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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 4 post(s)
Godin Thekiller shadows of 514 2258	Posted - 2014.05.14 10:59:00 - [1] - Quote CCP Z wrote: I donGÇÖt necessarily agree with the EVE example, it remains a really difficult progression system to understand. Legion is not and will not be EVE, even if both games share the same universe. We have many reasons justifying that choice: we are not the same business model (subscription vs free to play), we are not talking to the same target audience (hardcore MMO players vs Online FPS Players). That isnGÇÖt to say that their progression system isnGÇÖt great and applicable to EVE GÇô only that it does not necessarily fit the game we want Project Legion to become. I think that the new system will allow both: accessibility for new users to understand, while keeping the high level complexity of mix-matching modules, weapons and Dropsuits. Not sure what you meant by that, but I'm pretty sure you just made it seem like we have lower intelligence than EVE playeres. Dude, most of us play EVE, and all the endgame mechanics that we have for endgame would confuse any players that is just a casual (and casuals don't help build the games). That's a horrible argument, and you need to explain yourself. Peace, Godin click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Spectral Clone Dust2Dust. Top Men. 2650	Posted - 2014.05.14 11:02:00 - [2] - Quote He is having a difficult time to follow the Dust 514 skill tree, like he mentioned in his presentation at FanFest. Git fcking guuuuuuud. This message was brought to you by the PC master race.
Syeven Reed G0DS AM0NG MEN 637	Posted - 2014.05.14 11:03:00 - [3] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: Not sure what you meant by that, but I'm pretty sure you just made it seem like we have lower intelligence than EVE playeres. Dude, most of us play EVE, and all the endgame mechanics that we have for endgame would confuse any players that is just a casual (and casuals don't help build the games). That's a horrible argument, and you need to explain yourself. Peace, Godin Im sure thats not what he meant xD, I sure he just means that Legion isn't a complicated game, and thus doesn't need to have over complications like a skill system that mirrors EvE. Twitter MajLagSpike CPM Application
Spectral Clone Dust2Dust. Top Men. 2650	Posted - 2014.05.14 11:06:00 - [4] - Quote CCP - Masters of the universe at PR. This message was brought to you by the PC master race.
Mia Romani Nexus Marines 94	Posted - 2014.05.14 11:07:00 - [5] - Quote I don't think he's calling us dumb, I think he's saying we're not the target audience. I raised a concern with this very same comment in the stickied thread; I'm not sure this required a whole new thread. Interstellar Crossroads

CCP Saberwing C C P C C P Alliance 4607	Posted - 2014.05.14 11:24:00 - [6] - Quote Mia Romani wrote: I don't think he's calling us dumb Wellllllllllllllllllllll....... nah, only kidding Obviously not what he meant. CCP Saberwing // DUST 514 Community Manager // @kanafchian

Spectral Clone Dust2Dust. Top Men. 2653	Posted - 2014.05.14 12:07:00 - [7] - Quote CCP Saberwing wrote: Mia Romani wrote: I don't think he's calling us dumb Wellllllllllllllllllllll....... nah, only kidding Obviously not what he meant. Then give us a complex skill tree please. Dont underestimate your players just because you devs are scrubs, k? :D This message was brought to you by the PC master race.
TrueXer0z DUST University Ivy League 543	Posted - 2014.05.14 12:15:00 - [8] - Quote Casual gamers are what make up the overwhelming majority. They are what pay the bills with a game like Dust514/Legion. Still, doesn't mean we need a derp version of anything. Director, Dust University @TrueXer0z *Kevall Longstride - CPM1*
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers Dirt Nap Squad. 2880	Posted - 2014.05.14 12:19:00 - [9] - Quote Complexity =/= Depth. We want a skill system with depth, not necessarily a skill system with complexity.
Leeroy Gannarsein Shining Flame Amarr Empire 77	Posted - 2014.05.14 12:31:00 - [10] - Quote ZDub 303 wrote: Complexity =/= Depth. We want a skill system with depth, not necessarily a skill system with complexity. I think it is safe to say that we explicitly and specifically do not want a 'complex' skill progression; what we DO explicitly and specifically want is a deep one that's easy to get into, and allows significant customisation at the end. Eventually, hopefully, CCP Z will have a prototype (lol for overused wording...) and we can make some critiques based on what it is as opposed to what we're interpreting him saying it is. MY ACTUAL NAME IS LORHAK It would seem like wisdom, but for the warning in my heart... CCP BLOWOUT FOR CPM1

Haerr Legio DXIV 618	Posted - 2014.05.14 12:41:00 - [11] - Quote ZDub 303 wrote: Complexity =/= Depth. We want a skill system with depth, not necessarily a skill system with complexity. I agree, the skill system should focus on depth, complexity should come from the fittings it allows you to create. The main problem for new players in understanding the current skill system comes from the lack of explanations of how the skill system (simplistic as it is) works and what it allows. Gating equipment/modules/weapons behind suits is a mistake because it merely tries to shoehorn Dusts existing systems into a BF/CoD version instead of looking at what makes the systems in BF/CoD (+EVE and others) successful and how to complement Dust system with those qualities. If you insist on forcing a role based system onto Dust at least keep it optional. Someone suggested moving closer to EVE by supplementing the skill system with a certificate based system, this is a good (or at least preferable) middle ground. The freedom in the current skill system is a huge perk for Dust and something that sets it apart from its competitors.
