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Kristoff Atruin
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
2174
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Posted - 2014.05.07 13:46:00 -
[31] - Quote
What Musta said. If you go all the way to the right side of the progression tree and use one of the 32 highly specialized suits then you're inflating your meta level, which may not be what you want. The more advanced suits will also have, I imagine, more module slots. That would also make them more expensive to use and give low level suits a purpose.
The current pricing system for proto suits is just dumb. I have 35 million SP now and I rarely ever use proto suits, despite the fact that I've been able to use them for over a year. Why? Because I'm not part of the PC farming blue doughnut, which means isk actually means something to me. For me having more isk at the end of the night than I started with is kind of important, and even advanced suits barely make any isk even though I typically wind up in the top 3 for my team. When you have a game where your dropsuit is your identity, this is bad. If the PC game mode didn't exist hardly anyone would be using proto suits because nobody would have the isk for them, aside from the few beta vets who haven't burned their salvage refund isk bonus yet.
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Spike Slania
Horizons' Edge
74
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Posted - 2014.05.07 14:35:00 -
[32] - Quote
Personally I already got used to the current market and skill system in Dust. Changing over from what I know sounds like a pain and in the long run a lot more work then just opening up the market, seeing what skills I need, and buying suits without spending the extra time going to planets or negotiating with other mercs for a proto hmg and then proto plates, the sandbox is the difficulty in getting what you need for your build.
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Ryder Azorria
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
903
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Posted - 2014.05.07 14:49:00 -
[33] - Quote
Django Quik wrote:Sole Fenychs wrote:Those "you will be spending less on gear" and "gear will be more expensive to compensate for BPOs" comments really confuse me.
LEGION USES A PLAYER MARKET.
CCP does NOT make the prices for the player market. The PLAYERS make them.
If you don't pay for suits, that doesn't mean ANYTHING AT ALL. ISK is a virtual currency with no tangible meaning.
It doesn't matter if a fit costs 2 ISK or 2000. Those are completely arbitrary numbers.
Players will get rewards for fullfilling contracts. Players will loot planets to get more stuff to sell.
If a player gets 2ISK per match, your fits will be in the 0.X ISK range. If a player gets 3000000000ISK per match, the range will be completely different.
I can't wrap my head around people talking about suit BPOs lowering the prices of fits. I mean... Have you been dropped on your heads as children or what? That kind of complaint is completely insane.
It's like saying that a car with a 20 liter tank has less range than a car with 50 liter tank, despite running 3 liters per kilometer, as opposed to 15 liters per kilometer on the other car. Please provide a link or quote saying that "LEGION USES A PLAYER MARKET" because I watched all of the fanfest videos and not once did I hear anyone say this.
Keynote for sure, I think it came up in the progression presentation as well. |
Sole Fenychs
Sinq Laison Gendarmes
Gallente Federation
418
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Posted - 2014.05.07 15:11:00 -
[34] - Quote
Django Quik wrote:Please provide a link or quote saying that "LEGION USES A PLAYER MARKET" because I watched all of the fanfest videos and not once did I hear anyone say this.
That was the entire ******* point of the looting system that they explained for the sandbox.
You loot stuff and that's how items are seeded into the economy, with contract players only getting their stuff from other players who looted those items beforehand.
Watch the ******* keynote where they explain the two different playstyles (sandbox and contracts).
Django Quik wrote:No - we're reacting to the thought of something existing in New Eden that is free. Dropsuits should be a resource and all resources should have a cost.
If you make all suits cost nothing, then there is no resource difference. Then all you have is T1 < T2 < T3.
If suits have cost, you can make a T1 suit worthwhile using because it may be less specialised than the T2 but it costs a lot less too.
What the proponents of proper tiericide were wanting was a system whereby all suits can be useful. This newly proposed system goes entirely against that and all suits being BPOs plays a big part.
So you are against the skill tree?
Because the skill tree is exactly that: FREE STUFF. It gives you permanent upgrades that never go away, no matter how often you die.
We don't even know how tiers for suits work. Currently we have roles and each role is traditionally tied to a suit.
I wouldn't be surprised if each branch of the tree (non-faction basic role, factional variants, additional factional specializations) had its own suit, which scaled through the tree.
So you don't have Caldari and Minmatar basic and prototype assault suits. You have Caldari and Minmatar Assault suits that get better through skill tree investments. |
Denn Maell
PIanet Express
Canis Eliminatus Operatives
365
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Posted - 2014.05.07 15:32:00 -
[35] - Quote
Sole Fenychs wrote:-snip-
I would be baffled if the process was more involved than simply using a menu.
If its like Eve's marketplace (and I hope that is what they are shooting for) then it comes with its own set of skills, decreasing the 'tax' of putting an item on the market, determining how many jumps the sale can be 'seen' by other players, and the ability to modify the asking price on the fly. Graphically it will also have a line graph demonstrating price fluctuations over the past year for each individual item.
