Please remember Legion isn't even greenlit yet. Everything at fanfest as just their plans of what they'd like to do.

Reason why commandos aren't there is because they wanted to focus on their 4 main roles, and because the commando skill tree overlapped with too many of the things in the other branches.

It's because CCP created the commando to be the master of light weapons, and unless they created a bunch of NEW weapons (think commando variants with insane reload times, high ROF or something), it would throw off their idea for the role tree.

Each role tree has different unlockables, like the assault branch having most of the assault weapons, and the sentinel branch having a lot of the breach weapons. It's not limited to these suits, but you just unlock them in these paths because it benefits new players and getting to know certain playstyles and weapons instead of giving them such a huge variety to choose from in the beginning with no idea what to skill into.

To you guys in this thread saying its still being worked on I have to ask you this
When was the last time they showed us something that was "being worked on" with the end result actually being different from what they showed
Seriously think of how many times they showed us a work in progress and got feedback on why this or that might not work but went ahead with their original plan anyway

I believe the earlier Dust trailers come to mind. Moving MCC's piloted by a player.

Also, the sidearms for 1.8 were toned down to fit with the rest of the weapon TTK nerf. Decloaking without pressing the button was also "Work in Progress" meant to drain 100% of your cloak field reserve also. They do listen and adjust, but they also make their own decisions.

Why are commandos not on that tree?

He showed sentinels, assaults, logis, and scouts....but no commandos on that list....

Does that mean commandos will not make it into legion?

PS. When the flip will my proto commando ck.0 be black and red?

Please remember Legion isn't even greenlit yet. Everything at fanfest as just their plans of what they'd like to do.

I believe the earlier Dust trailers come to mind. Moving MCC's piloted by a player.

Also, the sidearms for 1.8 were toned down to fit with the rest of the weapon TTK nerf. Decloaking without pressing the button was also "Work in Progress" meant to drain 100% of your cloak field reserve also. They do listen and adjust, but they also make their own decisions.

Pfffff..... don't even have to buy drop suits now..... are PC gamers "casul scrubs"?

Yes he mentioned Pilot and Commandos are being removed and might come back later.


I think

Please remember Legion isn't even greenlit yet. Everything at fanfest as just their plans of what they'd like to do.

Reason why commandos aren't there is because they wanted to focus on their 4 main roles, and because the commando skill tree overlapped with too many of the things in the other branches.

It's because CCP created the commando to be the master of light weapons, and unless they created a bunch of NEW weapons (think commando variants with insane reload times, high ROF or something), it would throw off their idea for the role tree.

Each role tree has different unlockables, like the assault branch having most of the assault weapons, and the sentinel branch having a lot of the breach weapons. It's not limited to these suits, but you just unlock them in these paths because it benefits new players and getting to know certain playstyles and weapons instead of giving them such a huge variety to choose from in the beginning with no idea what to skill into.

Without skill multiplier reductions, just all just sounds like "it'll now take 4x SP to get anything you had in DUST." Going to 4 different trees to unlock the 4 different variants of one rifle just sounds terrible.

Why are commandos not on that tree?

He showed sentinels, assaults, logis, and scouts....but no commandos on that list....

Does that mean commandos will not make it into legion?

PS. When the flip will my proto commando ck.0 be black and red?

Hold on tight, buddy.

Their plan - which actually will be started in Dust, believe it or not - will revolve around condensing all the assets in the game into one tree because 6 are too complicated and "aren't sexy".

Now, they do talk about removing Tiers and having all the assets in the game be useful, which I can get behind to some degree.

However, CCP Z also said that having to figure out too many game systems at the start of the game is too complicated, and that he himself in fact stopped playing the game soon after he started because it was too complicated.

Thus, when you start the game, you can choose from Scout, Assault, Logistics, and Sentinel. You are then given a suit with a pre-defined loadout and must work along that "Role" until you earn better modules and can start customizing your suit.

All fittable assets are tied to the 4 Roles, and are also tied to race. If you want a Combat Rifle for your Caldari Suit, you'll need to unlock the Minmatar Assault Suit first in order to get one.

Also, suits will no longer be consumable. All suits will now be unlimited BPOs because "your suit is your character" and they believe that your suit should be a fixed cosmetic indicator of your progression. When asked about how this would affect the economy, he said that module prices would all be increased to cover the difference.

This new system also relies upon PvE as a means of putting weapons on the market rather than industry. Want a good gun for your Corp mates? You have to go salvage running on planets until you find enough of it.

That's a short overview of what CCP Z talked about. He also used the word "sexy" at least thirty times in reference to game-changing design decisions.

I can't say I necessarily agree with this idea.....but I think further clarification of this move is needed.

Thanks for the help :)

Why are commandos not on that tree?

He showed sentinels, assaults, logis, and scouts....but no commandos on that list....

Does that mean commandos will not make it into legion?

PS. When the flip will my proto commando ck.0 be black and red?