Godin Thekiller shadows of 514 2263	Posted - 2014.05.14 19:42:00 - [12] - Quote Syeven Reed wrote: Godin Thekiller wrote: Not sure what you meant by that, but I'm pretty sure you just made it seem like we have lower intelligence than EVE playeres. Dude, most of us play EVE, and all the endgame mechanics that we have for endgame would confuse any players that is just a casual (and casuals don't help build the games). That's a horrible argument, and you need to explain yourself. Peace, Godin Im sure thats not what he meant xD, I sure he just means that Legion isn't a complicated game, and thus doesn't need to have over complications like a skill system that mirrors EvE. So then we can safely assume that PC (or any form of land grabbing( is gone from the equation, as as any form of open world combat (PVPVE), fittings is gone, bonuses are gone, scamming or any kind of serious metagame is gone, etc. You are placing a game in New Eden; of course it's going to be somewhat complex. And it's not like it's hard to get; if they would stop being lazy and add a ***** decent tutorial, it wouldn't be a issue....... Or 90% of gamers are ***** idiots click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Godin Thekiller shadows of 514 2263	Posted - 2014.05.14 19:43:00 - [13] - Quote ZDub 303 wrote: Complexity =/= Depth. We want a skill system with depth, not necessarily a skill system with complexity. Freedom usually goes with complexity. I wish to be free (as we actually get choices in New Eden). I see what your saying though. click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Godin Thekiller shadows of 514 2263	Posted - 2014.05.14 19:45:00 - [14] - Quote TrueXer0z wrote: Casual gamers are what make up the overwhelming majority. They are what pay the bills with a game like Dust514/Legion. Still, doesn't mean we need a derp version of anything. So then most the players in EVE are casuals? Yea, that makes sense. But are they idiots? A small few are, but most are not. click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Godin Thekiller shadows of 514 2263	Posted - 2014.05.14 19:46:00 - [15] - Quote Mia Romani wrote: I don't think he's calling us dumb, I think he's saying we're not the target audience. I raised a concern with this very same comment in the stickied thread; I'm not sure this required a whole new thread. So the people that is attracted to the game is not the target audience? If they are trying to attract people playing AAA FPS's, then good luck to them, as they are just going to fail. EDIT: I said lower intelligence, not dumb click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Gaelon Thrace Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 459	Posted - 2014.05.14 19:46:00 - [16] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: Complexity =/= Depth. We want a skill system with depth, not necessarily a skill system with complexity. Freedom usually goes with complexity. I wish to be free (as we actually get choices in New Eden). I see what your saying though. I believe this is the point he was trying to make. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVL4st0blGU
Godin Thekiller shadows of 514 2263	Posted - 2014.05.14 19:50:00 - [17] - Quote Gaelon Thrace wrote: Godin Thekiller wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: Complexity =/= Depth. We want a skill system with depth, not necessarily a skill system with complexity. Freedom usually goes with complexity. I wish to be free (as we actually get choices in New Eden). I see what your saying though. I believe this is the point he was trying to make. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVL4st0blGU Again, I see what he was saying. complexity doesn't equate to something being in depth. I was just saying that I wanted to be free to choose my path, not a pre-defined path that CCP wants to choose for me. I don't need my hand held. click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Forlorn Destrier 2503	Posted - 2014.05.14 20:39:00 - [18] - Quote Something else to remember are cultural differences. What might offensive to us might not be offensive in his native language and culture.
Godin Thekiller shadows of 514 2267	Posted - 2014.05.14 20:49:00 - [19] - Quote Forlorn Destrier wrote: Something else to remember are cultural differences. What might offensive to us might not be offensive in his native language and culture. I'm not saying that he's insulting us (well, if you think about it, he would be kinda), I'm saying that what he thinks is silly, and who they are aiming for is the wrong thing imo. click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Tallen Ellecon 1924	Posted - 2014.05.14 20:50:00 - [20] - Quote Tooltips, ISIS, certificates, and a proper tutorial are all that's needed. EVE is tons clearer and easier to follow with them, without taking away any of the complexity and customization.

