dude. Keep using the proto, it's unchanged. That's extremely stupid. Only those that have the ISK to spam proto will have a huge advantage over those that can't afford proto. Since when is ISK supposed to win you battles? Keep the damage if you want but make them cheaper so everyone can afford proto, but it would still take SP investment and specialization to get proto. "By His light, and His will" - The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
lithkul devant Legions of Infinite Dominion Zero-Day 232	Posted - 2014.05.26 14:05:00 - [18] - Quote Actually what he's doing is promoting the use of remote explosives, cause people will use these now instead to compensate the loss for damage potential within locus gernades. I know I will, since the remote explosive does high damage, people can barely see it if they can see it, and I can just place them around to suit my needs. I'll just change my gernade type to either flux or AV depending on which is better now.
Mauren NOON The Exemplars Top Men. 311	Posted - 2014.05.26 14:29:00 - [19] - Quote Personally, I hate grenades. I think grenades are cowardly. 1 reason why I'm a commando....Nade spam aggravates me to no end. I wouldn't be mad if locus grenades were removed all together Scr and commando enthusiast. A commando is not just a suit, but a way of life... "The only thing to fear is fear itself"
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4263	Posted - 2014.05.26 14:58:00 - [20] - Quote Harpyja wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Krixus Flux wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2175239#post2175239 https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2175232#post2175232 As a few have responded, it's to encourage the use of other grenades than locus, as well as provide a reason to specialize. Chaff grenade? Sure bro. Other than that, I prefer my explosive nades. So that kinda sucks dude. Keep using the proto, it's unchanged. That's extremely stupid. Only those that have the ISK to spam proto will have a huge advantage over those that can't afford proto. Since when is ISK supposed to win you battles? Since always. Welcome to New Eden. If it didn't give you an advantage it wouldn't be worth buying. If you don't like the idea that people with money will always have an advantage over you in life I recommend joining your unwashed hippy brethren in their terrible occupy wallstreet protests. It'll have zero effect on New Eden, but at least we won't have to listen to it.

Leeroy Gannarsein Legio DXIV 321	Posted - 2014.05.26 15:03:00 - [21] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Harpyja wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Krixus Flux wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2175239#post2175239 https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2175232#post2175232 As a few have responded, it's to encourage the use of other grenades than locus, as well as provide a reason to specialize. Chaff grenade? Sure bro. Other than that, I prefer my explosive nades. So that kinda sucks dude. Keep using the proto, it's unchanged. That's extremely stupid. Only those that have the ISK to spam proto will have a huge advantage over those that can't afford proto. Since when is ISK supposed to win you battles? Since always. Welcome to New Eden. If it didn't give you an advantage it wouldn't be worth buying. If you don't like the idea that people with money will always have an advantage over you in life I recommend joining your unwashed hippy brethren in their terrible occupy wallstreet protests. It'll have zero effect on New Eden, but at least we won't have to listen to it. It's only 14k anyway. MY ACTUAL NAME IS LORHAK It would seem like wisdom, but for the warning in my heart... CCP BLOWOUT FOR CPM1
Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command 538	Posted - 2014.05.26 16:05:00 - [22] - Quote This is the only change that wasn't communicated well and it's the only change in hotfix alpha that I don't like. Nerf new players, buff veterans? When has anyone said that? I expect this change to be undone in hotfix beta very quickly.
Thang Bausch Pierrot Le Fou Industries 143	Posted - 2014.05.26 16:35:00 - [23] - Quote SponkSponkSponk wrote: [quote=CCP Rattati] Flux grenades are for finishing off suits after you've winged them, or in enclosed spaces if you have friends to spam with you, or to cook against heavies, or basically any anti-infantry role because you can actually kill people with them (this is important for logi suits that don't have sidearms as finishers) Yeup, that's another reason why I run adv grenades but basic light weapons on my adv logi suit: My grenades are my secondary. I have lost count of the number of times that a well cooked grenade has saved me a clone.