He already explained why commandos weren't presented. He wasn't done with that particular branch. Every branch is getting their own unique set of weapons and equipment. As you can imagine, there is some difficulty in deciding what commando's should get because they use the same gear as the other suit types.

What the guy above me said. Currently they are still working on the new tree, but as of fan Fest they were working under the idea of grouping the racial rifles (Scrambler rifle, Assault Rifle, Rail Rifle, and Combat Rifle) under the Assault suits of the appropriate race.

It was very much a work in progress, and not necessarily and indication of anything concrete.

Those "you will be spending less on gear" and "gear will be more expensive to compensate for BPOs" comments really confuse me.
LEGION USES A PLAYER MARKET.
CCP does NOT make the prices for the player market. The PLAYERS make them.
If you don't pay for suits, that doesn't mean ANYTHING AT ALL. ISK is a virtual currency with no tangible meaning.
It doesn't matter if a fit costs 2 ISK or 2000. Those are completely arbitrary numbers.
Players will get rewards for fullfilling contracts. Players will loot planets to get more stuff to sell.
If a player gets 2ISK per match, your fits will be in the 0.X ISK range. If a player gets 3000000000ISK per match, the range will be completely different.

I can't wrap my head around people talking about suit BPOs lowering the prices of fits. I mean... Have you been dropped on your heads as children or what? That kind of complaint is completely insane.
It's like saying that a car with a 20 liter tank has less range than a car with 50 liter tank, despite running 3 liters per kilometer, as opposed to 15 liters per kilometer on the other car.

"CCP does NOT make the prices for the player market"

Not quite true. CCP controls the abundance of an item or, how much effort it takes to aquire. In Eve this means they can set the initial price for a new manufactured item by using the current market value of the inputs and using that to set a floor. Once the market for that item is working efficiently, the price will be slightly higher than the floor. For non-manufactured items they directly control the supply which means they control the price.

The whole point people complaining about BPO suits are trying to make is that death won't have risk if their suit is free. The common items and modules will probably be fairly inexpensive, but the better modules will be more expensive and death will still hurt if you're using your higher tier gear. They're just reacting to news of a change without thinking about it first.

No - we're reacting to the thought of something existing in New Eden that is free. Dropsuits should be a resource and all resources should have a cost.

If you make all suits cost nothing, then there is no resource difference. Then all you have is T1 < T2 < T3.

If suits have cost, you can make a T1 suit worthwhile using because it may be less specialised than the T2 but it costs a lot less too.

What the proponents of proper tiericide were wanting was a system whereby all suits can be useful. This newly proposed system goes entirely against that and all suits being BPOs plays a big part.

Please provide a link or quote saying that "LEGION USES A PLAYER MARKET" because I watched all of the fanfest videos and not once did I hear anyone say this.

Please provide a link or quote saying that "LEGION USES A PLAYER MARKET" because I watched all of the fanfest videos and not once did I hear anyone say this.

No - we're reacting to the thought of something existing in New Eden that is free. Dropsuits should be a resource and all resources should have a cost.

If you make all suits cost nothing, then there is no resource difference. Then all you have is T1 < T2 < T3.

If suits have cost, you can make a T1 suit worthwhile using because it may be less specialised than the T2 but it costs a lot less too.

What the proponents of proper tiericide were wanting was a system whereby all suits can be useful. This newly proposed system goes entirely against that and all suits being BPOs plays a big part.

-snip-
I would be baffled if the process was more involved than simply using a menu.

Those "you will be spending less on gear" and "gear will be more expensive to compensate for BPOs" comments really confuse me.
LEGION USES A PLAYER MARKET.
CCP does NOT make the prices for the player market. The PLAYERS make them.
If you don't pay for suits, that doesn't mean ANYTHING AT ALL. ISK is a virtual currency with no tangible meaning.
It doesn't matter if a fit costs 2 ISK or 2000. Those are completely arbitrary numbers.
Players will get rewards for fullfilling contracts. Players will loot planets to get more stuff to sell.
If a player gets 2ISK per match, your fits will be in the 0.X ISK range. If a player gets 3000000000ISK per match, the range will be completely different.

I can't wrap my head around people talking about suit BPOs lowering the prices of fits. I mean... Have you been dropped on your heads as children or what? That kind of complaint is completely insane.
It's like saying that a car with a 20 liter tank has less range than a car with 50 liter tank, despite running 3 liters per kilometer, as opposed to 15 liters per kilometer on the other car.

No - we're reacting to the thought of something existing in New Eden that is free. Dropsuits should be a resource and all resources should have a cost.

If you make all suits cost nothing, then there is no resource difference. Then all you have is T1 < T2 < T3.

If suits have cost, you can make a T1 suit worthwhile using because it may be less specialised than the T2 but it costs a lot less too.

What the proponents of proper tiericide were wanting was a system whereby all suits can be useful. This newly proposed system goes entirely against that and all suits being BPOs plays a big part.

Keynote for sure, I think it came up in the progression presentation as well.