Godin Thekiller shadows of 514 2275	Posted - 2014.05.14 21:03:00 - [21] - Quote Tallen Ellecon wrote: Tooltips, ISIS, certificates, and a proper tutorial are all that's needed. EVE is tons clearer and easier to follow with them, without taking away any of the complexity and customization. My thoughts exactly click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
low genius The Sound Of Freedom 1904	Posted - 2014.05.15 00:50:00 - [22] - Quote red light this dream. eatsbabies cienfuegos steward of the renegade alliance.
Godin Thekiller shadows of 514 2275	Posted - 2014.05.15 00:51:00 - [23] - Quote low genius wrote: red light this dream. Agreed lol click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-

CCP Z C C P C C P Alliance 34	Posted - 2014.05.15 01:26:00 - [24] - Quote Replying just to acknowledge I read this thread. 1- I am not calling anybody dumb 2 - You understand the current system? Cool bro, but the other 95% of the people who tried DUST did not 3 - A good NPE? Yes we are planning on having one. The level of complexity is high enough, we need to make some things more accessible. I won't reply on that thread anymore, I don't know why but I don't find it very constructive :) Monetization and Progression Producer -CCP Z

Leeroy Gannarsein Shining Flame Amarr Empire 91	Posted - 2014.05.15 01:32:00 - [25] - Quote CCP Z wrote: Replying just to acknowledge I read this thread. 1- I am not calling anybody dumb 2 - You understand the current system? Cool bro, but the other 95% of the people who tried DUST did not 3 - A good NPE? Yes we are planning on having one. The level of complexity is high enough, we need to make some things more accessible. I won't reply on that thread anymore, I don't know why but I don't find it very constructive :) Reply to acknowledge you read it!? You are now my favourite DEV after Blowout, and possibly Logibro and Sabrewing. But who knows? More post like this, and... well. MY ACTUAL NAME IS LORHAK It would seem like wisdom, but for the warning in my heart... CCP BLOWOUT FOR CPM1
Ulysses Knapse Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm 1526	Posted - 2014.05.15 01:32:00 - [26] - Quote CCP Z wrote: 1- I am not calling anybody dumb But you are implementing a system that we can infer was made for the less intelligent. CCP Z wrote: 2 - You understand the current system? Cool bro, but the other 95% of the people who tried DUST did not The fault doesn't lie with the system, it lies with how the system was explained. The current system does need some work, but for a completely different reason. CCP Z wrote: 3 - A good NPE? Yes we are planning on having one. The level of complexity is high enough, we need to make some things more accessible. Forcing complexity is a bad thing. Complexity in and of itself is not, and depth certainly isn't. I am become Legion, the destroyer of bunnies.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8557	Posted - 2014.05.15 01:34:00 - [27] - Quote Leeroy Gannarsein wrote: CCP Z wrote: Replying just to acknowledge I read this thread. 1- I am not calling anybody dumb 2 - You understand the current system? Cool bro, but the other 95% of the people who tried DUST did not 3 - A good NPE? Yes we are planning on having one. The level of complexity is high enough, we need to make some things more accessible. I won't reply on that thread anymore, I don't know why but I don't find it very constructive :) Reply to acknowledge you read it!? You are now my favourite DEV after Blowout, and possibly Logibro and Sabrewing. But who knows? More post like this, and... well. Better than no reply at all and get left wondering if anyone read it. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4088	Posted - 2014.05.15 01:37:00 - [28] - Quote As the monetization director this may terrify you, but your current fanbase plays CCP games to get away from the 95% that are too stupid to understand the skill system. And the 95% you are attempting to acquire are not going to stick around for Legion regardless of how you change it, because every other game does what they want better.