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4266	Posted - 2014.05.26 20:33:00 - [24] - Quote Stefan Stahl wrote: This is the only change that wasn't communicated well and it's the only change in hotfix alpha that I don't like. Nerf new players, buff veterans? When has anyone said that? I expect this change to be undone in hotfix beta very quickly. I think nerfing new players is a great idea. I wouldn't be opposed to banning them outright if they prove continually useless.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. General Tso's Alliance 1935	Posted - 2014.05.26 21:15:00 - [25] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Krixus Flux wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2175239#post2175239 https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2175232#post2175232 As a few have responded, it's to encourage the use of other grenades than locus, as well as provide a reason to specialize. Chaff grenade? Sure bro. Other than that, I prefer my explosive nades. So that kinda sucks dude. Keep using the proto, it's unchanged. Uhhh You Turned Core Locus Grenades Into One Hit Kill Platforms. Welcome to DUST, Spend 3-4 months Training your character and setting up your suit, Spawn.. One shotted by random Grenade. Seriously what is the point of health point values on suits or a Persistent MMO Shooter if Deaths from grenades have no difference from Battlefield's... Where your supposed to be based off a Soldier of today without an advanced Armor suit . Pointing to random things to change without any Game concept behind it.... HAS BEEN DONE IN DUST 514. Can we not learn from the Mstakes made here once?
A'Real Fury D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 938	Posted - 2014.05.26 21:27:00 - [26] - Quote CCP feels that not enough people are protostomping so this is to encourage greater use of protogear because everything else will be rendered useless at some point. Public Relations - tick tick BOOM. PSN: CallOfTheDark
The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect 3147	Posted - 2014.05.26 21:49:00 - [27] - Quote Well this deffo sounds stupid. Buff proto and nerf advanced and standard. Like if the core locus wasnt bad enough allready.
D legendary hero WarRavens Final Resolution. 1896	Posted - 2014.05.26 22:17:00 - [28] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2175239#post2175239 https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2175232#post2175232 As a few have responded, it's to encourage the use of other grenades than locus, as well as provide a reason to specialize. why cant i Have basic contact grenades. That do 200 damage. Why arent those at basic level? Sou o Defendeiro dos derrubados_Pronto saberá justiça
Michael Arck 4545	Posted - 2014.05.26 22:21:00 - [29] - Quote Well, I will continue using my locus. It's part of my offensive strategy. Flux grenades are not my thing. So, I'm dealing with it. Archistrategos *Where the fear has gone there will be nothing....only I will remain*
Zahle Undt Bullet Cluster Lokun Listamenn 1676	Posted - 2014.05.26 22:32:00 - [30] - Quote Hahaha haven't you realized CCP is clueless OP? Most tankers are like sand people. They frighten easily, but will quickly return...and in greater numbers.

Booby Tuesdays Ahrendee Mercenaries 516	Posted - 2014.05.26 22:34:00 - [31] - Quote If this change makes it so people stop throwing grenades first, and shooting second, then I will consider this one of the better changes made to date. If you want to continue and 1hko folks, then specialize into Proto nades, otherwise learn to shoot straight.
Michael Arck 4545	Posted - 2014.05.26 22:42:00 - [32] - Quote Booby Tuesdays wrote: If this change makes it so people stop throwing grenades first, and shooting second, then I will consider this one of the better changes made to date. If you want to continue and 1hko folks, then specialize into Proto nades, otherwise learn to shoot straight. What the hell is up with these stupid "rules of engagement" guys like you like to throw around? Seriously? "Don't throw a grenade, shoot first" That is stupid. This is war. Not a gentlemen's game. Archistrategos *Where the fear has gone there will be nothing....only I will remain*
Booby Tuesdays Ahrendee Mercenaries 516	Posted - 2014.05.27 02:52:00 - [33] - Quote Michael Arck wrote: Booby Tuesdays wrote: If this change makes it so people stop throwing grenades first, and shooting second, then I will consider this one of the better changes made to date. If you want to continue and 1hko folks, then specialize into Proto nades, otherwise learn to shoot straight. What the hell is up with these stupid "rules of engagement" guys like you like to throw around? Seriously? "Don't throw a grenade, shoot first" That is stupid. This is war. Not a gentlemen's game. It is war, but if you're dumb enough to let me dump half a clip into you while you reach back to lazily toss a grenade before engaging, then that's your prerogative.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 5573	Posted - 2014.05.27 05:28:00 - [34] - Quote Booby Tuesdays wrote: Michael Arck wrote: Booby Tuesdays wrote: If this change makes it so people stop throwing grenades first, and shooting second, then I will consider this one of the better changes made to date. If you want to continue and 1hko folks, then specialize into Proto nades, otherwise learn to shoot straight. What the hell is up with these stupid "rules of engagement" guys like you like to throw around? Seriously? "Don't throw a grenade, shoot first" That is stupid. This is war. Not a gentlemen's game. It is war, but if you're dumb enough to let me dump half a clip into you while you reach back to lazily toss a grenade before engaging, then that's your prerogative. If you're dumping half a clip into someone and they're still managing to throw their grenade after you've done so, maybe YOU need to invest in better gear or learn to shoot straight...
