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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 25 post(s) |
RedPencil
DUST University
Ivy League
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Posted - 2014.05.22 13:50:00 -
[1] - Quote
CCP Rattati announce to remove the dampening effect of the cloak the Hotfix Alpha. I think that make Min scout with lower tier have no ground to stand. It will force Min scout to fit 2 damp at least to stay compete with other, and the low tier has only 2 slots. So we have to drop code breaker.
I think this nerf will drive people to select gal scout even more to bypass that. |
RedPencil
DUST University
Ivy League
1
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Posted - 2014.05.22 14:06:00 -
[2] - Quote
Here is a scan for 1.8 |
RedPencil
DUST University
Ivy League
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Posted - 2014.05.22 14:31:00 -
[3] - Quote
The-Errorist wrote:RedPencil wrote:CCP Rattati announce to remove the dampening effect of the cloak the Hotfix Alpha. I think that make Min scout with lower tier have no ground to stand. It will force Min scout to fit 2 damp at least to stay compete with other, and the low tier has only 2 slots. So we have to drop code breaker.
I think this nerf will drive people to select gal scout even more to bypass that. So you want to be able to hide from a prototype active scanner in the hands of a suit with a role bonus towards precision, by only using 1 module?
non proto Min only have 2 low slot, and It already require 2 damp on to stay under prototype active. See this table What is the point of Min scout to have hacking bonus if we don't have slot to fit it? Don't force only one specific fit to Min. |
RedPencil
DUST University
Ivy League
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Posted - 2014.05.22 16:31:00 -
[4] - Quote
Rich MO-FO wrote:Starfire Revo wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Please elaborate The ability for scouts to passively scan wide areas for their squad means that they're essentially a walking, permanent wall hack for 5 other people. After the cloak change, the Gal scout will be able to see everything above 23.79db within 75m while being undetected himself (if he builds for it). The Cal scout will see everything above 14.91 for the same radius, which creates a barrier that most scouts can't enter unless they get torn to shreds by the 5 other people. If you want Cal scouts to remain as the hunters of other scouts, then they should have to hunt down enemies themselves. So aside from removing the shared passive vision, I'd suggest the following changes (based loosely on Jebus' suggestions). Cal scout: short range precision scout hunter 25% precision 25% reduction to nova knife charge time (nova knives are a cal weapon) Gal scout: ghost 25% dampening 25% cloak regen Min scout: hack and run 25% hacking speed (Min scouts get a higher base stat for this anyway, no need to buff it more) 10% bonus to biotics (with their high base melee damage and speed, this opens up a lot of options) edit: Someone pointed out the numbers on +25% on biotics, so changed it to +10% Ama scout: squad scan support, scans most suits except scouts 25% bonus to ferroscale and reactive plates (I've heard changing movement penalties is hard to make work, so this makes more sense) 25% scan range (gives Amarr their own E-war role and makes sense considering their weapon choices hit out to similar ranges) Also, I'd like to note that while balancing around PC makes some sense considering it's the only full team vs full team mode right now, it has the issues of a limited map pool and limited playerbase. If they're serious about balance changes, I'd rather see full team FW enabled and have them take those figures into consideration too. FW is open to far more people and uses maps outside just the limited large socket selection. Only one that makes sense
With this propose, switch Cal and Gal e-war would be nice
Cal scout:
25% dampening
25% reduction to nova knife charge time (nova knives are a cal weapon)
Gal scout:
25% precision
25% cloak regen
Min scout:
25% hacking speed
10% bonus to biotics
Ama scout:
25% bonus to ferroscale and reactive plates
25% scan range
The slot will counter themselves for all scout and limit them not too OP. With this swop, no need for romove damp on cloak.
- 2 low slot will limit Cal not too overpower with damp and ghost match with knife skill quite well.
- Gal will be inline with Gal logi bonus. 2 mid slot will limit them not to over shine Gal logi, and shotgun gal still strong with longer cloak duration.