Leeroy Gannarsein Shining Flame Amarr Empire 91	Posted - 2014.05.15 01:37:00 - [29] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Leeroy Gannarsein wrote: CCP Z wrote: Replying just to acknowledge I read this thread. 1- I am not calling anybody dumb 2 - You understand the current system? Cool bro, but the other 95% of the people who tried DUST did not 3 - A good NPE? Yes we are planning on having one. The level of complexity is high enough, we need to make some things more accessible. I won't reply on that thread anymore, I don't know why but I don't find it very constructive :) Reply to acknowledge you read it!? You are now my favourite DEV after Blowout, and possibly Logibro and Sabrewing. But who knows? More post like this, and... well. Better than no reply at all and get left wondering if anyone read it. That was actually my entire point MY ACTUAL NAME IS LORHAK It would seem like wisdom, but for the warning in my heart... CCP BLOWOUT FOR CPM1
ANON Cerberus Tiny Toons 669	Posted - 2014.05.15 01:39:00 - [30] - Quote CCP Z wrote: Replying just to acknowledge I read this thread. 1- I am not calling anybody dumb 2 - You understand the current system? Cool bro, but the other 95% of the people who tried DUST did not 3 - A good NPE? Yes we are planning on having one. The level of complexity is high enough, we need to make some things more accessible. I won't reply on that thread anymore, I don't know why but I don't find it very constructive :) CCP Z - replying like this, even when you are disagreeing with people, is great to see. We appreciate the dev time you guys are spending not only on Legion but on discussing with the community as well. Big thumbs up - even if I am still a little concerned about the new progression system. P.S - Will the new system have higher payouts for matches that are matched at the high meta level? (I.E we will have the option to make enough isk to run prototype stuff without having to use cheap stuff, or is that part of the game something you want to keep?) By the way I am not saying I support that, I am just trying to get a better understanding.


CCP Z C C P C C P Alliance 40	Posted - 2014.05.15 01:40:00 - [31] - Quote Ulysses Knapse wrote: But you are implementing a system that we can infer was made for the less intelligent. No, easier to understand for people that still want to play the game Ulysses Knapse wrote: The fault doesn't lie with the system, it lies with how the system was explained. The current system does need some work, but for a completely different reason.. The system remains the same: many choices, freedom to create your own and customized fitting, we just present it differently Ulysses Knapse wrote: Forcing complexity is a bad thing. Complexity in and of itself is not, and depth certainly isn't. Complexity is already in and cannot stay that way. Monetization and Progression Producer -CCP Z

Ulysses Knapse Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm 1526	Posted - 2014.05.15 01:44:00 - [32] - Quote CCP Z wrote: The system remains the same: many choices, freedom to create your own and customized fitting, we just present it differently Your progression system is tainted. It has no place in New Eden. It just doesn't make sense. Sure, it's easier to understand how, but it's harder to understand why. I do not take kindly to you trying to shoehorn us into specific roles. You're killing creativity, even if the options are still there. I am become Legion, the destroyer of bunnies.
Leeroy Gannarsein Shining Flame Amarr Empire 91	Posted - 2014.05.15 01:51:00 - [33] - Quote Ulysses Knapse wrote: CCP Z wrote: The system remains the same: many choices, freedom to create your own and customized fitting, we just present it differently Your progression system is tainted. It has no place in New Eden. It just doesn't make sense. Sure, it's easier to understand how, but it's harder to understand why. I don't know about that... When I was a baby Merc back in Chromosome, I was walking around shooting people with my rifle, and suddenly a guy with a mini gun melts me. I thought 'ooh damn I want one of those!' And I went and got one. And then I discovered I needed a suit for it, too ( didn't realise MLT was a thing...). So then I went and did that. As long as they're not constraining us by role, and just structuring it by role, which seems to be the case, I can fit as many RRs to my sentinels as I have slots (i.e. One.); I just need to invest a small amount of SP to unlock them. Looking at the tree Z provided, weapons are the lowest branch of the tree; in conjunction with DUST's layout with the cheapest being at the bottom, I very much doubt that the investment will be high, and for people like myself back in my noob stage, it'd be very helpful. And once you work out how to customise your fittings properly and competently without needing your hand held, you shod have enough SP to skill things anyway. I'm just not sold on the loss of the 1-5 system, tbh, or more specifically (because it is a stupid system IMO) the loss of complexity from the loss of prototype modules. If I can fit a basic reactive and a complex extender to my suit in Legion (or the equivalents thereof) I will be happy. MY ACTUAL NAME IS LORHAK It would seem like wisdom, but for the warning in my heart... CCP BLOWOUT FOR CPM1
