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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 4 post(s)
Godin Thekiller shadows of 514 2258	Posted - 2014.05.14 10:59:00 - [1] - Quote CCP Z wrote: I donGÇÖt necessarily agree with the EVE example, it remains a really difficult progression system to understand. Legion is not and will not be EVE, even if both games share the same universe. We have many reasons justifying that choice: we are not the same business model (subscription vs free to play), we are not talking to the same target audience (hardcore MMO players vs Online FPS Players). That isnGÇÖt to say that their progression system isnGÇÖt great and applicable to EVE GÇô only that it does not necessarily fit the game we want Project Legion to become. I think that the new system will allow both: accessibility for new users to understand, while keeping the high level complexity of mix-matching modules, weapons and Dropsuits. Not sure what you meant by that, but I'm pretty sure you just made it seem like we have lower intelligence than EVE playeres. Dude, most of us play EVE, and all the endgame mechanics that we have for endgame would confuse any players that is just a casual (and casuals don't help build the games). That's a horrible argument, and you need to explain yourself. Peace, Godin click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Spectral Clone Dust2Dust. Top Men. 2650	Posted - 2014.05.14 11:02:00 - [2] - Quote He is having a difficult time to follow the Dust 514 skill tree, like he mentioned in his presentation at FanFest. Git fcking guuuuuuud. This message was brought to you by the PC master race.
Syeven Reed G0DS AM0NG MEN 637	Posted - 2014.05.14 11:03:00 - [3] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: Not sure what you meant by that, but I'm pretty sure you just made it seem like we have lower intelligence than EVE playeres. Dude, most of us play EVE, and all the endgame mechanics that we have for endgame would confuse any players that is just a casual (and casuals don't help build the games). That's a horrible argument, and you need to explain yourself. Peace, Godin Im sure thats not what he meant xD, I sure he just means that Legion isn't a complicated game, and thus doesn't need to have over complications like a skill system that mirrors EvE. Twitter MajLagSpike CPM Application
Spectral Clone Dust2Dust. Top Men. 2650	Posted - 2014.05.14 11:06:00 - [4] - Quote CCP - Masters of the universe at PR. This message was brought to you by the PC master race.
Mia Romani Nexus Marines 94	Posted - 2014.05.14 11:07:00 - [5] - Quote I don't think he's calling us dumb, I think he's saying we're not the target audience. I raised a concern with this very same comment in the stickied thread; I'm not sure this required a whole new thread. Interstellar Crossroads

CCP Saberwing C C P C C P Alliance 4607	Posted - 2014.05.14 11:24:00 - [6] - Quote Mia Romani wrote: I don't think he's calling us dumb Wellllllllllllllllllllll....... nah, only kidding Obviously not what he meant. CCP Saberwing // DUST 514 Community Manager // @kanafchian

Spectral Clone Dust2Dust. Top Men. 2653	Posted - 2014.05.14 12:07:00 - [7] - Quote CCP Saberwing wrote: Mia Romani wrote: I don't think he's calling us dumb Wellllllllllllllllllllll....... nah, only kidding Obviously not what he meant. Then give us a complex skill tree please. Dont underestimate your players just because you devs are scrubs, k? :D This message was brought to you by the PC master race.
TrueXer0z DUST University Ivy League 543	Posted - 2014.05.14 12:15:00 - [8] - Quote Casual gamers are what make up the overwhelming majority. They are what pay the bills with a game like Dust514/Legion. Still, doesn't mean we need a derp version of anything. Director, Dust University @TrueXer0z *Kevall Longstride - CPM1*
ZDub 303 TeamPlayers Dirt Nap Squad. 2880	Posted - 2014.05.14 12:19:00 - [9] - Quote Complexity =/= Depth. We want a skill system with depth, not necessarily a skill system with complexity.
Leeroy Gannarsein Shining Flame Amarr Empire 77	Posted - 2014.05.14 12:31:00 - [10] - Quote ZDub 303 wrote: Complexity =/= Depth. We want a skill system with depth, not necessarily a skill system with complexity. I think it is safe to say that we explicitly and specifically do not want a 'complex' skill progression; what we DO explicitly and specifically want is a deep one that's easy to get into, and allows significant customisation at the end. Eventually, hopefully, CCP Z will have a prototype (lol for overused wording...) and we can make some critiques based on what it is as opposed to what we're interpreting him saying it is. MY ACTUAL NAME IS LORHAK It would seem like wisdom, but for the warning in my heart... CCP BLOWOUT FOR CPM1