Booby Tuesdays Ahrendee Mercenaries 516	Posted - 2014.05.27 06:44:00 - [35] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: If you're dumping half a clip into someone and they're still managing to throw their grenade after you've done so, maybe YOU need to invest in better gear or learn to shoot straight... Please tell me o' defender of the 'nade spam, what super OP weapon of choice do you use in armor tanking 514, that allows you to kill everyone with half a clip, besides an HMG? Have you mastered time travel and use the Duvolle TAC, pre-nerf? You sure as hell aren't using a Mass Driver. Reds can toss both grenades before you get your third shot off. What I am saying is that by the time you press L2 and the animation finishes, you've given up any advantage you might have had in a 1v1.
Eko Sol Strange Playings 386	Posted - 2014.05.27 07:08:00 - [36] - Quote I, for one, actually like the change. I think the nerf is TOO strong though. I think 350, 450, 600 would have been more valid. The issue is the new player who occasionally got a nade kill is now NEVER getting a nade kill. To be honest, I would just get rid of basic to begin with. Have multiple variants of ADV and PROTO (i.e. less radius, more damage, etc) and MLT. I do find myself fitting a Locus or M1 instead of a core just to save the PG/CPU but now that the nade would have such little impact in competitive play, I can't simply do that anymore. I might have to consider rolling with flux instead of the basic or ADV. Again, i like it but the nerf is too strong. It is really going to hurt new players such as my brother. PSN is "Ekopalm" I play D3, Child of Light, and solo games Also, Proto Trolling until I'm broke...
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 5574	Posted - 2014.05.27 07:54:00 - [37] - Quote Booby Tuesdays wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: If you're dumping half a clip into someone and they're still managing to throw their grenade after you've done so, maybe YOU need to invest in better gear or learn to shoot straight... Please tell me o' defender of the 'nade spam, what super OP weapon of choice do you use in armor tanking 514, that allows you to kill everyone with half a clip, besides an HMG? Have you mastered time travel and use the Duvolle TAC, pre-nerf? You sure as hell aren't using a Mass Driver. Reds can toss both grenades before you get your third shot off. What I am saying is that by the time you press L2 and the animation finishes, you've given up any advantage you might have had in a 1v1. I'm not defending nade spam. I'm defending the abilities of Sniper Rifles, Combat Rifles, Shotguns, Rail Rifles and pretty much every weapon in the game because most of them can kill in less than half a clip if you're aiming for the head (and some of which can do it without headshots). What I'm saying is that if you're throwing a grenade at someone who's already aware of your position, then yeah, that's kind of stupid except as a finisher when you just emptied your clip (and hopefully already killed somoene and are using the quick grenade throw to give yourself breathing room against another opponent). If you're opening on an UNAWARE enemy with a grenade though, that gives you a chance at a free kill, and a good head start as a worst-case scenario. I think the decision to change grenades is a terrible one, not because they shouldn't have any changes, but because the changes themselves are terrible.
Seymour KrelbornX Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 1	Posted - 2014.05.27 08:13:00 - [38] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2175239#post2175239 https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2175232#post2175232 As a few have responded, it's to encourage the use of other grenades than locus, as well as provide a reason to specialize. so to specialize you have to get to proto... which means that proto stompers just get another advantage over new players. but I take it this is part of the plan to discourage new players... in that case, good job!
Yoma Carrim Last VenDetta. 556	Posted - 2014.05.27 11:28:00 - [39] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2175239#post2175239 https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2175232#post2175232 As a few have responded, it's to encourage the use of other grenades than locus, as well as provide a reason to specialize. I have a question why did you reduce the Damage on Contact Grenades? Oh Heck
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4268	Posted - 2014.05.27 11:47:00 - [40] - Quote Yoma Carrim wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2175239#post2175239 https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2175232#post2175232 As a few have responded, it's to encourage the use of other grenades than locus, as well as provide a reason to specialize. I have a question why did you reduce the Damage on Contact Grenades? Spite.