Godin Thekiller shadows of 514 2276	Posted - 2014.05.15 02:03:00 - [34] - Quote CCP Z wrote: Replying just to acknowledge I read this thread. 1- I am not calling anybody dumb 2 - You understand the current system? Cool bro, but the other 95% of the people who tried DUST did not 3 - A good NPE? Yes we are planning on having one. The level of complexity is high enough, we need to make some things more accessible. I won't reply on that thread anymore, I don't know why but I don't find it very constructive :) Thanks for reading! First off, I wasn't saying that you were calling us dumb; I simply thought that you were saying that we were less intelligent than people who play EVE. If we were dumb, I doubt we would be able to find dust, and the off chance that we did, I doubt that we'd get through the process of figuring everything out. Second off, again, if it was explained well through a actual tutorial, maybe people would understand the system. It's like learning to multiply; you can figure it out by staring at it long enough, but if someone teaches you it, the process will be a lot quicker. Lastly, again, the people you are talking to right now are the kind of people who are attracted to dust (and therefore Legion) on a long term scale. Firstly, most idiots are on consoles (which we are mostly going away from). Secondly, adding a actual tutorial would educate the newer players who are not familiar with the system. If the tutorial is proficient (as in not the abomination that we have in dust), then we will probably have a hell of a lot more people who get it. It becomes a non-issue. So I ask a simple question: Why is making a system that limits people is better than a system that is open (therefore not limiting people), and then explaining the system to people don't get it (so they will get it, and might stick around to make something out of it)? click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Godin Thekiller shadows of 514 2276	Posted - 2014.05.15 02:06:00 - [35] - Quote Leeroy Gannarsein wrote: Ulysses Knapse wrote: CCP Z wrote: The system remains the same: many choices, freedom to create your own and customized fitting, we just present it differently Your progression system is tainted. It has no place in New Eden. It just doesn't make sense. Sure, it's easier to understand how, but it's harder to understand why. I don't know about that... When I was a baby Merc back in Chromosome, I was walking around shooting people with my rifle, and suddenly a guy with a mini gun melts me. I thought 'ooh damn I want one of those!' And I went and got one. And then I discovered I needed a suit for it, too ( didn't realise MLT was a thing...). So then I went and did that. As long as they're not constraining us by role, and just structuring it by role, which seems to be the case, I can fit as many RRs to my sentinels as I have slots (i.e. One.); I just need to invest a small amount of SP to unlock them. Looking at the tree Z provided, weapons are the lowest branch of the tree; in conjunction with DUST's layout with the cheapest being at the bottom, I very much doubt that the investment will be high, and for people like myself back in my noob stage, it'd be very helpful. And once you work out how to customise your fittings properly and competently without needing your hand held, you shod have enough SP to skill things anyway. I'm just not sold on the loss of the 1-5 system, tbh, or more specifically (because it is a stupid system IMO) the loss of complexity from the loss of prototype modules. If I can fit a basic reactive and a complex extender to my suit in Legion (or the equivalents thereof) I will be happy. What if I want to be a Scout with a Assault CR? Oh wait, going to be forced to go down a path that I don't want to go down. There's no excuse for restricting something here like that. click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Cyrus Militani Leon Conglomerate 64	Posted - 2014.05.16 20:09:00 - [36] - Quote CCP Z wrote: Replying just to acknowledge I read this thread. 1- I am not calling anybody dumb 2 - You understand the current system? Cool bro, but the other 95% of the people who tried DUST did not 3 - A good NPE? Yes we are planning on having one. The level of complexity is high enough, we need to make some things more accessible. I won't reply on that thread anymore, I don't know why but I don't find it very constructive :) 95% of the people who tried DUST did not? Where does this number come from? Can I please see a study that proves this? Because I am willing to bet that most people that gave up on DUST did not enjoy being thrown to the proto-wolves after 2-3 academy battles. It has very little to do with the skill progression system. The skill progression system only limits what players can do. If someone brings out a proto tank, I can't bring out a proto swarm launcher because I haven't skilled into it, even though I have plenty of ISK to buy one. Remove the skill tree and proto stomping will quickly be tempered by the economy. Would that mean that anyone can buy all proto gear? Yes, and that's a good thing. But it may not always be the smartest thing to do. Buying better quality gear will deplete my wallet much faster than buying more economical fits. Does this mean that corporations can provide proto gear to their members? Yes. For that, I say: Welcome to New Eden. If you allowed people to choose who to fight and where, avoiding certain players becomes a strategic maneuver.