Haerr Legio DXIV 618	Posted - 2014.05.14 12:41:00 - [11] - Quote ZDub 303 wrote: Complexity =/= Depth. We want a skill system with depth, not necessarily a skill system with complexity. I agree, the skill system should focus on depth, complexity should come from the fittings it allows you to create. The main problem for new players in understanding the current skill system comes from the lack of explanations of how the skill system (simplistic as it is) works and what it allows. Gating equipment/modules/weapons behind suits is a mistake because it merely tries to shoehorn Dusts existing systems into a BF/CoD version instead of looking at what makes the systems in BF/CoD (+EVE and others) successful and how to complement Dust system with those qualities. If you insist on forcing a role based system onto Dust at least keep it optional. Someone suggested moving closer to EVE by supplementing the skill system with a certificate based system, this is a good (or at least preferable) middle ground. The freedom in the current skill system is a huge perk for Dust and something that sets it apart from its competitors.
Godin Thekiller shadows of 514 2263	Posted - 2014.05.14 19:42:00 - [12] - Quote Syeven Reed wrote: Godin Thekiller wrote: Not sure what you meant by that, but I'm pretty sure you just made it seem like we have lower intelligence than EVE playeres. Dude, most of us play EVE, and all the endgame mechanics that we have for endgame would confuse any players that is just a casual (and casuals don't help build the games). That's a horrible argument, and you need to explain yourself. Peace, Godin Im sure thats not what he meant xD, I sure he just means that Legion isn't a complicated game, and thus doesn't need to have over complications like a skill system that mirrors EvE. So then we can safely assume that PC (or any form of land grabbing( is gone from the equation, as as any form of open world combat (PVPVE), fittings is gone, bonuses are gone, scamming or any kind of serious metagame is gone, etc. You are placing a game in New Eden; of course it's going to be somewhat complex. And it's not like it's hard to get; if they would stop being lazy and add a ***** decent tutorial, it wouldn't be a issue....... Or 90% of gamers are ***** idiots click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Godin Thekiller shadows of 514 2263	Posted - 2014.05.14 19:43:00 - [13] - Quote ZDub 303 wrote: Complexity =/= Depth. We want a skill system with depth, not necessarily a skill system with complexity. Freedom usually goes with complexity. I wish to be free (as we actually get choices in New Eden). I see what your saying though. click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Godin Thekiller shadows of 514 2263	Posted - 2014.05.14 19:45:00 - [14] - Quote TrueXer0z wrote: Casual gamers are what make up the overwhelming majority. They are what pay the bills with a game like Dust514/Legion. Still, doesn't mean we need a derp version of anything. So then most the players in EVE are casuals? Yea, that makes sense. But are they idiots? A small few are, but most are not. click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Godin Thekiller shadows of 514 2263	Posted - 2014.05.14 19:46:00 - [15] - Quote Mia Romani wrote: I don't think he's calling us dumb, I think he's saying we're not the target audience. I raised a concern with this very same comment in the stickied thread; I'm not sure this required a whole new thread. So the people that is attracted to the game is not the target audience? If they are trying to attract people playing AAA FPS's, then good luck to them, as they are just going to fail. EDIT: I said lower intelligence, not dumb click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Gaelon Thrace Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 459	Posted - 2014.05.14 19:46:00 - [16] - Quote Godin Thekiller wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: Complexity =/= Depth. We want a skill system with depth, not necessarily a skill system with complexity. Freedom usually goes with complexity. I wish to be free (as we actually get choices in New Eden). I see what your saying though. I believe this is the point he was trying to make. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVL4st0blGU
Godin Thekiller shadows of 514 2263	Posted - 2014.05.14 19:50:00 - [17] - Quote Gaelon Thrace wrote: Godin Thekiller wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: Complexity =/= Depth. We want a skill system with depth, not necessarily a skill system with complexity. Freedom usually goes with complexity. I wish to be free (as we actually get choices in New Eden). I see what your saying though. I believe this is the point he was trying to make. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVL4st0blGU Again, I see what he was saying. complexity doesn't equate to something being in depth. I was just saying that I wanted to be free to choose my path, not a pre-defined path that CCP wants to choose for me. I don't need my hand held. click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Forlorn Destrier 2503	Posted - 2014.05.14 20:39:00 - [18] - Quote Something else to remember are cultural differences. What might offensive to us might not be offensive in his native language and culture.
Godin Thekiller shadows of 514 2267	Posted - 2014.05.14 20:49:00 - [19] - Quote Forlorn Destrier wrote: Something else to remember are cultural differences. What might offensive to us might not be offensive in his native language and culture. I'm not saying that he's insulting us (well, if you think about it, he would be kinda), I'm saying that what he thinks is silly, and who they are aiming for is the wrong thing imo. click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Tallen Ellecon 1924	Posted - 2014.05.14 20:50:00 - [20] - Quote Tooltips, ISIS, certificates, and a proper tutorial are all that's needed. EVE is tons clearer and easier to follow with them, without taking away any of the complexity and customization.