Yoma Carrim Last VenDetta. 556	Posted - 2014.05.27 11:58:00 - [41] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Yoma Carrim wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2175239#post2175239 https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2175232#post2175232 As a few have responded, it's to encourage the use of other grenades than locus, as well as provide a reason to specialize. I have a question why did you reduce the Damage on Contact Grenades? Spite. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Weeps in a corner rocking Thunker Grenade Oh Heck
Appia Vibbia Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2654	Posted - 2014.05.27 13:05:00 - [42] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: Stefan Stahl wrote: This is the only change that wasn't communicated well and it's the only change in hotfix alpha that I don't like. Nerf new players, buff veterans? When has anyone said that? I expect this change to be undone in hotfix beta very quickly. I think nerfing new players is a great idea. I wouldn't be opposed to banning them outright if they prove continually useless. And there you have it folks, Kuronaga, the bitter-vet that comes to the forums but doesn't play. He get's the vision Hotfix Alpha is applying. Why can't you guys just understand this? Appia Vibbia for CPM1 AppiaVibbia(at)gmail(dot)com AKA Nappia, AKA Mathppia
Harpyja Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1774	Posted - 2014.05.27 13:15:00 - [43] - Quote If CPP wants only proto to be effective, then just make ALL proto weapons more than twice as damaging as standard. Standard plasma rifle: 25 damage per shot; proto plasma rifle: 65 damage per shot. No CCP. Buff standard grenades to 550 and keep proto at 650 if you want to do so so much. The increased damage output of proto should be marginal. There is nothing marginal about the changes to grenades. "By His light, and His will" - The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
The Dieing Life Band of The Hawkx Lokun Listamenn 2	Posted - 2014.05.27 13:19:00 - [44] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Krixus Flux wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2175239#post2175239 https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2175232#post2175232 As a few have responded, it's to encourage the use of other grenades than locus, as well as provide a reason to specialize. Chaff grenade? Sure bro. Other than that, I prefer my explosive nades. So that kinda sucks dude. Keep using the proto, it's unchanged. Make it where nades are better nades than remotes are and you might have people skill them. I get more kills with remotes useing them as nades are supposed to be used there much more efficient for the job.basic remotes beats proto nades hands down at the same job. I am your scan error Wait.... What scans?
The Dieing Life Band of The Hawkx Lokun Listamenn 2	Posted - 2014.05.27 13:23:00 - [45] - Quote This direction is guaranteeing no new players to the game btw. Shut it down bring me legion I am your scan error Wait.... What scans?

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 1889	Posted - 2014.05.27 16:16:00 - [46] - Quote Nothing Certain wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Krixus Flux wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2175239#post2175239 https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2175232#post2175232 As a few have responded, it's to encourage the use of other grenades than locus, as well as provide a reason to specialize. Chaff grenade? Sure bro. Other than that, I prefer my explosive nades. So that kinda sucks dude. Keep using the proto, it's unchanged. But when you increase proto and nerf lower tiers you just exacerbate proto stomping and lopsided matches and THAT is the biggest problem in Dust. Guys, this are my last comments on this, just for the record 1) basic grenades were too effective, as shown by the overwhelming use of them by the focus segment we use, a much worse percentage than other weapons 2) grenades had a very strong diminishing return in damage per cap(pg+cpu) investment, penalizing if you will, specialization in grenades 3) basic grenades, were simply good enough 4) I am certainly not an advocate of protostomping nor granting an unfair advantage to prototype, however there must be a fair incentive to specialize 5) proto grenades have the same damage, in the early version it had an increase to 650, but that was changed to 600, the old damage "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Awesome Pantaloons Lokapalas. 510	Posted - 2014.05.27 16:21:00 - [47] - Quote Do whatever you want with the damage. Rattata, bro, you're not going to change my preference. When I nearly kill some bastard and he takes to cover or retreats, its my faithful locus that finishes him. I use AVs and Fluxes on suits that benefit from them the most role-wise, but for the most part I overwhelmingly use locus, and no amount of changes will stop that. "The Wrath of God is Immense. His Justice is Swift and Decisive. His Tolerance is Limited." -The Code of Demeanor
The Dieing Life Band of The Hawkx Lokun Listamenn 4	Posted - 2014.05.27 16:41:00 - [48] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Nothing Certain wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Krixus Flux wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2175239#post2175239 https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2175232#post2175232 As a few have responded, it's to encourage the use of other grenades than locus, as well as provide a reason to specialize. Chaff grenade? Sure bro. Other than that, I prefer my explosive nades. So that kinda sucks dude. Keep using the proto, it's unchanged. But when you increase proto and nerf lower tiers you just exacerbate proto stomping and lopsided matches and THAT is the biggest problem in Dust. Guys, this are my last comments on this, just for the record 1) basic grenades were too effective, as shown by the overwhelming use of them by the focus segment we use, a much worse percentage than other weapons 2) grenades had a very strong diminishing return in damage per cap(pg+cpu) investment, penalizing if you will, specialization in grenades 3) basic grenades, were simply good enough 4) I am certainly not an advocate of protostomping nor granting an unfair advantage to prototype, however there must be a fair incentive to specialize 5) proto grenades have the same damage, in the early version it had an increase to 650, but that was changed to 600, the old damage I hope when legion comes out you sink with the dust ship every post you have is arrogant o and by the way a nade is not a conventional weapon so compareing it to other weapons is redundant as ive said before remotes are much better nades than nades. Please nerf them bet i can still kill you with them. Can i get a "SCRUB" I am your scan error Wait.... What scans?