- Min remain speed hack. 2(3 on proto) will let them select to be better damp or better speed.
-Amarr will be have a long scan range but could not see high skill Cal scout with 2 damp |
RedPencil
DUST University
Ivy League
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Posted - 2014.05.22 16:39:00 -
[5] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:We want to stick to the dampening removal on cloaks.
How, and you only have one stat to change, do we do that while not making Gallente scout the only viable (PC) meta?
Go!
swap Gal and Cal e-war bonus and their slot layout will limit themselves not to be OP.
EDIT: please reconsidering remove dampening cloaks, it will force Min scout low tier (have only 2 low) to fit 2 damp and lost an ability to fit code breaker for speed hack. |
RedPencil
DUST University
Ivy League
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Posted - 2014.05.22 16:59:00 -
[6] - Quote
Alabastor 'TheBlaster' Alcar wrote:what is the problem with gal scouts compared to the others? i see nothing wrong with any of the scouts except the minmatar and amar, minmatar get a bonusto a weapon thas caldari and the hacking bonus gimped logi suits, & the amar scout is useless bonus wise. just because 2 of the suits are junk dosnt mean that the most used model need to be changed, id say the 2 least used models need to be reworked. DONT MESS WITH THE GAL SCOUT ITS THE ONLY COUNTER TO THE CAL
Gal and Cal e-war bonus are over shine Min and Amarr. Gal suit stat and layout give them too much advantage. Try to swap Gal and Cal e-war bonus and see. 2 low slots will limit Cal not too over damp, and 2 high slots will limit Gal not to over shine Gal logi. |
RedPencil
DUST University
Ivy League
3
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Posted - 2014.05.22 17:29:00 -
[7] - Quote
headbust wrote:RedPencil wrote:Alabastor 'TheBlaster' Alcar wrote:what is the problem with gal scouts compared to the others? i see nothing wrong with any of the scouts except the minmatar and amar, minmatar get a bonusto a weapon thas caldari and the hacking bonus gimped logi suits, & the amar scout is useless bonus wise. just because 2 of the suits are junk dosnt mean that the most used model need to be changed, id say the 2 least used models need to be reworked. DONT MESS WITH THE GAL SCOUT ITS THE ONLY COUNTER TO THE CAL Gal and Cal e-war bonus are over shine Min and Amarr. Gal suit stat and layout give them too much advantage. Try to swap Gal and Cal e-war bonus and see. 2 low slots will limit Cal not too over damp, and 2 high slots will limit Gal not to over shine Gal logi. this is the exact opposite there role y would u do that its not needed as said before quit nerfing and help the other 2 scouts by giving them a skill worth 2 cents
Please give me a explanation how can those opposite their role? The change Gal with scan bonus in line with Gal logo and Cal with damp bonus will match with nova knife. I assume that you are enjoy the advantage of Gal so much and don't want to change it.
I think along those 4 scout Min scout is the most balance. Their bonus is useful and slot layout is flexible enough to select what do they want to do. E-war bonus with their slot layout give them too strong and over shine Amarr and Min. |
RedPencil
DUST University
Ivy League
4
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Posted - 2014.05.22 17:43:00 -
[8] - Quote
Alabastor 'TheBlaster' Alcar wrote:yeah there is nothing wrong with 2 of the scouts and the other 2 are garbage you dont raise the 2 garbage ones by turning the other 2 into garbage. especially now that clocks will not be giving a damping bonus, thats going to make the proto gal scout users super fukin op
True, Amarr scout is a joke but not Min cout. I'm not sure if you ever run Min or Amarr scout. Min need 2 damp to stay under pro to Active scan but still see by Cal, with their 2(3 at pro to) low slots limit them to chose to be low profile or a speed hack. I think the idea that you have to choose wisely how to fit is a basic balance.