Godin Thekiller shadows of 514 2306	Posted - 2014.05.16 20:25:00 - [37] - Quote Cyrus Militani wrote: CCP Z wrote: Replying just to acknowledge I read this thread. 1- I am not calling anybody dumb 2 - You understand the current system? Cool bro, but the other 95% of the people who tried DUST did not 3 - A good NPE? Yes we are planning on having one. The level of complexity is high enough, we need to make some things more accessible. I won't reply on that thread anymore, I don't know why but I don't find it very constructive :) 95% of the people who tried DUST did not? Where does this number come from? Can I please see a study that proves this? Because I am willing to bet that most people that gave up on DUST did not enjoy being thrown to the proto-wolves after 2-3 academy battles. It has very little to do with the skill progression system. The skill progression system only limits what players can do. If someone brings out a proto tank, I can't bring out a proto swarm launcher because I haven't skilled into it, even though I have plenty of ISK to buy one. Remove the skill tree and proto stomping will quickly be tempered by the economy. Would that mean that anyone can buy all proto gear? Yes, and that's a good thing. But it may not always be the smartest thing to do. Buying better quality gear will deplete my wallet much faster than buying more economical fits. Does this mean that corporations can provide proto gear to their members? Yes. For that, I say: Welcome to New Eden. If you allowed people to choose who to fight and where, avoiding certain players becomes a strategic maneuver. PROTO stomping is caused by the fact that Dust is a lobby shooter with no matchmaking, not because of the SP system...... click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Sarus Rambo Direct Action Resources 159	Posted - 2014.05.16 21:06:00 - [38] - Quote CCP Z wrote: Replying just to acknowledge I read this thread. 1- I am not calling anybody dumb 2 - You understand the current system? Cool bro, but the other 95% of the people who tried DUST did not 3 - A good NPE? Yes we are planning on having one. The level of complexity is high enough, we need to make some things more accessible. I won't reply on that thread anymore, I don't know why but I don't find it very constructive :) I'm just looking for a little clarification: When the presentation goes over how weapons will be grouped by roles. Does this mean you have to have an assault suit to unlock the assault riffle? Or will we have a system like the current system, but instead of everything in the "light weapons" or "heavy weapons" group you'll have sections designated by role? I really hate the former and would much prefer the latter. Also, as far as the weapons, broken up into common, uncommon, and rare, Id like to say this really doesn't fit with the spirit of EvE. It fits more in the Blizzard Diabo/WoW realm of things. I believe if you're going to call them anything, call them either Tech I, Tech II, or Factional weapons. I would say as well that no weapon should be better then a previous version, it should have different qualities, or have more strengths but more weaknesses. I'm not into the whole "Every suit is a BPO" either. The emotional attachment is to the fitting, not to the suit itself. Losing your suit is a unique twist that should stick around, it gives this FPS a unique twist which is a good thing. This sums up 100% of the forum posts after Fanfest 2014.
Godin Thekiller shadows of 514 2306	Posted - 2014.05.16 21:07:00 - [39] - Quote Sarus Rambo wrote: CCP Z wrote: Replying just to acknowledge I read this thread. 1- I am not calling anybody dumb 2 - You understand the current system? Cool bro, but the other 95% of the people who tried DUST did not 3 - A good NPE? Yes we are planning on having one. The level of complexity is high enough, we need to make some things more accessible. I won't reply on that thread anymore, I don't know why but I don't find it very constructive :) I'm just looking for a little clarification: When the presentation goes over how weapons will be grouped by roles. Does this mean you have to have an assault suit to unlock the assault riffle? Or will we have a system like the current system, but instead of everything in the "light weapons" or "heavy weapons" group you'll have sections designated by role? I really hate the former and would much prefer the latter. Also, as far as the weapons, broken up into common, uncommon, and rare, Id like to say this really doesn't fit with the spirit of EvE. It fits more in the Blizzard Diabo/WoW realm of things. I believe if you're going to call them anything, call them either Tech I, Tech II, or Factional weapons. I would say as well that no weapon should be better then a previous version, it should have different qualities, or have more strengths but more weaknesses. I'm not into the whole "Every suit is a BPO" either. The emotional attachment is to the fitting, not to the suit itself. Losing your suit is a unique twist that should stick around, it gives this FPS a unique twist which is a good thing. NO, he's saying that you'd have to go down the assault path to get the assault versions of the AR's. click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Godin Thekiller shadows of 514 2306	Posted - 2014.05.16 21:08:00 - [40] - Quote Sarus Rambo wrote: CCP Z wrote: Replying just to acknowledge I read this thread. 1- I am not calling anybody dumb 2 - You understand the current system? Cool bro, but the other 95% of the people who tried DUST did not 3 - A good NPE? Yes we are planning on having one. The level of complexity is high enough, we need to make some things more accessible. I won't reply on that thread anymore, I don't know why but I don't find it very constructive :) I'm just looking for a little clarification: When the presentation goes over how weapons will be grouped by roles. Does this mean you have to have an assault suit to unlock the assault riffle? Or will we have a system like the current system, but instead of everything in the "light weapons" or "heavy weapons" group you'll have sections designated by role? I really hate the former and would much prefer the latter. Also, as far as the weapons, broken up into common, uncommon, and rare, Id like to say this really doesn't fit with the spirit of EvE. It fits more in the Blizzard Diabo/WoW realm of things. I believe if you're going to call them anything, call them either Tech I, Tech II, or Factional weapons. I would say as well that no weapon should be better then a previous version, it should have different qualities, or have more strengths but more weaknesses. I'm not into the whole "Every suit is a BPO" either. The emotional attachment is to the fitting, not to the suit itself. Losing your suit is a unique twist that should stick around, it gives this FPS a unique twist which is a good thing. T I, T II, and faction (and all the rest that you obviously missed ) =/= tiers.......... click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-