The Dieing Life Band of The Hawkx Lokun Listamenn 4	Posted - 2014.05.27 16:52:00 - [49] - Quote Lol "focus segment" your a true business man are you not ccp sent in this guy to milk you all dry. I am your scan error Wait.... What scans?
Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command 545	Posted - 2014.05.27 16:57:00 - [50] - Quote Here's a thought: If grenades are a specialization then the fitting costs should reflect the choices being made by specializing. What I'm going is that there should be an actual cognitive process of asking yourself "Do I really want to equip grenades or not?". A Caldari Railrifle user may come to the conclusion that he doesn't need grenades because he always engages at large distances. He would then proceed to use those fitting resources to improve his shields. A Gallente Assault may decide that he does need to make sacrifices in his fitting elsewhere so he can equip grenades which will help him soften up sentinels he otherwise wouldn't be able to engage due to his main rifle's damage profile. If that's the concept we're aiming at with the grenade changes I would suggest increasing the fitting requirements for basic grenades while also making them more powerful.

Thang Bausch Pierrot Le Fou Industries 150	Posted - 2014.05.27 17:12:00 - [51] - Quote 1) basic grenades were too effective, as shown by the overwhelming use of them by the focus segment we use, a much worse percentage than other weapons - Of course the locus grenade will be used more often. AV and Flux grenades are situational, whereas locus are more general. This is like saying we need to nerf the AR/CR/RR because more people use it than the SL or MD. of course they do because they are general anit-infantry weapons while the other are situational so they only get used when the situation fits. 2) grenades had a very strong diminishing return in damage per cap(pg+cpu) investment, penalizing if you will, specialization in grenades - So do most light weapons and many modules and that is a good thing because it reduces proto stomping. I never complain about a proto weapon being used in a pub match; only proto suits because the extra slots (along with extra PG/CPU) make the tier progression too steep. 3) basic grenades, were simply good enough - basic weapons and armor plates are frequently good enough, so why don't you reward people 'for specializing' in them? Like in my earlier post, why not make the CR basic=15, adv=17, proto=27? 4) I am certainly not an advocate of protostomping nor granting an unfair advantage to prototype, however there must be a fair incentive to specialize - well, you might not be a verbal advocate of protostomping, but your actions are promoting it. Words are meaningless if your actions contradict. - the answer to fair incentive (as others have posted) is to reduce the sp and/or increase the specing advantage. for the former, reload speed used to be x5 which was way too high for such a small increase to a skill that is not that important for dual weapon fits; the current x3 made specing into it worthwhile. For the latter, CPU reduction is not worth specing to lvl 5. If you made it dmg and/or radius, that might encourage me to spec further. 5) proto grenades have the same damage, in the early version it had an increase to 650, but that was changed to 600, the old damage - that's not the problem. You could have increased to 650 and left the basic at their current levels and I would not have complained. If you had made the progression more leveled and less pronounced (e.g. 300/450/600), I would have been disappointed but not complained. In the end, if this is indicative of how balancing will be handled (i.e. balancing things that aren't broken before balancing things that are, and breaking what was not broken in the process), then I am questioning my decision to play out this game until people move to Legion and I move to something else available on my console.