Try to give an proper explanation not to limit down Gal and Cal scout please. |
RedPencil
DUST University
Ivy League
4
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Posted - 2014.05.22 18:20:00 -
[9] - Quote
Alabastor 'TheBlaster' Alcar wrote:
so u want to swap the gal and cal role bonuses but that willl not change the fact that the other 2 suits are still garbage and without decent role bonuses, which dosnt warent a change to the 2 scouts that actually work correctly and are useful. the minmatar needs to get a sidearm damage bonus and a bonus to explosives and the amar needs something like laser damage bonus and maby cloak duration. the speed hacking needs to be put back on all logi suits and there u go probemfixed
I propose my idea so that we can have an augment to find a better solution. Right now, Gal and Cal bonus are too strong. It over shine other 2 scout and Gal logo who suppose to be the best scanner.
Considering a swap bonus, it will limit down Gal and Cal to be selective when fitting. Gal with 2 high slots limit them not to over shine Gal logi and if they will have to trade of there speed or tank with damp to stay low profile.
On other ways, Cal with 2 low slots could fit only 2 complex damp. It strong but not over proto active scan. it will be useful for scan with stack up scan on high slot.
For Min, I just gonna copy and paste what I said earlier. Min need 2 damp to stay under pro to Active scan but still see by Cal, with their 2(3 at pro to) low slots limit them to chose to be low profile or a speed hack. I think the idea that you have to choose wisely how to fit is a basic balance.
Like you said, Amarr scout is a joke and their bonus is garbage. The bonus give them run faster and longer but still out run by other.
Sad but true, i want to ask CCP
Why Amarr have speed bonus? it suppose to be Min so it will match with hack bonus and complete the role of speed hack like you defined.
Why Min have Nova knife bonus? It is Cal weapon. If Cal have damp bonus, it would match with knifing skill.
Why Cal bonus beat down Gal logi? with active scan who support to be master in scan.
Why Gal is a master ninja who is no one can scan? It totally broke active scans logic. |
RedPencil
DUST University
Ivy League
4
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Posted - 2014.05.22 18:50:00 -
[10] - Quote
headbust wrote:RedPencil wrote:headbust wrote:RedPencil wrote:Alabastor 'TheBlaster' Alcar wrote:what is the problem with gal scouts compared to the others? i see nothing wrong with any of the scouts except the minmatar and amar, minmatar get a bonusto a weapon thas caldari and the hacking bonus gimped logi suits, & the amar scout is useless bonus wise. just because 2 of the suits are junk dosnt mean that the most used model need to be changed, id say the 2 least used models need to be reworked. DONT MESS WITH THE GAL SCOUT ITS THE ONLY COUNTER TO THE CAL Gal and Cal e-war bonus are over shine Min and Amarr. Gal suit stat and layout give them too much advantage. Try to swap Gal and Cal e-war bonus and see. 2 low slots will limit Cal not too over damp, and 2 high slots will limit Gal not to over shine Gal logi. this is the exact opposite there role y would u do that its not needed as said before quit nerfing and help the other 2 scouts by giving them a skill worth 2 cents Please give me a explanation how can those opposite their role? The change Gal with scan bonus in line with Gal logo and Cal with damp bonus will match with nova knife. I assume that you are enjoy the advantage of Gal so much and don't want to change it. I think along those 4 scout Min scout is the most balance. Their bonus is useful and slot layout is flexible enough to select what do they want to do. E-war bonus with their slot layout give them too strong and over shine Amarr and Min. i run both gal and cal scout and i know how to counter each one and the gal scout has been known as the infiltrator since day one i dont care about the logi take the logi crap to another post this is a scout post u are suggesting the cal SCOUT and the gal SCOUT completely change roles this is wat i see as dumb i have another thread that explains how to fix the dampened brick scout so simply if u would look at another forum all u have to do is give armor modules a profile penalty
Call other people dumb but ignore the big picture is even dumber. They skill bonus are tie down together. BTW, this is Gal scout fix. if you talk about brick scout, go back to ur thread. |
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RedPencil