Godin Thekiller shadows of 514 2275	Posted - 2014.05.14 21:03:00 - [21] - Quote Tallen Ellecon wrote: Tooltips, ISIS, certificates, and a proper tutorial are all that's needed. EVE is tons clearer and easier to follow with them, without taking away any of the complexity and customization. My thoughts exactly click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
low genius The Sound Of Freedom 1904	Posted - 2014.05.15 00:50:00 - [22] - Quote red light this dream. eatsbabies cienfuegos steward of the renegade alliance.
Godin Thekiller shadows of 514 2275	Posted - 2014.05.15 00:51:00 - [23] - Quote low genius wrote: red light this dream. Agreed lol click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-

CCP Z C C P C C P Alliance 34	Posted - 2014.05.15 01:26:00 - [24] - Quote Replying just to acknowledge I read this thread. 1- I am not calling anybody dumb 2 - You understand the current system? Cool bro, but the other 95% of the people who tried DUST did not 3 - A good NPE? Yes we are planning on having one. The level of complexity is high enough, we need to make some things more accessible. I won't reply on that thread anymore, I don't know why but I don't find it very constructive :) Monetization and Progression Producer -CCP Z

Leeroy Gannarsein Shining Flame Amarr Empire 91	Posted - 2014.05.15 01:32:00 - [25] - Quote CCP Z wrote: Replying just to acknowledge I read this thread. 1- I am not calling anybody dumb 2 - You understand the current system? Cool bro, but the other 95% of the people who tried DUST did not 3 - A good NPE? Yes we are planning on having one. The level of complexity is high enough, we need to make some things more accessible. I won't reply on that thread anymore, I don't know why but I don't find it very constructive :) Reply to acknowledge you read it!? You are now my favourite DEV after Blowout, and possibly Logibro and Sabrewing. But who knows? More post like this, and... well. MY ACTUAL NAME IS LORHAK It would seem like wisdom, but for the warning in my heart... CCP BLOWOUT FOR CPM1
Ulysses Knapse Knapse and Co. Mercenary Firm 1526	Posted - 2014.05.15 01:32:00 - [26] - Quote CCP Z wrote: 1- I am not calling anybody dumb But you are implementing a system that we can infer was made for the less intelligent. CCP Z wrote: 2 - You understand the current system? Cool bro, but the other 95% of the people who tried DUST did not The fault doesn't lie with the system, it lies with how the system was explained. The current system does need some work, but for a completely different reason. CCP Z wrote: 3 - A good NPE? Yes we are planning on having one. The level of complexity is high enough, we need to make some things more accessible. Forcing complexity is a bad thing. Complexity in and of itself is not, and depth certainly isn't. I am become Legion, the destroyer of bunnies.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8557	Posted - 2014.05.15 01:34:00 - [27] - Quote Leeroy Gannarsein wrote: CCP Z wrote: Replying just to acknowledge I read this thread. 1- I am not calling anybody dumb 2 - You understand the current system? Cool bro, but the other 95% of the people who tried DUST did not 3 - A good NPE? Yes we are planning on having one. The level of complexity is high enough, we need to make some things more accessible. I won't reply on that thread anymore, I don't know why but I don't find it very constructive :) Reply to acknowledge you read it!? You are now my favourite DEV after Blowout, and possibly Logibro and Sabrewing. But who knows? More post like this, and... well. Better than no reply at all and get left wondering if anyone read it. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4088	Posted - 2014.05.15 01:37:00 - [28] - Quote As the monetization director this may terrify you, but your current fanbase plays CCP games to get away from the 95% that are too stupid to understand the skill system. And the 95% you are attempting to acquire are not going to stick around for Legion regardless of how you change it, because every other game does what they want better.
Leeroy Gannarsein Shining Flame Amarr Empire 91	Posted - 2014.05.15 01:37:00 - [29] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Leeroy Gannarsein wrote: CCP Z wrote: Replying just to acknowledge I read this thread. 1- I am not calling anybody dumb 2 - You understand the current system? Cool bro, but the other 95% of the people who tried DUST did not 3 - A good NPE? Yes we are planning on having one. The level of complexity is high enough, we need to make some things more accessible. I won't reply on that thread anymore, I don't know why but I don't find it very constructive :) Reply to acknowledge you read it!? You are now my favourite DEV after Blowout, and possibly Logibro and Sabrewing. But who knows? More post like this, and... well. Better than no reply at all and get left wondering if anyone read it. That was actually my entire point MY ACTUAL NAME IS LORHAK It would seem like wisdom, but for the warning in my heart... CCP BLOWOUT FOR CPM1
ANON Cerberus Tiny Toons 669	Posted - 2014.05.15 01:39:00 - [30] - Quote CCP Z wrote: Replying just to acknowledge I read this thread. 1- I am not calling anybody dumb 2 - You understand the current system? Cool bro, but the other 95% of the people who tried DUST did not 3 - A good NPE? Yes we are planning on having one. The level of complexity is high enough, we need to make some things more accessible. I won't reply on that thread anymore, I don't know why but I don't find it very constructive :) CCP Z - replying like this, even when you are disagreeing with people, is great to see. We appreciate the dev time you guys are spending not only on Legion but on discussing with the community as well. Big thumbs up - even if I am still a little concerned about the new progression system. P.S - Will the new system have higher payouts for matches that are matched at the high meta level? (I.E we will have the option to make enough isk to run prototype stuff without having to use cheap stuff, or is that part of the game something you want to keep?) By the way I am not saying I support that, I am just trying to get a better understanding.



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