Thang Bausch Pierrot Le Fou Industries 151	Posted - 2014.05.27 17:19:00 - [52] - Quote Stefan Stahl wrote: Here's a thought: If grenades are a specialization then the fitting costs should reflect the choices being made by specializing. What I'm going is that there should be an actual cognitive process of asking yourself "Do I really want to equip grenades or not?". A Caldari Railrifle user may come to the conclusion that he doesn't need grenades because he always engages at large distances. He would then proceed to use those fitting resources to improve his shields. A Gallente Assault may decide that he does need to make sacrifices in his fitting elsewhere so he can equip grenades which will help him soften up sentinels he otherwise wouldn't be able to engage due to his main rifle's damage profile. If that's the concept we're aiming at with the grenade changes I would suggest increasing the fitting requirements for basic grenades while also making them more powerful. Think of changes that would make you people go "Show me your best grenadier fitting". This change certainly isn't one of them. I like the idea of making changes that promote a grenadier fit. I think the important thing would be to have a way to increase grenade count. Off the top of my head, maybe a low/high module that adds 1 more grenade and increases the range/dmg slightly (with only the latter increasing with each lvl increase). that could be a module that is only available if you spec into another skill beyond grenades (like a grenade proficiency). If that could only be speced into if you had lvl 5 in gernades, it would encourage specialization. Anyway, totally off the top of my head so not thought out at all.
Meisterjager Jagermeister Red and Silver Hand Amarr Empire 176	Posted - 2014.05.27 17:41:00 - [53] - Quote Well, looks like I'm too late to the discussion, CCP R. gave his last word. Before I found this thread I created a thread in FEEDBACK forum explaining my opinion. Too long for a simple repost here. AKA - StarVenger
Meisterjager Jagermeister Red and Silver Hand Amarr Empire 176	Posted - 2014.05.27 18:25:00 - [54] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: 4) I am certainly not an advocate of protostomping nor granting an unfair advantage to prototype, however there must be a fair incentive to specialize Answer: Increase proto damage so it may come close to competing with the RE. @ HotfixAlpha Grenades- Forget grenades I'm going RE!!!! AKA - StarVenger
ANON Cerberus Tiny Toons 774	Posted - 2014.05.27 18:58:00 - [55] - Quote CCP here is a thought, why not make the skills give the grenade its power....? What I mean is (And these are random numbers by the way just to illustrate) Grenade Type -- -- -- -- -- \| Grenade Damage and Radius \| -- -- -- -- -- Skill level bonus Locus Grenade \|Base Dmg 400, Base Radius 4m \| Level 1 in 'Grenades' = +10% Dmg +10% Blast Radius Locus Grenade \|Base Dmg 400, Base Radius 4m \| Level 3 in 'Grenades' = +30% Dmg +30% Blast Radius Locus Grenade \|Base Dmg 400, Base Radius 4m \| Level 5 in 'Grenades' = +50% Dmg +50% Blast Radius And then do similar for the AV and Flux grenades etc.... Its a little different, I know.
The Dieing Life Band of The Hawkx Lokun Listamenn 4	Posted - 2014.05.27 19:19:00 - [56] - Quote ANON Cerberus wrote: CCP here is a thought, why not make the skills give the grenade its power....? What I mean is (And these are random numbers by the way just to illustrate) Grenade Type -- -- -- -- -- \| Grenade Damage and Radius \| -- -- -- -- -- Skill level bonus Locus Grenade \|Base Dmg 400, Base Radius 4m \| Level 1 in 'Grenades' = +10% Dmg +10% Blast Radius Locus Grenade \|Base Dmg 400, Base Radius 4m \| Level 3 in 'Grenades' = +30% Dmg +30% Blast Radius Locus Grenade \|Base Dmg 400, Base Radius 4m \| Level 5 in 'Grenades' = +50% Dmg +50% Blast Radius And then do similar for the AV and Flux grenades etc.... Its a little different, I know. I like this idea makes sence but alas not money. I am your scan error Wait.... What scans?
Thang Bausch Pierrot Le Fou Industries 153	Posted - 2014.05.28 01:48:00 - [57] - Quote Meisterjager Jagermeister wrote: Well, looks like I'm too late to the discussion, CCP R. gave his last word. Before I found this thread I created a thread in FEEDBACK forum explaining my opinion. Too long for a simple repost here. Yes, good to know our feedback is being listened to.


Pages: 1 2 :: [one page]

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online/DUST514, the EVE/DUST514 logo, EVE/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to OMG Labs to use EVE Online/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, OMG Labs. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.