CCP Saberwing C C P C C P Alliance 4768	Posted - 2014.05.17 02:46:00 - [41] - Quote Ulysses Knapse wrote: CCP Z wrote: The system remains the same: many choices, freedom to create your own and customized fitting, we just present it differently Your progression system is tainted. It has no place in New Eden. I disagree. It may not have a place or feel fit in EVE, but to make a sweeping assumption like this in regards to New Eden as a whole (and by proxy, every game that is set in the Universe) is fairly presumptious. EVE, Valkyrie and Project Legion are different games, with different intended audiences and playtimes (see the CCP Presents Keynote). CCP Saberwing // DUST 514 Community Manager // @kanafchian

Mobius Wyvern Ahrendee Mercenaries 5276	Posted - 2014.05.17 03:00:00 - [42] - Quote CCP Z wrote: Ulysses Knapse wrote: But you are implementing a system that we can infer was made for the less intelligent. No, easier to understand for people that still want to play the game Ulysses Knapse wrote: The fault doesn't lie with the system, it lies with how the system was explained. The current system does need some work, but for a completely different reason.. The system remains the same: many choices, freedom to create your own and customized fitting, we just present it differently Ulysses Knapse wrote: Forcing complexity is a bad thing. Complexity in and of itself is not, and depth certainly isn't. Complexity is already in and cannot stay that way. So are we to understand from this that rather than completely changing up the skill system, you're putting together a different and more clear way to present it? I can get behind that, but I'm curious if we'll still have the option of using the "Skill List" if we want to unlock things at our own pace?
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4186	Posted - 2014.05.17 07:03:00 - [43] - Quote CCP Saberwing wrote: Ulysses Knapse wrote: CCP Z wrote: The system remains the same: many choices, freedom to create your own and customized fitting, we just present it differently Your progression system is tainted. It has no place in New Eden. I disagree. It may not have a place or feel fit in EVE, but to make a sweeping assumption like this in regards to New Eden as a whole (and by proxy, every game that is set in the Universe) is fairly presumptious. EVE, Valkyrie and Project Legion are different games, with different intended audiences and playtimes (see the CCP Presents Keynote). The intended audience for Legion as described by CCP Z does not exist within the spectrum of what you are capable of providing. To make a casual game would be fine, except that the mechanics don't work well enough to reach the massive braindead audience and CCP has never been able to provide that kind of experience outside of Valkyrie.
Godin Thekiller shadows of 514 2313	Posted - 2014.05.17 15:51:00 - [44] - Quote CCP Saberwing wrote: Ulysses Knapse wrote: CCP Z wrote: The system remains the same: many choices, freedom to create your own and customized fitting, we just present it differently Your progression system is tainted. It has no place in New Eden. I disagree. It may not have a place or feel fit in EVE, but to make a sweeping assumption like this in regards to New Eden as a whole (and by proxy, every game that is set in the Universe) is fairly presumptious. EVE, Valkyrie and Project Legion are different games, with different intended audiences and playtimes (see the CCP Presents Keynote). Who Z described for Legion to go for is already playing COD and BF. They see Legion, and say "it's soo hard, don't want it". You're literally putting in open world and things like PC and FW as well as a full player market and you think they'll get that if they couldn't understand a goddamn skill system? LOL. Explain it, and fix the actual problems with the system rather than limit me (as limiting me will **** me off in a game advertised had a lot of freedom). click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Ceerix MKII Arrogance. 79	Posted - 2014.05.17 18:48:00 - [45] - Quote The current 5 tier system adds choice in SP investment compared to reward. To a new player can get 1-3 LV in a skill with minimal investment while still adding a lot to whats available to them in game. While an older player will come back to the same skill and get it to level 5 because they need the extra few % to get a slight edge. This part of the system that needs to move into legion. What legion doesn't need is all the 5 tier skills that unlock items at 1,3,5 and that's it. They just act as clutter on the skill screen and how no purpose at 2,4. Also when adding extra ammo to a firearm, there is no reason for it to be a %. They could be changed into a 2 tier skill, each level giving another clip/magazine worth of ammo. The hard thing is for a new player to understand what skills are affecting what piece of gear, or what they need to use it. A solution to this would be use the fitting screen in a mode that acts like Pyfa/EFT in EVE. The player use the tool knowing it doesn't represent their current ability to use it. But they still are able to see the fit they want to use in the game. Then they can visually see what skills are in red and level them right there if they have the SP. Combine this with each of the equipment showing all the skills that currently affect it. So an older player can see what would happen to if it was maxed out. Cliffs: 1. Current system is fine needs a few minor changes. 2. Over complexity of current system comes from how the player have to use it. Not the way it works. 3. We need an IN GAME Pyfa/EFT like tool.
