A very elaborate effort. Details aside, I'm with you in your line of thinking and believe very strongly that this avenue is the best for legion with eve, dust to legion, and for both new & vet players.

Although not being a fan of tiericide myself, it seems CCP and a significant portion of the community is.

In addition to the ISIS interface, the cost of skill books should be used to GÇ£coralGÇ¥ new players into successful strategies without explicitly prohibiting freedom. Skills that will be very helpful early on should be very cheap, and those that are better trained later should be very expensive.

You should ask I-Shayz-I if you can have your thread linked in the sticky thread above. Great place to post your idea there.

Marking this for inclusion in the index.

I like pretty pictures, and the DEVs do too.

snip

Sir, having complex game mechanics Like PC and FW as well as a open world, as well as having fittings and such, additionally allowing cheating (not game cheating, but like person to person), lying, stealing, etc. as allowed will drive those away. I ask yet again, why is a system that limits others for a group of idiots better than fixing the system and teaching those idiots how to use the system, as well as give them a guide?

Well, calling them idiots is hardly a welcoming start wouldn't you say?

Your ideas for roles are quite odd or just downright aweful (EWAR medium suit? LOL), but the overall idea is good.

EDIT: This is pretty much the sight of how the ISIS and skill system would look (with T I suits added though). I can't draw and is horrible with putting pics together, so you doing this is a good thing.

Yeah I needed to fill all roles to complete the UI. Some were thrown together at the last second. I'm sure smarter people than myself could come up with better roles to fill those boxes.

The problem is so bad that a tidy up of the tree and the introduction of some new UI just isn't going to be enough now. The proposals I've seen so far from players including your own Vell0cet are merely re-jigs of what we have now. And what we have now has seen the games retention rates drop for a year.

In the early stages of joining game such as ours, players should be free to experiment and try as much as possible BEFORE they have to consider specialisations and bonuses for items. In those first few hours they must be given a sense of real achievement in order for them to feel comfortable in staying.

The first couple of hours should be spent unlocking as much as they can for use. They shouldn't be yet burdened with choices regarding bonuses till they know what things they like to do and want to do better.

But to prevent them doing it with no structure or end game, giving a role to unlock with weapons pertinent to that role as unlocks to give a sense of progress is the key to do it. Unlocking a weapon to use should be an experiment not a life choice. Allowing that weapon to be used in any other role while busy unlocking lots of stuff should be seen as bonus, not a requirement.

Giving a player a lot of achievement early in the game with the promise of greater reward with increasing specialisation is how we grab them and keep them.

Having roles gives them structure and understanding without the need of a separate tutorial or extra UI, it streamlines the process and facilitates self teaching.

A better NPE will help with things like teaching them game lore and PvE, explaining the value of corps.

First of all Vell0cet, you've done a great job with your mock ups. They're clear, concise and easy to understand. o7

But before I offer you an opinion on them, I feel it only fair to come clean about something. As those of you who are actively post on Z's official progression thread will know, I'm very much in favour of his plans. This isn't because of me wishing to make some sort of drama or being provocative I can assure you but a genuine belief that the player numbers will grow substantially using it.

In my latest blog which was a round up of Fanfest I speak of NDA's and how important they are. In that section I hint and wink about something which after the Dust Keynote became an open secret to those that attended. I'd signed an NDA prior to my going to Fanfest. The circumstance and reason for me doing so are not something I'm prepared or at liberty to discuss and I'd ask that you respect that.

But obviously any prior knowledge that I might have, is going to colour my views somewhat. So I feel its important for the sake of full disclosure that you know that before I proceed.

The first real problem with changing such an entrenched system is the familiarly that those that use it, have with it. It is so easy to forget that while we are used to its quirks and shortfalls and know how to bypass them, a complete novice, with no prior understanding of such a deep and complex skill are completely befuddled by it. As CEO of D-UNI, I am in an almost unique position to comment on this.

Now while the number of players I kick very rarely goes above 20% of the corp total, 90% of them on average are new toons less than 6 weeks old. Meaning D-UNI has a retention rate of roughly 10% for new players with a character less or just over 30 days. Now a strongly performing Free to Play game has a retention rate of 5%. So reading that you'd say were doing well.

The problem is so bad that a tidy up of the tree and the introduction of some new UI just isn't going to be enough now. The proposals I've seen so far from players including your own Vell0cet are merely re-jigs of what we have now. And what we have now has seen the games retention rates drop for a year.

The number one question I get right now from new players is what do I do and how do I go about it. So complex and daunting is the current tree to a new player it that they are scared to do anything in case they screw it up. They sense that a mistake now could bugger them up right away but they've no clue as to why.

This not the way to encourage your new players to stay with the game, in a climate of fear of a mistake. In the early stages of joining game such as ours, players should be free to experiment and try as much as possible BEFORE they have to consider specialization and bonuses for items. In those first few hours they must be given a sense of real achievement in order for them to feel comfortable in staying.

The first couple of hours should be spent unlocking as much as they can for use. They shouldn't be yet burdened with choices regarding bonuses till they know what things they like to do and want to do better. But to prevent them doing it with no structure or end game, giving a role to unlock with weapons pertinent to that role as unlocks to give a sense of progress is the key to do it. Unlocking a weapon to use should be an experiment not a life choice. Allowing that weapon to be used in any other role while busy unlocking lots of stuff should be seen as bonus, not a requirement.

So a given role that easily understood and equipped as for such as soon as is possible is more preferable than being burdened immediately with do I unlock light, medium or Heavy and hell do they mean anyway?

Racial bonuses for suits and weapons shouldn't even enter the equation till a player wants to specialise and understands that there is a benefit to the play style that they use by choosing a race.

Giving a player a lot of achievement early in the game with the promise of greater reward with increasing specialisation is how we grab them and keep them. Having roles gives them structure and understanding without the need of a separate tutorial or extra UI, it streamlines the process and facilitates self teaching. A better NPE will help with things like teaching them game lore and PvE, explaining the value of corps.

But it shouldn't be seen as a cure all panacea, compensating for progression system based on that for a Hardcore subscription game, when what is needed for a FTP is as broad an audience as possible.

I'm actually not a fan of that particular skill tree, for several reasons, but the core concept is decent.

Only problem with the tree is that is has cap stuff, and that you put all the T I suits under one skill.

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.

Okay, then. You asked for it!

#1. I'm a little disillusioned with the dropsuit skill tree. I was hoping it would be more like EVE, where the specialization skills were separate from the racial skills. Your proposed skill tree makes hopping between specializations and factions comparatively easy. For someone who has learned Gallente Assault, jumping to Caldari Logistics is just as easy as jumping to Gallente Logistics or Caldari Assault. Your specialization doesn't mean as much, nor does your faction. If the two skills were separate, it would make a lot more sense and have a lot more meaning.

#4. I don't get the advanced specialization thing. I honestly don't see the point in it. If all you want is to have greater amounts of specialization, wouldn't it be better to have separate dropsuits for each micro-specialization without needing new skills?

#2. The explosives branch is a mess. It seems to contain both missile weapons and artillery weapons (Mass Driver). It would have been better if the non-projectile and non-missile explosives, such as those that are thrown or placed, were separate from both projectile weapons and missile weapons, as they act very differently.

#3. The dropsuit and vehicle modules are separate. An unnecessary and annoying skillpoint sink.