So, I guess heads up are in order for it will be a bit more involved than 'just using a menu'.
The most OP weapon on the Dust Battle Field:
One good logi, one rep tool, and a heavy.
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Phoenix 85
Kirkinen Risk Control
Caldari State
52
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Posted - 2014.05.07 15:47:00 -
[36] - Quote
Sole Fenychs wrote:Those "you will be spending less on gear" and "gear will be more expensive to compensate for BPOs" comments really confuse me.
LEGION USES A PLAYER MARKET.
CCP does NOT make the prices for the player market. The PLAYERS make them.
If you don't pay for suits, that doesn't mean ANYTHING AT ALL. ISK is a virtual currency with no tangible meaning.
It doesn't matter if a fit costs 2 ISK or 2000. Those are completely arbitrary numbers.
Players will get rewards for fullfilling contracts. Players will loot planets to get more stuff to sell.
If a player gets 2ISK per match, your fits will be in the 0.X ISK range. If a player gets 3000000000ISK per match, the range will be completely different.
I can't wrap my head around people talking about suit BPOs lowering the prices of fits. I mean... Have you been dropped on your heads as children or what? That kind of complaint is completely insane.
It's like saying that a car with a 20 liter tank has less range than a car with 50 liter tank, despite running 3 liters per kilometer, as opposed to 15 liters per kilometer on the other car.
Not necessarily. If we or EvE gets the ability to manufacture these items, the suits and gear would have the cost of manufacturing (run time at a factory, materials, etc) built into it.
Dust 514 cancelled, EvE players be like
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Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
5507
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Posted - 2014.05.07 16:11:00 -
[37] - Quote
Django Quik wrote:Kristoff Atruin wrote:"CCP does NOT make the prices for the player market"
Not quite true. CCP controls the abundance of an item or, how much effort it takes to aquire. In Eve this means they can set the initial price for a new manufactured item by using the current market value of the inputs and using that to set a floor. Once the market for that item is working efficiently, the price will be slightly higher than the floor. For non-manufactured items they directly control the supply which means they control the price.
The whole point people complaining about BPO suits are trying to make is that death won't have risk if their suit is free. The common items and modules will probably be fairly inexpensive, but the better modules will be more expensive and death will still hurt if you're using your higher tier gear. They're just reacting to news of a change without thinking about it first. No - we're reacting to the thought of something existing in New Eden that is free. Dropsuits should be a resource and all resources should have a cost. If you make all suits cost nothing, then there is no resource difference. Then all you have is T1 < T2 < T3. If suits have cost, you can make a T1 suit worthwhile using because it may be less specialised than the T2 but it costs a lot less too. What the proponents of proper tiericide were wanting was a system whereby all suits can be useful. This newly proposed system goes entirely against that and all suits being BPOs plays a big part.
Dropsuits won't cost, but if the cost of modules is balanced well, then the price of a higher-tier suit will still end up higher than the T1 version, because you'll be fitting more, and more expensive, modules to take advantage of it. |
Mantis Clone
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
5
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Posted - 2014.05.07 17:36:00 -
[38] - Quote
Ryder Azorria wrote:Django Quik wrote:Sole Fenychs wrote:Those "you will be spending less on gear" and "gear will be more expensive to compensate for BPOs" comments really confuse me.
LEGION USES A PLAYER MARKET.
CCP does NOT make the prices for the player market. The PLAYERS make them.
If you don't pay for suits, that doesn't mean ANYTHING AT ALL. ISK is a virtual currency with no tangible meaning.
It doesn't matter if a fit costs 2 ISK or 2000. Those are completely arbitrary numbers.
Players will get rewards for fullfilling contracts. Players will loot planets to get more stuff to sell.
If a player gets 2ISK per match, your fits will be in the 0.X ISK range. If a player gets 3000000000ISK per match, the range will be completely different.
I can't wrap my head around people talking about suit BPOs lowering the prices of fits. I mean... Have you been dropped on your heads as children or what? That kind of complaint is completely insane.
It's like saying that a car with a 20 liter tank has less range than a car with 50 liter tank, despite running 3 liters per kilometer, as opposed to 15 liters per kilometer on the other car. Please provide a link or quote saying that "LEGION USES A PLAYER MARKET" because I watched all of the fanfest videos and not once did I hear anyone say this. Keynote for sure, I think it came up in the progression presentation as well.
http://dust514.com/news/blog/2014/05/introducing-project-legion/
Second to last paragraph.
Dren and Templar equipment stats, wrong since release.
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Sete Clifton
PSU GHOST SYNDICATE
DARKSTAR ARMY
416
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Posted - 2014.05.07 22:07:00 -
[39] - Quote
They also talked about the player market in the round table that Zion recorded. It's around here somewhere, I'd link to it but I'm on my phone on the train.
Anyway, CCP Z specifically mentions that essentially 95% of the market will be player driven and the only npc sold stuff will be starter gear just so you aren't ever forced to run around with nothing. |
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