Godin Thekiller shadows of 514 2316	Posted - 2014.05.18 00:30:00 - [46] - Quote Ceerix MKII wrote: The current 5 tier system adds choice in SP investment compared to reward. To a new player can get 1-3 LV in a skill with minimal investment while still adding a lot to whats available to them in game. While an older player will come back to the same skill and get it to level 5 because they need the extra few % to get a slight edge. This part of the system that needs to move into legion. What legion doesn't need is all the 5 tier skills that unlock items at 1,3,5 and that's it. They just act as clutter on the skill screen and how no purpose at 2,4. Also when adding extra ammo to a firearm, there is no reason for it to be a %. They could be changed into a 2 tier skill, each level giving another clip/magazine worth of ammo. The hard thing is for a new player to understand what skills are affecting what piece of gear, or what they need to use it. A solution to this would be use the fitting screen in a mode that acts like Pyfa/EFT in EVE. The player use the tool knowing it doesn't represent their current ability to use it. But they still are able to see the fit they want to use in the game. Then they can visually see what skills are in red and level them right there if they have the SP. Combine this with each of the equipment showing all the skills that currently affect it. So an older player can see what would happen to if it was maxed out. Cliffs: 1. Current system is fine needs a few minor changes. 2. Over complexity of current system comes from how the player have to use it. Not the way it works. 3. We need an IN GAME Pyfa/EFT like tool. Agreed click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Sarus Rambo Direct Action Resources 165	Posted - 2014.05.18 18:45:00 - [47] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: NO, he's saying that you'd have to go down the assault path to get the assault versions of the AR's. This is pretty lame. How about splitting the tree up by racial parity? For example: Caldari dropsuit -> Caldari medium, heavy, light -> specialized suits. Caldari weaponary -> Caldari Light, Heavy, Sidaarm -> specialized weapon skills. Caldari Vehicles -> Caldari LAV, HAV, DS -> specialized vehicles. Then when someone is picking there race, explain to them that races doctrine. - Caldari prefer long range weapons like railguns and missles with strong shield defenses. - Minmatar prefer explosive weaponry along with high rate of fire weapons and speed. - Gallante prefer plasma based close range weaponry and quick repairing armor. - Ammar prefer laser based medium ranged weaponry and heavy armor. Then you have your person pick what fits their play style the best and you will see them naturally progress into the racial variants of their suits and weapons. Then you just need to actually balance each weapon that parity's with another racial weapon (ie combat rifle <-> rail rifle <-> plasma rifle <-> scrambler rifle). This sums up 100% of the forum posts after Fanfest 2014.
Godin Thekiller shadows of 514 2322	Posted - 2014.05.18 19:03:00 - [48] - Quote Sarus Rambo wrote: Godin Thekiller wrote: NO, he's saying that you'd have to go down the assault path to get the assault versions of the AR's. This is pretty lame. How about splitting the tree up by racial parity? For example: Caldari dropsuit -> Caldari medium, heavy, light -> specialized suits. Caldari weaponary -> Caldari Light, Heavy, Sidaarm -> specialized weapon skills. Caldari Vehicles -> Caldari LAV, HAV, DS -> specialized vehicles. Then when someone is picking there race, explain to them that races doctrine. - Caldari prefer long range weapons like railguns and missles with strong shield defenses. - Minmatar prefer explosive weaponry along with high rate of fire weapons and speed. - Gallante prefer plasma based close range weaponry and quick repairing armor. - Ammar prefer laser based medium ranged weaponry and heavy armor. Then you have your person pick what fits their play style the best and you will see them naturally progress into the racial variants of their suits and weapons. Then you just need to actually balance each weapon that parity's with another racial weapon (ie combat rifle <-> rail rifle <-> plasma rifle <-> scrambler rifle). That's still bad, as I don't want to be forced down a Caldari tree for a Magsec. click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-


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