DUST University
Ivy League
4
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Posted - 2014.05.22 18:57:00 -
[11] - Quote
Cyrius Li-Moody wrote:Alabastor 'TheBlaster' Alcar wrote:explain to me how the gal scout is better, i dont understand. the cal scout is just as good as the gal. its the min and amar that suk The Gallente is the true infiltrator which makes it the best at the "scout" role that has existed in Dust for a long time. The Gallente are the best at close quarters, at flanking, at ninja hacking, at dropping uplinks, at solo point defense, etc etc. They're the best for nearly everything because they are ghosts. They only have to give up 2 slots (a damp and a cloak) as opposed to 3 slots (2 damps and cloak) to become ghosts. Caldari is at a close second because it forces Gallente and other scouts to lose a low slot for a damp to continue scouting. This is a fact that CCP should consider. A precision tanked Caldari is the norm in a competitive environment because THAT is the best counter to someone attempting to infiltrate Arguably the BEST feature of a scout that should never be taken away from ANY of them is their ability to avoid detection. That's why you run a scout. To get behind enemy lines and hit them from where they least expect it. If a scout fails to avoid detection they are a worthless asset on the battlefield because they cannot fulfill their role as a stealth unit. A scout who is constantly getting scanned via passive or active is better off in an entirely different suit or simply ehp tanking and playing the role of an assault because that's all they'll be good for. Removing the ability for every scout to easily avoid detection is like removing a sentinel's ability to easily tank ehp. Honestly it seems to me like they're not even sure how their game is currently played and why. I don't mean that to be rude. It just seems like they're out of touch with their own mechanics and player base.
Moody, I don't c u update ur youtube lately, what's wrong? Also can you give me a feedback about the idea that swap Cal and Gal e-war bonus? |
RedPencil
DUST University
Ivy League
4
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Posted - 2014.05.22 19:01:00 -
[12] - Quote
headbust wrote:this will fix the gal scout DUH AND THE BRICK SCOUT IS THE GAL SCOUT GOSH I NEVER CALLED U DUMB i said the switching of roles is dumb
as my apology. Could you tell me why swap those bonus is dumb? |
RedPencil
DUST University
Ivy League
4
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Posted - 2014.05.22 19:13:00 -
[13] - Quote
pseudosnipre wrote:Is dampening the ONLY good thing about the scout suit? I hate that all my competitive 1.8 fits HAVE to have a cloak.
Stop being so shortsighted. CCP can still change backend data on the fly, so get creative. All the scouts are too alike to make them interesting. And seriously, increase the penalty to armor plate stacking on scouts already. My 120lb scout should not be sprinting under 120lbs of armor plates.
Gallente is the only racial that shouldnt have to stack dampeners to stay off tacnet. Get over it. In fact, remove the range bonus and make it an armor rep bonus, like 2hp/s per level.
Now, with that said...
Caldari scouts shouldnt have to stack range and precision mods to see enemies at 50m. Give them a better racial bonus for each, but let them light up tacnet like a christmas tree. After all, they should accel at long distance weapons but suffer at close range. Besides, they already stack shields. Oh, and change caldari scout (only) sniper zoom to outline targets through walls.
Minmatar are supposed to be speed assassins, so give them better mobility (+.15m/s per lvl) and sprint (+.5m/s per lvl) stats and nerf their ability to tank...let them be NK glass cannons with crazy hack speed. Yes I'm talking crazy stuff, like 15m/s with kincats stacked...even if you have to goober it up by making it a duration skill.
Eliminate the (increased scout) armor stacking penalty for amarr and let them keep their stamina bonuses. Plus 10% gold thread content to their suit or something. Better yet, give them a heat buildup bonus to scr and lsr.
I'm tired of this lame tuning approach, make the game exciting and dynamic already. I want a reason to skill other scout suits.
Agree, if not swap Gal and Cal bonus. What about.
Cal
5% scan per lv
5% damage knife per lv (it Cal weapon anyway)
Gal
-5% damp per lv
1+ armor regen per lv
Min
5% hack per lv
5% speed per lv
Ama
5% scan range per lv
-5% plate stack pen per lv |
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